Forgiveness?

[dgiirl]

Most of you know my story. The past few weeks have been really hectic and life changing, but i still realize that I havent moved on and I'm still angry over a lot of things. I really really want to move on. I know the ideal thing for me to do is find a way to forgive, and although I dont object to forgiving him, I just cant seem to know how. I cannot make any sense of the situation to be able to forgive him. He put me through emotional hell. Often times, he would claim I was in the wrong. So I'm never quite sure where the fault was, on him or on me. Putting it on him is easier, but then I'm doomed to repeat my mistakes. Putting it on me, makes me confused, guilty, depressed, totally unsure of what I'm doing and always second guessing myself (just like i was in my marriage). The best I'm able to do right now is be indifferent and try to refocus my thoughts, but I dont know how to forgive him.

 

Have any of you truely moved on? How? Did it take forgiveness? How long did it take? What were the steps you took in order to let go and move on?

[superconductor]

Searching for fault and a person or situation to place the blame is like trying to harvest peaches in January: it's fruitless.

 

Forgiveness is one of those things that seems, at first glance, to be about the other party, but actually it's all about yourself. And forgiving does not mean forgetting; it just means that the indiscretion (or whatever happened) no longer holds power over you. It's about letting go of the issues of the past and giving yourself permission to move on without living while looking in the rear-view mirror.

 

The steps are as varied as the individual, but it's important to remember that forgiveness is a process, not a result. You won't magically wake up one morning and all the bad feelings are gone. You may have to make an effort to forgive every day, and some days will be better than others.

[DieselPWR]

No, I haven't moved on completely, mainly due to the fact that it is so fresh, and the wound is still gaping wide open.

But that doesn't mean you can't forgive. In my opnion, there is a HUGE difference between forgiving, and forgetting. Forgiveness is one of those things that you can do while still having issues. Take my situation, I had a lot of fault in it, but she has been really nasty lately via e-mail, and she has not taken any responsibility for it. What I had to do was admit to myself that I did, in fact have responsibility in the situation. Once I did that, I looked at what she had done to me. Even though it hurt like hell, there is nothing that I can do to change how she feels. So, knowing that she is who she is, I forgave her. It took me alot of pastoral counsling, and reading my bible. I don't know if your spiritual or religious, but that is what did it for me. If I can be forgiven by God, who am I not to forgive someone else, despite what has been done to me. She still hasn't forgiven me, even though I have asked for such. But I have done my part, I have asked for forgiveness and can't change what she does. Forgetting is another story all together, if he has truly wronged you, you will not forget that anytime soon. But, just because you have not forgotten the mean things that he has done, or who he is, doesn't mean that you can't forgive him. He's done what he's done, he nor you can change that. You don't have to like him, but you can forgive him. I can't really explain it any better than that.

Anger, and resentment are parts of everyone's lives. How you channel that anger is up to you. But, the more you hold it inside, the more it festers and gets more rotten. Talking about it helps alot, that's why I have posted so much lately.

But it breaks down to this for me, if you haven't forgiven him, then you will have a very hard time letting go. Since I have admitted to myself that I can forgive her, I have been finding it much easier to let go. A month ago, I hadn't even accepted the situation. I thought she was playing games, and messing with my head. Once I sat down and accepted the situation as real, I had to forgive her in order to begin to let go. She has been the same all along, nasty and trying to anger me. But I have forgiven her, and accepted that she has a skewed point of view, so therefore it has begun to hurt less.

Sorry if this doesn't help, I am just trying to put my thoughts into words, which isn't always an easy thing.

Hope this helps a little.

[Mz. Pixie]

As a Christian, I have to forgive or I believe that my Lord won't forgive me.

 

Forgiveness is not for him, it's for you. By not forgiving him this is hurting you way more than it does him. He doesn't have a care in the world and you're left holding on to all this resentment and pain.

 

He may never ask- and you can still be deeply hurt and still forgive. It doesn't mean you have to be friends with that person or let them walk on you or anything like that. You just choose to give them forgiveness.

 

Forgiving my abusive mother and my stepfather was perhaps the hardest things I'll ever do. But I did it. Do I still dislike what they did and how they treated me?? YUP. Will I ever forget the abuse?? NOPE.

 

It's a wierd thing forgiveness. I think you should think about it. You'll know when the right time is to give up the burden.

[superconductor]

You'll know when the right time is to give up the burden.

With respect to Mz. Pixie, who elucidated much clearer than I could about the wisdom of forgiveness, you won't "just know" when the right time is. That's because there is no "right time."

 

The universe owes you no explanations, it will give you no hints, it won't guide you by "gut feelings" or "just knowing things."

 

You just have to do it.

 

There's a time to feel, a time to think, and a time to do.

 

You've done the feeling. You've done the thinking. There's only one step left.

[dgiirl]

Thanks guys... you've given me more food for thought. I know WHY to forgive, and that's why I want too. I'm just not sure how about doing it. I was talking to a friend yesterday and this topic came up. She said that I just have to believe that he did everything the best way he knew how to do at the time. But I dont believe that. He hurt me tremendously, and intentionally. And I really do not know why. I mean, I know why our marriage fell apart. But I dont know why he was so mean and cruel when he left. I dont know why he waited so long. I dont know why he did the things he did. I feel I need to make sense of the situation in order to find a way to forgive him. But I cannot make any sense of what happened, thus how can I forgive him?

[DieselPWR]

Those things you may never know. Why someone does something is up to them, and if they chose to let you in on something, that is completely up to them. Why people do some things, even they don't even know themselves. It could be them lashing out, them trying in some strange way to get compassion. All those variable will drive you crazy if you let em.

In my expierence thus far, very little that I have seen is making sense. But things happen the way they do, and we may never know why completely. But just as I was not ready to admit I had a drinking problem, he may not be ready to admit why he did those things. But worry about you, and your healing, and let him do his own thing. And , in my humble opinion, forgiveness is part of that healing, when ever you are ready to do that.

God bless you and the turmoil you are feeling,

Me

[Gunny376]

But I dont know why he was so mean and cruel when he left. I dont know why he waited so long. I dont know why he did the things he did. I feel I need to make sense of the situation in order to find a way to forgive him. But I cannot make any sense of what happened, thus how can I forgive him?

 

Other thand just divorce ~ there are things that occur in every person's life ~ that if you allow it to will paralysis you ~ mentally, emotionally, spiritually. You sit around on the back forty with a fifth poking a stick at a fire trying to make sense of it all? Looking for the answers to the questions, the solution to the problems,...........trying to find the answer to why?

 

And, there is none ~ there's no rhymn nor reason to "it" (whatever "it" may be) ~ its nothing more than just a "thing" and it doesn't mean "nuthin'", it just plain old doesn't mean 'nuthin'.

 

So you take it, and you put it in a little locked box in the back of your mind, and then you leave it tha' **** alone. You don't go there digging up bones, of what's already dead and gone.

 

At first its like dragging a dead horse around everywhere you go ~ and people keep pointing at you and telling you ~ "You know you're dragging a dead horse around with you everywhere you go, don't you!"

 

Then one day, you just let it go ~ because you're tired of dragging a dead horse around with everywhere you go, and you want to be happy again. And, that's the key ~ most people as the make their mind up to be. That your job and no one's else's. You'll be happy the day you let go and quit dragging around dead hourses. You'll be happy the day you decide "Enough of the sh*t!" and you decicde to be and make yourself happy ~ and to never allow another person to steal that happiness and your joy from you!

 

Being 49, and I guess having gone through my MLC ~ or at least coming to the realization that I've probally more years behind me than I've got ahead of me has made me realize that I'm the sole person responsible for my happiness and no one else.

 

I've been miserable in my life ~ BTDT ~ got it down pat. Got it down to perfection. Its like I use to tell my Marines ~ "You don't have to train to be miserable!"

 

Life is for living. Either get busy living ~ or get busy dying. Just that simple. Its time to catch the bus to Mexico and get busy living you life to its fullest, and to its top!

 

 

Somone you lives to be 70 years old ~ only has 25,550 days! That's how short life truly is ~ and for some its even shorter! Its too short to live it being miserable?

[superconductor]

I feel I need to make sense of the situation in order to find a way to forgive him. But I cannot make any sense of what happened, thus how can I forgive him?

You're confusing a couple of things, dgiirl.

 

First, what he did may have made sense to him, even though it didn't - and doesn't - make any sense to you.

 

But the larger question is whether or not there actually is a reason for what he did.

 

Nobody said that people are rational creatures, especially when they're living under the pretext of being "in love."

 

Relationships make people do odd things, and during the ending stages of a relationship those odd things can get more and more strange.

 

Again, they don't make sense to you because they're not meant to make sense to you. They may have made sense to him at the time, but undoubtedly now he sees that his actions were irrational.

 

So don't fall into the trap of trying to make sense of chaos. By it's very nature, it cannot be made sense of because there is no sense to make.

 

The second thing is that making sense of some action - or inaction - makes it easier to forgive.

 

I humbly beg to differ.

 

Forgiveness has precious little to do with the other party or their action(s), and everything to do with how you move forward in your life without the leaden weight of bitterness holding you back. Like a ship with it's anchor sucked into the mud of a shallow bay, even at full sail the ship will have a hard time moving.

 

So weigh the anchor, unfurl the canvas, tighten the sheets and set sail.

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks guys... you've given me more food for thought. I know WHY to forgive, and that's why I want too. I'm just not sure how about doing it. I was talking to a friend yesterday and this topic came up. She said that I just have to believe that he did everything the best way he knew how to do at the time. But I dont believe that. He hurt me tremendously, and intentionally. And I really do not know why. I mean, I know why our marriage fell apart. But I dont know why he was so mean and cruel when he left. I dont know why he waited so long. I dont know why he did the things he did. I feel I need to make sense of the situation in order to find a way to forgive him. But I cannot make any sense of what happened, thus how can I forgive him?

 

How 'bout this.... Some people just can't help being f*cked up and stupid. If he's an a*hole, then all he can ever be is an a*hole. He can't help it, ergo... it's not his fault.

 

That's facetious. But still, people can only be who they are. You don't hate a rattlesnake for being a rattlesnake.

 

I think maybe the problem might be that you still give this guy too much credit. He's not ALL THAT. Because if he was, he wouldn't have treated a great girl like you the way he did.

[Mz. Pixie]

She said that I just have to believe that he did everything the best way he knew how to do at the time. But I dont believe that. He hurt me tremendously, and intentionally. And I really do not know why. I mean, I know why our marriage fell apart. But I dont know why he was so mean and cruel when he left. I dont know why he waited so long. I dont know why he did the things he did. I feel I need to make sense of the situation in order to find a way to forgive him. But I cannot make any sense of what happened, thus how can I forgive him?

 

 

See, that's the thing D. I couldn't make sense of how my mother would allow her husband to try to have sex with me and not believe me either. The beauty of forgiveness is not that they DESERVE to be forgiven. Because they usually don't. It's not that you can understand what or why they did it- because you may never.

 

It's a gift that you give yourself. Your friend saying that you had to believe that he did things the best way he knew how has absolutely nothing to do with it. He hurt you and that's the bottom line.

 

He didn't know how to do what he did, but you don't have to feel that he acted the only way that he could to forgive him. Am I making sense??

 

He made a mistake yeah, that he may never own up to. But that's okay- because that's HIS bed to sleep in, not yours. But your forgiving him is a better way of you beginning to move on, trust me.

[dgiirl]

Thanks MzP. You've given me a lot of things to think about. I definitely need to work on it, but atleast your logic makes a lot more sense than trying to believe he did the best he could.

 

 

LJ, lol i started with that rational, but unfortunately, i keep having a tug of war between him being an as*hat and worrying i'm placing too much blame on him.

[Gunny376]

I'm going to get "Gunny" on you, but its for your own good!

 

This isn't anything but a "Pity-party"

 

With that said, you have my persmission to "bitch slap" me back into reality when I fall into one of mine!

 

YOU're good people! You're a good woman! You WERE a good wife!

[Gunny376]

How 'bout this.... Some people just can't help being f*cked up and stupid. If he's an a*hole, then all he can ever be is an a*hole. He can't help it, ergo... it's not his fault.

 

And here all this time, I just thought it was just me being me!

 

Me? I know I'm an a**hole ~ trouble is that most a**holes don't know they're a**holes!

 

But, I'm a really a**hole! I'm a really a**hole!

[Mz. Pixie]

And here all this time, I just thought it was just me being me!

 

Me? I know I'm an a**hole ~ trouble is that most a**holes don't know they're a**holes!

 

But, I'm a really a**hole! I'm a really a**hole!

 

Damn Guns- I love ya- you're my kind of man!

 

D- Gunny is right. This isn't about you it's about him.

 

Start believing that you are WORTH MORE. You are!!!

[dgiirl]

Thanks guys I appreciate the kind words I know I'm having a damn pity party... sadly, i've been doing that for a while now. That's why I'm ready to get off this rollercoaster. I was really stuck on this forgiveness thing, but discusing this with you guys kinda helped... atleast for today It's given me a new perspective.

[Gunny376]

A lot of people ~ especially men ~ don't appreciate what they had until they've lost it and its long gone.

 

Having been single and back out here in the single world for a number of years now, I'm here to tell you ~ its not always what it cracked up to be. Us guys have to do most all of the initating, and asking out, ~ in short a lot of the initial work in getting something started with someone.

 

I don't so much miss my ex-wife as I do my last LTR GF. I describe her and our relationship as almost the right one, at the wrong time, and wrong place in my life. Other than that, there weren't any problems.

 

After her, I made the conscious decision to over-come my "fear" (for lack of a better word) of living and being a lone. Iniitally, I set the goal at a year, but its turned into longer than that (I won't say how long ~ but its been a long time!) Now? I've grown comfortable with it, and even revel in being able to come and go as I wish, how I wish, as I damn well wish without haviing to answer to anyone. There's a breakeven point, to where you become jealous and closely guard your "me" time.

 

The "why" and the "forgiveness" thing are just that ~ "just a thing" Its what it is. You can sit around the rest of your life poking a stick at it, and never fully accept it, and comprehend it! And, I mean that literally.

 

Queen Victoria sat around for thirty years mourning the lost of her husaband Prince Albert. Thirty damn years she sat around poking at "why?" Talk about someone serriously in need of being bit*ch slapped! I mean come on!

[Trimmer]

I'm going to get "Gunny" on you, but its for your own good!

Whew... I was ready for him to tell you to "man up" there!!!

 

D- Gunny is right. This isn't about you it's about him.

It is about him, to the degree that what he did is about him, and not about you.

 

On the other hand, the forgiveness you seek is about you, and not really so much about him. It's not about figuring him out, reconciling his actions with reality, or understanding what motivated him.

 

When we split, we divide up our property - our "stuff" - because it doesn't make sense to keep it all mixed. We have a firm tradition of deciding who takes each piece of property forward into the future, and we assign each item solely to one party or the other, and we draw a pretty bright dividing line down the middle.

 

I think we should also see the importance of not mixing our emotional property moving forward; we need to be able to draw a similar emotional dividing line between the things that you will take forward and the things that he will take forward. His reasons, his rationale, his baggage, and his fate and responsibility for it, are all his property now, and yours are your property.

 

Forgiveness is partly about being able to draw that emotional dividing line; about saying: we will untangle and divide our emotional connections just as we divide our property. It's about releasing yourself from responsibility for the course of his life, now and in the future, and - a hard part - truly releasing him from responsibility to you in the course of your life moving forward. And I agree, this process of forgiveness is all about you, and all inside you. It's not deciding whether or how much he's an @sshat vs. a human being; it's letting him go, giving him sole responsibility for himself, releasing him to his future, and finding peace for yourself, in spite of what the answer might be.

 

I validated a lot of my sense of myself through my wife, and by my role as husband, so it really took away something significant when she rejected me. It took a while to build back that sense of myself again. At first, it seemed desirable to figure out some logical way to explain her behavior, so I could rebuild my sense of myself as a "good husband", or at least logically explain my sense that I had failed. But in the end, I realized my real goal was not to vindicate my role as husband, but to rediscover my role as "self." And to do that meant releasing her - forgiving her. Moving on.

[Gunny376]

Very will put Trimmer! Very articulate! Outstanding post!

[Gunny376]

:laugh: I forgot to tell you something earlier!

 

Its time to "man-up" there girl! LOL! :laugh:

[Trimmer]

:laugh: I forgot to tell you something earlier!

 

Its time to "man-up" there girl! LOL! :laugh:

Ahhh... There it is!!