Patricia's situation

[Patricia]

What I did when my xMM started talking to me was that I asked him a lot of questions. He kept telling me how horrible he feels, how he hated that he hurt me so badly and that he loves me. From there, I started asking him questions so that I could understand what was in his head. He told me about the fear of hurting his kids if he leaves the marriage. He talked of the pain it would cause if he left. Finally he talked about the pain if he stayed.

 

After asking a lot of questions and responding back and forth with him, I said to him, that he can only be fair to others when he is fair to himself. First, he is in an emotionally unfulfilling relationship. How is it fair to deny his wife love because he feels it for me? How is it fair to his children to stay emotionally numb and let them think that's what they should be aiming for? Then I told him that in truth, the only obstacle for us to be together is himself. That he is the hurdle that he needs to get over. He needs to evaluate his marriage and take the kids out of the equation and find out what they have as a couple.

 

Honestly, I wasn't going to start talking with my xMM. He choose to go down this road and this time, I don't think he's turning back to go home. At least I don't think so. I have never seen him more rationally certain about a future with me. I still am afraid to hope for a future with him, but I'm also not afraid of a future to be on my own.

 

Lizzie, take the time to find out who you are and what you want in life. No one can bring you happiness as that comes from within. The only thing that someone can do is add value to your life by giving you love... with that, hopefully there is fulfillment of the purest form.

 

Good luck.

 

zarathustra - I too asked my MM the very same questions and received the same answers. The times he went back, he admitted he was doing things to convince her he loved her. He needed to stay for his kids. One thing that came out of my questioning was, how could he keep hurting people he cared about. He said he knew he needed to see someone for help. But its been a year ago he said that. He did attempt at one visit on a friday, April 28.

 

By that time, he was telling me he made a mistake and wanted to be with me.

Today has been really hard on me. MM had his second court date for his D this morning. He's been stressed out since his first mediation visit this past Tuesday. I've been supporting, loving, and making sure I didn't do anything that might cause him to rethink what he was doing. But still, I can't put my finger on it, but for days I've had this gut feeling that he is ready to leave again. He hasn't been acting like himself for one thing. And yes I know this D is putting him through alot and I understand that.

When he dropped me off at my office this am, I just told him to hang in there, that I was here if he needed me.

Backing up a bit, I have a neighbor, a single guy, whom I am not real close to. He doesn't respect women, and seems to brag alot. You know the type. Of course from the first time MM moved in with me, he met the neighbor. MM knew my feelings about my neighbor. Last July, when MM left me for the second time to return to W, (for the kids he said). The very next weekend, my neighbor comes over to tell me something, he said he felt I should know that MM called him and invited him to a BBQ party at his home. I was crushed. Why would MM have a party? what was to celebrate? I thought he was just as hurt to leave me too. Well I told MM I knew about party. He only got angry at neighbor for running and telling me. Said he'd never speak to him again. But they still did, MM returned to me and stayed month of Feb/Apr. Left for 4 weeks, back with me now. This am, I call my neighbor on his cell; told him I was afraid that I left water running in kitchen sink, could he hear any water running, could he turn off my water if he did? Neighbor says, there is something I think you should know, but don't say I told you. Two weeks ago, those two were outside in driveway talking, and MM tells him that he wasn't going to be living here for very long, that he was going to find himself his own place, that way (he says) he can start dating other chicks. Also neighbor says, even before that conversation; MM talks about some hot chick at work that he's been talking with. I think MM believes that because I don't care for my neighbor, I'd never hear what he says, but neighbor says today, he knows how much hurt MM has put me through, seen him come and go. He had to tell me. But he also says, maybe it was just "guy talk" you know, just BSing.

I was so devastated after this. MM hadn't called because I assumed he was still at court. On my lunch period, I decide to walk around the facilities see, if his car is in his parking area. Wasn't sure if I would go into his bldg. and drop into his office. I'm walking by, and guess who pulls into the parking lot.

I start walking towards him, I can see him on cell talking. He sees me, but continued talking. I went to passenger side, and he opens door for me to come in. (He spends alot of time on cell; in his work he's all over facilities, buyers, constructions people, etc. always calling.) But clearly he was talking to daughter trying to convince her to go away with mother and brothers out of town and have a good time. I believe he was talking to daughter.

But last night, W called, completely out of control, said to MM that she couldn't handle kids, they were out of control and she was dropping them off. He told her to get a grip. He spoke to oldest son about fighting with little brother, son says, I'll do what I want, you're not here. You don't care about us. MM ends that call, later calls again speaking to teenage daughter, she tells him W is wigging out because of court date today. Guess she finally just went to bed.

So him talking to daughter made sense to me. But when he finished call, I looked him in his face and told him what my neighbor said. He acted like, that's all lies, I have enough on my mind without #@#* like that. So I say, its lies? Of course, I expected him to deny it all.

Right now, with the way the past few days have been, the indifference to me that I've seen in MM, even though he says everything is okay with us. I remember how I felt to come home that day and find him and his things gone. I don't want to go through that pain again. Part of me wants to tell him to get out. I'm tired of the lies. Now I wonder; he's hoping for his share of house money in divorce; does he plan on moving when he does? Is he done with W and really wants divorce; but is he using me as a temporary place to stay until he has money? Right now, he is so much in debt, that paying child support and alimony doesn't leave him much after paying bills. So I've agreed to wait and he hasn't been paying any rent, etc. Once in a while he buys food. He said he hopes I understand that we can't do a whole lot until he gets out from under all his debts. He doesn't want this money problem to hurt our relationship. Of course, I was the understanding person he knew I would be and not pressure him.

We have from tomorrow until next week thursday off. I don't know if I should ask him to leave, like tonite! I'm hurting so much right now, yet when MM has called me at work, I've acted as if nothing is wrong. WHAT DO I DO??

[Lizzie_D]

I agree with MarnieGirl, Patricia. Your own thread would be really useful, and you would get a lot of support and answers. Your situation sounds really tough. You say he seems indifferent at the moment, that may be because he has a lot on his mind with all the sorting out. Give him a bit of time, men are useless if they have too many things to think about.

 

Also the man next door may be lying. Perhaps he is jealous and is trying to stir things up. Keep an open mind.

[RealityCheck]

zarathustra - I too asked my MM the very same questions and received the same answers. The times he went back, he admitted he was doing things to convince her he loved her. He needed to stay for his kids. One thing that came out of my questioning was, how could he keep hurting people he cared about. He said he knew he needed to see someone for help. But its been a year ago he said that. He did attempt at one visit on a friday, April 28.

 

By that time, he was telling me he made a mistake and wanted to be with me.

Today has been really hard on me. MM had his second court date for his D this morning. He's been stressed out since his first mediation visit this past Tuesday. I've been supporting, loving, and making sure I didn't do anything that might cause him to rethink what he was doing. But still, I can't put my finger on it, but for days I've had this gut feeling that he is ready to leave again. He hasn't been acting like himself for one thing. And yes I know this D is putting him through alot and I understand that.

When he dropped me off at my office this am, I just told him to hang in there, that I was here if he needed me.

Backing up a bit, I have a neighbor, a single guy, whom I am not real close to. He doesn't respect women, and seems to brag alot. You know the type. Of course from the first time MM moved in with me, he met the neighbor. MM knew my feelings about my neighbor. Last July, when MM left me for the second time to return to W, (for the kids he said). The very next weekend, my neighbor comes over to tell me something, he said he felt I should know that MM called him and invited him to a BBQ party at his home. I was crushed. Why would MM have a party? what was to celebrate? I thought he was just as hurt to leave me too. Well I told MM I knew about party. He only got angry at neighbor for running and telling me. Said he'd never speak to him again. But they still did, MM returned to me and stayed month of Feb/Apr. Left for 4 weeks, back with me now. This am, I call my neighbor on his cell; told him I was afraid that I left water running in kitchen sink, could he hear any water running, could he turn off my water if he did? Neighbor says, there is something I think you should know, but don't say I told you. Two weeks ago, those two were outside in driveway talking, and MM tells him that he wasn't going to be living here for very long, that he was going to find himself his own place, that way (he says) he can start dating other chicks. Also neighbor says, even before that conversation; MM talks about some hot chick at work that he's been talking with. I think MM believes that because I don't care for my neighbor, I'd never hear what he says, but neighbor says today, he knows how much hurt MM has put me through, seen him come and go. He had to tell me. But he also says, maybe it was just "guy talk" you know, just BSing.

I was so devastated after this. MM hadn't called because I assumed he was still at court. On my lunch period, I decide to walk around the facilities see, if his car is in his parking area. Wasn't sure if I would go into his bldg. and drop into his office. I'm walking by, and guess who pulls into the parking lot.

I start walking towards him, I can see him on cell talking. He sees me, but continued talking. I went to passenger side, and he opens door for me to come in. (He spends alot of time on cell; in his work he's all over facilities, buyers, constructions people, etc. always calling.) But clearly he was talking to daughter trying to convince her to go away with mother and brothers out of town and have a good time. I believe he was talking to daughter.

But last night, W called, completely out of control, said to MM that she couldn't handle kids, they were out of control and she was dropping them off. He told her to get a grip. He spoke to oldest son about fighting with little brother, son says, I'll do what I want, you're not here. You don't care about us. MM ends that call, later calls again speaking to teenage daughter, she tells him W is wigging out because of court date today. Guess she finally just went to bed.

So him talking to daughter made sense to me. But when he finished call, I looked him in his face and told him what my neighbor said. He acted like, that's all lies, I have enough on my mind without #@#* like that. So I say, its lies? Of course, I expected him to deny it all.

Right now, with the way the past few days have been, the indifference to me that I've seen in MM, even though he says everything is okay with us. I remember how I felt to come home that day and find him and his things gone. I don't want to go through that pain again. Part of me wants to tell him to get out. I'm tired of the lies. Now I wonder; he's hoping for his share of house money in divorce; does he plan on moving when he does? Is he done with W and really wants divorce; but is he using me as a temporary place to stay until he has money? Right now, he is so much in debt, that paying child support and alimony doesn't leave him much after paying bills. So I've agreed to wait and he hasn't been paying any rent, etc. Once in a while he buys food. He said he hopes I understand that we can't do a whole lot until he gets out from under all his debts. He doesn't want this money problem to hurt our relationship. Of course, I was the understanding person he knew I would be and not pressure him.

We have from tomorrow until next week thursday off. I don't know if I should ask him to leave, like tonite! I'm hurting so much right now, yet when MM has called me at work, I've acted as if nothing is wrong. WHAT DO I DO??

 

 

Patricia....

 

Try not to take on his problems as though they are your own! They are not your problems. What you need to do is work on you! Totally unselfishly YOU!

 

Many times people tend to take on other peoples stuff and it only adds to the stress of what you are feeling. Let him sort out his "stuff"! The one thing you have control of is "what is yours". Your "stuff" is your well being! Ask yourself, "what is he doing for ME". The reality is, he is bringing you into his world that only "HE" can resolve.

 

Focus on what is yours, not what is his.

[Patricia]

Patricia....

 

Try not to take on his problems as though they are your own! They are not your problems. What you need to do is work on you! Totally unselfishly YOU!

 

Many times people tend to take on other peoples stuff and it only adds to the stress of what you are feeling. Let him sort out his "stuff"! The one thing you have control of is "what is yours". Your "stuff" is your well being! Ask yourself, "what is he doing for ME". The reality is, he is bringing you into his world that only "HE" can resolve.

 

Focus on what is yours, not what is his.

 

He's lied to me so much in the past. My gutfeel tells me when he says everything is okay, he is lying and still planning on leaving.

I have been telling myself all day, if he leaves me, then he is really doing me a favor. Its not right the way I've been feeling; my insides in knots, it's no way to be.

End of April when he asked to come back to me, he said that he knew he had alot to do, to earn my trust back in him. That he knows how much he's hurt me and caused me so much pain the past two years. I just keep believing him each and every time he's come back and says that he's made a mistake, he wants to be with me. Now I wonder, I have my own home, is he just using me until he finds someplace else to go? I do believe he is really done with the W. But who knows, he'd convince himself that he would be better off there, at least financially, that'd he'd probably go back again. He can't afford his own place right now. At least not until he gets money out of a divorce settlement. I believe he loves me, its just that he doesn't face things, he admits he just runs away from things. If he decides he's unhappy with me, what would stop him from betraying me? He's done it to the W.

[RealityCheck]

Patricia,

 

I'm going to post a response in your own thread so as not to hijack Lizzie's thread.

 

I will too! Lizzie needs support here as well as you. I'll post in your thread!

[movinon05]

Boy this is getting confusing! lol!

 

Patricia,

 

I'm a little more concerned now about what is going on. I don't know what to make of this neighbor and what he's saying. It seems to me you need more of a sit down talk with MM, rather than these one liners thrown out in the heat of the moment.

 

From my own experience with my exMM, whenever he left, his W called him constantly about every possible little thing regarding the kids, or home, or whatever. Things she would normally handle on her own. She told me I won the prize, and then dogged him constantly. And it worked as far as getting him back. But one thing he did not do to me is take it out on me verbally, abusively, etc. He didn't take his wrath out on me. I was the calm, to rationalize what was going on. But she made it difficult enough for him and involved the kids so that he couldn't stand up for himself.

 

As much as he is going through, and as much as you try to support him, he needs to know he cannot be taking this out on you all the time either. There has to be a happy medium, if you know what I mean.

 

I don't want to guess what he's thinking, because in the heat of all of this, the worries of finances, the constant calls, the kids not giving him respect, its all working on him.

 

Somewhere along the line, you really need to tell him how you feel other than sounding like a victim. You need to be able to talk to him openly about your feelings without getting repercussions for them. But in a sit down conversation where you can both get your feelings out. He really should be realizing he's not helping your situation. This whole thing sounds like its spiraling out of control.

[RealityCheck]

Patricia....

 

Try not to take on his problems as though they are your own! They are not your problems. What you need to do is work on you! Totally unselfishly YOU!

 

Many times people tend to take on other peoples stuff and it only adds to the stress of what you are feeling. Let him sort out his "stuff"! The one thing you have control of is "what is yours". Your "stuff" is your well being! Ask yourself, "what is he doing for ME". The reality is, he is bringing you into his world that only "HE" can resolve.

 

Focus on what is yours, not what is his.

 

Is it my imagination or are my posts ending up everywhere.....lol

 

Sorry Partricia, I believe your intuitutive (gut) is your true little voice.

 

This MM sounds like he needs a Mommy. You are a real target in terms of leaving his marriage and setting up house for him to ride the wave in the Court Proceedings. If he really was sincere about you, he would find a place of his own and start fresh with you. Not having that dependency of knowing there is a warm, soft place to fall.

 

I can testify to my own experience, that I carried emotional baggage from my exH. I knew that if I formed any kind of a relationship with anyone I would be setting myself up for defeat.

 

Divorce is difficult, no matter who does the leaving. There is shared history and familiarity which is a hard habit to break. Until the habit is broken, and dealt with, one can only move forward into a healthy relationship.

 

My emotional baggage was the cause of my Affair. I am not ashamed to admit it, but that was my reality. I know that is not what I want and that it was a real eye opener to know I have a long way to go before I ever get to a place where I can honestly say, I have the real deal.

 

Whether it be your MM or my own experience in Divorce, being on one's own is the answer.

 

Don't allow yourself to be his saving grace. He needs to be his own!

 

Please don't misunderstand me that I think his feelings are not genuine for you because he most likelydoes! He just he needs to be a big boy and work on himself before you can establish something wonderful.

[Sami_D]

Hello again Patricia... I posted this on your recent thread. Not sure if you read it, but just in case:

 

 

Hello Patricia, I think I must have missed some/all of your story.

 

You know, they say that of those MM who do leave and D, the process of the D is actually the hardest part of the A. Just when you thought it was all going to be OK... along comes the toughest challenge. There is a forum on gloryb.com (a site I don't like, but they do have some intelligent discussion there from time to time) called 'Surviving Divorce' ... it's one of the quieter parts of the forum, and I found reading it to be extremely interesting.

 

One of the things I picked up there was the title of a book which many of those OW with Divorcing MM recommended. It is:

 

"How to Survive Your Boyfriend's Divorce", by Robyn Todd.

 

They all recommended it because it gave good solid advice on the emotions and thoughts that the Divorcing man will be going through, how they need space, but support, and how you as his lover can help..

 

I want to recommend this book AGAIN. Because it's not just about things going smoothly with divorce. It is written by a woman who had a divorcing boyfriend, and it didn't turn out. She uses many case studies, and her own experience, to pinpoint SIGNS that a dMM isn't following through... how to spot when you're just 'transitional woman'... etc. It takes you step by step through all the stages of D, and helps you to compare your story with others who were successful, and those who 'failed' (either from the MM going back, or from him moving on).

 

I think you would really, really, benefit from reading it. If nothing else, please go to Amazon or somewhere and read the reviews. See if they ring true for your situation. The reviews to me showed a lot of women who were woken up to a situation which was very bad for them. It allowed them to not get broken down and beaten by events, but to become self-aware, pro-active, and realise when it was time to call it quits.

 

Honestly, this is my best advice to you.

[bunset]

Is it my imagination or are my posts ending up everywhere.....lol

 

Sorry Partricia, I believe your intuitutive (gut) is your true little voice.

 

This MM sounds like he needs a Mommy. You are a real target in terms of leaving his marriage and setting up house for him to ride the wave in the Court Proceedings. If he really was sincere about you, he would find a place of his own and start fresh with you. Not having that dependency of knowing there is a warm, soft place to fall.

 

I can testify to my own experience, that I carried emotional baggage from my exH. I knew that if I formed any kind of a relationship with anyone I would be setting myself up for defeat.

 

Divorce is difficult, no matter who does the leaving. There is shared history and familiarity which is a hard habit to break. Until the habit is broken, and dealt with, one can only move forward into a healthy relationship.

 

My emotional baggage was the cause of my Affair. I am not ashamed to admit it, but that was my reality. I know that is not what I want and that it was a real eye opener to know I have a long way to go before I ever get to a place where I can honestly say, I have the real deal.

 

Whether it be your MM or my own experience in Divorce, being on one's own is the answer.

 

Don't allow yourself to be his saving grace. He needs to be his own!

 

Please don't misunderstand me that I think his feelings are not genuine for you because he most likelydoes! He just he needs to be a big boy and work on himself before you can establish something wonderful.

 

RC,

 

I am seeing this light ...

Every day, it seems, as if the heart flip flops. Having to maintain any relationship during such a time just doesn't help - the self healing, or the relationship. (and I havent even told my H I'm seeking D yet!)

 

Patricia, I have a gut feeling that RC is absolutely right. Your MM really needs to be doing all of this on his own, for himself.

Perhaps you should discuss ways that MM can get his own place and get his own head together. Sounds like a good time for individual counseling for each of you!