Can a fellow chick explain to me why so many women are so desperate to get married?

July 19, 2006

I mean, I don't get it. Most of us now have our independence. We have the capacity to get educated, hold down jobs, to earn as much as men. We can have kids on our terms, if at all. WE can own property, vote, drive, have sex and use contraception and do whatever the hell we want. And yet so many of us are desperate to enter into an archaic institute that is designed to allow a father to get rid of his daughters by making them the personal property and obedient slave of other men.

The facts and stats speak for themselves. Single women are happier than married women, while married men are happier than single men. Single women live longer than their married sisters, while married men live longer than their bachelor brothers. Single women are more successful in all therr endeavours, men don't start really scaling the tree till they pick up a wife and kids.

Then their's life experiences - speak to your friends. Most living together couples share the household chores equally. Once they get married, the man pretty much stops. Most living together couples have regualr sex; many married couples do not. Most women who live with a man control their own money, buy stuff for themselves; once they are married they defer to their husbands (and once they have kids and can't work for a while, they have no choice but to anyway). Not of us seens a man to support us anymore (or at least we shouldn't), so why put ourselves in that position.

Yeah, marriage guarantees security. But it also breads complacency and ingratitude (on both sides). As modern women, we look be looking to build a new kind of relationship between equals, not desperately and pathetically chasing and begging men to let us enter into the bondage of slavery under which our ancestors suffered. I just don't get it...

(Btw, I live with a man I love very much. We've made all kinds of sacrifices for each other, including moving for jobs, and buying a house together. I tell him I love him more than anything, but marriage? That's a humiliation I won't suffer for anyone).

July 19, 2006

I suppose I do not feel that marriage is any type of bondage/slavery. I wouldn't have gotten married if I felt that my husband would stop treating me with respect and equality. Granted we've only been married for 2 months, so while I can't guarantee that he won't I have no reason to believe he will either.

I feel that each couple has to define what marriage means to them. For us, it's a committment to join our lives and become a team. And a promise to stick it out when the partnership feels more like work than anything else. We solidified it legally and used the wedding to become our own family. Also, an important part of our wedding (at least to us) was that not only did we make a committment to each other, but our families made a committment to take each of us into the respective family. Our friends and family also made a committment to support our relationship in every way. It was a way to let our friends and family know that we were now a team. We worked with our minister to make sure that the wedding reflected our thoughts and values. There was no "obey" in our vows. In fact, we even went as far as to have her change one of her statements about God creating the institute of marriage to join man and woman blah blah blah....because my husband believes strongly that same-sex couples be allowed to marry. We went over the ceremony with a fine tooth comb to make sure we were serious about it. Who cares what the definition of marriage was, I only care about what our definition is.

July 19, 2006

No sorry I can't! But I'm supposing it must be some kind of insecurity/desire for social status/protection or religious affirmation

July 19, 2006

I guess you might also like to know that I am a very independent person. I can (and do) support myself financially, am highly educated, and plan on keeping my career. I don't see how having a permanent life partner will change any of that?

Yes, one day I will want children, and we will do it on OUR terms because they will be OUR kids. I strongly believe that it's ridiculous that women expect men to be equal partners in raising children but expect to keep a monopoly on the "terms" of having them.

July 19, 2006

it also breads complacency and ingratitude (on both sides). As modern women, we look be looking to build a new kind of relationship between equals, not desperately and pathetically chasing and begging men to let us enter into the bondage of slavery under which our ancestors suffered. I just don't get it...

it all depends on the maturity level of the people involved. If there's a healthy respect, a healty give and take, good communication, a marriage is less to fall into that trap that you've described. No marriage is perfect, but not all marriages are crappy the way you describe them!

why do women want to marry? Most likely because they want legal, societal and religious ties to that person they've entered into an emotional commitment with. And there's nothing wrong with that.

July 19, 2006

The facts and stats speak for themselves. Single women are happier than married women, while married men are happier than single men. Single women live longer than their married sisters, while married men live longer than their bachelor brothers. Single women are more successful in all therr endeavours, men don't start really scaling the tree till they pick up a wife and kids.

I'd like to see the research to support these statements and the other claims you made. And I'm not only saying that to point out that you shouldn't make unbacked claims. I really would like to look at any study that says single women are happier and live longer.

Aside from that, I'm still undecided on the concept of marriage. Since you asked why women are desperate to get married as opposed to those who just want to, I'll address that. I think those women still somehow place their worth on whether or not they have a man. They've been conditioned by society and/or pressured by family and friends to make their main goal in life be to get married. I think they believe that marriage will solve all their problems (which it won't).

There are also those who want children and start to get desperate because they fear that if they don't quickly get married, they'll be too old to have children.

There are also women who don't desperately want to get married, but they do want to be married. For these people the motivators could include: religious reasons, legal issues, security, wanting to uphold tradition, and seeing marriage as the normal/expected thing to do without questioning whether or not it was right for them.

Those are the reasons I can think of. I'm sure there are more though.

I don't think marriage is bad, and I don't think most people see it as a type of slavery. It doesn't matter what it used to be. It's how the people in the relationship view it. It's right for some people, but not for others.

July 19, 2006

I want to get married so I can provide a stable family life for children someday. If i didn't want children I prolly would never get married.

July 20, 2006

wow, i dont even know where to begin. i first of all found your post very offensive. why is it humiliating to make a public, permanent commitment to the person you love? you make all wives sound like stupid doormats and all husbands sound like ogres. i know many many married couples nothing like the grim scene you described. i know married women who still have their careers and married men who do most of the work raising the kids. you say we can have children on our own terms, when and if we want. what about the father? is he not important at all? isnt it his kid too? or are men just a means to an end in having children, a tool to enable a woman to have HER child and then ditch him? marriage is NOT slavery. and i have no idea where you're getting your "facts" from, but id love to see. marriage is a partnership meant to last a lifetime. if i get married of course i will be accountable to my husband w/ spending money, taking trips, etc., but he will also be accountable to me for the same things. if we have children they will be OUR children, not MY children. why do i want to get married? i want someone to share the rest of my life with, and who is willing to permanently commit himself to me, and i to him. i want us to be a family, not just two people residing in the same house. i will be PROUD to have my father walk me down the aisle and give me away. not because im his property, but because i am moving from being a child in his household to the co-head of my own household, and i will be PROUD to have him give his blessing to that transition. if i stay home with our kids while my husband goes to work and has a career it will be because i choose to, not because i am obligated to or forced to. THERE IS NO SHAME IN BEING A STAY AT HOME MOM. THERE IS NO HUMILIATION IN MAKING A PUBLIC PROMISE TO REMAIN COMMITTED TO YOUR PARTNER FOR LIFE. MARRIAGE IS A BOND OF LOVE, NOT SLAVERY.

July 20, 2006

LOL, if I was asked marriage now, I would be freaking out, running the up the hill before rejecting the offer. I don't see how can some people get marry at such an early age such as 18-early 20's. I'm 19 and in no way I'm considering marriage yet, but yea will someday.

Only, before I were to get marriage, I would want someone who also does NOT want children, kids just aren't for me.

July 20, 2006

We have the capacity to get educated, hold down jobs, to earn as much as men. We can have kids on our terms, if at all. WE can own property, vote, drive, have sex and use contraception and do whatever the hell we want. And yet so many of us are desperate to enter into an archaic institute that is designed to allow a father to get rid of his daughters by making them the personal property and obedient slave of other men.

As these things have evolved in society so has marriage. By marring, a woman does not have to give up on having a career or education. Marriage is no longer used as a tool for a father to get rid of his daughter, just as men no longer expect a dowry. A married woman today isn't considered a slave or property of her husband, she is actually protected from such treatment by many laws and social norms.

July 20, 2006

"A married woman today isn't considered a slave or property of her husband". Amarried woman in fact should not be " considered a slave or property of her husband" anytime anywhere not just today or tomorrow.

July 20, 2006

They have an old law on the books that says in Michigan the husband owns his wifes hair and she can't cut it without his permission.

When I got married, I had a hard time with the idea. I felt as though I was signing away my rights to myself. I didn't want to change my name. Didn't like the idea that I was suddenly a nameless Mrs. John Doe. And I threw a fit when the preacher wanted to say that the father was "giving" me to my new husband. Like I was property.

I was the one who had property and money, not my new husband. Yet he got everything in the divorce. (4 years later) I had invested hundreds of thousands into "his" toys and building a house, and after our divorce was finalized, he ended up with a free $200,000 in his pocket. I was left with a used car and some clothes.

In addition, I had to legally change my name back to my maiden name. Go through the hassel of changing my drivers license, bills, credit cards, social security information, work, school, etc. I stil occasionally find something with his name on it that I've forgotten to change, and it's been 3 years since the divorce was finalized.

He didn't have to do anything but sign a piece of paper. No hassel with his name. No problems with work due to confusion on your name. Go to work one day as Mr. Doe, Next day... nothing changed except he doesn't have the little wife at home anymore.

However... I learned something from all this, and didn't see it until long after I got the divorce decree. I never trusted my exH. I couldn't admit this even to myself, but he was a selfish son of a bytch, deep down selfish. And his true colors shown through after the marriage. I think subconciously I knew this, but refused to see it. Instead, I projected all of my un-formed feelings onto the institution of marriage. The feeling of losing myself, feeling as though I were property, something to acquire and use to his discretion.

It wasn't the insitution of marriage... it was the man I married.

The man I'm with now.. I would have no problems marrying, even if the word "obey" were in the vows. He's shown over and over that he isn't going to take advantage of me. He respects my decisions, respects my property, and doesn't put any pressure on me to do things his way. If he wants extra toys, he works extra hours to afford them. He doesnt' come running to me and coherce me into buying them for him. He doesn't use my love to manipulate me for his greed.

So before you go spouting off about your freedom and independence... take a good long look at the man you are so adamantly against binding your life to. It might not be the institution of marriage that bothers you as much as your partners real views. Marriage is binding, and if you don't have a partner who is 100% with you on equality and fairness, then don't marry him. But there are still good men out there who don't believe "obey" means slavery, but a shared responsibility to put our partners wishes first.

Marriage isn't as corrupt as you make it out to be, people are corrupt. I married the wrong guy, and there's countless examples of others doing the same thing.

July 20, 2006

That sometimes happens. Good that you have a good husband to compensate for your past sufferings with your ex:) . Congratularions

July 20, 2006

A single woman holds less value in the eyes of many. I suppose that many still look at themselves this way along with others looking at them this way.

Many women need the world to know that a man wants them.

Now that is not my view but the view of many I believe, as they nag others about getting married. If you are not married there is indeed something wrong with you. :lmao:

July 20, 2006

as a fellow "female" chick I can see how society (i.e. men, women, parents, everything) puts it out there that when a woman is married she is wanted and deemed more valuable and attractive. I can still see that and sometimes I saw my friends that were married as the envy of everyone and sometimes I do envy them but I only envy the ones that have a solid relationship and have demonstrated things within their relationship that I find worthy of marriage.

I for one, would like to be married one day to establish a deeper bond than anything w/one person. I believe in God and that that is his gift to adults (the sanctity) of marriage. Since I do want to have children as well I believe, very firmly that children need to have parents that are married. In my eyes, if the parents are married then they are bound to that union and to those children and don't have the easiness of walking away or not adhering to their responsibilities of raising their children. If you aren't married and one of the parent's leaves or starts something w/someone else well by not being married you just made it easy for them to commit to someone else.

Children need role models, positive ones and I personally have come to dislike very much the whole idea of people having children out of wedlock. Everyone just has sex and then they think of the consequences of that child they will possibly bare. Women get married for a whole slew of reasons, some good some not but don't knock marriage unless you've tried it. You seem to have such a negative spin on marriage yet you don't sound like you've ever been married.

Sorry that you have such horrible views about it. It works for some and not for others. Give some women some credit in the fact that they want a bond w/another and that that may mean to them getting married. Marriage isn't a bad thing!

July 22, 2006

"Children need role models, positive ones and I personally have come to dislike very much the whole idea of people having children out of wedlock. "

Those beliefs stem from religion. Some of us are not religious whatsoever so it doesn't really make much of a difference whether it is in "wedlock" or not.

Positive role models are parents who latch onto eachother just because they had a baby together? Positive is getting married just for the child and then divorced soonafter because you didn't even resolve any of your issues before marriage?

I think positive is being in love and there for eachother through thick and thin, whether you have a stupid piece of paper or not. Moreso, without the paper means more.

Men stay in beat up marriages only because they don't want to deal with messes, want things simple and are afraid of losing ALL THAT THEY HAVE in a marriage. Is it really that surprising that women file for divorce more often when they have the most to gain? I don't think so.

July 24, 2006

Why not marriage? Why not aspire to the greatest human expression of a love commitment to another in a public spiritual ceremony? It's what separates us from the animal kingdom- the consciousness to make a commitment, have intent, have hope, and stick with it. We have the ability to percieve the future and mold and create it.

I know our culture is riddled by divorce- but what is beautiful,particularly, in us women, is our faith, belief, that things will work out and the relationship will persist. I think that's why it is particularly disheartening to hear your strong assertions against it- it shows such pessimism- precisely what this world does not need. I have learned in these past few years that the public- familial support of one's love relationship is a crucial part to it lasting-and very comforting in my eyes. It's like your family or his family ( since traditionally you take or add his name to yours) has a vested interest in you staying together because they care about their reputation, family name. After all we're all not living on our own little islands- i.e. that's why we belong to this site, peer pressure is huge- bigger than you think...and marriage is taken more seriously by all of us, than cohabitating- must be accepted- that's the culture we live in.

I live in Latin America for this reason. I was in a cohabitating relationship in NYC and thought we were going to marry, but after 7 years I finally woke up- I had no family support, my friends were in their own situations confused too, and I felt so alone in my life. -

Maybe you think I am weak, but I need a society, a faith, a culture, around me that gives some guidelines to an adult man and woman on how to navigate. Here where I live, I see the attempt to save traditional values- that overall for the majority of people worked for centuries. And I love that 95% of us believe in the same set of ideas- ( For me, things just got out of hand, crazy, deviant, gross, stupid, confusing, in what is acceptable in "love relationships where I was living).

There's nothing perfect, but heterosexual marriage is pretty damn good idea that has a proven past as being a good thing for most humans in most cultures who want to have children.

i had years to think about this- so that's my reason for wnating to be married.

July 24, 2006

.

The facts and stats speak for themselves. Single women are happier than married women, while married men are happier than single men. Single women live longer than their married sisters, while married men live longer than their bachelor brothers. Single women are more successful in all therr endeavoursQUOTE]

I've read these statistics also years ago. I am married now but when I was single I was very, very happy and looked fabulous. I guess when you have no one to worry about but yourself you take extra good care of you and that would ultimately make you live longer. I guess for all the OW on this forum who are not married if they wait long enough they will out live the MW and eventually you will end up with your MM.

I am glad I found my h but I don't understand why women are crawling all over each other to get married either. I use to wonder that when I was single too.

July 24, 2006

I actually thought many of the same things when I was young. It wasn't marriage I was against as much as it was the patriarchy of society that values men more than women. I never thought I'd find a man strong enough to marry me and treat me as an equal so I was intent on being single.

Then I met my H and realized I just wanted to be with him. I like him as a person. We have the same values, mutual respect (most days:cool:).

Now here I am 25 years married. Did I lose myself as someone else's property? Not a chance. Have I made some compromises? You bet. Most of which I do not regret, and the ones I do I have only myself to blame.

Why did I get married? Society is based on vows of mutual care to and for one another. I don't believe in treating people like disposable razors--good for awhile, but when they get a bit dull, it's time to toss them out. I believe we're on the planet for a purpose that outlives us even though we may not understand what that is, so there's more to life than just what makes me happy at the moment. Marriage is not just about the two people involved; it's about societal sanction and blessing, which is why same-sex marriage is a big deal. We need each other, for we're social animals.

In my case, we have two amazing children whom we're raising in a stable family instead of an ever-changing situation. In the stability of a home people are free to pursue higher things beyond wondering about where they're going to sleep tonight. This is important to me and enough to keep me committed to making marriage work when I'd rather not sometimes.

But honestly, why anyone would be desperate to marry is beyond me--indicative of a dysfunction that will not bode well in any type of relationship. Fear of loneliness? A desire to have another take care of us like Mommy/Daddy?

July 25, 2006

LOL, at last. A woman not incredibly obsessed with marriage and desperate to "do the paperwork"!

Will you marry me?!?!?! j/k

Ok, I'm not a "fellow chick", but on a serious note, I don't know either, really. Your question is a question that has baffled modern men for decades (most of whom, believe it or not, are fairly well intentioned and not just looking for someone to dominate and do their laundry ). I don't completely agree with your definition of marriage, as it sounds pretty bleak (probably even bleaker than it usually is), but I have also noticed that many women do have a marriage fixation (i.e. "We've been dating for 2 whole months, and we've slept together, let's start talking about marriage now. Right now. What's the problem? Don't you think you would want to be married to me?" - ugh).

I think most of it can be attributed to instinct (male and female), tradition, religion, and finances. Traditionally, for millions of years, human beings have generally "mated for life", and "marriage" is society's way of officially recognizing that union. There is also serious pressure to marry in many religions. Often, young people trying to figure out what to do with their lives travel in the circles of people that subscribe to those religions which serves to increase this peer pressure. There are also the obvious financial considerations.

Marriage is not really an evil, or male domanant thing either, and your description makes it sound that way, but I do agree that lots of people get married for the wrong reasons, and probably way too soon. Both parties in today's modern world bring something (careers, salaries, life experience, skills, etc.) to a marriage, and if it can't be a partnership of equals, it really shouldn't be entered into IMO.

For many guys (myself included), talking about marriage seriously within the first say 60 days of a relationship is a bit of a turnoff.

That said, if marriage is what a person really wants, for whatever reason, and their partner (man or woman) doesn't seem interested in that a year or so into a serious relationship, you may want to re-evaluate whether the relationship is going where you want/need it to go.

My thoughts? For some people, marriage is a great thing. For myself, I am undecided. I think if I found the right woman, and everything just felt right, I could get married - but I am in no hurry, and I will never do the "close enough" thing and marry someone just because my (or her) biological clock is "ticking". If it happens, and feels completely right, it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

Bottom line?

1. Marriage is not evil.

2. Marriage is not for everybody.

3. When it happens, it should be between equals.

4. Don't be in any hurry, and you might find someone you just can't imagine life without - that, and only that, is what marriage is for.

July 31, 2006

the traditional way of life needs some upgrading. I lost the love of my life because I didn't want to move in with him and he took that as a lack of commitment (we live 2 blocks from each other). I want to have my cake and eat it too! I am a divorced 41 year old woman with a 14 year old daughter. I own my own home and am financially independent. What the hell? I would love to have an exclusive permanent relationship with a man I love and respect - but - keep my own home and finances. Does anyone feel this way?

July 31, 2006

so very true. You are wise to not blame all of mankind for marrying the wrong man. You are also a very lucky for having found the right one.

July 31, 2006

i want to for the big party and as a sort of milestone in my life

July 31, 2006

I think positive is being in love and there for eachother through thick and thin, whether you have a stupid piece of paper or not. Moreso, without the paper means more.
Men stay in beat up marriages only because they don't want to deal with messes, want things simple and are afraid of losing ALL THAT THEY HAVE in a marriage. Is it really that surprising that women file for divorce more often when they have the most to gain? I don't think so.

Seriously? Perhaps that "stupid piece of paper" would make a person try harder if things weren't going as planned. Your method sure does make it simple... when the s**t hits the fan, as we all know it can, your guy gets to walk away clean and free. That "mess" is what often times makes couples seek therapy, correct their mistakes and give their marriage the attention and support it needs.

On a side-note... I find it very interesting that you would actually say that an unwed relationship means more than a marriage. Hmmmm. By your standards, you have a stronger relationship than, say... my parents who've been together since they were 15 and married for the past 33 years? Good to know...

August 2, 2006

I have read somewhere the suicide rate is higher for single people.

Suicide is much lower for married couples.

Not advocating marriage or condoning it. Just ask that everyone spend LOTS of time with that person before doing the deal. ..

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Can a fellow chick explain to me why so many women are so desperate to get married?

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