lawrence angel Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Okay so I wrote a thread here a while back about my husband of 10 years having what he called just a close friendship that he saw nothing wrong with at the time because they were "just friends", but it was a friendship that I did not know existed, and what I call an EA. No sex, no private time spent together, no talk of being together, just about 100 or so calls per month for a year or so, on cell phones of 2 people who do the same line of work. Now he realizes it was inappropriate because he kept the friendship from me. I found this out in October of last year and have not checked the cell trail because for the past 8 months my husband has been super sweet, changed everthing about himself, and treats me with much love and respect now, better than ever before, unlike then when he was angry all the time, verbally abusive to me and our child, and extremely distant. Originally I wanted no contact between them but decided it was okay because he makes money off of her with his business. He agreed that he would only have business conversation with her and nothing else. I do believe him but I just checked the cell trail after 8 mo (he does not know this) and saw that the phone calls no longer exist on weekends and they are about 1/3 of what they were before, but why would he call her on his way back from CA for 5 min and then call me for 5 min and then call her back for 5 min. like he was bored or something. I also saw that he called her 2 times on a Saturday the day before we went on an 8 day vacation together. (where we were previously married) This was a place she was very familiar with too, and knew alot of people there where we were going. I know he was only asking her advice about things to do, but he knows it is suppose to be strictly business. He also took me to a bar there, and out of knowwhere said to the waitress, "hey are you (so and so?) , well (OW) told me to come here and you would give me a deal on drinks" I looked at him and said "what in the hell are you doing? We almost divorced over the OW and you take me on vacation where we got married and mention her name??" He was dumbfounded and appologized. Then I see that she called his cell phone the day we were suppose to get back, but his mom had his cell phone at the time running his business. We have had numerous discussions about the OW in the past, so asking him about this is going to get me knowwhere. Our councelor said that no contact means he could go out and do this with anyone again some time and that basically I just have to trust him. I feel sick to my stomach thinking about this, what should I do?? How does one know that this relationship is safe? How does someone go from having a best friend for that long and then only business?? Should there be no contact?? I just bought a voice recorder, put it in my new car that has blue tooth,and heard only one 2 min conversation in my car between them, and it was strictly business. This is going to be a rare opportunity because he does not drive my car very often, and he does not drive his work vehicle home. This is all I can come up with.
Blazelet Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 I believe the "just friends" line is junk. Is your husband getting back into his ways? I don't know. Is he honoring your request to keep the conversations to business only? Not at all. This was proven to you on your vacation. Relationships with a third party are a triangle. The closer your spouse gets to the other person, the further they get from you. In the case of my relationship, the OM became a "best friend" which ultimately proved more important to my ex wife than I was, as she was closer to him. Do you think your husband would give up on the business if you asked him to? Drop her completely? Do you think that would make a difference?
jmargel Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 NO contact is NO contact. As long as her foot is in the door you will be living on edge. What is more important his marriage to you or the money he receives from her business? He needs to drop her as a client. Have you two gone to marriage counseling? If not, it's only a matter of time before the conversations get back to the way they were before. Check out my link, it might help you some.
Mz. Pixie Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Poster- Simply put- Hell no. He cannot ever talk to her again. Period. I don't care how much money he's making off of her. If your marriage is not worth giving that up- then there is major problem. He's using that as an excuse to talk to her and get his fix from her. J- great pic! Love the puppy. I wish you'd post an update thread about your situation. I know lots of us are interested in what's been going on!
jmargel Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Thankx Pixie I will post an update.. You all were so helpful when I needed you all.
witabix Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 He seems a little insensitive, or he is up to something. Keep your radar on and, if its possible, allow him the trust-space to prove himself or otherwise.
Guest Posted July 8, 2006 Posted July 8, 2006 Why should you have to worry about whether he's planning or having sex with this woman or not? Hiding the relationship for a year was a serious breach of trust, and dropping the acquaintance altogether would seem to simply be a matter of respect for your naturally wounded feelings and naturally damaged trust.
StrivingtoSucceed Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 It all boils down to trust and whether you can trust him, or not. My H's OW from a brief EA is someone that he also has contact with due to his business. Originally, they still talked two/three times a week, strictly business (although she ALWAYS tried to change the subject to personal), and it would drive me absolutely nuts. It only slowed down when SHE realized she wasn't getting anywhere with him, was only calling her if he had to for work, and from noticing (I believe) that everytime she would change the subject from work to personal, he would have to get off the phone. However, my H knew those limited calls still bothered me and knew (because I had told him) that even though I understood the need for the calls, eventually I would reach a point that I wasn't happy anymore and would do what I needed to do for myself. EA was last July, he told me in first week in August. They continued to talk through August, but towards the end is when he realized that to continue talking to her would ultimately end our marriage is when he slowed it down and started keeping the subject business. She did get upset and then didn't call him for a few months, but used any holiday as an excuse to call and see how he was doing and how things were going. He always said good and would immediately ask her what was up and if she stayed personal, he would get off the phone immediately. During this time, if he needed any supplies from her he started having someone else order them. Although, large orders (5000.00+) he still has to order, but I have noticed that he is ordering from her competitor more than her and not even getting a quote more than half the time (which is against company policy). I know he does this because he doesn't want the contact with her ... even though it would benefit the company. When he can't avoid it, he does have to talk with her and it is strictly business. Does she still try, a year later, to get him to talk personal, you betcha ... but he sticks to his guns and doesn't. So, while there is still contact from time-to-time, I trust my H and know their "friendship" will never again be anything other than work-related. You know ...it could be that your H and OW had talked about that vacation spot from when they talked and you didn't know it ... it didn't necessarily mean they talked about it right before your trip. And, his thoughtlessness in mentioning her name during your vacation was more than likely his way of thinking that you two are doing great and that mentioning her name in the context it was, didn't mean anything. Not man-bashing here, or anything, but sometimes men just don't get it. It might just be his way of letting you know that everything is o.k. ... you know, he can talk to her for work, and not let it interfer with your relationship. As long as he is doing everything in his power to make you feel comfortable, and those signs from before (angry outbursts, verbally abusive, etc.) are not there at all, even in the slightest, then the only thing you can do is let go, take that leap of faith and trust. Sometimes that lack of trust, while understandable, can lead to them cheating again because they think ... what the hell, I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.
Author lawrence angel Posted July 14, 2006 Author Posted July 14, 2006 Thanks for all of your interest in my situation, it does help to have other caring people listen to you. I finally told my husband lastnight that there should not be any more contact...period. I listened to a voice message she left him on his cell phone saying she was just calling to see how he was doing. This told me that all is not business related conversation. When I confronted him I did not let him know that I heard this, just that I knew of all the cell phone calls still going on. He admitted that he still calls her from time to time just to see how she is doing with business. I said we agreed that phone calls would only be about doing business together and making money from it, not just chit chat how ya doin stuff. He also admitted that when they were engaged in their friendship that he never saw it as crossing the line because there was no sex, and they did not talk about being together, but now that he looks back, he sees that something could have happened between them if he and I had ended our relationship or she had ended hers, but at the time it never crossed his mind, and he said he should have never put himself in that position. He also said that she was aware at the time that she should not call when I was around and that she knew HE called her when I was not around. She was in a relationship with a married man who divorced his wife for her within the time period of all this. I have been solely blaming my husband for his actions in all this, should I blame her too?? She has called our house in the recent past for business reasons and has been so extremely sweet to me on the phone. Sometimes I think I should call her and tell her what I know and that she should have more respect for herself and other married people. Or I think maybe I should ask my husband to call her and tell her they can no longer do business together because he broke our trust by keeping their friendship a secret and that our marriage is his number one priority. Is any of this appropriate or should my husband do what he wants to do and tell her everytime she calls that he is too busy to take on any more work. I feel like this could linger on for years, if that happened?? How does someone end something like this without being irrational? If you are interested in reading my whole story, you should click on my username and do so, it is quite interesting. I have a total of 3 threads about this drama.
StrivingtoSucceed Posted July 14, 2006 Posted July 14, 2006 He also admitted that when they were engaged in their friendship that he never saw it as crossing the line because there was no sex .... My H also said the same thing ... no sex, no affair, right? Wrong. And in reality, that is just their way of not admitting guilt. He, and your husband, knew it was wrong from the beginning, otherwise they wouldn't have hidden the so-called friendship in the first place. He also said that she was aware at the time that she should not call when I was around and that she knew HE called her when I was not around. Another example of him knowing it was wrong to begin with. My H and OW only shared phone calls during work, never at night, or on the weekends ... hmmm, funny ... I have always been under the impression that friends are people who can call your home at any time and can do things with their families together. She was in a relationship with a married man who divorced his wife for her within the time period of all this. This is interesting. What happened with this married man who divorced his wife for her? It seems this woman is a very insecure person and I'm pretty sure if you place yourself outside of the box, you will begin to see the many reasons why I say that. The OW that I had to deal with - her husband left her nine years ago for another woman. She has been single since then. Of course, she has dated, but interestingly enough the only guys she has dated have been taken men, engaged or married. Her defense is that they lied to her and she found out after the fact they were taken. O.K., I could believe that once, maybe twice ... but after that I would think you would be way more cautious on who you dated. Add to the fact I know of two people who she started a relationship with knowing they were taken, one of which was my H. The other ... the morning after she slept with him she called his fiance' to meet for lunch and tell her what a horrible man he was, but she didn't know he was engaged. Um, since the guy worked for the same company, was the owner's nephew and everyone at the company, including those she worked with at the head office, knew he was engaged I find it very hard to believe she didn't know he was engaged until after she slept with him. What is my point here? It is that I think if she were to ever have had a man actually leave their SO for her, it wouldn't have worked out. She liked the chase. She liked feeling the power. She enjoyed having part of the man, but not all of them. However, she wouldn't have liked the whole man, nor would she have stayed. Why? Because she is afraid of committment. I'm sure she has her reasons, but yeah - I have a problem with her for trying to destroy other relationships in her quest for whatever it is she is really looking for. I have been solely blaming my husband for his actions in all this, should I blame her too?? Easy to do and a normal reaction. Yes, both of them are to blame. Before I go on I have to say that most times I can see the OW's point of view and the majority of the blame should fall on the straying partner. I mean, after all, they are the ones who made the promise to you, not the OW/OM. Additionally, it would be the straying partner who was the one who actually crossed the line. Everyday I'm sure you have people pay attention to you ... but you choose not to even go there. I think in the MAJORITY of OW/OM cases, the married person is lying to the other person and telling them how horrible the marriage is. Generally, they are the ones who do the chasing because they are "so unhappy." Now, with that said I also know from experience, along with other BS on here, that there are some OW/OM where they purposely go after a married person. Their intention is not for friendship. But, the same blame can apply here as well ... it is the straying partner who let it actually happen. I have thought of many, many ways I can "get back" at the OW. Mean, spiteful things. Hateful things. Hurtful things. But you know what ... that isn't me and I have a firm believe that what goes around comes around. To call her, for anything ... only gives her power. The sweetest revenge ... staying together with your husband (of course, as long as you are happy and both committed) and totally ignoring her presence. You do, however, need to figure out if you can accept a continued business relationship with them. Since he promised you that it would only be for business, and he has since admitted that he has called her from time to time to see how she is doing, and you know for a fact she has done the same, then you should probably tell him that it is either all, or nothing. You will not play second-fiddle and you will not accept any type of friendship between them at all. If he/you/your family can afford to lose her business entirely, then tell him so. If you can't, then tell him he can do what he wants, he is, after all an adult. But, if the calls continue in any way, shape, or form, you will eventually reach the end and leave. Remember this when dealing with him - if you act as his parent and tell him what he can/can't do, he is going to rebel just like any "child." If you treat him as an adult and not only recognize he can make his own decision, but tell him he owns all his actions, then you are not allowing him to place blame anywhere but on himself. You can let him know you will not accept the calls to be anything remotely related to personal. But, you can't make him MAKE them that way. He has to do it. He has to own all his actions and take responsibility for them. The more I pushed my H to end it, the more he fought against it. The moment I stopped pushing is when he started fighting for us. You won't see this because it will be an internal fight only he can see/feel. I feel like this could linger on for years, if that happened?? How does someone end something like this without being irrational? None of this is rational and you will never be able to make any sense out of it. Stop trying to. The more you do, the more you will get unanswered questions. It will become a vicious cycle. You have to let it go. You have to reach the point that you know YOU have done all that you can do and take care of yourself. He will notice. He will see what he stands to lose. I too thought it would linger on forever. Sometimes I still think that. Like a few weeks ago when she called AGAIN. I really thought I was going to go over there and lose control over her and beat her senseless. But you know what .... my husband is happy right where he is at. He isn't going anywhere. She lost. She has no hold over him ... and more importantly, over me. Let her go, and start living your life. Make sure your H is doing anything and everything that he needs to do. Make sure you are doing the same. She will, eventually, find some other fool to put her claws into ... don't give her the time of day. She really isn't worth any of your thoughts and/or time. You are better than that.
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