selfless love is just an illusion

July 29, 2006

I think it was a good idea to tell her to read what you've written. It saves you having to say it all and she can see all the difficulties you're having. I think if it were me, I'd feel better knowing your thoughts. It's not knowing what's going on in someone's head that's scary. It's great that you'll see a counsellor and that you're talking to her. I'm sure it's hard but as with any fear we face, I'm willing to bet it will get easier.

If you'd kept her away, you could have built her up into a monster in your head. She's not. She's just a human - troubled, maybe not saintlike in her strength (heck, who is?) and sorry for what she's done.

July 29, 2006

I think it was a good idea to tell her to read what you've written. It saves you having to say it all and she can see all the difficulties you're having. I think if it were me, I'd feel better knowing your thoughts. It's not knowing what's going on in someone's head that's scary. It's great that you'll see a counsellor and that you're talking to her. I'm sure it's hard but as with any fear we face, I'm willing to bet it will get easier.

If you'd kept her away, you could have built her up into a monster in your head. She's not. She's just a human - troubled, maybe not saintlike in her strength (heck, who is?) and sorry for what she's done.

I didn't built her up as a monster in my head. I just lost that special feeling for her. That is what I've been repeatedly telling you guys, I do not hate her, I do not have any feelings of revenge towards her. I dont want t make her life miserable. I want nothing of that sort. I just dont see her as the special person anymore

July 29, 2006

No I'm saying you might have. The longer you stay away from someone you feel has wronged you, the worse they seem.

July 29, 2006

OC, you're putting your own spin on this and putting words in his mouth. He's said ALL along he's forgiven her...He just doesn't trust her right now to head back into the relationship. I think under the circumstances he has every right to feel hurt, betrayed and at a loss of what to do next. He never said anywhere that she was a monster.

Losing the special feeling you have for someone you love so deeply has to be devastating. And he has every right to feel this way considering what he woke up to.

July 29, 2006

On hindsight, I felt like that too, that is why I told you I had a a bad feeling about what I had done.. But the damage is done now...

Well, hopefully when she reads your heartfelt words she'll have a better understanding of where your mind is. And she'll maybe be able to put your needs first, give you more time instead of pushing you into what she wants you to do.

Take it one day at a time. That's all you can do.

July 29, 2006

OC, you're putting your own spin on this and putting words in his mouth

CRIPES! I KNOW IT'S LATE BUT THATS NOT/NOT/NOT WHAT I SAID!!!!!!!

I said IF he had kept her away he MIGHT have started to think worse of her. It is the conditional tense. As in a possibility which might have come to be, not a reality.

GEEEEZE, people, READ, willya.

July 29, 2006

I blame the shower then. I"m not reading correctly then tonight!

July 29, 2006

Didn't your mom tell you that your eyes would go crossed if you did it too much?

July 29, 2006

I doubt she'll post since so many LSers have already judged her without hearing her story from her. I sure wouldn't.

July 29, 2006

If she posts, she deserves the same respect we've given CO123. Though, she should start her own thread.

She doesn't owe us anything, she owes her husband the honest truth. She owes him the time to deal with things HIS way and understand his needs right now just as important as her own. And if we can help her see this, then that's a good thing.

July 29, 2006

Hi guys,
I am back. I went away for a day to a friend’s place and we went out sailing. I felt better after having spent time with these lovely people around me.

I was reading this thread last night and read and re-read your posts.

There is one fundamental point that I don’t agree with both of you guys. …

You have a lot of telecom companies who offer you bundled packages i.e. Telephone, internet, cable tv, etc. But we have to realize that even though it ia all bundled together these are all separate services by itself
Similarly, I think you guys are bundling love, You guys said “selfless and unconditional”, while I have to say it should be split up as “selfless love”, and “unconditional love”. I believe your love can be both or just one or none of the above. I would classify mine as selfless but conditional love. It was conditional on fidelity, trust, etc. My selfless love was a product of what I perceived as her feeling towards me. I have already admitted that I don’t feel that way anymore in my earlier post

Replies to other messages

It hard to reply to quotations or proverbs, but I will try to put it in my context… Well, I realize that my life now is a lemon, and I know that I would rather make lemonade… Well the question is should I make it with the soda that has lost its fizz and make a flat lemonade, or find a soda with good fizz and make a proper lemonade. .

You have said it rightly there WWIU. Thank you. That is exactly how I feel.

My thought again…

Well, what she has told me is that she has discontinued that relationship, whatever happens. Apparently he is moving into another place next week. She said she didn’t really love him but that she had given it everything to try to do so. She said she realized that she couldn’t do it anymore. I think she is only indecisive about the baby.

I look at it as the final nail in the coffin; it is definitely the point of no return. But like you said, even without the baby- the chances aren’t that better.

Well, an update on the situation.. Nothing much happened; she was making her nightly calls to my sis-in-law about my progress, during the conversation told my sis that she was distressed my ex-girlfriend was visiting me regularly and spending time with me. (she was my first girlfriend, and she is a nice girl and we split up because she moved abroad with her family because of her father’s job). She came back about 3 years ago and got back in touch with me wanting to get back together, I told her that I was happily married, but that I would like us to remain friends. I told my wife who she was and what our relationship was, and everything, and have been good friends since then. She has been visiting me regularly, about once a week, and spends a day with me. She is a very supportive friend and has not tried to influence me one way or the other. .

My sis told my wife all this, but my wife told her she was feeling very insecure. She asked her if she could talk to me. I accepted the call, She asked me how I was, and if I was feeling better (because I became sick when she saw me last). She asked me if I could continue to talk to her and meet her, and she believes that we could work through this. I told her I will see. I told her that I decided to see a counselor and she said she knew a good marriage counselor, and I told her if was looking for a trauma counselor.

She told me that she will do anything to try to make things right, I told her I will talk to her and meet her, but not immediately. She was crying and begging me not to “shut her out” and not to hate her. I told her that I do not hate her. She then asked me if I loved her that I did in some ways, but not like how I felt before. She told me that she loved me more than from before the accident. I didn’t reply to that because I didn’t want to make a snide remark and hurt her.

Well, I made an appointment with a counselor- my wife had suggested that I go to one who she went to during my coma, but I felt that would be too tangled. I thought a separate counselor would be better and set up the appointment with him. He gave me a ring and just said hi, and that he is looking forward to talking to me, and he just got the brief background from me. I have my first appointment in a couple of days.

SHE feels insecure?????? Because she knows it's VERY likly she lost you, and you have a replacement for HER. Hmm, seems like the punishment fits the crime, just the way I see things. I hope YOU don't feel responsible for all this, you shouldn't. You may want to write down certain things you would like to say to your wife, ask counselor about this, you need to convey your feelings about this to her, rather than bottle it all up and stew about it, but, all in due time. You could also read from that prewritten list your thoughts to her.

July 29, 2006

I really am NOT blaming CarryingOn for his wife's mistake, I'm not sure why you think that. I agree that he is perfectly justified to not want to be with her given the circumstances.

I expressed my sympathy towards him and said that as I haven't been through anything similar I don't know what I would do in his shoes and hope he realises I wasn't judging him.

If I'd been in coma for 17mths and woke up to find my H was with a new woman who was pregnant with his child I would be devastated and quite possibly would want no more to do with him.

It's just that CarryingOn and his wife were very much in love before the accident and were very happy together but I do appreciate that the circumstances now may be insurmountable. It seems a shame for them both to have lost something so good is all.

CO123, I hope my post didn't come over as nasty towards you, I didn't mean it like that and only wanted to give you another angle to think about.

I wish you all the very best and hope things do improve for you soon.

Hugs

Veronese

Well, sorry. Is sure sounded like it, uh, looked like.

July 29, 2006

She needs to go talk to someone. Because her actions have also shown when the chips are down she cannot deal with it. I'm sure she's a mess too and that's why she needs one on one therapy as well.

Godforbid anything awful ever happens again, either healthwise or something. How the heck is CO123 going to fully trust she'll be there for him in the future?

He won't, that's the sad part.

July 29, 2006

I just something on a whim today. Dont know if it is right or not. But my ex called me yesterday and asked if she can come and visit me( she figured out where I was). I told her that I wasn't ready for that now, and I'll get back in touch with her when I am ready to see her again. She asked me if I could jointly visit her counselor as she could handle both sides together. I told her that I didn't want to do that as I wanted to clear my thoughts first. She said that she feared that I will block her out from my life and that is why she wanted to see the counselor jointly. Then I told her that I have a lot of feelings and emotions to deal with and that is when I told her that if she wants to know what is going on in my head, then she can come and read this thread... I dont know if that was the right thing to do, but I felt at that that it is best that she understood the situation totaly from my side. I wasnt feeling like sitting down and talking to her, and opening myself and being vulnerable with her. so I thought the least I could do was to tell her where she can understand what I am thinking. ..I am not sure, now, if I did the right thing or not.

It would be better for her to read this to understand the devastation SHE has caused than for you to talk to her now. It almost sounds as if shes trying to force you to make a decision to go back to her now, rather than wait and sort things out. She may think you may not want to go back to her the longer you're away, or that you and your ex-girlfriend may get together. Not trying to give you any Ideas, just voicing the possibilities. It sounds like your wife may be jealous of ex-girlfriend!

July 29, 2006

She shouldn't terminate that baby, I know people will disagree with me, let them. But, that may be the WORST mistake she makes in ALL of this. She may not see it now, but, when it does hit her, it will overwhelm her, even years later

But as I may have stated before NO ONE here is saying that you have to stay in a marriage with her, no one is saying that you have to divorce her, it's YOUR choice. Your wife has to, and WILL have to understand that.

July 29, 2006

I didn't built her up as a monster in my head. I just lost that special feeling for her...I do not hate her, I do not have any feelings of revenge towards her. I dont want t make her life miserable. I want nothing of that sort. I just dont see her as the special person anymore...

CO123, I totally understand that and I believe that you are absolutely correct when you describe your feelings. Please interpret everything I say in light of the fact that I know you hold no antipathy towards your wife. I wanted to say a few things:

1) She is not your ex, she is your wife, or your STBXW if you prefer. This is not a quibble, rather just pointing out a fact. Maybe you're just not used to the idea of being married to someone towards whom your feelings are so unhusbandly. You came to it suddenly - many of us come to it over time. And we would tell you that the feelings are just that. They are feelings, not facts. You FEEL she is not special.

2) If she had come on LS 12 months ago, describing the same set of facts, but at an earlier stage, and telling us of all her grief and confusion which were leading her to consider seeking another man's company, I and many others would have told her to SLOW THE HECK DOWN and stop letting her short-term, crisis emotions dominate her thought process and her plans. And I say the same to you. I applaud your clarity, strength and all the rest of it, and I also want you to know that IMO, you are in the phase where your emotions dominate your decision making, without your even realizing it.

3) Your feelings are not created by her actions. Rather, they are created by your thought process about her actions. I think you will resist this idea strenuously. I also think you are a thoughtful person who will eventually come to find some truth in it. That truth is so powerful it could completely change the tone of your life. Please see The Feeling Good Handbook by David Burns for a deeper explanation.

BTW, thanks for being a good sport and letting us LSers advise and comment. You have shown great openmindedness.

July 30, 2006

SHE feels insecure?????? Because she knows it's VERY likly she lost you, and you have a replacement for HER. Hmm, seems like the punishment fits the crime, just the way I see things. I hope YOU don't feel responsible for all this, you shouldn't.

1. I haven’t found a replacement for her yet

2. I don’t see my actions or reactions as a means to punish her, but merely looking out for myself

She shouldn't terminate that baby, I know people will disagree with me, let them. But, that may be the WORST mistake she makes in ALL of this. She may not see it now, but, when it does hit her, it will overwhelm her, even years later

I have to mention here that we are both Catholics with strong views on this topic. That makes it more complicated.

CO123, I totally understand that and I believe that you are absolutely correct when you describe your feelings. Please interpret everything I say in light of the fact that I know you hold no antipathy towards your wife. I wanted to say a few things:

1) She is not your ex, she is your wife, or your STBXW if you prefer. This is not a quibble, rather just pointing out a fact. Maybe you're just not used to the idea of being married to someone towards whom your feelings are so unhusbandly. You came to it suddenly - many of us come to it over time. And we would tell you that the feelings are just that. They are feelings, not facts. You FEEL she is not special.

2) If she had come on LS 12 months ago, describing the same set of facts, but at an earlier stage, and telling us of all her grief and confusion which were leading her to consider seeking another man's company, I and many others would have told her to SLOW THE HECK DOWN and stop letting her short-term, crisis emotions dominate her thought process and her plans. And I say the same to you. I applaud your clarity, strength and all the rest of it, and I also want you to know that IMO, you are in the phase where your emotions dominate your decision making, without your even realizing it.

3) Your feelings are not created by her actions. Rather, they are created by your thought process about her actions. I think you will resist this idea strenuously. I also think you are a thoughtful person who will eventually come to find some truth in it. That truth is so powerful it could completely change the tone of your life. Please see The Feeling Good Handbook by David Burns for a deeper explanation.

BTW, thanks for being a good sport and letting us LSers advise and comment. You have shown great openmindedness.

Hi Solemate, good to talk to you again. been a while hasn't it? Hope you've been keeping well.

1. You are quite right. But don’t you think its just semantics.

2. She could have done that 12 months ago, she could have done a lot of things 12 months ago, but she didn’t. so what is the point of thinking “what if…”

3. You are right again, but…Don’t we all think like that? Aren’t all our feelings due to our thoughts on the actions of others

I haven't read the book yet, but will lookout for it. Thnx

July 30, 2006

Aren’t all our feelings due to our thoughts on the actions of others

Yes, that's the point. You can have a number of different thoughts. You can choose one of them. You could have chosen any of the thoughts/ideas which have been presented to you here, for instance that she was so distraught that she sought company of some sort to fill the horrible void. Instead you seem to have chosen to think she was betraying you - you posted in the 'infidelity' forum, after all. She says different - but despite what she tells you she was thinking, you think of it differently.

Let's take as an analogy the hypothetical example of a person accusing you of being mad when you are for sure not mad. The person decides to believe that you are mad even though you are the person inside your head, you know you aren't mad, and you tell the person you are not mad. Of course, that the person keeps insisting that you are mad will eventually likely make you mad, but even though YOU know how YOU feel, the person talking to you has put his/her own interpretation on it and chosen to believe you are mad.

That person could listen to your words and believe you that you are not, but chooses to go with his own interpretation even though it's not borne out in anything but his own impression.

July 30, 2006

1. I haven’t found a replacement for her yet

2. I don’t see my actions or reactions as a means to punish her, but merely looking out for myself

I have to mention here that we are both Catholics with strong views on this topic. That makes it more complicated.

Hi Solemate, good to talk to you again. been a while hasn't it? Hope you've been keeping well.

1. You are quite right. But don’t you think its just semantics.

2. She could have done that 12 months ago, she could have done a lot of things 12 months ago, but she didn’t. so what is the point of thinking “what if…”

3. You are right again, but…Don’t we all think like that? Aren’t all our feelings due to our thoughts on the actions of others

I haven't read the book yet, but will lookout for it. Thnx

1. I know you haven't found a replacement, and so do you, but SHE doesn't YET.

2. I'm not saying you are trying to punish her, I was saying the way she is acting toward ex-girlfriend is in jealousy, in a way it's almost like punishment, although you're NOT intending it that way. So the wife is thinking: will he do something with her, or not? She may also be thinking that it may be YOUR way of major payback, although I'm sure this is not what you are intending to do, but, she DOESN'T! Not trying to give you any ideas though.

July 30, 2006

1. I know you haven't found a replacement, and so do you, but SHE doesn't YET.

2. I'm not saying you are trying to punish her, I was saying the way she is acting toward ex-girlfriend is in jealousy, in a way it's almost like punishment, although you're NOT intending it that way. So the wife is thinking: will he do something with her, or not? She may also be thinking that it may be YOUR way of major payback, although I'm sure this is not what you are intending to do, but, she DOESN'T! Not trying to give you any ideas though.

Ok, I see where you are coming from..

Thanks for your support mate.

July 30, 2006

Yes, that's the point. You can have a number of different thoughts. You can choose one of them. You could have chosen any of the thoughts/ideas which have been presented to you here, for instance that she was so distraught that she sought company of some sort to fill the horrible void. Instead you seem to have chosen to think she was betraying you - you posted in the 'infidelity' forum, after all. She says different - but despite what she tells you she was thinking, you think of it differently.

I have not ignored any of those viewpoints. Even in that situation, am I not justified in feeling betrayed. It is still betrayal. It can happen due to any amount of reasons. but ultimately it is still betrayal. I have chosen to post this on the infidelity forum because it is infidelity- Same argument again. is there any onther forum I could have posted this on?

That person could listen to your words and believe you that you are not, but chooses to go with his own interpretation even though it's not borne out in anything but his own impression.

I dont beve it is not betrayal. so it is not that I am going along a pre-determined path even though I believe the reasons aren't true.

July 30, 2006

Ok i'm new here so i might not be doing this right. I've read the entire thread and there is one question that seems most important. IMO the answer to said question is the bottom line. DO YOU WANT TO BE WITH HER?

July 30, 2006

I've read the entire thread and there is one question that seems most important. IMO the answer to said question is the bottom line. DO YOU WANT TO BE WITH HER?

Sometimes it's not enough to love someone and want to be with them.

I remember a couple of different boyfriends from my youth who weren't good choices for me. I think that's probably a common experience for most folks. You meet someone, get involved, and over the course of time you realize that they're not adding anything positive to your life, rather they've introduced a negative energy that brings out the worst in you. It doesn't matter how much you love or want them.... their influence is toxic.

I'm not saying that's definitely the case here. Who knows? But, as a possibility, it exists. It might turn out that these two people aren't ever going to be a really good influence on each other.

For the record, I think CarriedOn is well within his rights to decide to move on with his life if that's what he wants. He didn't make these problems. He just woke up to find them all in his lap. He shouldn't be pressured, or made to feel as if he's being unfair to his wife if he doesn't want to define his future by choices he, himself, didn't make.

I hope he'll defer his final decision until after he's had some time to think things through. Time heals. But I think the most likely result of continued pressure from the wife will be to force him into a 'default' decision.

July 30, 2006

Ok, I'm back.

I'm just trying to imagine how this would feel.

You wake up and first thing is that you don't even know how long you've been in a coma. They tell you 17 months and you are so surprised when maybe it only felt like days etc. Then all of a sudden another whopper is out about how your WIFE/LOVEOFYOURLIFE is on vacation.... with another man... whom she is engaged to.... and having his baby...

you just can't expect this man to forgive and forget.

I think my heart would have stopped or I would have had a heart attack by now if I was in his shoes. Way too much stress.

July 30, 2006

Try it from the other side. The love of your life is damaged - seemingly irreparably - because he tried to save YOU. Every time you look at his broken, unmoving, uncommunicative body you realize it's because of YOU that your loved one is lying there. Not only is he wounded, but to the extent that people think he may not recover. Day after day you watch and hope that there'll be some sign that he'll recover. And nothing. And you know it's because of what he did that he's like this. Your best friend and the person who comforts you when you're down is now lost to you.

Try that for a year and see how great it is. I watched my mother slip into and out of a coma for a week and that seemed endless - and it wasn't anything to do with me, just disease that was taking her. I'd count the seconds between her breaths to try to figure out if she had died or not. Sometimes there'd be an awful long time between breaths.

The whole point is that the year has gone by in a blink to him because he was out. To her it was 8,760 hours. Long, lonely, painful, scary hours.

Sign In

selfless love is just an illusion

Recommended Posts

Outcast

CarryingOn123

Outcast

whichwayisup

whichwayisup

Outcast

whichwayisup

Outcast

Outcast

whichwayisup

Sup

Sup

Sup

Sup

Sup

SoleMate

CarryingOn123

Outcast

Sup

CarryingOn123

CarryingOn123

queenbee930

Ladyjane14

ridingthebulls

Outcast

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...