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And what's even more rotten........


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Sorry, Part 2 (I really just need to vent)....


What's even more rotten is the fact that this all had to 'come down' when I won't barely see him all weekend, cuz he'll be busy spending it with his sons (he doesn't get them at Christmas so he'll be doing lots with them this weekend)....so what, I'm just supposed to sit on pins and needles, sick to my stomach, all weekend? We can't even *discuss* any of this for the next few days because that will be hard with his kids there.


It's almost like having an ugly fight with someone, then having to go away on a trip somewhere and there's no closure...and the one person is left feeling horrible as to how things were left, with not opportunity to really resolve things.


The brain/logical/rational side of me says I should just say 'to hell with this'.....that I deserve someone who's not going to run away at the first disagreement...and insult me with a sh*tload of lame excuses as to why they have to leave in the middle of the night to go home.


I kept saying to him, "okay...so you're worried about your cats, you're worried that you're house could burn down while you're here, you have to get up early in the morning and the restaurant you're meeting your client at is closer to your house......but then why had you PLANNED on staying over UNTIL we had our little talk?"


Then as he was sitting here, I really just wanted him to leave..and I told him, "look, you do what you gotta do..if you feel the need to leave, then just go".....but he wouldn't.....cuz I think he felt guilty......then he kept saying "I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't......If I stay, you'll just think I'm staying out of guilt, and if I leave you'll think things are over and you'll never see me again."


Then he said (oh, maybe this was supposed to console me) that maybe he'll have to worry now that I'll never want to see him again. Well geezus, take off on me after our first disagreement, in the middle of the night (practically), give me a boatload of excuses as to why you need to go...and yeah, maybe I will take a good hard look at things.


I can't be with someone who's always going to make me feel like they're 'this close' to leaving. To me that's like emotional abuse. One of my exes used to do that. We'd have a fight and he'd say he was going to move out....and the next morning he'd grab his checkbook and say he was going to go look for a place after work....and I'd be a basketcase of a mess all that day.......and then he'd come home and decide he didn't want to leave afterall. It was pure torture. It was like constantly living on pins and needles. I can't live like that again.


I don't know how to 'play this'...should I make myself unavailable over the weekend so that he can have his space?....just not be around when he calls? (if he does).....or should I just be all sweet and nice and understanding and act like this has all been nothing.


Even as he was walking out the door, he said to me, "I wish you could understand".......understand what, that you're a runner?.....that you are behaving in such a way that you KNOW is going to make me very insecure and worried?.......that you're making me feel like worthless crap by walking out on me?


I really care for this guy. Up until this evening, I was astonished by how much we have in common...how well we get along....what great friends we're becoming........now the first little hint of a disagreement and he heads for the door....leaving me to sit here and be sick to my stomach, feeling it's all my fault...if I'd just blew off the fact that he didn't call, etc.





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I think you should allow him to make the next move. Do not chase him, do not suffocate him, just allow him time to think. Until then do things out of the house, out of your normal enviornment, so this problem isn't running around your head all day.


Take some personal 'girl' time and think carefully. Are you just getting upset because it is a new relationship, where the boundaries are blurred? Realise that things will be, on the up hand, passionate and exciting, but also frightening and mind boggling. You hardly know him and every move he makes, everything he says (or doesn't say) is over analysed by us girls!


It sounds like you guys have just jumped straight into the deep end, spending consecutive nights at your place, totally immersing yourselves in each other. Maybe he just needs some time to get grounded and do his own thing. Maybe he just needs time to sort out his feelings.


Leave him to work out his feelings, but have faith he will come around. I mean he liked you enough to take a chance on a new relationship, especially as he has just been divorced, possibly burnt, so have faith that he just needs time to cool off, de-stress.


Don't make it easy on him though!! Just because he has had a bad day at work does not mean he has to take it out on you!


Good luck, you sound just like me when I start new relationships, and believe me, at the end of the day as long as you are honest to your feelings, and act instinctively, you will never have anything to regret!


I just don't get this. I'm sitting here crying my face off and I'm so confused and feel so hurt. Do I take my new guy at his word or is he just stringing me along? Here's how it goes......for the past week, he's been staying overnight...no sex, just cuddling and lots of talking and getting to know each other more, which has been really nice. There was one night that he decided he'd sleep at his place because he needed to feed his cats and stuff. Last night (Wednesday) he stayed over, and he was supposed to tonight (Thursday). This weekend he has his kids all weekend, so we won't be spending the nights together on Fri, Sat, Sun. This morning when he left for work (left my place), he told me he would call me in the afternoon and let me know how his day was going, what time he'd be at my place, we had some stuff (for his work) to do together. Now, this is a guy who up until this point has always called when he said he would, in fact I rarely call him during the day because I don't want to bother him. He often calls just to say hi or touch base.


I did some Xmas shopping w/ my sister this afternoon.....he knew I'd be doing this from 1-3. He usually calls around 4-5pm, just to say he's on his way to my place, etc. So I get home a little late, and knowing that we have some of his work stuff to do (deliver company presents to people at his work), I rush around to get ready. Today's also our 'two week anniversary'...that he's been mentioning a fair bit (not me bringing it up, cuz it's not like it's some monumental anniversary)....I had a nice surprise for him. Anyway....I wait and wait and wait and wait. I'm getting a little ticked because if I'd known he was going to be so late, I would have finished my Christmas shopping. At 6:30, I decide I'm not going to be one of those chicks who sits waiting by the phone, so I head out shopping. I get home around 8, and I see he's called at 7, then he calls at 8:30.


Maybe it's the PMS? Maybe it's that I'm scared of getting hurt.....maybe it's that I know this past week he's spent his work days going out for lunch and drinks with clients (mostly just Christmas stuff) and that it would have simply taken 1 minute to call and say he'd be late..just to give me some idea, so I could make other plans....seeing as how he'd lead me to believe we HAD plans. So I'm not impressed and he can tell in my voice. He gets to my place around 9:15pm and as much as I try to be cool, I can't hide the fact that I'm thinking "oh great, already the novelty is wearing off and his true colors are emerging and he no longer thinks he needs to keep his word or call when he says he will." So he plunks himself down on the couch and watches Survivor, seemingly OBLIVIOUS to the fact that something is bothering me. Then one of his other favorite shows comes on and again, he's definitely enthralled in it. Oh, I should add....he'd brought his duffle bag with him (to spend the night). So by now I'm sorta smoldering inside......can't imagine why he doesn't SEEM to care enough to at least ask me what's wrong. We're like 2 peas in a pod when it comes to talking about life, sex, relationships, politics, this that and the other thing...but when it comes to me being miffed about something, it appears he's unaffected. So finally at 11pm we began to talk and I calmly (I emphasize the word 'calmly') tell him what's up........there's so much silence on his part that it's awkward. Very awkward. Then he starts telling me what a horrible day it's been and that he didn't really "need this other stuff" to have to deal with...then it comes out that he's not going to stay overnight after all...that he suddenly needs to check on his cats (go home), that he needs his own 'safe place' to be, that he's spent the past week staying at my place (HIS CHOICE) and that he feels like, in essence, he's losing his identity because he's always at my place? So, I feel like I'm going to throw up.....because it seems more than clear to me that he's simply planning on ending things.......I tell him how it 'looks'.......he denies it....just says that he needs to be in his place....I say, "so you WERE going to stay here, but we have a little disagreement (not even close to being a fight) and you suddenly have to RUN AWAY?".....he then goes on about the stressful day he had, and how he's got an early breakfast meeting at 8:30 and how he needs to get some sleep, bla bla bla.


Well let's just say, it's now 2am and he just left, to drive 30 minutes to get home. How much sense does that make? I feel like my heart's been ripped out. Talk about feeling abandoned. I encouraged him to just take all his stuff with him (bathroom stuff, any clothes he has here), cuz I'm thinkin' he's probably never coming back. He of course denies that.....says that he wishes I could understand. Then I pry a little more....and it comes out. When he was married all those years, he says he spent most of the time saying he was sorry for things he didn't even know he'd done......being blamed for things he wasn't aware he'd done ......and in essence, he felt that's what was happening tonight....because I didn't blurt out that something was wrong the minute he walked in the door....that he's not a 'mind reader'......uh, no....but last time I checked, he wasn't a mute either....he could have just as easily asked what was up, it's what I thought he'd do. Talk about acting strange. Then he talks about how when he's here he always worries about his house.....that it could burn down and he wouldn't even know it. WTF? Not once have I asked this guy to stay over......even initially.....one evening when he came by after work, he'd brought some extra clothes and stuff with him, and that was that. I told him not to EVER compare me to his relationship w/ his ex wife......(I resent that).


I also told him a zillion times that I was sorry, that I didn't think I'd make a big issue out of things...it's just that when he'd said he'd call, said we'd do his stuff in the evening, I took him at his word....like I've done from the beginning. Right now I'm very hurt and shocked and feeling insecure....but a little part of me is angry. Angry that a little disagreement (our first) was enough to make him bolt back to the safety of his house. What does that say about any potential future?...that: a) whenever I feel there's something bothering me or we need to discuss something, that I better thinking twice about it, and just 'suck it up' because if I bring it up, he'll just get all weird and decide to leave? b) he can't communicate or see the importance of same? I can't even begin to tell you how hurtful it feels to be sitting here right now, knowing he told me for 3 hours that he was going to go home because the night was ruined because we had a disagreement, and then he FINALLY left...so I had to sit there for 3 hours, crying a little and wondering if he was just being too much of a chickens*** to tell me 'see ya' (for good) Geezus P Murphy....I feel like I've been sh*t on. I feel like someone just walked out on me. What a horrible feeling...and after only 2 weeks? That's crazy. What a good indicator of things to come (if there is a future)...... I assure you, sincerely, that I didn't start a fight.....I wasn't a bitch, I was just quiet, thinking he'd ask what was up and then we'd talk. He seemed to overly enthralled in his TV shows that it seemed pointless for me to bring things up when I obviously wouldn't even have even half of his attention. So all kinds of thoughts run through my head.......the other night when he just HAD to go home to supposedly do laundry, etc......was there more to it? Was the reason he didn't call me this afternoon to let me know how things were going/what we'd be doing (like he said he'd do, like he's been doing every day now for 2 weeks, without the least bit of prompting) because he was someplace with someONE and he couldn't call me? (some other chick he met online?) He assures me that he'll prove to me that he's not wanting to end things..that he'll prove it by the next time he sees me, but what the frick am I supposed to think in the meantime? I feel scared, horrible, alone, like I ruined things..I now feel insecure, I feel a little distrustful, and I feel quite betrayed. It's only 2 weeks and he can't even handle a little civil disagreement/discussion? I mean, you should have seen the look on his face when I was sharing with him how I felt.....I almost thought he was going to cry. I even at one point asked him if he thought that *I* thought he was a jerk or something..and I assured him I didn't think that...just said that we had some miscommunication, I guess, and that men and women are different.......suggested he read John Gray's book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.......(seriously)......I apologized quite a few times and said I was sorry I'd said anything......sorry for being overly sensitive, I guess...but I was just disappointed......he gave me his word and didn't follow through, and at this early point in the game, that's a little disconcerting. He said some of the reasons he just didn't want to stay over were because it's not like we could just cuddle and forget everything had happened. What the hell happened? He makes it sound like we had a full out world war 3 fight. He then said he just needed to be on his own turf and do the things he needed to do to unwind. I asked him what do you plan on doing at 1:30am? So weird. Anybody want to bet I never see him again, that he's just going to blow me off?


I could never do what he did, to anyone. How hurtful. If I had been at his place and this happened, and we'd discussed things and tried to see things from the other person's perspective, that would be great....then I'd want to just move along and put that behind us......I sure as hell wouldn't be all dramatic and full of very lame excuses about why I needed to go suddenly drive home in the wee hours of the morning. What do any of you make of this? And no, I have no in the least bit smothered him. He's the one who's wanted to spend every day together, spend every night together...I've been really cool and laid back....not the least bit needy or clingy..I've let him be in the driver's seat as far as how fast things proceed. I'm just so hurt and don't know what to make of this L

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Yes, I'll try to keep occupied and NOT dwell on this (sure, here I sit at 3:30am)....but I'm such an analytical and sensitive person....it's going to weigh on my mind no matter how I try to avoid that. Something just seems so strange here. This whole "I need to be at my house" crap....and all the lame excuses...and him almost making me feel guilty that he's been spending all his nights at my house. Why has he never said anything til the night we have our first discussion? I mean, Wednesday night he comes straight to my house after work..then he has a work function to attend (company pool (billiards) league)...then he drives all the way home to get some clothes, then comes back over and stays overnight. I didn't ask him to do any of this. I've asked him for nothing. He's the one who's wanted to spend every day together (not that I've minded).


What a convenient time to get 'homesick' when you've just had a disagreement. How the hell is that supposed to make me feel? It makes me feel uneasy, it makes me feel like he wants some time to think whether he wants to be with me, it makes me feel that he has little regard for my feelings. How would he feel if the shoe was on the other foot?


I'm angry and just so shocked.


Then to justify his need to 'flee', he starts talking about what a stressful day he had and how tomorrow will be worse......and I try to tell him that part of being a couple is turning to the other person for support when you're stressed...to vent, to get things off your chest if you had a bad day, etc........you don't run from your partner. He was making me feel that my bringing up my stuff was just the last thing to ruin his horrible day. From what I've been told, this past week has been a piece of cake for him.....the biggest thing in his day each day is going for lunch or drinks w/ clients.....not even having to go into the office......hell, we don't even get out of bed/him leave my house for work til 10-11am. Now suddenly he's had this horrible day that I've just made worse. It all sounds like bull to me.


He very much makes himself at home at my house....hell, he even has his own bathroom!


Maybe things just reminded him too much of his ex wife/their relationship....but if so, how the frig is that my fault?


It wasn't even so much that he didn't call when he said he would...it was the fact that when he did get to my place, he was totally oblivious to the fact that something was bothering me.......that watching fekkin' TV was more important.......and as the hours passed before I finally spoke up and explained why I wasn't too friendly, I was getting more annoyed.


So geez, guess it's all my fault. Maybe I should just pack up all his crap and put it by the front door.


I'm just so afraid this is going to ruin Christmas......so afraid that I'll hear from him in a day or so and he'll say "I guess I'm not ready for a relationship" bla bla...and then I'll be a mess...and then I'll be so down for the holidays and that will ruin it for my family. They've been so happy for me, that I found a good guy.


None of it makes sense. I feel numb



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This "relationship" is going way, way too fast. I know when we're a bit older we tend to cut out some of the steps but that's dead wrong.


You've been seeing this guy two weeks or so. You should still be going out on formal dates ONLY. Having him spend the night in succession without sex, etc., is just like being married after 30 years, except you don't know each other very well.


Putting so much feeling and emotion into someone you hardly know is against everything I have ever written on this message board. Yes, you have talked your hearts out, but that's the normal crap two people do when they first meet. Seldom do you get key information here. That's the time when two people mirror each other and tell each other what they think the other wants to hear.


Put the brakes on and take a few steps backward. No more nights over until you know this guy a lot better.


It seems he does have some issues and perhaps by having him over you have flushed them out. But we all have issues and you have pushed a few of his buttons as well. You are seeing this from your perspective, based on a past of abuse, being cheated on and all your other life experiences. You'll have to learn from what perspective he's seeing things.


I think it's absolutely wrong to demand or expect anything. A lot of people debate me on this concept and that's OK. But my life has been a lot happier, I MEAN A LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT HAPPIER, since I stopped putting demands on and having expectations of FHB's (fallible human beings.) When people tell me they're going to call at a certain time and they don't, I don't eat any worse, I don't drive a worse car, I don't live in a worse house, my health stays just the same, and the war in Afghan goes on just the same. It's a real bonus when people (FHB's) do what they say.


If somebody tells me they're going to call and they never call, well I figure that something has happened, they may have forgotten (as FHB's do sometimes) and MOST OF ALL I stubbornly REFUSE to upset myself over something someone else did or didn't do. To put my happiness as a person in the hands of what another person does or doesn't do is just NOT something that is in my best interests. And I would NEVER remotely consider putting the way I feel in the hands of someone I just recently met.


It always amuses me how people get upset about posts on this board, posts that are anonymous from people they'll never see or talk to. They actually MAKE THE DECISION to have their day ruined by them. That is bizarre!


In my opinion, you should have entered this event into your little book and went right on without having the late phone call upset you so. If he did this often, then that would be the grounds for telling him you prefer to get calls in a timely fashion, something he should already know. If then he failed to comply, you would have to decide if this was important enough to end a relationship or whatever.


I wasn't there to see just how this all came down, didn't see the expression on your face, didn't hear your exact words, but if they resembled that of a demanding past girlfriend or wife, his buttons could have easily been pushed and any man would prefer to go home. That's the honest thing to do. You don't want a man spending the night with you, all the while thinking about some demanding ex wife.


A guy's got to figure that if a woman is demanding about him making a call at a certain time, she may be very demanding about a whole lot of other things too. The pressures of life can get very gruelling without the people we care about and look for support and love from also getting pissed when we screw up.


Oh, yes, YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO BE DEMANDING...absolutely!!! You have an absolute right to demand that he call exactly when he says. But he has an absolute right to want to be millions of miles away from a woman who makes those demands. So in that respect, you are both right.


If you get "How To Practically Never Upset Yourself About Anything" By Albert Ellis and read it a few times, your life will change dramatically.


Had to subscribed to Dr. Ellis' theories (he pioneered Rational Emotive Therapy practiced by thousands of counsellors all over the world), you would not have been bothered by his late call, you would have gone back shopping and enjoyed yourself without worrying or stewing about this guy's lack of consideration, and you would have had a joyous evening of fun, conversation, etc., with your honey...who is, in fact, a fallible human being. They just don't make perfect ones. They just aren't out there. Not nowhere!!!


So, first, in my opinion this is going way way way way way too fast. This kind of thing shouldn't happen so soon after you meet somebody. The worst that should happen at this point is that you just tell him you like your calls made punctual. Yes, I know you (think) you told him with a lot of discretion but sensing you upsetness, I have to believe you communicated some serious disappointment if not anger without realizing it. This is not what a man who has just met a wonderful woman wants to hear or see.


Please get the book. I will buy it for you. Things will be much more pleasant if you don't expect FHB's to do everything according to your book of procedures.


All the days of your life on this planet, people will disappoint you because they won't EVER, NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER, NEVER live up to your expectations of them. They just won't. The sooner you accept that and try to calm yourself and go with life's flow, the sooner you will be truly happy and not upset yourself.


Most of us are raised by irrational parents who themselves were taught to demand and expect. But this is so wrong rationally. Our lives can be so much fuller and richer if we protect ourselves from hurt and cast out from out lives those we eventually find are not compatible with the lifestyles we have chosen.


I hope you will slow this relationship way down. Save the overnights for a time in the future when you have gotten to know him a lot better and perhaps your emotions won't be so charged that you will place the horrendous demands and expectations on him that you now do. He's just a guy, for Pete's sake.


I hate to tell you this, but no man nowhere in this galaxy will ever be able to meet all your demands and expectations on a consistent basis so on the occasions that they do, be joyous but when they don't, just consider it life as usual. I know you well enough that you don't want to hear the psychobabbly bullshxt but I'm telling you just like it is.


It terrifies me to speculate on how many wonderful relationships there could have been if one or both of the parties would just have been a bit cooler.




Now, this guy may not be the guy for you anyway. There may be a multitude of incompatibilities that you will find out. But I think you bypassed a lot of the important getting to know you stuff that is critical to build a foundation to make the overnight stuff a bit more easy to handle.


For you to be in this position after dating the guy for such a short amount of time...wow!!!


I think this will be a nice situation for you if you just look at it a bit differently and don't work yourself up over a phone call. If you hadn't been pacing the floor waiting for it, it would have been no big deal.


I'm a pretty lucky guy, myself. Most females are tickled as hell when I don't call them on time and even happier if I just don't call them at all. Either they are very rational...or maybe the just don't like me. I don't let it bother me.

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Yes, Tony...everything you've said is true.


I'm guess I'm just trying to be tough a bit...and to put into effect, things I've learned from the past.


You see, in the past, I let guys walk all over me....I put my needs down on the bottom of the list. When I look back at the failed/unhealthy relationships, it's so clear (and I've done a lot of reflecting over the past few years) that I was as much to blame as them; I let them treat me like crap and I overlooked a lot of 'red flags'....


Meaning...things were so good in the beginning but at a certain point, then they started to take me for granted....they wouldn't keep their word, about big and small things (mostly a lot of small things)..but because I had 'fallen' for them, I'd just suck it up and smile and continue to think I was the luckiest girl on earth.


The little things start out small.....they don't call you when they say they will (to let you know what the plan is/when to be ready)....then they come over 4 hours late....then they don't come over at all because they're out with the boys having drinks.....then, then, then....


I guess this time, I wanted to make sure I nipped it in the bud right from the start. I guess I overreacted....but I was already thinking, "oh here we go, the honeymoon phase is over".....


I had no intentions of taking things this quickly. He's truly been the one to want things to go so quickly, and I guess I have just been so flattered. Most guys in the beginning of a relationship aren't the way he's been......


He's even talked about worrying that maybe *I* think we're spending too much time together...and all I tell him is that a couple does what they feel is right...and as long as you mutually agree on the pace of things, then there are no actual 'rules'.....


He and I did talk about expectations last night....and I assured him that I didn't expect him to be perfect because God knows I'm not and never will be.....that over the course of time, we'll both 'screw up' and that that's just part of being human (we seriously talked about this).......


As for the staying overnight thing.....well, I think we both just really miss that closeness with someone......just lying there all snuggled, talking about stuff, watching some TV, laughing (sometimes we laugh so hard that it hurts), taking things slow. Most people at this point would have had sex, but we've discussed it and I want to wait a bit.......because I told him that I believe if you jump into that too soon, you miss out on some really key elements of the relationship (getting to really know each other)....that sex changes the whole dynamic of things, and that you just can't go back. He agrees. We're trying to focus more on emotional intimacy.


He phoned not long ago, and him and his boys are taking me out to dinner at McDonalds lol. I guess if I'd really 'blown things' then he wouldn't want to see me, period.....so I am thankful.


And yes, I've written the name of that book down and I'll be getting it as quickly as I can get to a bookstore. Any other books you recommend? What about books for couples in a relationship?


Thanks a lot, Tony, I really appreciate your wisdom and insight...



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But, I would add something.


In your initial post Laurynn, you wrote "Maybe it's that I'm scared of getting hurt".


After reading all the stuff you've posted when I've written (and seeing what you've posted in response to others), I think this is key.


You are instinctively reacting. It's like a boxer: sometimes, they go into a clinch BECAUSE THEY EXPECT A BLOW THAT NEVER COMES.


A lot of boxer's lose fights that way, b/c they are curled up (physically) inside of themselves, their heads are down, and they only see the pain inside themselves (okay, big pyscho babble, but true!).


As you wrote to me, don't let your past color your future (and more importantly, your present).


DATE this guy, put on the brakes like Tony suggested. Don't get upset over every little "presumed" injury. Most of the time, he probably doesn't know you're upset (my current SO also gets my goat when I'm trying to "emote" and he stares at me blankly, but men and women are different).


He may be scared too (doesn't seem like his marriage was a sterling example of smooth sailing).


So, both of you are coming at this new relationship with your old battle scars.


Remember, WWII wasn't won using battle tactics from WWI. Each relationship is different. Give him a chance to please/disappoint you on his own terms. Don't paint him with the brush of your past (but, Laurynn, you know this! In a short time, you've helped me begin to see this myself).


Stay strong and keep us posted.


(One last thing, when I get really peeved at my SO, I always start packing my stuff in his place and trying to take back stuff I've given him. It's a subconscious way of trying to force the other to say "No, don't do that, leave your things here." You and I use this in order to get some type of confirmation that the relationship actually isn't over. Be careful, b/c one day, the one that matters will pack his stuff and not look back).


I hope this made sense? That I wasn't too harsh?


You're a very bright person and I know you understand what's going on.


And please don't cry in the early a.m., I sent you an email, so if you need to write and vent, feel free to do so.





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Gee Laurynn, he sounds like a great guy.


Don't try and control him, just understand that he has issues as well that can't be put into words under these conditions.




(good luck tomorrow at McDonalds too)

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This is what I think he ws thinking....


'gee, she puts so much pressure on me to call at this time, come over, talk about it now etc etc..I feel like I am disappointing her, and I don't want to go though any more of this 'disappointing people'..so I just don't want to talk about this now..it feels overwhelming..I just want to relax and be with her and she keeps putting me under this pressure..I wish she could understand'


Imagine the wave of feelings that go with that...just like yours...


See it from his perspective.



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