RecoverMe Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 my cheating husband who I found out June 8 was having an affair with some hottie up near our vacation house, has been unable to admit to me if he had sex with her. am i crazy to need to know this, and b/c my husband seems to have extreme issues with telling the truth, how if at all will he be able to tell me what I need to hear?
LucreziaBorgia Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 Are you two in marriage counseling? It could be that he is doing one of two things: protecting the affair, or protecting himself. If he is protecting the affair, he doesn't want you to know the details and prefers to keep them to himself - he could see it as 'none of your business' particularly if he has compartmentalized his emotions. Some people in affairs have this idea that their affair has 'nothing to do' with the spouse. It is separate from the marriage, in their mind has no effect on the marriage and is therefore no concern of the spouse. If he is remorseful but is protecting himself, he doesn't want to tell you the truth for fear of hurting you further and losing you. It could be a little of both. How did the affair end? Are you certain it is over? You are not crazy to want to know details. A betrayed spouse often has a need to know even the smallest, most painful details. Why is this? I think it has something to do with owning the affair - taking the secrets away from the affair partners. Taking what was secret and therefore 'special' (in the affair partner's minds anyway) and exposing it, examining it, and minimizing it. Once the betrayed spouse finds out all the details, there is some power there in knowing them - knowing that the marriage outlasted the affair - even right down the last little dirty detail. No one likes to be left out of the loop and it can be terrifying for a betrayed spouse not knowing exactly what was said and done in an affair. That doesn't make you crazy. It makes you human.
Author RecoverMe Posted July 10, 2006 Author Posted July 10, 2006 hanks for your response. I think it is a little of both, wanting to keep it to himself, b/c he says over and over it meant nothing to him and it made him realize how much he "treasures" me. and also I believe he is afraid to hurt me more, although at this point I think I am beyond roadkill and anything more would be like kicking a dead racoon. I'm numb. the affair was ended over the phone, which was one of the biggest componenets of the affair (the cell phone records), showing their daily long conversations and many text messages. The fact that my husband even learned how to text message is a such an out of character and freaky thing. I called her about 5 days after I found out b/c I told my hub he had to end it with her period or he would have to move out. He lied and told me he had called her and told her it was over and that I wouldn't see any more calls to her on his cell phone, but 9 days later I discovered a new cell phone contract dated the day after I discovered he was cheating. That hurt as much or as more as the original discovery of his infidelity. That phone has been handed over, and he was around us for 10 days of vacation (up there which was sooo difficult for me), and he thought I had taken him back. but when I came home and saw the phone bill for the secret cell phone and the fact he had called her the minute I left w/. my daughters to get a two day head start on vacation, I was filled w/ more trepidation that he had her come down here to the bay area to see him. he denies that accusation. that phone call is the last one to her. then a few days later she texted him and said I was driving by her house, in which he called her back and said that's a load of crap... (which it is) and that is supposedly the last time he talked to her. but of course I am unable to trust him at this point. There's the office phone line and the u.s. mail. we are going to start counseling. I have asked him to also go solo. we'll see. sorrry to ramble, you sound like a therapist yourself.... are you? thanks, pam
Buttaflyy Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 I think you already have the answer with his comment "it meant nothing". Either way, if you plan to work it out, you need his help. He should be working very hard to gain your trust back.
2sunny Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 I am sorry for your pain. He doesn't seem to be giving her up like he says he is.... that would make me want to kick him to the curb. Just the fact that he went to great lengths to obtain and hide another phone is terribly dishonest. Why do you want to live with this wondering? Wondering if he is still in touch with her Wondering if he's connected to her emotionally Wondering if he slept with her Wondering if he will be faithful in the future Wondering if he's being truthful From what you say - I can't tell if he is trying to give you reasons now to trust him or if he's trying to save the marriage or if he's is showing you that he loves you???? Any further info may help in what I would suggest as your next plan of action. Marriage builders is a site that some suggest as being very useful when in your situation... if you intend to work on this marriage...
Author RecoverMe Posted July 10, 2006 Author Posted July 10, 2006 He is trying to show me he loves me and has been showering and wooing me with all kinds of love and affection. he knows i spoke w/ a divorce attorney. He swears its over and she is gone, but like you said the great lengths of the secret phone and I havent' even mentioned the rx of viagra that the obtained and that I never saw, b/c he didn't want me to see how many there were. he divided them up and i found three in an old wallet in a pair of shorts. more lies after i confronte him with that. he said they slept togethter buut he didn't have a condom and she said forget it. so I said, so what oral sex then? and he just cannot tell me, denies he got the pills to use with her (he is an extreme cyclist for the past 20 years and he has cyling--induced impotence, which has been an issue in our marriage for 2 or so years, neither of us knowing what was wrong, and finally I said just go talk to your doctor. well, he did AFTER he had met this woman. so you see there are huge areas of shattered trust, and I don't see how he can't see any of it. I told him if he wants me to forgive him then I have to hear from him what I'm need to forgive, but he is stubborn and holding on to the painful stuff and I think he's lying about the sex part. he insists their connection was not about sex, b ut hasn't elaborated much on that either. thanks, p
2sunny Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 Don't question him anymore! It's completely obvious that he cheated on you - emotionally for sure - and most likely physically as well. To ask him is pointless. YOU either accept all this and work on the marriage or you leave him. You are the only one who knows what you can live with... None of it is easy (I know from experience) and I wish you lots of happiness - know matter what you decide. Peace of mind is a terrible thing to waste....
Becoming Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 I told my hub he had to end it with her period or he would have to move out. He lied and told me he had called her and told her it was over and that I wouldn't see any more calls to her on his cell phone, but 9 days later I discovered a new cell phone contract dated the day after I discovered he was cheating. That hurt as much or as more as the original discovery of his infidelity. So when you found out, did you throw him out? It sounds like you know what you will and will not tolerate as good for you, so you need to honor that and let him make his own decisions. If you want your H back, you need to do what it is you say you will do and then woo him with respect, kindness, and your own honesty about how badly he has hurt you and what it is you need to have from him in order to continue to be married to him. My H was so far gone it was like he couldn't see the consequences of his behavior at all. So I made him see. Told him to get his things and be gone by the time I got back, then changed the locks and made the appt. with a lawyer. He was so shocked he couldn't believe I actually had it in me. I called friends and family who had promised to support our marriage during our wedding ceremony and told them what was going on and asked for their help (practical and emotional). I wasn't going to cover for his bad behavior. Of course, one of the conditions I had was that it ended. But honestly, that took a few days (this was just an email fling thing:rolleyes:) in order to deal with the OW's feelings. You have to decide whether you can forgive him and what you need in order to be able to do that. I, too, wanted every salacious detail to the point where I tortured myself into numbness. I don't know why but that helped. I think LB helped me just now see why. Thanks! Tough boundaries coupled with letting him see how devastated and hurt I was worked in my case. Of course, he had to want me, and I knew I couldn't make him love me. He either did or he didn't. But I will tell you that we've now been married 25 years and are happy.
Blind Illusion Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 What if, you ask him to come clean at one of the counseling sessions? Would the therapist be better able to have him answer the questions that you pose? I read with interest what LucreziaBorgia wrote about 'owning" the details of the affair. I never thought of that. Interesting and seemingly, accurate.
Author RecoverMe Posted July 10, 2006 Author Posted July 10, 2006 i like that idea of asking him to come clean at counseling, and to answer bling illusions question, throwing him out initially wasn't an option w/our children situation. my older daughter would have flipped as she has had some extreme anxiety issues prior to discovery of affair, and my younger one is severly autistic. We did take some "space" for 5 nights, and we talkied every night on the phone. I have also asked him for just a few nights of this week while my older daughter is on an out of town vacation to pls check into a motel, but he refuses. so I moved out of the bedrooom. thanks for all your advice and support!
Author RecoverMe Posted July 13, 2006 Author Posted July 13, 2006 Therapy has been going ok this week, he did come clean and got down on his knees and begged me to forgive him and said he was terrified of losing me. I told him i was going to try to forgive him, but I thought it would take time and that during that time we had a lot of work to do to repair and renew the marriage. he now says he resents the ow for all the pain that she caused me, but I told him it takes two to tango and he agreed he was just as responsible if not more for the whole mess. We have been having the BEST SEX we have ever, ever had in the 18 years we have been together. Sometimes these affairs can bring you closer and be the huge wake up call to a dead relationship, the call being, do you want to stay in the marriage for convenience and to have a roomate type partner? or do you want passion and flames and joy and exitement? I think that's why he wandered to begin with, and I think I will be able to forgive him, but I 've got a ton of healing to do. I recommend a great little book called True Love by Thich Nhat Hanh (one of my heroes)........and here is a little quote "Without mindfulness, we live like the dead":love:
Becoming Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 :bunny: Yeah! :bunny: Yeah, I remember that sex after my H came back home. It was fabulous--passionate and tender all at the same time. Enjoy it while you can because you know hard work is ahead, including holding him to doing what it is you say you need to do in order to heal. Marriage counseling can really help at this point. Our marriage is much better now partly because I found my power and expected him to start acting responsibly. All the best!
justice Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 I am so sorry. I was reading your post and felt as if I knew every line by heart. It made me cry for both of us. I hope things continue to go well.
Author RecoverMe Posted July 14, 2006 Author Posted July 14, 2006 two steps forward, one major one back in the form of unleashing an ugly emotion called anger, then feeling the despair, depression and hurt as the aftermath. we made up after a huge yelling match, but it left me feeling empty . that's when i self doubt and wonder if I am strong enough to get over this, and if this relationship will be enough for me should I stay and work it out. It's so hard to have been betrayed, it's like the worst hurt us human's can experience, next to losing someone in death....don't you think?
whichwayisup Posted July 14, 2006 Posted July 14, 2006 Is the other woman married? If so, or if she is dating someone, threaten to tell her spouse. IF she is trying to keep intouch with your husband, that might keep her away. BOTH of you sit down and write her an email - Together. Tell her that she is not to ever call, email or try to see your husband ever again. No need to go into details, just that the marriage is being fixed and there is no place for her to be in his life, even as an aquaintance. NO contact is the only way to go...
Becoming Posted July 14, 2006 Posted July 14, 2006 two steps forward, one major one back in the form of unleashing an ugly emotion called anger, then feeling the despair, depression and hurt as the aftermath. we made up after a huge yelling match, but it left me feeling empty . that's when i self doubt and wonder if I am strong enough to get over this, and if this relationship will be enough for me should I stay and work it out. It's so hard to have been betrayed, it's like the worst hurt us human's can experience, next to losing someone in death....don't you think? I remember feeling like I had no skin at this time, like I was just a jangle of emotions and raw nerves. I think it's harder being betrayed in some ways because at least generally when someone dies ya can't blame them! Of course, with betrayal, there's the hope of a future relationship. With death, there's not. I really had to resist the urge to be prosecutor and punish the hell out my H. I didn't always succeed, of course. Instead, I let him see the pain his actions caused and cried a lot and poured it all out. He had to stay and witness--it was one of the conditions of him coming back because he had never respected my feelings before. Indeed, because of his own issues, female feelings completely overwhelmed him. And he needed to learn that there are consequences to our actions--something he also didn't seem to get. Looking back on it, we did a lot of things wrong. We were flying blind, doing the best we could. Ask the marriage counselor for exactly what you need to be doing during this time. Check out marriagebuilders.com if you haven't already and work through that site together. You're going to have to take the lead and the high road because you're obviously the most mature (Yeah, it sucks, don't it?). When he acts in a way that is unacceptable to you, move away from him. Tell him you're doing it and why calmly and rationally. If he decides to act in a way that is not good, you want nothing to do with that. That way you act out of your center of what you value and don't give too much to the point where you're resentful later. (See section on Giver and Taker under basic concepts of marriagebuilders--helpful). The anger really hit me after that two-week period of fabulous sex. I don't know if that's normal or not, but what began to happen was that I started overfunctioning in the relationship again. Marriage counseling is crucial during this period--once a week, if you can, would be good. Hang in there. If this is the guy you want to spend the rest of your life with, it's gonna hurt to go through this. But I'm here to tell ya it's worth it. If he's changed so much that you no longer know if you want him, you need to be honest with yourself and save yourself pain and time.
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