sirjay Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Please advise! Recap: my girl broke up with me about 5 months ago, after 3 years - i was living with my ex in another city, didn't move and make a commitment. We both realised how much we loved each other on breaking up. She said she wanted to be "best friends", we fought a lot, I ended up initiating NC. That went on for about 5 weeks, she got back in touch. We gradually started communicating again, last week we met up accidentally and had a really nice evening and it was looking positive for gradually rebuilding things. I was being cool, taking my time, letting her come to me. It was working really well. Then things went out of control at the weekend and we fought again. We are still speaking but there is tension. I think we have both backed off again, things started moving too quickly... Here is the problem: for 3 years, I mostly would stiffen up and back off from conversations about the situation with my ex, feelings etc, because it compromised my security (i couldnt afford to live elsewhere at the time). Since breaking up, i have really sorted out the problems, left my ex's place, moved cities, got my money sorted out, got in shape etc etc. It took 2 years for us to say we loved each other and even then she didnt really like to say to back to me because she was never sure what the situation was. Truth was, i was literally only with my ex for financial reasons but she was always paranoid about that which is fair enough. I know she is still very hurt and angry about the situation, and untrusting of me. It seems pretty clear that we are very much in love but we are both wary of getting hurt again. I think this "friends" thing is a space for us to rebuild something which is very important to both of us. I am pretty certain there isn't another guy on the scene. She has said that she wants us to hang out a lot in august, go to the park etc. last week she was contacting me several times a day and i was taking my time replying... now she has gone quiet again after we fought... The problem is that she refuses to talk about anything to do with feelings or the situation. We get on really well having a joke, talking about work etc but if i try to talk about feelings or what has happened, she just ignores the messages completely. I don't see how we can work this out until she really gets her feelings out. I know she hates fighting and shouting, several times when she has started to express her anger, she has literally just walked off. It was good the other day because she actually said "i'm really angry with you" about the fight at the weekend. That was something of a breakthrough, i felt. But she still wasnt really putting her feelings out. She is generally very open and expressive and great with people but with fighting she just backs off. Another example: she sent me some cute/funny pics of dogs dressed up last week. Oddly, I had been thinking of sending her one of the same pics the day before but didnt because i didnt want to seem too lovey dovey. I simply said i was just about to send her the same pic ... and she ignored the comment. Before, she said she wanted me to be in town for us to hang out. I told her i had found a place the other day and she made polite comment but didnt ask when or show much interest. But then she was asking a lot of questions about who i was going to meet after i saw her, what i was going to be doing on this trip etc. I've been trying to mirror her behaviour to make her feel comfortable enough that we can start to rebond again, but its really unnatural and difficult for me to mask my feelings like this. I get worried that we are going to get stuck pretending to be friends and all this stuff just under the surface won't get sorted out. I can feel all this warmth and love and anger and upset and everything under the surface of our jokes and conversation but i can't risk bringing it up again. Am i being too impatient? She knows how i feel about her and we both know that i am never going to be able to be just a friend. It's been made very clear. Nevertheless, she is still talking about us as friends. I said terrible things to her the other day and said i wanted her to never contact me again, but we still worked things out in the morning. I can't see why either of us would go through that much grief just to be casual aquaintances. How should I handle this? At the moment, i have backed off a bit and i am letting her come back in her own time. She is very, very good at hiding her feelings. I am terrible at it! It feels like a game of chess. What is her game? There are things that are said that i know she is interested in but she pretends not to care, i think. there are things i know she wants to know the answers too but she doesnt ask. Why? Its not that she doesnt want to hurt me, because she has done plenty of that. Why won't she engage in any dialogue about us? It is because she doesn't know what she feels right now? Does she want me to make the moves? is she just not "ready" yet? it really confuses me. If she literally just wants to be friends, surely it would make more sense for her to just tell me she doesnt love me so things dont keep blowing up? I really dont believe that is true but she wont give me any confirmation either way. She just keeps me guessing but its dumb because doing that keeps hurting her too and she keeps running the risk of me cutting her off. She knows i will because i already have ... There is just this huge well of feeling bubbling underneath our friendly banter and support and talk about work. How can i get her to open up? Should i just copy her and pretend to be friends to let her get closer? I don't want to set the pace for that situation and it becomes what we are. But if i do NC she doesnt get a chance to see i have changed and get to know the new me. its tricky... Thoughts?
MrPot Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 That's a pretty confusing situation, and I'm mostly not sure what to say. This, however: But if i do NC she doesnt get a chance to see i have changed and get to know the new me. isn't really true. One of the major reasons to establish NC is to show her you changed. I bet you right now she doesn't think you've "changed." The best way to show her you have, in my opinion, is to show her that you really don't need her. Maybe she's concerned you're still going to be leeching off of her, and that's why you're still around so much. Make her work for you if she wants you.
crazy_grl Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 Sirjay, I'm not sure what to tell you any more, but one thing I want to point out is this: I can't see why either of us would go through that much grief just to be casual aquaintances. Why would you want to go through this much grief for a relationship either? I realize relationships take work, but you don't keep at it when the other party has ended the relationship and is putting in no effort to get it back. Of course you're not casual aquantances. You two HAD a relationship. She's bound to still care about you and is willing to put up with more sh*t than she would from any random person, but that doesn't mean she wants to be with you. Right now, you're running around trying to out maneuver her, guessing what she's thinking and acting according to that guess. When you do that, it's always the wrong move. Here's why: 1- You come of looking very unstable, because your attitude and actions fluctuate based on what you think she's thinking. 2- You don't effectively tend to your own needs. 3- She'll feel manipulated and get resentful. Worry about what's best for you not how to get her back. I know I said before that you should try to stay in casual contact with her because of the circumstances of why you broke up, but now I think total NC is the way to go for you. I doubt you're going to like me saying this, but you don't seem to be able to handle talking with her. You're driving yourself crazy, and you're driving her away. Also, you may have to accept that your efforts were too little to late. She may care about you, but may have reached her breaking point waiting for you to come around. If that's the case, there may be very little chance that she'll let you back in. That could be why she's being stand-offish. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's killing me that you keep torturing yourself like this. You were doing so well for a little while. You just have to stay strong.
Author sirjay Posted July 28, 2006 Author Posted July 28, 2006 thanks x i wasnt chasing her. she came back to me, but then she started playing games with me again. i was and still am taking care of my own thing. she said she wanted to be "friends" but then she seems to want to change the definition of that between more like a cpl to barely aquaintance or even enemy depending on her mood and that is no basis for anything. its immature. i had thought that it might be cool to be friends but she isn't even being that. i was really careful just to be really neutral and friendly and she was still acting really weird. i guess i should probably do NC again. i just wish i knew what was going on here. i think she just didnt like the fact that i was having a great time without her and wanted to **** me up and find out what i was up to. i should probably cut her off but we seem to keep getting drawn back to each other. i'm just not a game playing person. it doesnt come naturally to me.
Author sirjay Posted July 29, 2006 Author Posted July 29, 2006 Right now, you're running around trying to out maneuver her, guessing what she's thinking and acting according to that guess. When you do that, it's always the wrong move. Here's why: 1- You come of looking very unstable, because your attitude and actions fluctuate based on what you think she's thinking. 2- You don't effectively tend to your own needs. 3- She'll feel manipulated and get resentful. . i actually wasn't up until the weekend. i just got horribly drunk and let my guard down. it was self destructive. i dont know what drove me to do that. so what are you saying a person should ideally do in circumstances like this? just refuse to rise to the bait and continue to be pleasant? isn't that just setting up a precedent for an abusive situation? going from lovers to friends, its difficult for the 2 people to judge the "distance". what are the rules? I should add that that she is doing exactly what you said that i am, and your description is how she looks to me. its just that i am the person who is posting here so it looks like i am being led around: we're doing it to each other in turns but you cant see her responding to me. its screwed up. half of her wants to be friends, the other half is just bitter that i was, indeed, taking care of my own needs and having a great time and she wanted to see if she still had power over me and try to hurt me to get revenge. How can two people interact when there is so much emotion boiling underneath? you cant just pretend its not there. Its not just me, she is being incredibly unstable and erratic. The subtext is that: because I hurt her before, i should just take whatever abuse she feels like interspersing amongst the friendship. How can anyone stand steady on ground like that? She moves the damn goalposts at will. You end up being so cagey with each other, you can't get anywhere near each other. i think we are just fighting over control of it, pushing and pulling. the only way i could be around it would be to just act like i dont care at all, in which case why even be in touch? All this could be sorted out by sitting down like adults, opening up, and expressing all of it and then seeing if there is grounds to be anything to each other. She refuses to do that. It's one of the reasons i didnt want to commit to her in the first place. i wish i didnt love the bloody girl. She's too immature. but then she will give me things that i am just not getting elsewhere, emotional support etc. i love being around her. I just can't deal with that amount of hot and cold. I don't want someone in my life who is smiling while she is stabbing me in the back. but we keep getting drawn back to each other. the thing between us is too powerful for either of us to control. we've been apart for a while now and neither of us has moved on at all. you are right, i should do NC but i dont want to let go of it and neither does she.
crazy_grl Posted July 30, 2006 Posted July 30, 2006 so what are you saying a person should ideally do in circumstances like this? Get some distance from the person who's causing all these feelings and confusion. just refuse to rise to the bait and continue to be pleasant? isn't that just setting up a precedent for an abusive situation? When I said be pleasant, I meant as long as the other person is doing so too. If that person isn't doing so, request that they respect you and if they don't, remove them from your life. However, you have to notice the difference between what's their fault and what's yours. If you agree to be a girl's friend and then you see her flirting with another guy and it hurts you, that's your own fault. You have no right to get upset at her. You do however have the right to decide that it's not a situation you want to deal with and extract yourself from it. going from lovers to friends, its difficult for the 2 people to judge the "distance". what are the rules? If you really want to be friends, you have both take time away from each other until the feelings have subsided. But it doesn't often sound to me like you really want to be friends. It sounds like you're hoping that pretending to be her friend will turn into something more. One thing I've noticed is that sometimes it sound like you're just trying to be friends and sometimes it sounds like you're trying to get her back. If you're confusing on here, then you're probably confusing her too. You need to decide what it is you want and then stick to that. You can either be her friend or you can try to get her back. You can't do both, because as long as you want her back, you're not going to make a very good friend. I should add that that she is doing exactly what you said that i am, and your description is how she looks to me. its just that i am the person who is posting here so it looks like i am being led around: we're doing it to each other in turns but you cant see her responding to me. its screwed up. If she's acting the same way then so what? That doesn't mean anything. There are a number of reasons why she could be acting this way, but you can't change how she's behaving. If she won't talk to you, the only thing you can do is decide that you're not going to be a part of this anymore. Do what's best for you until she figures out what she wants and/or decides she wants to talk. How can two people interact when there is so much emotion boiling underneath? you cant just pretend its not there. Precisely. All this could be sorted out by sitting down like adults, opening up, and expressing all of it and then seeing if there is grounds to be anything to each other. She refuses to do that. It's one of the reasons i didnt want to commit to her in the first place. i wish i didnt love the bloody girl. She's too immature. One of life's difficult lessons is that love is often not enough. we've been apart for a while now and neither of us has moved on at all. you are right, i should do NC but i dont want to let go of it and neither does she. I'll be blunt. It sounds like you're in a very f*cked up situation right now. I'm not judging you for it. I know that emotions make us do ridiculous things and f*ck up our judgement. That's why you need to step back and get control over yourself. Sometimes you just have to let go even when you don't want to.
Author sirjay Posted July 30, 2006 Author Posted July 30, 2006 thanks crazy. i have actually done or said nothing that indicates to her that i am after more than friendship, and the way things have gone, i am pretty sure in myself too on that. its pretty clear to me that we are both confused on that. its very clear to me that her thing with me is a love/hate relationship. its getting that way for me too. it wasnt that she was getting the guys number, it was that it was made VERY clear that it was done as an attack on me, as was leading me on and then abandoning me earlier on. she made this whole elaborate play of ignoring me before doing it, and then was way too quick to point out that it was a work contact: she set me up, basically. i can completely see where you are coming from with that reasoning but from the way that things played out and from what she said after, i have zero doubt that it was about trying to hurt me again. she just wants to punish me. the thing is, i have too much self respect to allow that. she completely hasn't forgiven me at all, which is fine. its up to her to decide if and when she wants to do that but as far as i can see, all she has done is become pissed off and jealous that i was getting on bloody great without her, manipulated her way back in and then started playing random mind games again and launching attacks on me then refusing to admit she had done it. the thing is, amongst this fighting, there is a lot of really special, positive stuff that neither of us want to let go of. if she wants to hang onto her grudge indefinitely, its only going to hurt her. i have done everything i can do to show her things have changed, apologised, explained... everything. there is nothing more i can see that i can do unless we talk openly about it. i am either going to call a meeting and literally demand that, or i am just cutting her off for good. i am fed up with it now. its pointless for her to do that because she gets hurt at least as badly as me out of it. like i say, my friend is of the opinion that i should just let her do it and not hurt her back until she feels she has punished me enough, but personally i think she will lose respect for me if i let her do that. i am considering just asking her point blank what it will take for her to forgive me, if there is a way i can play an active part in that, and if she isn't prepared to do it then there is no healthy way we can be in touch. i don't need someone in my life who is waiting to stab me in the back all the time. my brother did that to me for years ....
crazy_grl Posted July 30, 2006 Posted July 30, 2006 I understand what you're saying now and I totally agree with you on this: like i say, my friend is of the opinion that i should just let her do it and not hurt her back until she feels she has punished me enough, but personally i think she will lose respect for me if i let her do that. That would be completely the wrong thing to do. It's also very unfair of her to treat you that way. I feel that if you love someone, you don't try to pay them back for hurting you to even the score. You either forgive them or you don't, because if you really love them, you won't want to see them hurt. I agree with you about having a talk with her to find out where you both stand. Just stay strong and if she isn't willing to talk or to work with you, don't be afraid to walk away.
Author sirjay Posted July 31, 2006 Author Posted July 31, 2006 ok thanks C x i am going to try to do that. its all down to communication. ever since we broke up, she immediately put up this big wall and put all the real feeling behind it. for some strange reason, she seems to think that is a positive way to deal with things. i think its completely the opposite. its like she is two people: one of them really loves me and wants me to be happy and does things that show me that, the other is really spiteful and wants to pay me back. i never know who i am dealing with. i feel really strongly that if i can get her to open up and talk about how she is feeling and get it out in a positive way, that we can make things better gradually.
Author sirjay Posted August 4, 2006 Author Posted August 4, 2006 well, she's been in touch a lot this week. some chat and friendliness, and she called up for emotional support and advice re-work a couple of times. i'm not leading or pushing anything, i just respond if she does ... and not always. the best way i can describe it is this: she is showing me 3 people, not 2. there is a main person who is a front - the "friend" who is constructed, and contrives how much to say and not to say. This is not a natural mode and so she can't always keep it up. So sometimes I see the lover - she forgets or drops her guard and i see the person who still loves me. she keeps reaching for my hand and then remembering and stopping herself (she did this when we first broke up which is understandable but after 5 months of mostly not being around each other?). Then once or twice, i have seen the person who is furious at me for hurting her and can be spiteful. i still really can't work out why she thinks that trying to bottle it all up and not talk about it is a good idea, but i'm not going to push her to talk. i think we need some more time to get comfortable around each other again and then i am going to bring it up in person. there is just way too much unresolved stuff hanging in the air and whether we end up friends or lovers (i am now undecided about which i want), it has to be dealt with.
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