What do you think? (male perspectives especially)

[Devrapunzel]

I posted this under "second chances", but I'm going to try it here as well since this area seems to have more readers. Please help. Thanks!

 

Hi all,

 

O.k. I'm new to this forum and really hoping that I can get some objective opinions (especially any male perspectives). I apologize if this is too long - I'll summarize the best I can.

 

My ex-fiance and I just broke up two weeks ago and I moved out of the house we own together. We were together two years. The bottom-line issue was whether or not to have children. I really want kids and have made this clear since we first starting dating. He gave me every indication that he was on board even "trying" to make that happen. I became pregnant last year and he reacted very poorly, but eventually came around. Unfortunately I miscarried.

 

He proposed to me in October 2005 and included "wanting to have a family with me" and so forth in his proposal. We bought a house together in December 2005. Since then, he has been back and forth on the child issue....literally saying one thing one week and the complete opposite the next week. A month ago, on my birthday, he told me how much he wanted kids with me and that he was really ready for it. Two weeks later, he said the exact opposite again, telling me he was scared he was too old (he just turned 40 - I just turned 38), etc. I couldn't handle the constant rollercoaster and finally moved out. I didn't want to break things up, just wanted to give both of us space. He said that we're broken up then.

 

So here we are now: He needs to refinance the house in his name only to get my name off the mortgage. He doesn't want to do this right away (although it's only hurting him financially by waiting) and has asked me to "wait a few weeks". He says "once he refinances, then it's over in his mind" and "that's too final". He said he needs time to think and that he's confused. He said he has no plans to see other people. He said I should go ahead and see other people if I want, but that it probably isn't a good idea if I still have feelings for him. (I wasn't planning to anyway so soon). Meanwhile, I had to stop at the house to pick up some mail a few days ago and I noticed our photo is still up. Furthermore, he seemed miserable.

 

It has been four days since we have talked and I'm trying the no contact plan - just giving him space and time to think.

 

So tell me wise people out there: how do you interpret this? Is he seriously contemplating things (having children, etc.) Or am I hanging on to false hope here? Why is he waiting on the mortage? Why is our photo still up? etc. What is really going on?

 

I'm going crazy here and would rather be "home". However, I don't want to even think about that option if it is not an option in the first place. It seems odd to me to be asking for opinions at my age (shouldn't I have it all figured out? Ha!), but I'll swallow my pride and put it out there anyway.

 

Any help would be soooo appreciated. Thanks!

 

Peace,

Dev

[Diver012]

If its going to work out for both of you, your going to have to start communicating. I do not think that his fears of having children will simply go away on their own, or they already would have. I would consider going to counseling together and seeing if things can be fixed. It sounds to me like he is afraid of the responsibilities that having a child brings perhaps.. dunno, but if you both really want to be together, I would try to get him to a couples counselor.... just my opinion

[Devrapunzel]

Thanks Diver for your input. We went to couples counseling twice and then he was done. It seemed to make him angry - didn't like when the counselor "cornered" him on an issue.

 

Am I doing the right thing with no contact? He wanted some time to think so I'm trying to respect this. How do you interpret his waiting on the mortgage as well as keeping our photo up?

[rugbyrob1990]

Hi Devera, OK this is my opinion and I'm 39 and understand where both of you are comming from! First, how long have you dated and have you had any problems before this? It's been my experience as a man when I can't make up my mind regarding an issue importaint to my other half its becasue I usually don't want to do it.. Having kids at age 40 is not to old and not uncommon in todays society. And the fact that he is changing his mind every week concerns me also, if he truly loves you and has said in the past he wants kids, he wants them, he's just questioning if he wants to have them with you. (I know that sounds hatefull, but i'm afraid that is the truth). Now, you have moved out of the house and i assume paying half the morgage and wanting him back, he's in no rush to have you move back in. That is why he wants to wait on refini. and he's throughing the "if I refinance than it's over" is B$%# Sh#% he's laying a huge guilt trip on you.

 

I ask, is there any thing your leaving out, for example have both of you been fathful and loyal, do you argue alot, is he unemployeed or does he feel your suficating him. Please give us a complet picture of this relationship.. I wish you didn't have this pain, but hopefully we can help... Rob:D

[Devrapunzel]

Rob, thanks for the response. To answer some of your questions: we have been together for two years. We became engaged 8 months ago and bought the house 6 months ago. We have both been faithful. The only thing we ever argued about was his wishy-washiness on the kid issue. Admittedly, I was getting sick of the back and forth and started letting him know. He perceived this as pressure. He said that he had never really thought about having kids before he met me. He also has said that he wouldn't have kids without me - 99% sure he wouldn't have them with someone else if we split up. (so, your honest comment wasn't taken as hateful - I could see why you might say that - not the case here though.)

 

Since I moved out, I do NOT pay anything towards the mortgage. He told me waiting on refinancing the mortgage in his name only was truly because he felt that once that happened, it would be final. He feels like it would be more of a pain to potentially work things out in the future once we completed that financial step. He admits that waiting to do so is only hurting him financially due to rising interest rates (and the fact that I would continue to get half of the equity once he buys me out whether or not I've been paying on it). I was the one bringing up the refinancing and it was him who has asked me to please wait a bit.

 

So does that change your opinion on the whole "waiting on the mortgage" issue? Any comments on the photo still up? My voice still on his answering machine announcement?

 

The pain is intense. The waiting during NC is excruciating. I'm thinking NC is the best thing for me to do. Agreed? I'm not interested in playing games here, but I do want to allow some space if need be.

[Devrapunzel]

Hey Rob,

 

Still out there? I'm curious as to your response to my response to your response! whew.

 

Dev

[rugbyrob1990]

Hi Dev, I reading your post now, and I will respond..

[rugbyrob1990]

Thanks for explaining everything!! Well, first Yes I think you should contine with NC, I'm struggling with that as well.. I want to stop writting you right now and go drive by her house, but I hope I won't. I'm afraid of what I might see.

 

Back to you! You sound like such an increadable girlfriend, I don't know what he is thinking, but it sounds like children are the top priortiy to you and maybe him second? I ask, is it possible that he may be thinking that after you have kids that your life together will change.. ie. your sex life, his freedom to go out with friends or just the fact you will be to focused on your new baby and forget about him... That is a huge concern for me, I'm a very sucessful person however, I need the love and attention of the woman I love... I think I would make a good dad but at what price.

 

You guys sound like you had a great relationship, don't through it away... Has he made any effort to contact you? have you been married before? do you have any kids right now?

 

I look forward to hearing from you... Rob

[Devrapunzel]

Rob,

 

Don't drive by her house....keep reading these posts for now. (and if you MUST drive by, wait for it to get dark outside first!)

 

Yes, I was a great girlfriend. He said this a lot. He also took me for granted at times. There were times when he wasn't as respectful as he should have been. There were countless times when strange as well as familiar men would come up to him and say how lucky he was. I really think that just made him insecure. I think he's very confused right now.

 

He did once say that he was worried that once we had a baby all my attention would be on the child and not him. He also mentioned that we wouldn't have the freedom we have now, he wouldn't have the energy at his age, etc.

 

I'm really anxious about all of this and am obsessing with analysis. So, I ask again, in light of my new posts, does any of this change your opinion on the whole "waiting on the mortgage" issue? Any comments on the photo still up? My voice still on his answering machine announcement?

I do not want to hold out false hope and be strung along. Yet, if he is consciously thinking about things, then great.

 

Curious as to your thoughts...

 

Thanks!

Dev

[rugbyrob1990]

Hi Dev, well as to your voice on your answering machine, don't read too much into that it's an oversight.. Also, men "this man" has a very hard time letting go of things we become attached to, ie girlfriends, old underware, old pictures and letters from old g/f. Even if we have fallen out of love with someone its nice to look back and say "at one time she really dug me". At 40 your ex should be mature enough to just say that he does or doen't want to be with you AND he should be able to sacrafice his needs for yours and that would be having a family... I wish so much the tables were turned and YOU were my g/f and not him, because i'm so ready for children:love: . And not to mention you sound really pretty!! Again, don't lose sight of the fact that the little things you keep analyzing mean nothing... The picture? What else is he going to put there his old BMX trophies.. or that time in 1988 he won a pie eating contest. No, he want's everyone to think your coming back.. I know that is what I did.

 

Where did you guy meet? were you ever married...

[rugbyrob1990]

Dev, how many days of NC?

[rugbyrob1990]

Hi Dev, are you in love with this guy or the idea of being in love? That makes a pretty big diference. I was head over heals in love with my girl friend, that's what makes this so hard to understand.. after we broke up we started talking and emailing several times a week. I thought, "I must prove to this girl that i mean long term" so I bought her a $25,000 engagement ring 3 weeks ago. 8 days after that I found out she had been emailing some meathead from work and I exploded... She said that it was only going on for a day or so but, she got angry, I was angry and she said she didn't want to see me ever again.. that hurt! I haven't taken the ring back yet, but I wanted to ask what you thought about this: When we first started dating (January '06) my company was doing ok, but after I stared dating her my whole attitude towads life changed. I was excited to go to work (im president of a political consulting firm) I solicited contracts that I never thought I would get and my life was on a pink cloud. Well than in early May she freaks out and wants a break. All of the sudden those contracts I bid on were accepted and my salary jumped way into 6 figures... This was all a result of her, she didn't even know it, but her love inspired do become a better man. And now, my professional life is the best it's ever been, but my personal life just sucks!! I want so bad to tell her how much she inspired me to do better but I'm afraid of another rejection.

 

Now, this is where the ring comes back in to play.. She has an 8 yo and hes a great kid, she doen't make alot of money and when I get my $25,000 back from the ring I would like to purchase a $10,000 college savings bond for him... His mother will need to be custodian of the money untill 18, so I don't know how she will react...What do you think.. Rob

[Devrapunzel]

Well Robb, it's only been 4 days of NC, but feels like 44. This is the longest we've ever gone without talking.

 

O.K. I don't really get what you're saying about the photo thing. If he wants everyone to think I'm coming back, then why not just ask me???? Yes, he could put old BMX trophies in place of the photo (or to be succinct, old motorcross trophies!), but why not just take it down. I know his style which is to immediately get rid of stuff that reminds him of heartache. Yeah, yeah, I'm overanalyzing, but 'tis true.

 

Previously, I was married before for seven years (total realtionship was 10 years). Our problem was that we married way too young (engaged at 19). My current ex was never married. In fact, I'm the longest relationship he has had in the last 10 years. Neither of us have kids.

 

I still don't know what to make of the mortgage issue. Care to touch that? I guess I can take him at face value on it and just grant him the time. You're right, at 40 he should know. I'm not sure what a few weeks of waiting on the mortgage will help him figure out, but I'm suspecting he wants to see just how much (or how little) he misses me while apart. I also suspect he really needs some serious quiet time to contemplate the kid issue. He says refinancing seems too final for him and it would be a big pain in the ass to go through all of that if we end up reconciling. He wanted more time (like a couple of months) and I said no. I will only agree to one month of waiting on that one. Financial stuff can get too messy. IMO, he should know in a few weeks what he would know in a few months.

 

O.K. I'm getting long-winded here....too summarize, I kind of see your point on the photo/answering machine stuff, but not on the mortgage. That's just too big. Thoughts?

 

Dev

[Devrapunzel]

Yes, I defintely love the guy. I've been in love with the idea of love in the past so I definitely know the difference.

 

I am so sorry about the gf. What is she thinking? Honestly, my best guess from a female perspective is that she got scared. You two were back in touch after breaking up and suddenly you go for the whole enchilada. She may not have been thinking that far ahead yet. My best friend was dating a guy she liked and he got too serious in the beginning (roses in the first week, etc.) and she freaked. She was still into the chase I think. Humans can be so silly with regard to matters of the heart.

 

How long has your NC been with her? Let her think about all of this for awhile. It sounds like you're a great guy and no meathead at her work will erase that fact. That's so cool that work is going so well for you. At this point, I would NOT tell her how much she inspired you. If she's scared, that might put her over the edge. Tell her in the future, but not now. I would also hold off with the $10,000 bond for her son. Again, for the same reasons as above. I'm not saying you shouldn't ever do it, but don't do this right now. It may be perceived as other than what was intended.

 

I know it's so hard to wait. Alas, it seems like the most effective way.

[rugbyrob1990]

Dev, did you see what I wrote about the ring? I think you did the right thing by only giving him 30 days.. HAS HE TRIED TO MAKE CONTACT WITH YOU? By the way, thanks for the advice on not driving by her house, that is pain I don't want to deal with... What time zone are you in im central.. I'm going to need some time to think about you situation with the morgage.. I'm trying to think of why I would do that... With me, I sometimes fall in love with a woman after she is gone. Why is that? Also, you never ramble, the more details we give each other the better we can help. I will get back to you on the morgage, but I want you to try and get some sleep tonight. Do you have plans for the 4th?

 

Talk soon Rob

[rugbyrob1990]

Dev,

Thanks for your comments, that was very sweet!! Wow, that is so funny that you said that, i too think I freaked her out, my intensity level was way to high! I also think that sex runied it for us, we were so physically atracted to each other that at the end that is all I wanted. She had mentioned that before we split but I guess I ignored her, because when she didn't feel like it I took it as a rejection and became resentful... not healty on my part... I think i'm going to bed I hope to talk to you through out the day tomorrow... Rob

[Devrapunzel]

HAppy 4th of July to all! (I'm finding sad, sick meaning in the whole "independence day" thing, but that's just where I'm at.)

 

Rob, hope you're feeling stronger today. To answer your questions, I'm in the central time zone. Yes, I do have some plans for the holiday today. Thank God. And you?

 

Thought any more about my mortgage issue? Day 5 of NC and I'm freaking out...

[rugbyrob1990]

Good afternoon and Happy 4th to u! I've been thinking about your morgage situation and this is what I think he is doing!! Evaluating, yep he's evaluating everything... He's fourty years old, he has a seemingly hot and sweet g/f (who is very insistaint about having kids, of which your NOT EVEN MARRIED YET) and he doesn't want to scare you away by being honest.. The morgage is the one thing that is holding a conection to both of u. And, the fact you brought up the "get me off the note" makes him realize that that is important to you. He isn't going to surender that power until he knows it over.. He's right, when it goes in his name it's over... So, take caution when pushing him on this...

 

With all due respect Dev, why are you so persistant about kids when your not even married yet. Is he just the sperm doner? If I were him maybe that is what I would think. I dunno, maybe your being to hard on him with your childern demands... He once said he want's a family, let it be until after you married then have an adult conversation regarding the subject.

 

I'm on day 13 today of NC and i'm getting so much better. I know your hurting but keep busy all day today.. if you get board, go walk around the mall just keep moving or writting on here.. Talk soon Rob

[rugbyrob1990]

Hi Dev, are you doing ok? Haven't heard from you!!

[Devrapunzel]

Hi Rob,

 

Yeah, I'm doing o.k. Six days of NC and hanging in there.

 

I was with friends yesterday so I wasn't around to post.

 

How are you?

[Devrapunzel]

Help! Need a quick response to this (Rob, if you're out there - or anyone with an opinion - I could really use the help right now). I am tempted to break NC with a phone call to him tonight. It's been six days of NC which may seem like nothing to a lot of you. In the two years of being with him, we have never not spoken for this long. With so much on the line (ie. mortgage), doesn't six days seem excessive in this case? Would a call be perceived as not giving him time to think? This is maddening.

[alphamale]

getting married and having children is an extremely tough decision for most men. it means the loss of our freedom and independence. from what you said I think he does want those things but he is hesitant to admit it. the proof is how he reacted when you became pregnant the 1st time.

 

maybe you should stop taking the pill & not tell him or put little pin-holes in the rubbers , no, just kidding

[Devrapunzel]

So Alpha, it seems like you're suggesting to just continue NC since these are "extremely tough decisions for most men"? I need an emergency opinion because I'm wanting to call him NOW.

 

Your condom idea is cute although I'd never resort to such trickery! However, we hadn't been using birth control this last year anyway.

[alphamale]

However, we hadn't been using birth control this last year anyway.

most men who don't want kids will insist that their female partner take the pill or at the least he will use condoms....

[Devrapunzel]

most men who don't want kids will insist that their female partner take the pill or at the least he will use condoms....

 

Hmm...o.k.,,well, that helps. It tells me that he isn't 100% against having children. I think he's definitely working through some fears about it then.

 

So do I call tonight? Seriously, I'm on the verge of caving here and don't want to potentially push him away by not allowing him to have thinking time or whatever. Six days of NC just seems long for this situation. Continue NC?