stevensgirl Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 my post might be kind of long but I'll try to keep it as short as I can. I really need some opinions here, not so much for just me but for my boyfriend too. I posted a couple of days ago, in another section of this site but for a different reason and only got 2 opinions. I was hoping if I went into more detail I might get a few more relpies and be better able to make some decisions I need to make. Heres my story: Almost a year and a half ago my husband left me, I found out that he'd had a boyfriend throughout our 11 year marraige, and he wanted a divorce. In our divorce I got half the money and property which totals almost $420,000.00. Because my ex-husband and I didn't have a very good marraige and hadn't slept together in years, I wasn't terribly devestated over it. I had remained faithful to him all those years, I had no idea he was gay, I just thought he didn't love me anymore but chose to remain in the marraige because we have 2 children. A few months after my divorce I met a man named Steven one night at one of my sons football games and it was an instant attraction for me, I call it love at first sight but in all honesty it was more lust at first sight. I called him the next day and invited to take him out to coffee, just for someone to talk to. We went out and spent the entire night together talking about my failed marraige as well as his, he'd been divorced for almost 2 years at that point and the reason he and his ex had divorced was because she was constantly cheating on him and she wanted out of the marraige badly. He explained to me that he and his ex-wife still had some sexual activity once in a while and that he had dated other women since his divorce but his ex managed to chase most of them off. He ended up taking me out later that night to a club for a drink and we danced and talked more and I realized that it was more than just an attraction, he was the man of my dreams. I know that sounds stupid but I really fell head over heels. I made a huge mistake that night and ended up sleeping with him, we used protection, and it was something I'd never done before in my life. I guess after years with no intimacy with my ex-husband, I was really in need of some sort of contact with someone, please don't judge me for that. Anyhow, a week went by and I didn't hear from him so I called him back, I was curious as to why he didn't call me, I thought we'd hit it off really well. He had tried to call but I had given him the wrong phone number, I accidentally reversed 2 of the numbers. Anyhow from that day on we saw each other almost every day, most times for the whole evening, sometimes for just an hour or so but for 3 months we saw each other every day. Very early into our relationship I told Steven that "if you sleep with your ex-wife again, don't come back to me for more", we continued to see each other and continues to be sexually active together so I suspected that he had stopped sleeping with her, I didn't ask but he didn't tell. Most nights when I was visiting him, (I always went to his house), he has custody of his 3 children and because one is a young child it was easier for me to go there. Around 10:00 p.m. most nights he would start rushing me out of there and I knew it was because his ex-wife brought their oldest son back to his house after work at night and he didn't want us to bump into each other. One night about 3 months into our relationship, I found his ex-wifes car in the driveway in the middle of the night. When I questioned him the next day he told me that, yes as a matter of fact he had slept with her the night before and that he'd never meant to hurt me. I subsequently found out that they had been sleeping together off and on the entire time we'd been seeing each other, not only that but a lot of nights when she dropped their son off, she would also sleep at his house, not only that but in his bed. He says that only occaisionally on those nights did they have sex. He explained to me that all along he told me there was a chance that they would get back together, that he wasn't sure which one of us he wanted. I thought he was as much in love with me at that point as I was with him. I didn't want to lose him, I was madly in love with him so I forgave him but whenever he needed to spend time with her to do her taxes or discuss the kids, I would freak out. Eventually one night about 6 months into it, when I was at his house she ambushed us and walked right into his house to confront me. She told me she'd made many mistakes and yes she had cheated on him but that she'd realized he was her "soulmate" and it was her intention to "die in his arms or him in hers". I told her that I love him too and that I didn't know what to do. She demanded that he make a choice and so he did, he walked over to me, kissed me and told her,"fine, you have my choice". He and I stared living together about a month later, I moved out of my house and into his and am selling my home. Since I have lived here our sex live has dropped to about once a week and sometimes not at all in a week or so, even though I've repeatedly told him that I want more intimacy with him. He had requested that I try to be friendly with her because of the kids and I tried. She and I went out to coffee several times and we spoke on the telephone for hours at a time for weeks, she would try to convince me to leave him, tell me how much she loved him, etc... and it started to wear on me. The last straw was when she told me there was "no way he loved me, he was using me as his housekeeper, cook, babysitter and for my money". He called her and told her he intended to marry me and to knock it off, there ended up being a big blow out that night between her and us when she came over again in the middle of the night trying to convince him to talke her back. For the most part she stays away now though she does tell the kids really nasty things about us, sometimes sexual stuff. Ive been living with him for 6 months and we have ben together for nearly a year now. Steven and I haven't had a conversation in almost a year that he doesn't bring her up. She is supposed to pay $550.00 a month/ child support but most often she pays nothing, just recently he told her she has to pay something so he lets her pay whatever amount she comes up with, right now it is $400.00 a month. Meanwhile, due to circumstances I won't get into, my money is tied up right now and I can't spend any of it until September, however I do have a monthly income and pay my way in Stevens home. When I can, I am going to pay off his house, $55,000.00 and his credit card debt, $20,000.00 which is mostly her debt (he paid her insurance, rent, bankruptcy, etc. after the divorce because she kept getting "behind"). The idea is to start off with a clean slate. School is about to start again for the kids which means she will start calling here every day at 6:00a.m. and again at night to talk to the kids, there is nothing worse than to be awakened every morning to the ex-wifes phone call. Recently, because of the lack of intimacy I started thinking about the fact that he was, not a year ago having quite the active sex life and now his drive has dropped to minimal. He turns me down most times and quite often it is just a quickie in the shower. Last night we went to bed early and instead of making love, we watched a movie until midnight and he rolled over and went to sleep. I spent the entire time we were watching the movie caressing his inner thigh, belly and chest and he never showed any signs or arousal nor did he show any indication that he was interested in being intimate. It's been over a week since the last time we were. I know he isn't sleeping with someone else because he goes to work every day and comes home directly after. He tells me every night that he loves me, in fact he asks me, "you know I love you, right". I am very much in love with him, I don't understand why his drive is so low, he's fairly young, 42, I'm only 39 and neither of us is unattractive or overwieght, no major health problems. I guess out of anger and still being hurt that he was sleeping with her, I've brought it up and he says if I look at it as him having cheated, we will never work. He says he was completely honest, when I asked and that he thought I meant if he slept with her not to come to me for sex the same day or even the next day. On the weekends he will keep me out all night long and by the time we get in I'm too tired for sex and during the week he'll have to shoot out to the store at 11:00 at night and by the time we get back, he's too tired and has to got to sleep because he gets up at 6:a.m. He is not a wealthy man and works hard for every penny he makes, he is a good man and I love him with all my heart. I am willing to spend every penny I have to make us a comfortable life. Between us we have 5 kids, his are 8,15 and 18. Mine are 16 & 17. They will all be grown and gone soon and it will be just us, if we make it. He was going to ask me to marry him last week but because we didn't get to make a trip we'd planned, to meet his dad, he's opted to wait. He asked me one other time but took it back so he could ask on that trip. Now he is saying within a year. I don't know what REALLY is going on with this guy, he's a hard one to figure out. I just want to know if this can work or if I'm wasting my time, too much damage done witht he cheating/not cheating. What do you think???
typical Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 I didn't want to lose him, I was madly in love with him so I forgave him What a mistake that was! When I can, I am going to pay off his house, $55,000.00 and his credit card debt, $20,000.00 which is mostly her debt (he paid her insurance, rent, bankruptcy, etc. after the divorce because she kept getting "behind") Excuse me??! So in reality, you are paying for her debt, then? Just out of curiosity, how do you know that they are both not playing you? How can you be so sure that he (they) are not just using you to pay off the debt, and as soon as the coast is clear, he bails?? I really just cannot believe this fine mess that you are in... For the most part she stays away now though she does tell the kids really nasty things about us, sometimes sexual stuff. Gee, she sounds healthy. I thought there was some law that stated this was form of abuse? Could be wrong though. He says he was completely honest, when I asked Yeah, after you caught him.... and that he thought I meant if he slept with her not to come to me for sex the same day or even the next day right, it was all just a big misunderstanding on his part.... NO...He knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and now he pulling the old bait and switch tactic with you. WHAT A COWARD. I know he isn't sleeping with someone else because he goes to work every day and comes home directly after There is such a thing called "Lunch Break". I am willing to spend every penny I have to make us a comfortable life. Which is what he is counting on, I am sure. He was going to ask me to marry him last week but because we didn't get to make a trip we'd planned, to meet his dad, he's opted to wait. He asked me one other time but took it back so he could ask on that trip. And the only time he can ever ask you is on that trip......he's a real piece of work... I just want to know if this can work or if I'm wasting my time, too much damage done witht he cheating/not cheating. I cant tell you this one, but IMO, you are wasting your time...and your money. I just get the feeling that you are so absorbed with your intense love for him that you are not really paying attention to the big picture. Take a step back for a moment. Re-read your post. Now, what does it really sound like to you?? I am sure he is a good man...most con artists are..... I just have a bad feeling about this one. I could be way off of base, maybe I really am, but I cant help but think he is taking you for a ride...I hope that is not the case, because you say you are in love with him, but you know what they say: "love is blind"
Pedro Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 Typical seems right on with the advice given. I read your lengthy synopsis and though its hard for me to relate to your situation since I'm 22, this guy sound like a jerk he has no business even alowing you to spend 70k on his debt. You should not get married to him with out a good prenup. You went through something really tough finding out your husband was cheating on you with some man your on the rebound with this guy. From everything I read you need to break it up and go through the pain of losing this new guy dont call or speak to him for 3 months and you'll forget all about him. Any guy would be lucky to have you, he's not that into things so what if he asks if you know that he loves you actions speak louder than words
hchris6738k Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 have you ever heard the quote "love is blind"? you are definetely blind right now. I don't want to hurt your feelings but you have got to snap out of it and get your life together. your marriage lacked in so much, then you met this guy, and, ofcourse you fell in lust/love with him HE'S NOT GAY! and feeling an attraction that is mutual can be so exiting after the kind of marriage that you had that you have convinced yourself that this is THE GUY. he is a very good con-artist, he's gotton you, early on in relationship to tell him so many things like how much money you have. he's also so good at conning you, he actually still sleeps with his x-wife, and has you convinced that he really loves you and wants to marry you-NEWS FLASH-he is still in love with x-wife!! he deserves an academy award. both he and the x-wife are playing you. i pray you do not pay off the credit cards and his house, sorry hon, not your responsiblity! to be honest, i went thru a bad divorce and lost everything i ever worked for, my x-husband was a good con-artist, which i was blind to even after he got the house and everything in it and all my money, it actually took me until probably a year after that to actually realize i was played and used. i actually beleived in his "good intentions" for my kids and myself! he is good just like this jerk. in my financial position right now, if i met a guy who was willing to give me over $70,000.00 as long as i told him i loved him, and even though he gets upset over me sleeping with an x, i know i can get away with it, as awful as it is i would probably do it too! --you are vulnerable and believing what you want to believe ! --you are being played by your "boyfriend" AND his x-wife, the fact they still have sex is bad enough (huge red flag) but there is alot more going on between the 2 of them that you realize (because you don't want to see it) my advise to you-------get out of that relationship asap, you don't owe a guy like that any explanation, he will cry, he will continue to play you, don't let yourself be sucked into that, remember, he will cry because with you breaking up with him he is loosing all that money (i'd cry too) women get played easily by men crying and acting depressed. he is not even worth saying good-bye to, i know this is easy for me to say because i'm not emotionally involved, but i think you should just dump him, as in, move away, start new life, meet REAL men, change phone # etc... --------next thing to do, GET COUNSILING, i did the same and i can't be played by a man very easily any more, i learned the red flags and what NOT TO DO when you're in a relationship, and what not to fall for. -----keep things about your life PRIVATE, you make yourself vulnerable to people like them by telling them so much, right away you told him why your marriage didn't work out, and it sounds like you told him about all the money you got in your divorce pretty quick too. that is a huge ammount of money, and that is your private business, no one elses!!! you were his and x-wife's prey from the start. ---you didn't even give yourself the chance to meet other men, i think you need to do that!! -last bit of advise, remember, just because a guy isn't gay dosn't mean he is a real man.
Walk Posted July 24, 2006 Posted July 24, 2006 I told Steven that "if you sleep with your ex-wife again, don't come back to me for more", This is clear. If he was uncertain as to what you meant, then he should've asked. He understands the pain of having someone cheat on him. If he assumed it was an open relationship, then why didn't he mention anything further about it? There would be a discussion of some sort. Off hand comments about it. If he honestly believed he was doing nothing wrong, then there would be no cover up. Yes, he told the truth when caught. But nothing prior to being caught. He lied while he was having sex with her. Then twisted your words to fit his purpose. If I tell someone "If you have sex with another person, then don't call me again" What do you assume that means? And if you aren't clear, wouldn't you ask? It's kind of important to the relationship, don't you think? Highly important. Wouldnt' you ask for clarification if you were even the slightest bit unsure what was meant by that? I sure as hell would. Do you want someone who won't even discuss something so majorly important in a relationship? Think this through.. If he were to make a comment saying "if you sleep with other guys, don't come back to him that day, or the next"... wouldn't you take a step back at that point and question what he's saying? If you seriously thought he meant that it was okay for you to sleep with other men as long as you didn't have sex with him that night, wouldn't some little part of your head say "WTF?" You'd wonder if he didn't love you very much if he was fine with you sleeping with others. You'd wonder if he was suggesting it so he could sleep with other women. You'd wonder a million things that aren't good about the intentions behind that statement. And I would bet all the money I have that you would vocalize your question about the meaning behind that statement. Did he question your meaning AT ALL? Did he say one word that expressed doubt as to what you were implying? Don't pay off his debt either. I realize you feel you have the money (or will) and that you would want your SO to have a comfortable life. But please, please don't do it. I'm talking from experience, okay? I gave my ex hundreds of thousands of dollars to ensure that we had a comfortable life. He took every penny I had. By the time he'd milked me dry, he was set up with a beautiful house, $200,000 grand in his pocket, a brand new car and three new motorcycles. I had a broken down car, several thousand in debt, and the clothes on my back. "but I loved him...." He just used me. Used my love, my money, my generosity, and my kindness. Someone who loves you doesn't do that to you. They don't accept anything they can't repay. And there's no way you're bf could ever repay you $70,000. Do NOT give more then you will get. Doesn't matter if you have it available. Anyone who can take something like that and not feel so guilty and pathetic for accepting it, doesnt' give a crap about you. Please, please don't give him that money. I'll beg you not to... you might not understand right now, but I'd rather you never understand why I say this, then have to go through what I did. I was with my ex for almost 9 years... You've only known this man for a year. I believed my ex would never take advantage of me, and I knew him a lot longer than you've known this man. Please don't give him the money, you will regret it and you'll never ever see it come back to you. Not in favors, not in love, and not in kindness... If you feel so guilty that you have it and he doesn't, then give to a charity. Tie your money up so you can't touch it until you retire. Anything. But not him. Tie the money up in college funds for all the kids. But don't throw it away on some bills that he can pay off himself. Those kids could use that money to actually get a good education and career in life. And you'll have a far greater reward than you ever would paying of his ex-wifes credit cards. ps. He's still sleeping with his exW. He has no interest in sex with you. He makes excuses not to have sex with you. He doesn't get an erection even while your caressing him. If he hadn't cheated on you before, then I might say it's a medical problem... but he cheated and justified it to himself and you. He won't make the mistake of telling you he's still doing it because he knows there's nothing he could say that would justify it to you any more. I cheated on my ex right under his nose. I was home every day after work, he was convinced I couldnt' have had the time to do it. But it doesnt' take much time to cheat really. An hour here, hour there. Lunches, or take an hour or so off work during the day. Clock out at 2 instead of 5. Be home at the regular time. He cheated. You know this. He's justifying his actions. He's trying to rationalize them. What he did was betray your trust, comprimise the exclusivity of the relationship and then attempt to talk his way out of it. You know this... but you want to believe him so badly that you don't want to see it as cheating. But it is...
typical Posted July 24, 2006 Posted July 24, 2006 Every single thing Walk said was bang on. For sure. Listen to her. Absorb everything she just said. Please don't give him the money, you will regret it and you'll never ever see it come back to you. Not in favors, not in love, and not in kindness... This is true. I have witnessed first hand the way con artists work. You will be left torn to shreds and holding the bag. Do not be so gullible. Protect yourself and your children. Dont get so absorbed with a man that you compromise you and your childrens lives and futures. Save yourself from the tremendous amount of bitterness and regret. Why do I get this persistent feeling that you are not going to heed our advice??? Perhaps because he has sweet talked you for so long, and you are in love. Another reason might be because you are unsure of how to get out of the situation....He is expecting that you will be paying, therefore things are moving in perpetual motion. You dont have a good enough excuse to take back what you already said. Find a way. As Walk said, try to tie up your money somewhere, a charity, the childrens education....although he will convince you that you could "worry about that later".....I understand you will probably need a strong, pressing reason why you cant help him anymore....hhmmm... My advice?? Incorporate someone that you trust into this. Preferably a family member. Make up a story. Introduce the beginnings of the idea that you "might not have enough money after all..." to help him. Hint around that money is tight now.....Think up a good story. And dont feel guilty. He doesnt feel guilty when he pulls the bait and switch on you. And he certianly wont feel guilty lying in the arms of the ex wife cackling about how they are getting one over on you.
Author stevensgirl Posted July 26, 2006 Author Posted July 26, 2006 Thank you for the advice. I don't know what to do. I believe that he isn't using me for my money and I believe that he loves me and my children. I know he isn't sleeping with her anymore, he was just too, brutaly honest with me when I found out in the first place and I have asked him since if he's slept with her again. I Love this guy, he's not like other guys. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt as far as the money issue goes, it is ultimately my decision what I spend it on and maybe the advice I got will just make me be a little bit more careful when I am able to spend it. I will still have that money no matter who I am with and quite frankly anyone I meet I will wonder if that is what they want me for. I can't explain it. I love Steven, and I love his children, we are great friends. My biggest problems are hoping I can eventually get over the fact that he had sex with his ex-wife while he was seeing me, and the fact that sex is so infrequent with him. There are other aspects of our relationship and things about him, that if I went into detail about all of it I could write a novel. His ex, she don't want him back, it was a case of "I don't want you but I don't want anyone else to have you either", that is why she was sleeping with him after we started to see each other. I don't even think he really wanted to get back with her, I think she just messed with his head so badly that he wanted her to want him. By her own admission, she would withhold sex from him and they would only be intimate a handful of times a year. She always chose married men to have her affairs with, she's with a married man now. Maybe it was a case of having his cake and eating it too, but now he has the "whole damned bakery and he doesn't seem to want any sweets"!!! Yeah, it was a case of symantics as far as when to come back to me for sex after they had sex, It is mostly my fault for not being perfectly clear with him. I don't remember what I was thinking a year ago but I do vaguely remember him asking if I could handle the fact that they "might end up back together", all I remember is wanting him so badly that I figured I'd deal with the repercussions later. Still, I didn't think they were sleeping together, I should have asked him periodically. Also, I knew that there was the possibility that they he would sleep with her, she had NO idea he was sleeping with me, so I wonder if he was cheating on me or on her, in his mind??? I'm not saying I am completely to blame, he should have decided if he wanted her BEFORE he started seeing me, so he is at fault, too. I don't know if I can forgive and forget about what happened before our relationship was a "committed one", I am trying.This is a good, hard working man, he is an honest man who has been through hell in his lifetime. He grew up dirt poor and even though he isn't a rich man, everything he does have he's worked his a** off for. I can't fault him for wanting a good life and if having a girlfriend who has some money is how luck would have it for him, so be it. I'm really not worried about the money, really. I wouldn't spend all of it and not make sure my kids didn't go without and if I were to pay off his home, I'm smart enough to know that my name should be on the deed, or at the very least wait until we are married, just in case. I can't spend the rest of my life wondering what this guy or that guy is using me for. My first husband used me as his personal punching bag, my second husband used me as a cover for his "gay secret", I need to be happy someday too. I mainly wanted to know how I get over the mistake he made, I know he see's it as a mistake now, it sure has caused enough arguements and I asked him if he had it to do over again would he still have slept with her and his reply was "he wouldn't have been sleeping with either of us til he was sure". All I know is I don't want to walk away, I am willing to give him a chance, I already have. I'm here still, I just want to know what to do with my anger everytime it dawns on me, what happened.
Walk Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Ok... You're adamant you'll stick this out, and if that is what you want then I'll attempt to offer some suggestions on getting past the infidelity. I just want to be clear with you on one thing first. He might not be intentionally using you. Maybe in his heart he truly feels he's not, and wouldn't want to. The thing that bothers me the most is that he doesnt' seem to acknowledge how much he's asked of you, how much you've already given him, and how much more you're willing to give to be with him. Its as though he expects it. For you to just set everything aside and be little miss happy because he chose you over a wife who wouldn't take him back if he begged her. Its not fair to you. I know you feel this is best for you. Better then your past relationships, but I have to be honest with you... I don't see how you are getting even a quarter back from him. Not in relation to what you've given him. Tell me how he's given back to you? What does he do for you that makes you feel this is the best relationship you could have? Does he buy you a lot of things? Or does he treat you like a queen? Does he go out of his way to show you how much he loves you and wants you in his life? How? I'm being serious here... I'd really like to understand. My suggestion as far as the "cheating". You won't "get over it" until he is able to stop making excuses and shifting the blame for his behavior onto you. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself it was your poor communication skills, that small little part of you will always get a little pissed off about it. Not to mention the fact that he should've been clear with you about his intentions, the state of your relationship at the time, and his thoughts and feelings on the matter. You placed your trust and love in him, and he neglected to inform you that he had no intention of discontinuing the wild night s of sex with another woman. You don't just "get over" that. If he were able to admit that the cheating was his fault, that he knew what he was doing, and stop shifting the blame onto you... If he could apologize sincerely and then be able to clearly and thoroughly communicate his interpretations of your words from now on... then maybe you could feel more at peace with what happened. But I don't think he'll ever do that. And if he won't ever do that, then you have no guarantee it won't happen again. Because next time, he'll blame his cheating on something else you did that he felt gave him justification for his actions. He'll imply he didn't understand, you inadvertantly gave him permission, whatever. But he chooses his path. If you think you had any part in that, you're wrong. You can't make someone do anything they didn't want to do. And he wanted to sleep with his exW. He wanted her. All the rest is just justification for it. You have no guarantee he won't do it again if she comes around. You can't build a relationship if you don't trust your partner. And you can't trust someone who won't communicate with you. Who still denies they were wrong and blames his actions on miscommunication by you. If he wants to be with you, then he needs to learn how to ask some questions, clarify and rephrase what he feels your attempting to say, and then ask if his interpretation is correct. If you want this to work, then he needs to show some effort in being a better communicator. We shouldn't have to ask our partner if they slept with another woman lately. Our partner should TALK to us about their actions, and thoughts that will effect the other partner. Anything that could effect the other partner should be discussed in detail. Not hidden, and then it only comes out after a point blank question. That's stupid. That souds like corrupt politicians. "I didn't have sex with that girl." Remember that fiasco? Frickin' semantics on what constitutes "sex". Is your bf going to pull that crap on you too? Maybe now he isn't have "sex" with her, maybe he's defining it slighty different to justify still being intimate with her? How will you ever know? He won't communicate it with you unless you hit the nail on the head with your questions. My bf told me I could have any man I wanted at one time... I suppose I should've assumed that meant I could have sex with any man I wanted. hahaha. Except, I would never want to hurt him like that. And I'm not trying to find loop holes in the system to use to my advantage. That's what your bf did. He found a loop hole and exploited it. Shady.... really shady.
Author stevensgirl Posted July 26, 2006 Author Posted July 26, 2006 Thank you "Walk" this was the reply I needed. I'd like to say, you are very smart and considering the fact that there isn't a whole lot of info about me and Stevens relationship in my post, you have been able to see into my heart and my head well enough to offer me some valuable advice. Ok... Maybe in his heart he truly feels he's not, and wouldn't want to. The thing that bothers me the most is that he doesnt' seem to acknowledge how much he's asked of you, how much you've already given him, and how much more you're willing to give to be with him. Its as though he expects it. I truly do believe he loves me too, and I'm positive he isn't using me for money. As of yet I've not spent a nickle of my money. That isn't a huge concern for me though I will be very careful when the time comes that I start using it. As far as paying off his home, it is a lovely home that I am living in with him and I guess I should have told you that he's owned this home for almost 15 years so he's been paying a mortgage on it for that long. He is willing to let me pay it off but it isn't something that he's asked for, I told him that I want to because it will offer us the security of knowing that should anything bad happen, the house is paid for. Steven was in a terrible accident about 5 years ago, long before I met him and the doctors gave him only hours to live. After months in the hospital and many more months of physical therapy he was able to walk again even though his doctors told him he wouldn't. His greatest fear is that he will lose the use of his legs. We both know that between the damage to his back and his legs someday he won't be able to walk anymore and I don't want that to be a worry for us. I have given a great deal to this man. When I first met him he was such a mess and even though he claimed he didn't, I think he thought that somehow he wasn't attractive enough or good enough and that is why she strayed. I am willing to give my all to him, everything I am and everything I have or will ever have and yes it would be nice if he acknowledged the fact that I am good to him. For you to just set everything aside and be little miss happy because he chose you over a wife who wouldn't take him back if he begged her. Its not fair to you. I agree, its not fair, he made the goof when he made the decision to sleep with his ex, even if he thought I meant what he thought. It isn't fair and the longer I love him the more it hurts that he did what he did. I knew he would chose me over her, I knew eventually he'd see that we were meant to be together. She was begging him to take her back but not until I came into the picture. I thought if I was faithful to him he'd see that I wouldn't hurt him like she did. Unfortunately in the meantime he was hurting me. The thing that bites the most is knowing that at night while I was at home thinking about him and wishing I was with him, he was in the bed with her. Whether they were sleeping or having intercourse, I feel a little bit foolish. The other thing that really bites is if we do get married and if we spend the rest of our lives together I will always be able to say that since we've been together, I've not touched another man nor has another man touched me, I can't say that for him and I'm afraid that years down the road that will come back to bite us in the a**. About a month into our relationship I knew I was falling in love with him and I told him in a letter how much I was looking forward to all the things that life was going to bring us, 4 weeks later and only 2 days after we celebrated my birthday together was the night I found her car in his driveway in the middle of the night, that smarts, too. I know you feel this is best for you. Better then your past relationships, but I have to be honest with you... I don't see how you are getting even a quarter back from him. Not in relation to what you've given him. Tell me how he's given back to you? What does he do for you that makes you feel this is the best relationship you could have? Does he buy you a lot of things? Or does he treat you like a queen? Does he go out of his way to show you how much he loves you and wants you in his life? How? I'm being serious here... I'd really like to understand. It isn't a matter of settling because it is better than my past relationships, it is just the feeling I have that we belong together. No he doesn't buy me a lot of things, in fact he's never bought me anything other than a roaster oven he gave me for Christmas. I don't need "things", though I have complained a few times that it would be nice if he was a little bit more giving. I used to leave him all kinds of notes, cards and little gifts but he never reciprocated so I stopped doing that, I just don't think it is in his nature. No, he doesn't do any of the things you've asked. In fact he's already told me that if I leave he won't chase me, he'll let me go but that is because of what his ex did to him, he chased her and begged her and got kicked in the teeth over and over by her. My guess is that in time when he see's that I am not going to do the things she did, he will treat me better. The one thing that he does do for me is he keeps me from hurting myself, (that is another story in itself). I'm not with him for what he can do for me or what he gives me. My suggestion as far as the "cheating". You won't "get over it" until he is able to stop making excuses and shifting the blame for his behavior onto you. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself it was your poor communication skills, that small little part of you will always get a little pissed off about it. Not to mention the fact that he should've been clear with you about his intentions, the state of your relationship at the time, and his thoughts and feelings on the matter. You placed your trust and love in him, and he neglected to inform you that he had no intention of discontinuing the wild night s of sex with another woman. You don't just "get over" that. If he were able to admit that the cheating was his fault, that he knew what he was doing, and stop shifting the blame onto you... If he could apologize sincerely and then be able to clearly and thoroughly communicate his interpretations of your words from now on... then maybe you could feel more at peace with what happened. But I don't think he'll ever do that. I agree 100% if he would just say yes, it was decietful or cheating or whatever he needed to call it, that would help me get over it. Even if he said it was actually her he was cheating on then I'd be better able to accept it but I do wear most of the blame in his eyes. He wasn't ready for a relationship with someone else when I came along but still, I wanted to be with him and he wanted to see me, too and it was like magnets that kept being drawn to one another but whenever we got pulled apart she would jump right back in and pull him back towards her. It wasn't until she forced him to make a choice that he chose me. I was accepting so many things that would have normally made me go, huh??? and thats what kept it going. Sometimes I wonder if she hadn't made him make a decision if we'd still be in that love triangle. And if he won't ever do that, then you have no guarantee it won't happen again. Because next time, he'll blame his cheating on something else you did that he felt gave him justification for his actions. He'll imply he didn't understand, you inadvertantly gave him permission, whatever. But he chooses his path. If you think you had any part in that, you're wrong. You can't make someone do anything they didn't want to do. And he wanted to sleep with his exW. He wanted her. All the rest is just justification for it. I know that somewhere in his heart he hoped that she'd turn things around, if for no other reason than he prided himself on the fact that 2 of his kids were almost grown and they still had both parents living in the same house, still married. I don't think he'll ever go back to her now. I mentioned having had coffee with her several times in an attempt to be friendly for the sake of the kids. She would spend hours at a time as many as 6 hours telling me things about their marraige, why she cheated, things she did, things that were really none of my business and telling me how bad he was and how much she wanted him back. She'd tell me there was no way he loved me, crap like that and then she'd go back to him and tell him I was saying nasty things about him finally I decided to tape record our "visits" and he got to hear firsthand what she was saying. Of course she denied it all but him having heard it himself, he finally saw through what she was trying to do and that was when he started putting a distance between them. You have no guarantee he won't do it again if she comes around. You can't build a relationship if you don't trust your partner. And you can't trust someone who won't communicate with you. Who still denies they were wrong and blames his actions on miscommunication by you. If he wants to be with you, then he needs to learn how to ask some questions, clarify and rephrase what he feels your attempting to say, and then ask if his interpretation is correct. If you want this to work, then he needs to show some effort in being a better communicator. We shouldn't have to ask our partner if they slept with another woman lately. Agreed Our partner should TALK to us about their actions, and thoughts that will effect the other partner. Anything that could effect the other partner should be discussed in detail. Not hidden, and then it only comes out after a point blank question. That's stupid. Agreed That souds like corrupt politicians. "I didn't have sex with that girl." Remember that fiasco? Frickin' semantics on what constitutes "sex". Is your bf going to pull that crap on you too? Maybe now he isn't have "sex" with her, maybe he's defining it slighty different to justify still being intimate with her? How will you ever know? He won't communicate it with you unless you hit the nail on the head with your questions. My bf told me I could have any man I wanted at one time... I suppose I should've assumed that meant I could have sex with any man I wanted. hahaha. Except, I would never want to hurt him like that. And I'm not trying to find loop holes in the system to use to my advantage. That's what your bf did. He found a loop hole and exploited it. Shady.... really shady. In all the years I was married I never cheated, never even thought about it because I was bound by my vows AND because I know firsthand what it does to a family (both of my parents did it to each other and their next spouses). I also would never hurt someone like that, that is my point, I am so hurt especially now that I am so much in love with him and I can't undo it so I need to figure out how to get over it. I guess the best thing is to realize that I'll never get over it and just go on with our lives and do my best to forget about it and hope that it doesn't pop into my head too often.
Walk Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 I didn't mean he had to buy you stuff to show he loved/appreciated you. But not knowing what would show you that appreciation, I threw in the "buying stuff" thing. For me, my bf shows he appreciates me because when he hears me getting up in the morning, he makes me a cup of coffee and has it all ready for me by the time I stumble into the living room. Or scouring book stores to find me a magazine on editing photos with a specific program. Just things that show appreciation. And it's great you want to give to him so freely. But I do know that as a relationship develops, if the other person doesn't give as freely, discord occurs. You start to feel resentful. Unappreciated. And I think that sometimes people unintentionally allow a partner to slip into the belief that they are giving enough simple because at the beginning of the relationship we're happy just to be with them. But after a while, just being there, isnt enough to keep a relationship going. Can I ask a question though.. How do you know he's the one? Why is this belief so strong? A) I'd like to know because I wonder how people determine this. I have never been so confident in that belief. B) I wonder if a small bit isn't that in the past you were abandoned with no opportunity to win the fight to get their love back, and if this time you felt it would make up for the loss by "winning" his love from someone else. If it was an attempt to heal yourself from the pain caused by your ex's chosing others over you. This time, you won, he chose you.. and therefore you believe it shows true love like you've been searching for? You don't really have to answer B. But I wonder why this man is worth so much to you that you would accept the blame, condon his past cheating, and put forth such extreme effort to keep his attention even if it means spending six hours with an exW who would disgust even a prostitute. You give so much of yourself to him. Does he give the same?
Author stevensgirl Posted July 27, 2006 Author Posted July 27, 2006 Hello again Walk, I wish you knew how much you have my brain working overtime!!!! I didn't mean he had to buy you stuff to show he loved/appreciated you. But not knowing what would show you that appreciation, I threw in the "buying stuff" thing. I'm starting to not know what it would take to show me he appreciates me. Tonight wasn't one of those things someone would do to show appreciation. I'm not even sure how much longer this is going to last so much of this is a moot point anyway. I decided to take a job the other day so that I'd have something to do other than just cook and clean house, she haas the kids for the week (she gets 4 weeks visitaion with them in the summer)and my own kids are at band camp, school starts in a week so I thought "great idea, get out meet some people and not feel so much like a hired hand around here". Steven came home tonight and informed me his ex-Wife will be dropping the youngest off to me tomorrow at 6:30 a.m. cause she has no babysitter. When I questioned this because I was supposed to work, he got mad at me again and told me that "he told me not to get a jbb yet because he knew as soon as I did something would happen to screw up his plans". When I asked him why my schedule had to change to suit hers considering she only gave 12 hours notice he said that him and his daughter were "in the middle of this", like it is my responsibility to be a daycare provider for her. Today she didn't send her kids to band camp with lunch so it was my place to send extras for them, it is my responsibility to make sure they eat when they are in her care? Don't get me wrong, I love those kids and wouldn't want to see them hungry but if she wanted her visitation isn't it her place to see they are cared for? No, I am the bad guy because I said i need more than 12 hours (overnight) notice if I am to watch the kids during her visitation. For me, my bf shows he appreciates me because when he hears me getting up in the morning, he makes me a cup of coffee and has it all ready for me by the time I stumble into the living room. Or scouring book stores to find me a magazine on editing photos with a specific program. Just things that show appreciation. The more I think about what you said the more I realize I have cause for concern. Occasionally, he'll make me a cup of coffee but no, I've never gotten a card or note or little gift for no reason, which would be nice once in a while. Valentines day he gave me a card and told me "to say this is nothing is an understatement", not a pretty, romantic card, actually a picture of a scrabble board that spelled out "Love ya". Mothers day, he didn't bother to at least make sure my own children got to the store to buy me a card but he made sure he got one for his ex, how I know?? Cause I was there with him while he picked it out. No, he doesn't make me feel pretty, in fact he points out every attractive woman he see's and in fact will let me know which ones he finds "sexually attractive". I'm not beautiful, I'm not plain, I'm not ugly. He says beauty is skin deep, once a long time ago he told me I was "captivating", that's as close as I've come to having him make me feel special. And it's great you want to give to him so freely. But I do know that as a relationship develops, if the other person doesn't give as freely, discord occurs. You start to feel resentful. Unappreciated. And I think that sometimes people unintentionally allow a partner to slip into the belief that they are giving enough simple because at the beginning of the relationship we're happy just to be with them. But after a while, just being there, isnt enough to keep a relationship going. No, you are right, tonight I told him that I wasn't sure where my place was in his world, I don't have even the benefit of being his wife, just the responsibilities. He reached into his pocket and took out a pair of little, silver fortune cookies I gave him a long time ago and asked me if that was enough to show my "place in his life", I reached in my pockets and pulled out nothing and he wispered to me "my place in his life is beside him". Can I ask a question though.. How do you know he's the one? Why is this belief so strong? I was so sure for the longest time, mainly I just had a feeling, that "feeling is starting to dissipate, rapidly. I just fell head over heels for this man who seemed so good and so kind, he paid me so much attention at first, now when I tell him things that are important and he forgets he says he didn't hear me. The more I ponder on some of your questions the more I wonder if I DON"T deserve better than this. A) I'd like to know because I wonder how people determine this. I have never been so confident in that belief. B) I wonder if a small bit isn't that in the past you were abandoned with no opportunity to win the fight to get their love back, and if this time you felt it would make up for the loss by "winning" his love from someone else. If it was an attempt to heal yourself from the pain caused by your ex's chosing others over you. This time, you won, he chose you.. and therefore you believe it shows true love like you've been searching for? Nah, I just wanted him. It wasn't a matter of winning or losing, I just fell in love and wanted him. I thought he'd be good for me and I knew I'd be good for him. You don't really have to answer B. But I wonder why this man is worth so much to you that you would accept the blame, condon his past cheating, and put forth such extreme effort to keep his attention even if it means spending six hours with an exW who would disgust even a prostitute. Six hours, at a time, I have about 20 hours of recorded conversations with her and umpteen conversations that weren't recorded. I don't know why I went with her or listened to her, I guess at first I felt bad for her and wanted to put her mind at ease that her children were safe with me, that I would never hurt them. That's how it started, it continued because he wanted me to record everything and anything he could use against her if she tried to get custody of the kids away from him. Tonight I found out that she told her middle son, who is 14 that her and daddy will be getting back together and getting re-married, that scared me enough to tell him that IF he's using me I have a mean streak a mile long!!! You give so much of yourself to him. Does he give the same? No he doesn't, I do love him don't get me wrong. I've thought up until now that once he got over what she did to him that things would change for us, maybe he'd start treating me like I was or am special to him. This whole thing about us getting married, it has come up over and over again, he knows that it really hurt my feelings when he asked me to marry him, then took it back. I've told him I don't need a fancy ring, don't need one at all. I don't need a fancy proposal, just a simple I love you will you marry me. We didn't get to take the trip he wanted to take, he had a special place in mind to propose, so what if you love me and want to marry me what difference does it matter where we are. Could be on vacation, at the beach, lying in bed, who cares. My ex-husband made a big deal out of his proposal, we hade a $15,000.00 wedding and look where it got me. I just don't know anymore. He knew how pissed off I was because I called my new job and quit, later he asks me did I do or say something to make you mad?? Duh..... It isn't that I don't want to watch his kids, it would just have been nice if he'd said, "let me check with (me) to make sure she doesn't already have plans". It is like I play second fiddle to her in every aspect of our lives. Anyhow, just venting again.... Can't sleep cause I know what I'll see on the back of my eyelids, "my boyfriend making love to someone else".......
john2776 Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 I really hate reading stories like this. This isn't some fiction novel, but your real life. It really makes me sad to see what you are going through. Let me be clear - this is not a love story, its a tragedy waiting for the final scene. Please get out of this relationship. I don't need to list the reasons - your own thoughts and Walks questions and advice do that already.
Author stevensgirl Posted July 27, 2006 Author Posted July 27, 2006 Yeah, this is my life. I wish it were a novel, I'd have stopped reading a long time ago!!! Funny thing is I try my hardest to live right, not hurt anyone and this is as good as it gets!! It is an eye opener to hear a mans point of view. I really hate reading stories like this. This isn't some fiction novel, but your real life. It really makes me sad to see what you are going through. Let me be clear - this is not a love story, its a tragedy waiting for the final scene. Please get out of this relationship. I don't need to list the reasons - your own thoughts and Walks questions and advice do that already.
Guest Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 I agree with all the advice here and the opinions of the respondents to this situation. I cannot emphasise strongly enough how dangerous this situation is for the poster and her children. Their entire future and security is at stake. It never fails to amaze me how heartless some people can be. It truly is heartrending hearing the turmoil spelt out in these posts. How a person so capable of feeling and needing love is abused and used. But that said it is actually quite easy to get out of - in a practical sense that is. Move yourself and your children out of the house - to a family home or friends place temporarily and then seek rented accommodation. You owe this man NOTHING. Not even an explanation. Your first duty is to your children . Keep this in mind as your focus and do whatever is needed to provide a safe, easy and drama free environment.
Trimmer Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 Well, just in case the others haven't talked you into slowing things down a bit, I have a suggestion on the issue of paying off his house and the credit card debt... If you do contribute $70,000 into this situation, you should own a portion of the equity in that house proportional to your contribution. In other words, if the fair market value of the house is currently $210,000, then you have "bought in" to 33% of the equity. If the current home value is $140,000, then you have purchased yourself 50% of the equity. Now, I don't know if it differs from state to state, but in at least one of the states where I have owned property, you can do this quite easily by recording a "quit claim." In order to specify proportional ownership, you would specify the vesting of the title something as follows: <his name> and <her name> as Tenants In Common as to a 67% undivided interest for <his name> and a 33% undivided interest for <her name>. It's something like that. Either a real estate attorney can help you, or possibly an officer at a title company can help you draw up the new deed and get it recorded. Now by doing this, at least you haven't just given him the $70k as a gift (which, incidentally, is large enough that he would probably technically owe income tax on it...) Instead, you have purchased equity in real estate, your interest is officially and legally recorded, and to your delight, the dollar value of your proportion will grow as the house appreciates - it's truly an investment. And how does that extra $20k figure in there? Essentially, to buy equity in the house, you put $70k in his hands; he uses $50k to pay off the rest of the loan, and the other $20k for whatever he wants - in this case, to pay off the other debt that you have no connection with. Whatever he uses the other $20k for, you should receive appropriate value for your investment: a proportion of the home equity relative to the full $70k. One other interesting point that this process might reveal: Is his wife still on title to the house? If so, I would be very wary. If she needs to stay on the title, that's possible (although icky...), but if you still decide to go forward, I would still stand firm on your owning a proportion of the equity equal to your full $70k investment. On the other hand, if you see that she is still on the title as an owner of this house you are proposing to pay off, wouldn't that make the situation seem pretty wierd? Red flag for sure...
Trimmer Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 I've thought up until now that once he got over what she did to him that things would change for us, maybe he'd start treating me like I was or am special to him. Recipe for disaster: marry someone in spite of warning signs, not working out those difficulties FIRST, figuring that you, or fate, or luck, or something else will change your spouse to become more to your liking later. How many times do we hear this scenario as the setup to a crash and burn?
Guest Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 You know the more i read of what he has told you the more suspicious I become. Firstly - are they really divorced? Do you have proof of this? Secondly - what is all this about the accident? Do you know whether this really happened? Do you know any people who know this pair and their history? I think it is prudent to start investigating a little and getting info and feedback from other people. People do talk you know.
Walk Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 he got mad at me again and told me that "he told me not to get a job yet because he knew as soon as I did something would happen to screw up his plans". When I asked him why my schedule had to change to suit hers considering she only gave 12 hours notice he said that him and his daughter were "in the middle of this", The more I think about what you said the more I realize I have cause for concern. ... Mothers day, he didn't bother to at least make sure my own children got to the store to buy me a card but he made sure he got one for his ex.... No, he doesn't make me feel pretty, in fact he points out every attractive woman he see's and in fact will let me know which ones he finds "sexually attractive". No, you are right, tonight I told him that I wasn't sure where my place was in his world, I don't have even the benefit of being his wife, just the responsibilities. He reached into his pocket and took out a pair of little, silver fortune cookies I gave him a long time ago and asked me if that was enough to show my "place in his life", I reached in my pockets and pulled out nothing ..now when I tell him things that are important and he forgets he says he didn't hear me. ...it continued because he wanted me to record everything and anything he could use against her All of the ones I highlighted... I keep hearing "Him". His needs in life come first, his wants come first, his thoughts come first. Even the symbolism of the fortune cookies... He has the reminders and proof of your love, yet you have nothing. And if that signifies your "place" in his life... hmm... You give, he takes. You get nothing in return. He can't even place enough importance on you to even remember something that is important to you. My exH could never bother to remember the important things either. I chalked it up to poor communication on my part, bad memory on his... everything and anything but what it was. He just didn't care to remember. He had a mind like a steal trap, and could site verbatim a conversation he'd had 2 months ago... but couldnt' remember that I'd asked him to go to my parents house with me that day. Or that I'd really needed new glasses. Or that my car absolutely needed to be fixed.. My bf now... wow. even an off hand comment about thinking I would like to try my hand at drawing... My birthday rolled around and he bought me a million art supplies. I once, in passing, mentioned a museum exhibit in another city that I would love to see. A week and a half later, he surprises me with a trip there. The things I want, or need in my life are placed at an even higher level of importance then the things he wants and needs in life. My exH put me below his wants and needs. And his "forgetting" what I needed was just an outward sign of his true feelings. I'm not sure I'm clear on how long you two have been officially a couple. But I'm under the impression it's far less than a year? Like 6 months or so? Pointing out the "sexually attractive" women he see's... I'm floored by this. God, I feel awful for what you're going through. To feel undesired when you're attempting to arouse him, only to have him point out other women who would do it for him. All I can think is it must be killing your self-esteem and confidence. Like he wants to tear you down inside. Crush you so you won't have the strength to leave him. Instead of attempting to keep you by showing his appreciation that you chose him, seeing that love you give as a gift, he insults you or gets mad that you got a job because it didn't benefit him. Knocks you down when you offer yourself to him sexually. And finds fault in you for what is wrong in him. What's worse, you seem like such a wonderful person. Willing to help others at any cost to yourself. You treat his children as if they were your own, making sure they are fed and well cared for. Even though the biological parent can't seem to find the energy to do so. You give up any semblence of your own life to ensure the safety of someone elses child, simply because some other woman is too busy to care for her own daughter. Don't undervalue yourself so much. Men out there would die to have a woman like you by their side. Someone who they would give the world to in order to be with you. One of the things I've learned in life is that if you give too much of yourself too often, without recieving the same in return... you end up empty. You look back and feel you wasted your those months, or years, being slave and servant to a person who never appreciated it. He'd be fine on his own. A relationship should be a team effort. Not so one sided as yours. Both partners working together to ensure the others happiness. You put forth so much energy to ensure his, but where's his effort? Even just a simple "thank you, I appreciate that you gave up your job for my child". Did he even say thank you for that? Give you a hug and tell you he appreciated you? Did he find some time to maybe cook you a meal that evening to let you know that he appreciates your sacrifice FOR him? Anything at all? Or was the "your place is beside me" cover it for him? Letting you know that "Your place is watching my kids, doing my housework, taking care of my problems, and I'm not even going to get you a mothers day card for your effort..." He couldn't even acknowledge that you had a desire to work, to find some enjoyment outside of his home. Otherwise he would've known why you were upset about having to quit your job. Did he even ask if it was important to you, or just get upset when he found out he wasn't center of the universe?
Guest Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 So what are you going to do? I've seen the other issue you've raised about the sex. Really that is just a symptom of the abuse here. The withholding strategy. You cannot gloss over and fixate on this to find some remedy. You cannot change other people - you can only change yourself. You are putting yourself up for this continuing abuse. You must stop and protect yourself. No one else will do it for you. You went years without any physical love from your husband. And you put up with that. Did you ever question this? Or didn't you think you were good enough to have a happy and fulfilled life? I would like to know now that you've had this excellent advice what are YOU going to do?
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