eyeswideshut Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 I've been feeling much better lately. It's as though I have accepted the fact that my MM and I will never be together in that way. Which is okay by me, because I could never handle a guy who is so undecisive. But this is the situation now. He came by two weeks ago, we had sex, we talked a lot, he was telling me that he loved me, and he knew this wasn't the ideal situation, and that if he were stronger right now, he'd have no problem to leave his wife, etc... Anyway. Since then, he only phoned to thank me, and then wrote a few times. Meanwhile, I have been following soccer (sorry PA, I was thrilled that the Italians won, god, I was there with my 10month old nephew and his cute Italian outfit), having a great time, and concentrating on my own life. Have been in contact with my ex, (soccer-related mostly, we were avid soccer fans and he's Italian), friends, planning a trip back home before my trip to Europe, etc... A few days ago, I watched Dr. Phil, and he was talking to a MM and this MM was such a loser and a liar, he basically wanted it all. My sister was watching with me too saying, what a total jerk!!! (she knows nothing about me and my MM) Then, during commercial break, my MM's wife is on TV. (she works for the local news company, but only now I think she is replacing someone on maternity leave) anyway, my sister was saying: wow, this girl is so exotic, do you think she is North African, Tunisian, or something? or Indian?) I just said: I don't f***ing care!!! That night it sort of hit me, his wife is so damn successful, she looked so good and put-together on tv. and then I get this email from him saying he is fantasizing about me all the time. Later that night, a friend from Europe called to tell me that the guy she's been seeing for 5 years, well, his wife phoned her and asked her if she was having an affair with her husband. Supposedly, her "dream man", who was single, busy, and caring for his mother, had a wife and a 21 year old daughter!!! My friend phoned and was a mess. She told me she's been lied to and this was the worst form of deceit, because she had no idea he was even married!!! After this I was thinking of the "mess" i'm in, and how my MM's wife is a real, nice, person who has no clue about her husbands whereabouts. It just got me so angry. Now I know I have to end it. But now, we only communicate once in awhile, and I love him as a brother, but what do I do? I mean, I hate him for being such a liar to his wife, and possibly with me. If I know we are never going to be together, but I still would like a friendship, am I not seegin clearly here, should i just cut all ties?? I know i'm going round and round here, and always attemtping NC, but to tell you the truth, we are almost like "friends", we don't call, we only email once in awhile, he knows he can't come over anymore, he hasn't been pushing, etc... he's just trying to get his career back on track since his brother died, and still doing his therapy. I mean he's not told me anything to give me hope, he's always been honest with his feelings for me, ex: It's comfortable at home, but I'm just not strong enough to make any decisions right now. blablabla. He also knows that I've been dating, he doesn't comment on that. Am I in the rollercoaster still? Is it necessary to break it off? (I'm not asking for my sake, because I've been feeling really good lately, or since I've realized we are only friends, I'm asking because of his wife, I just realized how much hurt I am causing her, since my friend from Europe phoned and since I saw her on TV, and realizing how real she is...) I know this sounds soo stupid I mean I've always known she existed, but now i just see her on tv every night and I see her rings on, and it's like, I so should not be in this situation....
RealityCheck Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 EWS.... We all spoke recently about a defining moment where we come to a self realization. Perhaps seeing his wife was your "trigger". Maybe that's what you needed to really see something in her for yourself. For me, I never wanted to see my exMM's wife, I never wanted to know where they lived and I didn't want to know the details of "their" life together. It was the exMM that would bring certain things forward if we were having a discussion and many times I stopped him in his tracks. The only question I needed answering is "WHY" he looked outside his marriage. I believe, I would have felt extremely uncomfortable if I actually saw her for many reasons. So I can understand completely of your immediate reaction. I have to ask the question on how are you coping with remaining friends. For me, I know I couldn't be friends after an "Affair", because of its complexity.
Author eyeswideshut Posted June 28, 2006 Author Posted June 28, 2006 well, I am able to cope with being friends maybe as a defensive reaction, i don't know what it is. I do love my MM, but it's a kind of love I have never felt before. It's as though I want whatever he wants, i want him to be happy, etc... I have known him since he was a little boy, and our "affair" was only 10 months out of all the years we've known one another. So to me, the friendship that "happened" and the intimacy was something I try to explain from an all encompassing viewpoint. (is that even a word) When we were together, we had just rekindled our friendship, actually, we were on our own after so many years of being friends as a gang. and in these moments i got to see the true him. which was beautiful and we had so may things in common. But he was going through a rough spot, (separation from his wife, then the sudden death of his brother) and I was going through a rough spot (breaking up with my fiance, making the life-altering decision to not get married last year). So I kind of see what we had for what it was. We had each other, an even if it was a secret, it was so necessary, we were going through so much pain, we were both grieving and talking about our grief more than anything. now, in retrospect, we have sort of come to our sense, and he realized he couldn't deal with divorce right now, so i shifted into friend mode. That's all i could do. Because before all this, and even during all this, we were always honest with one another, and we valued the friendship, even though we didn't understand where it was going. Sort of like, I was put in his path one month before his brother died. He was put into my path one month before my ex showed up into my life and tried to win me back. It's so odd. It all happened on the same day. When I phoned him a week after his brother died, i told him, you have no idea who just walked into my life and is creating havoc on my mental health. And he said, well, on the same day, my brother died. maybe we're meant to meet people at certain times in our lives. I don't regret one moment. Except the past few months, when he said he was no longer separating, and we continued the affair. Now i "know" our friendship is wrong. Whereas before, it was just so right. thanks for responding... i wonder if i should just end the friendship
stillafool Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 Wow EWS that's incredible to see the W on TV. I don't know how I would react. I don't think at this point the two of you can really be friends. Especially since you just slept with him two weeks ago. You need more time. As for worry about the W's feelings that is kind of you but you need to nurse your own wounds first. I do think we are meant to meet people at certain points in our lives maybe for "life's lessons" that we need to learn. It must be so hard to break friendship with someone you have known all your life but I think it's the only thing you can do at this point.
RealityCheck Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 EWS... Wow! Having known him for so very long that certainly puts a whole new spin on "remaining friends" where you both are concerned. See its these little things that make an "Affair" so complicated. I don't know EWS whether you should maintain the friendship. I honestly don't. I didn't have that "long" friendship connection as you have described with you and your MM. The only person that could answer that truly, would be yourself. Perhaps another "OW" that has faced the same, can be of more help to you. I do wish you peace in whatever you decide.
Author eyeswideshut Posted June 28, 2006 Author Posted June 28, 2006 thanks girls, RC did you get around PMing me? I don't even know how I would check that, I've never been PMed before. how would i check it? just wondering how you were doing. i hope when i get back from Europe i will have had ample time to gain perspective on our "friendship". affairs are so draining. i have so much love to give.
UnknowingOW Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 I just did the same thing...shifted to "friend" mode. With my MM. I really don't think it's a good idea to be honest with you or me. But I do understand your feelings of trying to be friends when they are in a difficult situation. But is it fair to you? RC is so right...I was thinking how damn complicated the affair becomes. We are like chess pieces countermoving in sequence of the MM. After my "revealing" converstaions with my MM over the last two days, he countermoved today and I think inacted NC. Don't know for sure but I am taking it that way. He didn't specifically come out and say NC, but something else made me believe it. Good Luck...this whole mess is so damn complicated.
movinon05 Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 EWS, I think you are reaching a cathartic moment. And seeing what you had for what it really was. It will be good for you to go away this summer. Perhaps you'll get even more of a clearer perspective.
Author eyeswideshut Posted June 28, 2006 Author Posted June 28, 2006 unknowing... what happened, what have you two been conversing about these days?? movin, thank you so much for being there always... i know you are going through some rough times right now.... i read your posts of a few days ago but haven't responded yet, but i've been in and out these days doing my stuff. But i did say a prayer for you, (i run to the Oratory every night and pray for one thing). I will get back into my LS groove tonight and read all your stuff. I think email is such a wierd concept for friendships. Like my MM and I only speak maybe once a week. or once every two weeks. it's like he doesn't exist, yet every few days he tells me everything he's been up to in the past few days. Isn't it wierd how he can live a life with a woman, and meanwhile here I am, totally invisible, and we are so intimate about our little everyday details? This is sooooo wierd.
UnknowingOW Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 unknowing... what happened, what have you two been conversing about these days?? Basically he opened up to me about many thing in his life and his marriage. There were other things but I won't go into that on LS. I sent him a lengthy email regarding my marriage and the events which lead to the divorce. And I discussed the other topic. Got a message this am saying " A note ...I had an indication of a virus on my laptop. Our IT group is to look at it later today. May not be a goos thing to accept email or even instant messaging from me till it is cleared. I will let you know when it has been resolved" This about the coldest thing...he didn't say anything else other then good. So, I'm going to take it as NC on his part.
The slayer Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 EWS, your story sounds incredibly painful, I truly feel for you. It must be really hard for you to see his wife on TV. I am certain that most women who become involved in a relationship with a married man really struggle with their emotional ethics in regards to the wife. It's so much easier to block out feelings of guilt or self recrimination when the wife is a concept rather than a reality. Maybe it would be a good idea to completely stop watching TV altogther for a while, it kind of forces you to do other things and I think sometimes watching TV can really act as a block to thinking things through. As for the friends thing, I believe it's hard enough to remain friends with someone that you decided you really didn't want to be with. I would imagine that, in truth, it is impossible to remain friends with someone that you decided you shouldn't be with, without experiencing an awful lot of continuing pain Obviously I am not going to presume I know anything of you relationship or how you feel, but things clearly must have changed considerably between you after his decision not to separate from his wife. If I were in your position I think the question for me would simply be, is that a change I am prepared to accept? If the answer was yes, I would continue the relationship having to adjust myself emotionally to coping with his wife being a person, and all the guilt and self recrimination and ilegitamacy that brings. If the answer was no, then I would have to I am afraid, however painful a loss it would be, end the friendship for good. I am really sorry as I know only too well what a "hobsons choice" this is, but I think as everyone on this forum knows, there really is no easy option and even the occassional "positive" story is tainted with pain and tragedy. My thoughts are with you, think carefully and make a choice. I believe when you do truly fnd yourself in a no win situation the only positive thing you can do, is to ensure that you remain in control and don't just let things happen. All the very best.
Author eyeswideshut Posted June 28, 2006 Author Posted June 28, 2006 argh, the dangerous thing about "staying around" is that we keep feeding the unknown. you know, he panics when he doesn't get an answer from me, (email) and then he starts flirting. yet when we are together, we both understand the impossible scenario we are in. i have many male friends. But they don't email every week. We call, hook up, and then don't see one another for months after. or we call, hook up, and then once in awhile email just for fun. But this is I am almost certain, an emotional affair bordering on a full-fledged out of control thing, it just so happens that the both of us are very rational, very in control, and we both care for our friends and families, and each other, etc... (my friends are his friends, we are quite closely knit) Sometimes, he's weak, and sometimes I'm weak. and that's when we contact. but other than that, we have soo much in common, so if something happens, like someone's biography just came out, or some play is in town, we just want to share it or talk about it. The weird thing is that out of all my friends, he is the most complete fit for my personality, and I'm not just saying this because we were sexually compatible. (i think we are sexually compatible because of this) it's like, we have soooo much in common. and could have so much potential fun together. oh well. i know that a friendship with him would only be okay if his wife knew about it. and I don't think that could ever happen. She already hates me. I met her once last summer, and she hardly spoke to me, and all his other girlfriends were super nice to me. he explained that maybe she felt threatened by me, because he always spoke very highly of me for years and years. anyway. i'm off to do hill running. that madonna CD is doing wonders for my buttocks.
The slayer Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 Sounds like a total nightmare. I am not at all suprised you don't know what you are doing! It would be so dangerous to carry on and so difficult to walk away........still at least you will have the best buttocks in town!
bunset Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 EWS, your friendship with that MM could still be considered an EA. Because he shares intimate details of his life with you that he doesn't with his W. Could be a bad scene. I know, because I feel I'd be able to continue with my MM that way, but it's actually wrong. That's why I'm getting a D, because that kind of friendship should be present in a M. If he can't have that in his M, then he shouldn't be in it. You should give him an incentive to at least try to build it in his M. NC might just be that incentive.
RealityCheck Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 thanks girls, RC did you get around PMing me? I don't even know how I would check that, I've never been PMed before. how would i check it? just wondering how you were doing. i hope when i get back from Europe i will have had ample time to gain perspective on our "friendship". affairs are so draining. i have so much love to give. Yes! I pming you eons ago *laughing* I was wondering why you didn't respond...lol Are you kidding me! You have not activated your pming feature... That's too funny! Go to your profile and activate personal messaging. Then click on messages. EWS,....I do hope you get my message, because it was damn long and I dread having to type that all over again....lol
OldEurope Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 End the friendship, end the relationship, end it all. If he cannot live his life without you, he will divorce his wife and propose to you. There is nothing more you can do, need to do, or should do. End this immediately for your own sanity.
Author eyeswideshut Posted June 29, 2006 Author Posted June 29, 2006 Yes... i'm a slow learner. BUt you are right. My therapist said the same thing, and I was supposed to do it two weeks ago. I told her, well I'm waiting for him to call, then, I will meet with him. The thing is, I haven't seen him since! She told me, no, you just call him and tell him. I would have rather done it face to face. Well, I was going to do it, then he had an "episode" about his dead brother. He wrote in detail how he felt and the horrible nightmares he was having. I felt as though my problems were so small in comparison. So for the past 2 weeks, well, I responded, with some support on what he's going through, then I said: ok. I'm doing this. So i invited him to see the Italy soccer game. And he "claims" he only got the email after the game. (well I did write last minute) Now I am out of town, so I only have four more days next week before my Europe trip. Maybe I should just tell him in an email if I don't get around to seeing him. This stupid story reminds me of a friend of mine who heard he was going to get fired the next day, and never showed up at work, faked a sickness and refuses to be fired!! hahah Thanks OE, I'm doing some grieving on my own, and accepting it all, but sometimes I just want to give up without even explaining it to him, because lately, he hasn't been around, or available!!
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