I can't handle the pain

[Fun2BMe]

My bf told me that he was going to NY on business on the 15th.

 

I just found out from an email that he is in fact going to - HAWAII. I feel so devestated and am imagining him going with another girl. He is acting like everything is just perfect between us. WTF. I can't take it.

 

I want space apart without bringing up his trip or ending things. What should I tell him? I'm thinking of booking my own trip and mentioning it casually to him. In fact a friend invited me to Austria at the end of the month. I didn't think it would be fair to travel without him but if he's going to Hawaii, then wtf I can tell him I'm going to Europe and see how he likes that.

[allina]

I don't understand this sort of situation at all, how is this okay?!??!? Saying you're going on a business trip to one location and actually going on vacation to another is a HUGE deal. Why are you not bringing this up to him?

[HopefulOne]

This isn't a good thing at all.... It's a lie!!! Why lie when you don't have anything to hide? How exactly did you find out? You said through an email ( in his email)?

[Fun2BMe]

How I found out was that he has been in a dispute that might lead to filing a legal claim. He forwarded a long string of emails between him and a couple of attorneys this morning to keep me up to date on the situation. In one of the emails he explains to the attorney that from the 15th through the 22nd he will be traveling to Hawaii and NY.

 

I feel so upset. I don't know if he did it on purpose to let me know or forgot to remove it or what to make of it. I wanted to ignore responding. He had asked me some specific questions about the situation and to get my feedback. I wanted to ignore him completely and let him figure things out but I ended up writing back a very brief one sentence casual indifferent reply about the legal issue.

[HopefulOne]

I say ask him, he forwarded you the email so it's right there. There is any harm in asking. Are you afraid of the answer or afraid that you might upset him?

[blind_otter]

Just bring it up. That's better than passive aggressive behavior. And then you can go to Europe without the heavy heart.

[Fun2BMe]

I'm afraid of the answer and for looking insecure. Knowing him, he will convince me that Hawaii is part of the business trip. He will come up with details and convincing info on the spot, I just know it. If I don't believe him it will make me look bad and yes I am also afraid that might upset him.

 

And B_O you are right that I shouldn't be passive aggressive. But why fill in the blanks for him? Doesn't he know without me having to go through the agony of spielling things out? I don't know what he was thinking. And I don't know what to do.

[blind_otter]

I'm afraid of the answer and for looking insecure. Knowing him, he will convince me that Hawaii is part of the business trip. He will come up with details and convincing info on the spot, I just know it. If I don't believe him it will make me look bad and yes I am also afraid that might upset him.

 

And B_O you are right that I shouldn't be passive aggressive. But why fill in the blanks for him? Doesn't he know without me having to go through the agony of spielling things out? I don't know what he was thinking. And I don't know what to do.

 

Don't be afraid to look bad. The thing about standing up for yourself is that you really do have to be totally prepared to walk away from the relationship if your needs aren't being met. And your needs very definately aren't being met. And you seem so confused about what rights you are allowed to have in the relationship. This attitude is a classic reaction to emotional abuse. The guy confuses, denies, makes excuses....when all you want is a straightforward, direct interaction. Good relationships are always based on honest, open communication. You should not even HAVE to ferret all this information out!

 

And I would think of it like an adolescent boy trying to hide an extracurricular activity from his parents. And if he does come up with an excuse I would tell him that it doesn't fly. If it were no big thing, he would have mentioned it.

[Fun2BMe]

Don't be afraid to look bad. The thing about standing up for yourself is that you really do have to be totally prepared to walk away from the relationship if your needs aren't being met. And your needs very definately aren't being met. And you seem so confused about what rights you are allowed to have in the relationship. This attitude is a classic reaction to emotional abuse. The guy confuses, denies, makes excuses....when all you want is a straightforward, direct interaction. Good relationships are always based on honest, open communication. You should not even HAVE to ferret all this information out!

 

And I would think of it like an adolescent boy trying to hide an extracurricular activity from his parents. And if he does come up with an excuse I would tell him that it doesn't fly. If it were no big thing, he would have mentioned it.

 

 

I really hate fighting and arguing. I don't want to act like his mother by interrogating him either. I am completely pissed off and hurt. I am going to start making excuses not to see him until I come to the final conclusion to end things. This is unacceptable and I am not going to put up with it. It is amazing how sweet and loving he has been, the bastard.

 

First I force myself to accept his stupid porn. And now this. I don't know what I will do in all honesty.

[norajane]

Honestly, sweets? I think you need to step back and stay out of relationships for a while. You blew off a nice guy who was asking you out and paying attention to you to take back your ex. This ex is the guy who is all into the web cam stripper, right? Then you cheated with a friend of yours, and thought you might be pregnant because the condom broke. Now, you're having trouble asking him why he told you about a business trip to NY, when he's also going to Hawaii.

 

Maybe you need some space to get your head together and realize your own worth without a man in your life. That's important, because if you feel whole and strong on your own, you'd be in a much better place to stand up for yourself and say no to the guys who behave badly, and yes to the guys who won't.

[Walk]

Norajane is right. You do need to take a step back, maybe take a long break from the situation. Figure things out in your head and heart.

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why its a surprise he didn't tell you about going to Hawii. I'm not casting judgement here... I cheated on an ex. But one day I found out he'd fooled around with another woman while I was on a trip. There wasn't even a tiny part of me that felt I had a right to get upset about it. My lie wasn't right.. his lie wasn't right. But to get mad because the person you cheated on lied to you? Don't think that's right. Sorry to say, but I think at that point the relationship has degraded to the "No saving" zone. Just let it go.......

 

Is there a possibility his business plans changed and he forgot to say something. Maybe he forgot because of all these legal issues he's facing? Has he talked about the trip lately? Has he made mention that he's going to NY specifically in the past few days? This could be logically explained as an oversight on his part.

 

Personally, if I were being sent to hawii on a business trip, I'd be excited. Telling people, gloating... mentioning it. But I don't get out much, so maybe this is mundane to him. NY-Hawii, same difference?

 

That's my convoluted, doesn't make sense, advice on the matter. haha

[Fun2BMe]

Norajane is right. You do need to take a step back, maybe take a long break from the situation. Figure things out in your head and heart.

That's what I want to do, take a break but I don't know what excuse to use or what to say. I think he is upset that I responded so briefly to his long email and have not contacted him since. Either that or he might know I am upset having seen the info about Hawaii. Or worse case he is too consumed about his trip and contacting whatever girl it is he is taking to have the time to be concerned about me. I have just had it. I don't know why I always have the worse luck in every single relationship.

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why its a surprise he didn't tell you about going to Hawii.

Because everything was going well and I would have had no idea he was planning on going there so yes, it is a huge blow and a big surprise that he is. Why is that so hard to understand? If he had nothing to hide, I'd think he would've told me, instead of only referring to NY about his trip, which yes he has been bringing up quite a bit lately but again, only NY never HI.

 

 

I'm not casting judgement here... I cheated on an ex. But one day I found out he'd fooled around with another woman while I was on a trip. There wasn't even a tiny part of me that felt I had a right to get upset about it.

That is highly unusual, to feel you have no right to get upset at your bf for cheating! I haven't heard of that one before. In that case every time a SO cheats, have a cheat under your belt beforehand to avoid getting upset?

 

 

 

Is there a possibility his business plans changed and he forgot to say something. Maybe he forgot because of all these legal issues he's facing? Has he talked about the trip lately? Has he made mention that he's going to NY specifically in the past few days? This could be logically explained as an oversight on his part.

 

Personally, if I were being sent to hawii on a business trip, I'd be excited. Telling people, gloating... mentioning it. But I don't get out much, so maybe this is mundane to him. NY-Hawii, same difference?

He's brought up the trip many times recently and has said that he'll call me from NY. Not once has he mentioned Hawaii therefore I can't pretend it was an oversight.

 

He had given the party he was going to sue til 4pm to get back to him and it is now past 5 and he has not even contacted me back so I think he knows I must be upset. He was supposed to call me on his way to a lecture he is giving and I now doubt he will. I can already sense the tension between us. I can't believe things are suddenly going downhill so fast, after I put up with so much, after he had been acting like cloud 9 around me. How can I trust anyone ever again.

[norajane]

Personally, if I were being sent to hawii on a business trip, I'd be excited. Telling people, gloating... mentioning it. But I don't get out much, so maybe this is mundane to him. NY-Hawii, same difference?

 

I don't want to get the thread off track, but as someone who traveled constantly for work up until I quit a month ago: NY-Hawaii = same difference. You arrive at some bizarre hour freaked out on what time zone you are in vs. what time zone your head and body are in. You then get into a car/taxi to go to yet another hotel and to another empty hotel room...they all pretty much blur into one after a while. Hungry or not, you order room service because you're not entirely sure when you'll eat next, or whether it will be a four course meal or vending machine candy.

 

Then, you battle jet lag to finish some work in preparation for your meeting or conference. Then you spend all day "on" - trying to sell or buy or learn. Then you might have to work late late late, or go out to dinner with clients. Yeah, like you really need to eat with the people you didn't want to spend your whole day with anyway, and listen to their boring stories and whatnot. Then you go back to your hotel and do the same thing the next day, or you pack for your flight out and to your next time zone challenge.

 

So the meeting might be in a Hawaii skyscraper or a NY one. The only difference is the quality of the air outside...which you don't really get to breathe much anyway as you rarely get outside.

[Fun2BMe]

I don't want to get the thread off track, but as someone who traveled constantly for work up until I quit a month ago: NY-Hawaii = same difference. You arrive at some bizarre hour freaked out on what time zone you are in vs. what time zone your head and body are in. You then get into a car/taxi to go to yet another hotel and to another empty hotel room...they all pretty much blur into one after a while. Hungry or not, you order room service because you're not entirely sure when you'll eat next, or whether it will be a four course meal or vending machine candy.

 

Then, you battle jet lag to finish some work in preparation for your meeting or conference. Then you spend all day "on" - trying to sell or buy or learn. Then you might have to work late late late, or go out to dinner with clients. Yeah, like you really need to eat with the people you didn't want to spend your whole day with anyway, and listen to their boring stories and whatnot. Then you go back to your hotel and do the same thing the next day, or you pack for your flight out and to your next time zone challenge.

 

So the meeting might be in a Hawaii skyscraper or a NY one. The only difference is the quality of the air outside...which you don't really get to breathe much anyway as you rarely get outside.

No, I don't think Hawaii is for business. His business clients are in New York. I swear I was wondering if even going to NY on business was a lie for some reason and now I wonder if he really is even going to go to NY. I know he was going to go to NY in early Sept. anyways for his brother's birthday who lives there. Now I think he is just going to Hawaii on vacation. It doesn't make much sense when you look at the map to travel all the way to Hawaii then backtrack and go all the way to NY then back home.

 

I hate men and all relationships and I never want to go out again. I hate him so bad right now.

[norajane]

I hate men and all relationships and I never want to go out again. I hate him so bad right now.

 

All men aren't horrible. If you think you are with one who is, why stay with him? You're choosing to stay; you don't have to. You can choose to be on your own, or you can choose the men who treat you well.

 

It is your choice. You are not powerless.

 

If I'm recalling correctly, there was a nice guy who was approaching you before this ex contacted you for a second chance. Consider why you chose the ex instead of the guy who was treating you nicely.

[CrushedOrgans]

even if hawaii was a "nothing worth mentioning" business trip to him, it's stupid to not tell someone where you'll be. what about safety? security? there's no reason not to mention it, no matter how mundane it is.

 

if someone eats at mcdonald's, should they say they ate at burger king, just because it's all food, and you eat it the same way, so it doesn't really matter where they really were? to me, that's just dumb. some things, there's no reason to leave out or lie about... unless there is a reason for it.

 

there was no reason to leave this out. he's going to be flying. it's nice to know someone's plane landed safely, ya know? in the place where they really are.

 

Free2Be, i think you should not say anything. have him call you when he lands, and ask him to send a picture of something verrrrry new york. if you see sand and palm trees, you know there's trouble.

 

okay, so i am half-kidding, but i do think there's a reason he kept it from you, and whatever reason that is, it's not fair.

 

 

oh...but he also forwarded you the email, so shouldn't he expect that you'd seen the destinations? maybe he's trying to surprise you...

[Fun2BMe]

All men aren't horrible. If you think you are with one who is, why stay with him? You're choosing to stay; you don't have to. You can choose to be on your own, or you can choose the men who treat you well.

 

It is your choice. You are not powerless.

 

If I'm recalling correctly, there was a nice guy who was approaching you before this ex contacted you for a second chance. Consider why you chose the ex instead of the guy who was treating you nicely.

 

I know I am making general statements. I'm just so upset and hurt and disappointed right now. By the way he just called my house and I turned off the answering machine. He let it ring over 10 times. Then he called my cell phone and I made it go straight to VM and do not want to listen to his stupid message, whatever BS he has to tell me.

 

I chose to go back to him because like I had explained in another thread, at the time I broke it off with him 2 years ago, I was still in love with him but I had to do it because my needs were not getting met. He was always so busy with work and most of our activities and conversations revolved around things relating to his work. I wanted to send him a message that I was being taken for granted and he would lose me which is what happened. So when he contacted me again and again, I finallly agreed to give things a second chance and things were going perfect, the way I had always dreamed they would but had never been before. He was showering me with attention, taking me out all the time, introducing me to every friend he had never introduced me to before. I had met some, but now it was like he was showing me off and so proud and happy to be back with me.

 

Then the whole porn webcam came about and I was determined to be strong and not let that get to me. But now this happens and I am totally upset. Yes the other guy was nice and all. But my bf is no monster either and I already had a history and loving feelings towards him. And now all this Hawaii crap. I wish I didn't put myself in a position to get hurt like this, but then again things could have gone in a different direction and continued to be great. I think I am cursed because my whole life is one bad relationship after another.

[Fun2BMe]

even if hawaii was a "nothing worth mentioning" business trip to him, it's stupid to not tell someone where you'll be. what about safety? security? there's no reason not to mention it, no matter how mundane it is.

 

if someone eats at mcdonald's, should they say they ate at burger king, just because it's all food, and you eat it the same way, so it doesn't really matter where they really were? to me, that's just dumb. some things, there's no reason to leave out or lie about... unless there is a reason for it.

 

there was no reason to leave this out. he's going to be flying. it's nice to know someone's plane landed safely, ya know? in the place where they really are.

 

Free2Be, i think you should not say anything. have him call you when he lands, and ask him to send a picture of something verrrrry new york. if you see sand and palm trees, you know there's trouble.

 

okay, so i am half-kidding, but i do think there's a reason he kept it from you, and whatever reason that is, it's not fair.

 

 

oh...but he also forwarded you the email, so shouldn't he expect that you'd seen the destinations? maybe he's trying to surprise you...

 

My thooughts exactly. If there was nothing to hide, why did he never mention it to me. Why was it only NY every time. Why was it always "I'll call you from NY". Anyways, I can only put myself in so many positions. I am not about to tell him to send me pictures as evidence. So what if he sends me an older picture from NY where he goes often. That will mean nothing to me. I am fed up and as soon as I calm down, I will get myself to listen to his voice message on my cell phone. I just can't bear to do it at the moment. I am curious what tone his voice will be in and what he has to say but I am not prepared.

[Walk]

That is highly unusual, to feel you have no right to get upset at your bf for cheating! I haven't heard of that one before. In that case every time a SO cheats, have a cheat under your belt beforehand to avoid getting upset?

I re-read my post, and it was confusing. What I was trying to say is, I cheated on the guy, and found out a month later that he fooled around on me with some girl. I felt it rather hypocritically to get upset with him about lying and fooling around on me, when I had cheated on him a month earlier. That'd be like me kicking you in the shin, you kick me back and I get pissed cause you kicked me.

 

So I'm not quite understanding how you cheated and lied to your bf, and are now upset he's lying to you. As though he caused all the problems. Granted, I think he caused the MAJORITY of the problems.

 

Honestly.. think about what Norajane is saying. Why do you choose this specific type of man to have in your life? He's not the first, and he won't be the last if you dont' figure this one out.

 

p.s. Why don't you just call him and tell him it's over now? End the relationship so you don't leave yourself in limbo.

[Fun2BMe]

Honestly.. think about what Norajane is saying. Why do you choose this specific type of man to have in your life? He's not the first, and he won't be the last if you dont' figure this one out.

When you say this specific type of man, if I hadn't made it clear, he is not a bad person. He is a responsible and caring professional who recently I found out watches porn which I guess most guys do but now this Hawaii business. I do pick well for the most part, but then they change on me or I find out more than I knew about them and things get bad.

 

 

p.s. Why don't you just call him and tell him it's over now? End the relationship so you don't leave yourself in limbo.

I just listened to his voicemail and it was what I feared. Even though he discussed his legal case with an update for me, his voice was very shaky and sounded as guilty as I have ever heard it. I can't just end the relationship because I am at a stage of not knowing what to do and don't want to regret anything. I want to hurt him badly, maybe act indifferent, not return his calls then casually tell him I am going to Europe. I will not bring up his stupid Hawaii and act like I don't care. I don't know.

[Walk]

Fun,

 

I'm not trying to pick on you, or make you feel bad, or attacked. I notice though that you tend to see yourself as the victim in these relationships. You were lied to, cheated on, your good will taken advantage of. And yes, it's true those things happened. But I think it would be beneficial for you to understand that you had a choice from the very beginning, adn if you can accept that you made bad decisions on your own... then maybe you can start to figure out how to make the right choices in the future.

 

It's not about laying blame, or finding fault, but about being open to learning how to prevent these kinds of problems in the future. If you can identify where you went wrong, then you can change how you act in the future. And since the only person you have control over is yourself, then you are the only person you can change. So blaming him won't help change your propensity to fall for men who use and abuse women.

[Fun2BMe]

Fun,

 

I'm not trying to pick on you, or make you feel bad, or attacked. I notice though that you tend to see yourself as the victim in these relationships. You were lied to, cheated on, your good will taken advantage of. And yes, it's true those things happened. But I think it would be beneficial for you to understand that you had a choice from the very beginning, adn if you can accept that you made bad decisions on your own... then maybe you can start to figure out how to make the right choices in the future.

 

It's not about laying blame, or finding fault, but about being open to learning how to prevent these kinds of problems in the future. If you can identify where you went wrong, then you can change how you act in the future. And since the only person you have control over is yourself, then you are the only person you can change. So blaming him won't help change your propensity to fall for men who use and abuse women.

 

Maybe if I can see where I went wrong I can change, but I don't see my fault in anything. I am the one who trusts men then they cheat, lie and hurt me like hell. I go into a relationship trusting the person I am with, believing that they are faithful and honest only to be deceived.

 

As far as the 'incident' I had with the other guy. That was purely accidental, unplanned and happened while drunk so that really can't count the same way as pre-planning a trip to Hawaii, knowing what will take place there and I have to assume a relationship must be going on with that person before the trip as well. Yes that was not right that the accidental sex happened, but I had no control over that as I was drunk.

 

It was not preplanned and I have no feelings for that person. In fact it was the bf's fault it happened because I went to see that guy to feel consoled for feeling hurt by my bf so yes I blame him for all that too, for the morning after pill I had to take and all the distress he has been placing my life under ever since he returned into it. I don't know why bad things have to happen to good people.

[norajane]

When you say this specific type of man, if I hadn't made it clear, he is not a bad person. He is a responsible and caring professional who recently I found out watches porn which I guess most guys do but now this Hawaii business. I do pick well for the most part, but then they change on me or I find out more than I knew about them and things get bad.

 

I just listened to his voicemail and it was what I feared. Even though he discussed his legal case with an update for me, his voice was very shaky and sounded as guilty as I have ever heard it. I can't just end the relationship because I am at a stage of not knowing what to do and don't want to regret anything. I want to hurt him badly, maybe act indifferent, not return his calls then casually tell him I am going to Europe. I will not bring up his stupid Hawaii and act like I don't care. I don't know.

 

Isn't it the teensiest bit possible he was reacting to the situation with the legal case and was upset about it?

 

Honestly, I can't imagine why he'd think he has anything to feel guilty about. Because he wrote Hawaii in an email? If he even realizes it was in there, when did he write the mail? Maybe those plans changed since and he's no longer even going to Hawaii.

 

By refusing to talk with him, you're choosing to drag out your pain and anxiety. You don't really know for sure that he's even going to Hawaii.

 

Next question, why don't you feel the teeniest bit shaky and guilty for cheating on him? He watched porn, so you cheated.

 

You are making choices which make things worse for yourself. I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh; I don't intend it to. I think it would really help if you took a look at why you allow all this anxiety into your life.

[Walk]

Hey... I'm signing off. Too tired to give good thoughts on this, and you do deserve some good advice right now.

 

Just remember.. I (and many others on LS) think you are a wonderful person with a big heart. I hate to see you go through such pain over and over again. And I guess, for lack of anything more concrete to give you, try to get some sleep, and don't forget to eat.

[Walk]

Maybe if I can see where I went wrong I can change, but I don't see my fault in anything. I am the one who trusts men then they cheat, lie and hurt me like hell. I go into a relationship trusting the person I am with, believing that they are faithful and honest only to be deceived.

 

As far as the 'incident' I had with the other guy. That was purely accidental, unplanned and happened while drunk so that really can't count the same way as pre-planning a trip to Hawaii, knowing what will take place there and I have to assume a relationship must be going on with that person before the trip as well. Yes that was not right that the accidental sex happened, but I had no control over that as I was drunk.

 

It was not preplanned and I have no feelings for that person. In fact it was the bf's fault it happened because I went to see that guy to feel consoled for feeling hurt by my bf so yes I blame him for all that too, for the morning after pill I had to take and all the distress he has been placing my life under ever since he returned into it. I don't know why bad things have to happen to good people.

 

 

Uh oh.