Diver012 Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Ok so ive been reading this book. I started last night and have been continuing through this morning. One of the discoveries that I have made, is that a lot of what this book is talking about is when Men do nice things for other people expecting approval accomodation in return. In other words, they arent doing something for nothing, they are expecting certain gratifications back as a result of their gifts. They are expecting Love, acceptance, approval, and kindness. I realized that it wasn't me in my past relationship that was doing these things, it was my Ex Girfriend that was doing this to me. I really dont think this book is gender specific as the title sudgests. I was getting all kinds of gifts, on Valentines Day she, yes SHE dropped over $200 on dinner, had this elaborate evening planned, with Love letters ect... Was this to win my approval? Was she doing these things expecting me to be able to return certain feelings and behaviors? The book goes on to say that when thse behaviors arent returned in the manner they are expected, resenment and frustration usually sets in. Hence our breakup. You think its possible for a woman to be "To Nice"??
The slayer Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Of course they can, but it my opinion "Too nice" in either a man or a woman really means Insecure, needy and subsequently a bit manipulative in the way you describe above.
amaysngrace Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Of course they can, but it my opinion "Too nice" in either a man or a woman really means Insecure, needy and subsequently a bit manipulative in the way you describe above. Yes, I agree. IMO, when people are overly generous, it usually means they have issues with themselves. It's almost as though they have to "sell" themselves to you, in order for you to like them. Because basically they don't feel worthy as a person.
alphamale Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 You think its possible for a woman to be "To Nice"?? of course it is...but this malady usually afflicts the average looking or below-average looking females. I haven't met too many gorgeous women who were too nice.
In Sync Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Since your ex is not speaking for herself here, it's hard to figure out what or why her intentions were..maybe it's true as the book says..but the bigger question here is why did you go along with the gifts. How did you feel when you got things or she did things for you? Obviously your reaction to these things had some effect on her and yourself as well? **funny pic alphamale!
Tony T Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 I think the greatest possiblity is that your ex was sincerely a giving and kind person. You had one in a million but you were obviously in no state of mind to appreciate it. One day you will look back with deep regret at having let such a gem go. However, if you didn't feel right about her then that's what you have to go by now. Most people, excepting Mother Theresa, have some motivation for doing kind things. But isn't that nice. Nothing wrong there. If there was no motivation at all to be kind, we'd just go around flipping birds at each other all day. I think most men who've been around the block with nasty bxtches would truly love a lady like you had, attraction and all other things being equal. Trust me on this one, you will miss her in the long run...especially one day when you're with somebody who is selfish and impossible...like many who roam the jungle these days. Oh, and yes, Mother Theresa has some motivation as well. Most likely she was wanting to ensure a place in heaven....or even have a crack at sainthood. She was NOT trying to impress men or gain their favor. Most of the ones she came in contact with were sick as hell. The book you are reading was designed for men who are sickeningly nice and giving and drive women away with their antics which are so horribly sweet they reek of low self esteem and downright boringness.
alphamale Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 One day you will look back with deep regret at having let such a gem go. I would agree with that... Oh, and yes, Mother Theresa has some motivation as well. one of her "motivations" was no contraception whatsoever in a country (India) that is already grossly over-populated and disease-ridden.
westernxer Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 one of her "motivations" was no contraception whatsoever in a country (India) that is already grossly over-populated and disease-ridden. LOL. How's that for being nice.
BareGoddess Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 of course it is...but this malady usually afflicts the average looking or below-average looking females. I haven't met too many gorgeous women who were too nice. Yeah...we're either called bitches or goddesses!
KittenMoon Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Some girls like to give stuff- I know I do. Mostly just little gifts like candy to brighten his day- some people are just like that. (my family is like that) But really elaborate expensive stuff all the time I find sketchy... why do you need to give a diamond necklace or a flatscreen tv to show your love? I'd rather a guy remember my fav movie, ice cream, and beer and show up with them randomly at my door one night rather than think he needs to drop $$$ on generic jewelry.
BareGoddess Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Some girls like to give stuff- I know I do. Mostly just little gifts like candy to brighten his day- some people are just like that. (my family is like that) But really elaborate expensive stuff all the time I find sketchy... why do you need to give a diamond necklace or a flatscreen tv to show your love? I'd rather a guy remember my fav movie, ice cream, and beer and show up with them randomly at my door one night rather than think he needs to drop $$$ on generic jewelry. What's wrong with a flat screen tv or a diamond necklace? I can by my OWN ice cream and beer!
KittenMoon Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 What's wrong with a flat screen tv or a diamond necklace? I can by my OWN ice cream and beer! Well, nothing really. I'm just pointing out that a gift can be much better when it's a sincere display of a guy/girl remembering something you really like or want, instead of just buying something generic or off a hokey "Top Ten Gifts for Guys/Girls" list. Certainly, no guy who knew me would think I wanted a diamond necklace. (Actually I'd rather have the flat screen TV but I don't like a lot of money spent on me it makes me uncomfortable....)
alphamale Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 ...but I don't like a lot of money spent on me it makes me uncomfortable....) a lot of women say this KM...but when the dude does spend a lot of money on them, they are like "OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG"
KittenMoon Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 a lot of women say this KM...but when the dude does spend a lot of money on them, they are like "OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG" Well- what constitutes a lot for other people? After 6 years, the last real gift my ex gave me at Christmas was $300 towards my new laptop. That was was pretty much the limit of what I would let him give me. If he was my husband, I'd let it go up. I thought it was way more romantic when he spent 2 hours on the phone with customer service for me when the laptop was delivered ith a crap CDROM.
jerbear Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 What's wrong with a flat screen tv or a diamond necklace? I can by my OWN ice cream and beer! Feel the ice cream, be the ice cream! Now is that really beer we're drinking?! I feel it is just a matter of perspective. Some couples just have the ability to drop a few thousand as gifts. What one feels as expensive maybe normal for other people and even social classes.
BareGoddess Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Well, nothing really. I'm just pointing out that a gift can be much better when it's a sincere display of a guy/girl remembering something you really like or want, instead of just buying something generic or off a hokey "Top Ten Gifts for Guys/Girls" list. Certainly, no guy who knew me would think I wanted a diamond necklace. (Actually I'd rather have the flat screen TV but I don't like a lot of money spent on me it makes me uncomfortable....) Uh..yes. I got your point KM. I was just trying to be funny. You make a good point.
jerbear Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 KM, Looks like you look for usability and functionality versus vanity items?
Outcast Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 I like giving stuff. I have to stop myself from going overboard. And, oddly, the times I've missed people most is when I've seen things that I know they'd like that, were we still together, I'd buy for them. While I don't want the people themselves back, it was nice to have someone to 'do for'. It took several years after my marriage ended to walk through the men's wear section of stores because I enjoyed shopping with the SO and helping find things that looked good and that the SO liked. If you really want to get into it, philosophers have devoted a great deal of time to discussing whether true altruism exists or whether there's always a 'motive'. Some people obviously try to ingratiate themseves to people by buying them things and giving them things endlessly. Others give out of genuine affection and a desire to see someone be pleased because of the gift. You have to consider the behaviour as part of a whole and not as an isolated issue.
BareGoddess Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 To me giving THINGS was part of the whole process of falling in love. It was just another expression or form of affection. I gave of myself in ALL ways. I wasn't looking to get anything back. It made me happy to see him happy. All of that still holds true of course. We're just a little more practical now in our gift-giving.
alphamale Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 It took several years after my marriage ended to walk through the men's wear section of stores because I enjoyed shopping with the SO and helping find things that looked good and that the SO liked. wow thats so self-revealing OUTCAST....maybe you actually are human after all...
Author Diver012 Posted July 16, 2006 Author Posted July 16, 2006 I think the greatest possiblity is that your ex was sincerely a giving and kind person. You had one in a million but you were obviously in no state of mind to appreciate it. One day you will look back with deep regret at having let such a gem go. However, if you didn't feel right about her then that's what you have to go by now. Most people, excepting Mother Theresa, have some motivation for doing kind things. But isn't that nice. Nothing wrong there. If there was no motivation at all to be kind, we'd just go around flipping birds at each other all day. I think most men who've been around the block with nasty bxtches would truly love a lady like you had, attraction and all other things being equal. Trust me on this one, you will miss her in the long run...especially one day when you're with somebody who is selfish and impossible...like many who roam the jungle these days. Oh, and yes, Mother Theresa has some motivation as well. Most likely she was wanting to ensure a place in heaven....or even have a crack at sainthood. She was NOT trying to impress men or gain their favor. Most of the ones she came in contact with were sick as hell. The book you are reading was designed for men who are sickeningly nice and giving and drive women away with their antics which are so horribly sweet they reek of low self esteem and downright boringness. Ya know what, your probably right. Ya know soemthing else, I will look back on this and realize that it was most likely my fault. I took a woman who loved me, who wanted to be with me, for the rest of her life, and in a matter of months of having that feeling for me, wrecked her love so bad she cant stand me. I tried to appreciate everything she did for me. I tried to repay her love and kindness as best as I could, I tried to listen to her problems and be there for here, both physically and emotionally, I ****ing Tried. As the saying goes, in the end It doesnt eve matter. Im no good. The pathetic truth of my romantic life is, If I count up all the times I was in a romantic relationship with women, it wouldnt even amount to a year. I have never ever been able to have a long term meaningful relationship. Either the feeling is never there for me, of the woman never had the same feelings for me. And the inbetween times, well lets just say I go years between relationship, just to watch them fall apart within a matter of months. So hears the scoop folks, I quit. I tried to play it cool I tried to do teh right thing. I tried and I fail, over and over and over. Seeing as how all I ever seem to do is hurt people, I wont be trying to do that anymore. Its apparent to me I have major issues. I dont have the time or money to go to a shrink and fix myself, and to be honest, as deep as these issues go, it would take decades to fix anyways, so who gives a ****. All I ever wanted was someone to share a life with. Just one person. on equal terms. I watch these pricks who are married, have affairs, abuse the hell out of their wives, treat them like crap, and the damn women keep coming back for more. They cant get enough it seems. Ive absolutely had it. Im done. Peace Out
Outcast Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Alf, you just haven't paid attention. That's what happens when you have OC on ignore.
lindya Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 You think its possible for a woman to be "To Nice"?? Some people no doubt do very blatantly give with the aim of getting something in return. It's usually not hard to figure out when that's happening, provided you have reasonably good insight and instincts. If it takes hindsight and a self help book to help you "realise" that this is what your girlfriend was up to, then there's a chance that you might be applying the "nice/manipulative" too readily or unfairly. The idea of kindness and generosity being perceived as weaknesses bothers me a little. There's too much potential for scoundrels to use that sort of reasoning as justification for treating others shoddily. On the other hand, I don't know your ex-girlfriend at all, so it's impossible to say whether she earned the "Too nice in the most negative sense of the word" label. Probably best to ask your inner voice about this...taking care, as you do so, to consider whether there's anything you feel guilty about. Guilt's a pretty unpleasant thing to experience, and all too often the human tendency is to try shaking it off by rationalising that "he/she deserved to be treated badly..."
alphamale Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Alf, you just haven't paid attention. That's what happens when you have OC on ignore. well i have called a truce and taken you off ignore as of a week ago. I want to set a good example for the parties in the mideast conflict
Tony T Posted July 16, 2006 Posted July 16, 2006 Ya know what, your probably right. Ya know soemthing else, I will look back on this and realize that it was most likely my fault. I took a woman who loved me, who wanted to be with me, for the rest of her life, and in a matter of months of having that feeling for me, wrecked her love so bad she cant stand me. I tried to appreciate everything she did for me. I tried to repay her love and kindness as best as I could, I tried to listen to her problems and be there for here, both physically and emotionally, I ****ing Tried. As the saying goes, in the end It doesnt eve matter. Im no good. The pathetic truth of my romantic life is, If I count up all the times I was in a romantic relationship with women, it wouldnt even amount to a year. I have never ever been able to have a long term meaningful relationship. Either the feeling is never there for me, of the woman never had the same feelings for me. And the inbetween times, well lets just say I go years between relationship, just to watch them fall apart within a matter of months. So hears the scoop folks, I quit. I tried to play it cool I tried to do teh right thing. I tried and I fail, over and over and over. Seeing as how all I ever seem to do is hurt people, I wont be trying to do that anymore. Its apparent to me I have major issues. I dont have the time or money to go to a shrink and fix myself, and to be honest, as deep as these issues go, it would take decades to fix anyways, so who gives a ****. All I ever wanted was someone to share a life with. Just one person. on equal terms. I watch these pricks who are married, have affairs, abuse the hell out of their wives, treat them like crap, and the damn women keep coming back for more. They cant get enough it seems. Ive absolutely had it. Im done. No, I wouldn't give up. I would try to cure myself if I were you. There are underlying psychological reasons why you reject women who treat you kindly but go after the ones who don't. You may grow out of this but maybe not. Ultimately, you'll pray for a nice girl who is very kind of you to come along...let's just hope it's not too late. Meanwhile, be kind, gentle and patient with yourself. You're just growing like we all are. If you want to read some interesting material on the subject, google Dr. Robert Glover and read some of his stuff.
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