Author winnie_05 Posted July 26, 2006 Author Posted July 26, 2006 My head is so messed up im unsure of what I want, I dont want a relationship with him. I've known him for 5 years, so I cant imagine he'd just want sex end of. I dont mean he'd want a loving relationship. I know he thinks alot of me, but i dont think he'd use me, he's not that kind of person. Theres a deep attraction maybe from both sides, i dont know, but definately from me. Maybe I want to know if he likes me, and if he did i dont know really, maybe i want to be close to him physically and emotionally. I just know my feelings are strong and my heads confused.
newbby Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 you dont want a relationship, so you want just sex too? you need to find out what you really want. it doesnt sound as though you are wanting just a light hearted fling. if it is messing your head up, i would say its more than that. some mm have known their ow for ears and years, and had relationships with them for years and years but still used them, so i wouldnt be too sure. also, if he is as happily married as he appears to be, then he could only be wanting one thing. have you read any of the other ow stories in here? read them back to as far as you can, you will find some similar beginnings to yours that ended in heartbreak. you will find hundreds of them in fact. most of these ow, would have wished they had somebody who had been there to talk them out of it in the beginning. if you cant be talked out of it, thats fine, but at least know what it is you are dealing with. you may as well be prepared wouldt you say. i think you already know he likes you.
Outcast Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 i dont think it is a case of willpower vs no willpower, but ok. Sure it is. Witness: i cant stop thinking about him. I didnt sleep at all last night because he was on my mind. No such thing as 'can't'. It's 'won't'. Treat it the way you do an addiction. Pretend he's booze or chips or whatever it is you overindulge in. How do you stop yourself from indulging? You don't buy them, don't go near them, don't let yourself think about them. Same principle.
whichwayisup Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 I've been around him all day today, i just want him so much. Whenever I looked at him or he was talking to me my stomach was just spinning, (you know the feeling you always get in your stomach when you really like someone). I could hardly eat. Ok, so what. You want him...But you can't have him! Put the thoughts out of your head because if you don't, YOU are the one who's going to get hurt and feel very used. On Saturday i'll be with him all day at a wedding, and obviously his wife and other people, its so hard. Take note that he is going to be with his wife. Don't talk to him nor flirt with him. This is a test for your self control in every way. They wanted me to try my wedding outfit on, i had two i wasn't sure about, one of the outfits is where you can see quite a bit of cleavage, he made a point of saying how much he liked and prefered that one on me. Why was he around when you were trying wedding outfits on? Just curious. Also, if he wasn't around, how come he's aware of your choices in dresses? Him commenting on the dress you've chosen, just shows what a pig he is. To say he prefers OUTLOUD the one that shows more cleavage. It's inappropriate for him to be telling you those things. He's playing you, wanting your attention, but has no real intention of following through. And even if he does make a move on you - It's just for one thing. Sometimes I wonder whether he does like me or whether hes fond of me? I'll say it again. This is your ego wanting to know if he's interested. Obviously he is curious, sexually. Remember, men can easily have lust and sex which is completely different than love and sex. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's more than that. If I could switch my feelings off I would like a shot. Actually, you can. Seems you don't want to though. You have alot more control over yourself than you realize. It's calling, changing your thought pattern. Every time you think of him, PUSH him out of your head. When you start feeling those butterflies, distract yourself and keep busy. Don't let the feelings keep on feeding and growing into something. You're letting it control you instead of you controlling it. Sorry, but you need to hear this stuff... All this is killing me, i cant stop thinking about him. I didnt sleep at all last night because he was on my mind. Again, you have control over your thoughts, instead of letting your mind go into fantasyland.......
newbby Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 yes outcast, in some cases it may be. in some cases ow weigh up the odds of it being a good or bad decision, and miscalculate. sometimes it looks as though it would be a good move at the time, and we can only make the decisions best we can at any given time. sometimes even for some ow, it has been a good decision that paid off, although very very rarely. but it is important to really look at the reality of the man and the situation and yourself before you can believe in that possibility. i think the important thing is to really be self aware, about what it is you are hoping this will bring you, what it is you want and need in your life and why. what you may be trying to escape, and why. identifying fears etc. looking carefully at the mm, and what they really want is the next thing you MUST do. i think the old willpower vs no willpower is very basic, and not usually helpful. i mean considering i have turned down about ten mm in my life and then got hooked on one kind of proves my point. unhealthy decisions are made at unhealthy times, usually. this makes sense. usually if someone is seriously considering the situation there is something more going on. this is just my opinion. however, i have also been there, and although i only went in my shoes, there may be certain similarities sometimes.
Outcast Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 This particular person is able to walk away now. She just needs to make that choice.
norajane Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 Him commenting on the dress you've chosen, just shows what a pig he is. To say he prefers OUTLOUD the one that shows more cleavage. It's inappropriate for him to be telling you those things. We don't really know what's what. She could have asked which dress he liked better and solicited his comment. He may not have said that he liked that dress in particular because of the cleavage. He may have just said he liked one over the other. Maybe the other dress was just ugly or made her ass look big or like she had piano legs. My point is, it's possible that she's reading too much into something that's not really there...because that's what she wants to see or believe, just to fuel the fantasy.
whichwayisup Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 My head is so messed up im unsure of what I want, I dont want a relationship with him. Ok, you're feeling messed up. Imagine how messed up you'll be feeling if something happens between you two? Him still going home to his wife, you falling for him more and more...No good can come of this. NONE. Short term fun and good feelings isn't worth the long term pain and suffering. Just go ask most of the OW who've posted about their situations. If they had to go back and do it all over again, 9/10 of them would NOT have let it happen. Notice how I say, "let it happen". Outcast is right, it's not about "I can't." It's "I won't." I've known him for 5 years, so I cant imagine he'd just want sex end of. I dont mean he'd want a loving relationship. I know he thinks alot of me, but i dont think he'd use me, he's not that kind of person. Theres a deep attraction maybe from both sides, i dont know, but definately from me. He would use you if he knew he could have sex with you, and not have his wife find out. That isn't caring about you, as a friend, a friend who's known you for 5 years. That's a selfish man who wants to have his cake and eat it too. You think he won't give you lines, all the things you want to hear so you'll have sex with him??? He would use you, not maliciously, but it would serve HIS purpose perfectly. Maybe I want to know if he likes me, and if he did i dont know really, maybe i want to be close to him physically and emotionally. I just know my feelings are strong and my heads confused. Why are you hellbent on knowing what he feels for you???? Look, you're falling for a MARRIED MAN. You think you can just have casual sex with him, bond with him, let your feelings grow for him and NOT have it be a relationship? Something you said you already did not want? Hello!! That is insane. Again, you don't want this to stop and you're not trying to do anything to prevent it from happening. Good luck because you're going need it if you continue down this road.
JamesM Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 Winnie, I am a MM and have come close to being a "pig." Please remember what I said came from what I know a woman should think when I do make a pass. I could easily have been the man you are referring to. Not because I have done what you said, but I understand where he wants this to go. I can be sure that he is waiting for you to make the move. If you want him, make a flirting comment to him. Get him alone and brush up against him. Let him see that cleavage and you will be on your way. Unfortunately, he is NOT interested in any sort of longterm relationship. He would spend time with you, then he will tell you that his wife doesn't have sex with him...which may be true but he should put that energy into his relationship, then he will tell you that he will leave his wife, then he will have second thoughts and go back to his wife, then he will call you and say, nope he is leaving his wife, then he will say that he is going to try to work it out with his wife, then...ad nauseum. At some point the final break will occur and he will continue with his life and you will be hurting. Don't follow your heart. Follow your mind.
newbby Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 well i would still have done it. that is because it was necessary at a time in my life. in fact i believe it saved my life. there are others who's lives were temporarily ruined by it. it all very much depends. that is why it is so important to identify where you are coming from, and exactly WHAT the situation is. ok, so make your decision not based on what you are reading from him entirely. after all, look at how many intelligent women have fallen for mm. these mm all looked and spoke and cried as though they were completely in love with these ow. the similarities are not coincidental. mm that cheat are very good actors. please go and read man alives post in the "how do wives do it" thread. it doesnt matter that you have known him for five yeas, so please do not let that be a factor in your decision. do your research because you are heading towards an a, and you need to be aware of what you are going into. so far you seem to not be listening too much to the answers you are getting. this makes me think that you are really needing to believe in this little love story.
Joelle Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 Winnie, I am a MM and have come close to being a "pig." Please remember what I said came from what I know a woman should think when I do make a pass. I could easily have been the man you are referring to. Not because I have done what you said, but I understand where he wants this to go. I can be sure that he is waiting for you to make the move. If you want him, make a flirting comment to him. Get him alone and brush up against him. Let him see that cleavage and you will be on your way. Unfortunately, he is NOT interested in any sort of longterm relationship. He would spend time with you, then he will tell you that his wife doesn't have sex with him...which may be true but he should put that energy into his relationship, then he will tell you that he will leave his wife, then he will have second thoughts and go back to his wife, then he will call you and say, nope he is leaving his wife, then he will say that he is going to try to work it out with his wife, then...ad nauseum. At some point the final break will occur and he will continue with his life and you will be hurting. Don't follow your heart. Follow your mind. You made some good points.
Author winnie_05 Posted July 28, 2006 Author Posted July 28, 2006 I know your all right. I was thinking back to when this first happened to me, i fell for this mm and we met up a few times, spoke on the phone all the time, he used to ring me in the early hours of the morning when his wife was in bed, we'd talk for hours. The things he did were so sweet. I fell for him big way, this was my first love. I remember once we had planned on going out somewhere after he had finished work, but just as he had rushed home and tried to get out before his wife arrived back, she arrived home. He phoned to tell me couln't come, I cried all night. Thats all I can remember how unhappy I was when I wasn't with him, which was alot of the time. We broke up, he said he couldn't do this to his wife, she never found out. It was only me who got hurt! Maybe I should learn from my own lessons, I suppose it is like an addiction, once it gets hold of you, you have to control it, but how hard are addictions to cure? I know you're all trying to help me and i'm greatful but who have you have been through something similar to understand?
whichwayisup Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 but how hard are addictions to cure? Obviously this one is the hardest to break. If you need help to get over him, go talk to a therapist. You should learn from your own lessons. Do you want to have that hurt again in your life? And don't fool yourself into thinking this MM won't do the exact same thing as the other one.
newbby Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 do you always go for unavailable men? i am only asking because i know for myself, i did, and had some commitment phobias to deal with. if this is your second mm you have fallen for, it seems to be a bit more than coincidence.
whichwayisup Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 Newbby is right. It seems (unless it's just bad luck) you're attracted to men you really can't have. I'll say it again, you've been hurt before, you know how this thing will play out. WHY are you allowing yourself to be put in a situation where you know NO good can come out of it?
witabix Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 Newbby is right. It seems (unless it's just bad luck) you're attracted to men you really can't have. I'll say it again, you've been hurt before, you know how this thing will play out. WHY are you allowing yourself to be put in a situation where you know NO good can come out of it? I echo this post. I will add this also. Why would you be attracted to a man who behaves in this way, if his motives are to woo you, he is married. In my book that makes him a scumbag. Married men should be polite and friendly to other women, but should not be making googly eyes, and should make every effort to ensure that they do not give off any inappropriate signals. It also incumbent on you not to misread what he is doing. He may be just a genuinely friendly man and you are misreading him altogether. If he has said nothing than I hope it means precisely that.
Outcast Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 but how hard are addictions to cure? It's not meth. It's not a chemical dependency. It's a very curable addiction. I know you're all trying to help me and i'm greatful but who have you have been through something similar to understand? Everybody at some point gets a crush on someone they shouldn't or can't have. Like I said, I've had plenty of opportunities and some of the guys were very attractive, nice, the whole package. But I just refused to go there. Just because I would like to have something doesn't mean I'm entitled to have it!!! That's not how the world works. Too bad if I even got 'addicted'. It's not right or decent for me to do that to a fellow female. So I don't. So the very very smartest thing is to cut off any attraction to a married man IMMEDIATELY, rather than hanging around for a while and allowing the crush to build. But you can still stop it now.
newbby Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 it all depends outcast, you have to weigh up the potential benefits/damage, for the most amount of people. for instance, i think that my a, had a beneficial effect, on me, on him, and perhaps saved his marriage too. in the event of a very unhappily married man, exisitng in a very unhappy marriage, with a very unhappily married wife, and children stuck in the middle, meeting and falling in love with, and feeling happy with another person, and resulting in the end of that awful marriage and a new happy relationship, then thats actually a positive event for all of those people. the important thing is to be self aware, and make sure you know the truth of the other people involved. in this case, it looks as though winnie has some cp issues. she is not being self aware, or she would have identified this already. so the first step is to look at herself. if a person is not self aware, then most of their behaviour is blind. i think this is the first step always. outcast, i see what you are saying, but perhaps everyone is not like you, and therefore the decisions you made are perhaps irrelevant to this person. besides which, using yourself as an example of what to do/not do, is one of the biggest examples of judgementalness. judgement is just not a positve input.
Outcast Posted July 29, 2006 Posted July 29, 2006 it all depends outcast, you have to weigh up the potential benefits/damage, for the most amount of people. for instance, i think that my a, had a beneficial effect, on me, on him, and perhaps saved his marriage too You can't predict such things in advance. Sure, afterwards if the mm ends up back with the wife and they're happier, that's great, but I'd not line up for a medal since it was an unforeseen consequence. Clearly, people who have been in these situations need to rationalize to themselves why it wasn't such an awful thing. However a lot of people do end up feeling it was quite awful when it happens to them. besides which, using yourself as an example of what to do/not do, is one of the biggest examples of judgementalness. When it comes to infidelity om/ow boards, everything short of jubilant encouragement is considered 'judgmental'. Sorry, it doesn't wash.
Author winnie_05 Posted July 29, 2006 Author Posted July 29, 2006 Well i'm waiting for them to come and pick me up for the wedding, and I'm going to try my best today not to be near him unless I have to be, not to look at him to try and make eye contact again unless i have to. I need to do this for myself, but it'll be very hard seeing as I have feelings for him. The mm that hurt me before didnt tell me he was married until we'd been together for a while and by then it was too late, i'd fallen for him. I've always been attracted to older men, even when I was at school i had a major crush on one of my teachers that lasted for years and I knew he was single because he used to talk to me about it, and his home life, sometimes we'd talk for up to an hour after school had finished. I dont know why I fall for people like this. Maybe its the older guy thing, i don't know.
newbby Posted July 29, 2006 Posted July 29, 2006 You can't predict such things in advance. Sure, afterwards if the mm ends up back with the wife and they're happier, that's great, but I'd not line up for a medal since it was an unforeseen consequence. it clearly was not a self congratulatory statement. i obviously did not go into the a for the purpose of saving his marriage. i went in to save myself, and it worked. i was simply saying, it is not always damaging to the marriage, sometimes the opposite occurs. no you cannot predict everything in advance, you have to weigh up risks and benefits. Clearly, people who have been in these situations need to rationalize to themselves why it wasn't such an awful thing. However a lot of people do end up feeling it was quite awful when it happens to them. i have nothing to rationalise. why don't you ask somebody how they really feel instead of putting your interpretation on things. i am talking about looking at positives. yes some people do end up feeling awful, and i had moments of this during the a. this is why it is important to see where you yourself are coming from, this involves a good brave look at yourself, and isnt usually easy. When it comes to infidelity om/ow boards, everything short of jubilant encouragement is considered 'judgmental'. Sorry, it doesn't wash. or maybe this is something you say to excuse the fact that you only feel good if you consider yourself higher than other people. you could look at it both ways.
newbby Posted July 29, 2006 Posted July 29, 2006 Well i'm waiting for them to come and pick me up for the wedding, and I'm going to try my best today not to be near him unless I have to be, not to look at him to try and make eye contact again unless i have to. I need to do this for myself, but it'll be very hard seeing as I have feelings for him. The mm that hurt me before didnt tell me he was married until we'd been together for a while and by then it was too late, i'd fallen for him. I've always been attracted to older men, even when I was at school i had a major crush on one of my teachers that lasted for years and I knew he was single because he used to talk to me about it, and his home life, sometimes we'd talk for up to an hour after school had finished. I dont know why I fall for people like this. Maybe its the older guy thing, i don't know. well if it is just older guys you like, then thats not such a bad thing. i am sure there are plenty of single older guys. how old are you anyway? what are you looking for in a relationship?
JamesM Posted July 29, 2006 Posted July 29, 2006 She is 21 and has been with two married men already. My suggestion is to learn to read the signs that men are lying to you and to get some counseling as to why men who are committed retain such a fascination for you.
whichwayisup Posted July 29, 2006 Posted July 29, 2006 well if it is just older guys you like, then thats not such a bad thing. i am sure there are plenty of single older guys. how old are you anyway? what are you looking for in a relationship? That's fine if they're not married. Yes, I know one lied to her, but the A didn't end when she found out he was.
whichwayisup Posted July 29, 2006 Posted July 29, 2006 Well i'm waiting for them to come and pick me up for the wedding, and I'm going to try my best today not to be near him unless I have to be, not to look at him to try and make eye contact again unless i have to. I need to do this for myself, but it'll be very hard seeing as I have feelings for him. Them? Meaning the MM and his wife are picking you up to take you to the wedding? Winnie, you MUST work very hard to get this guy out of your head. He's not available to you and the fact you'll see him at the wedding with his wife should be enough visual for you NOT to want to think about him. If you do look at him, "see" how he interacts with his wife. The love is there between them. Maybe seeing that will make you stop and see the feelings you have for him are pointless and not going anywhere. The mm that hurt me before didnt tell me he was married until we'd been together for a while and by then it was too late, i'd fallen for him. I've always been attracted to older men, even when I was at school i had a major crush on one of my teachers that lasted for years and I knew he was single because he used to talk to me about it, and his home life, sometimes we'd talk for up to an hour after school had finished. I dont know why I fall for people like this. Maybe its the older guy thing, i don't know. How was your relationship with your father? Sorry to ask such a therapist question, but it makes me wonder.
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