Guest Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 My husband left me and our two children a month ago and very quickly (for all I know before hand) was in another relationship. He denied it up until a week ago, and now has come clean that yes, he's seeing someone and to make matters worse, she's 3 months pregnant with another guy's baby. They have talk of moving in together because financially he can't get by on his own. But, on the other hand...he says that I am and will always be his best friend no matter what. So, we still talk, and I ask alot of questions, and cry alot and tell him how badly I miss him and want him back. I'm an emotional wreck. He tells me that he loves me, and that he gets homesick, but also points out our problems and asks me to wait patiently and see if what he is now doing is right for him. Because I love him so much and can't bare the thought of it being completely over, I told him that I would be understanding, and try to be patient, but that at some point I might no longer be available for him to fall back on. I do deserve better than that. This has been the most devastating month of my life. It's effecting my work, my friends, my kids....all so he can test the waters and see if he is happy with someone else. I'm begging him not to move into a place together because it will make it that much harder to leave, but he feels like if he doesn't give her a real chance then it's not fair for her. He will procede to tell me what a great person she is...that'd she is so concerned for MY wellbeing because she knows I am taking the break up hard, and that she's so understanding when he comes to see me and the kids. Is she for real??? I feel like this is an all out war that I have to win, and she's playing the sweet & understanding card. How can I get him to realize that in a relationship that has been going on for less than a month she isn't at all what she seems. Bottom line in my opinion is that she knew he was married with children, has even been to my house and played with my daughter. If she was so concerned for my well being then she wouldn't be sleeping with my husband. I don't know what to do or say or feel anymore. Being the emotional wreck isn't working. It just makes him feel guilty, and I wouldn't want him back just because he feels bad...I want him to see that he is giving up the best thing in the world for something that not at face value. Any advice?? Do I let him test his waters, and run the risk of getting hurt badly, or having the hope that he will see things in the right perspective soon enough and come back???
sylviaguardian Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 We can never control other people, we can only control our reactions to events. This must have been a terrible shock and you've been so patient...but my guess is that when your patience runs out you might start to feel very angry at the way he is treating you. At the moment he is, what we commonly refer to here as, 'having his cake and eating it'. He is getting to try out a new model but hasn't traded the old model in yet. He's hanging onto you as a fallback if it doesn't work out. So let's play out a few scenarios...he's with her now - you are in limbo. How long will it take him to work out if things are going to work between them? A month? 6 months? A year? And all this time you are left hanging there? OK so maybe he stays a few months, decides it's not going to work and comes home. Would you want him back? Wouldn't you just be waiting for him to find someone else to try out? I know this is horrible and you probably just want your life back the way it was but you are helping this man to treat you with total disrespect. In fact, I am getting angry now on your behalf :mad: If he wants to be with you, he wants to be with you. If not, he should have the guts to tell you and not to keep you hanging on in the reserve team. He is playing a game of emotional manipulation and you are following the rules. Time to change the rules: give him an ultimatum. Either he wants to be with you and comes home and ends all contact with this woman and starts to work on the marriage or, he picks her and that means that your relationship with him is terminated. I know this sounds hard and like it is a gamble but at the moment it is a win-win situation for him and a lose-lose situation for you. It's time to stand up for yourself. Trying to win him back, appear nice, not upset etc is playing into his game. He has two women fighting for him and doesn't have to make a committment to either. The only thing I would say here is that he probably hasn't told the OW yet that she is 'on trial'. He has probably told her that he has left you for good to be with her. That's why she will be so concerned about you because she does not see you as a threat but simply as an abandoned wife. I hate to say this, but your husband sounds highly manipulative. Go to the marriage builders site and read the stuff on plan A/B or read 'Tough Love'. Good luck. In the meantime try to get some support. See a counsellor if you can or talk to friends. Sylvia
jmargel Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 To the OP. I could say things to you that would make your heart melt. However actions speak louder than words. His words are meaningless. If he even decides to come back to you when is it going to happen again? This is total BS that he's putting on you. 'Well babe, we are having problems so I'm gonna sleep with other women and have my fun and just keep you hanging. I really don't want to let you go because honestly I need you for financial support, plus I can't afford child support right now'. 'Yea, I am very immature but the way you are taking it, why not?' 'Its not like I am going to try to goto marriage counseling with you and to try to work things out. Hell, I've been lying to you from way earlier and really haven't respected you or the children. This marriage is about what 'I' can get out of it. Yep, you are my best friend as long as you continue to tolerate my crap. You see I really won't mature for a long time now and really nothing you can do will help. And I refuse to do anything about that so I'll continue to cheat, lie, disrespect & make a farce out of this marriage. I will keep you living on edge and wondering, crying, worrying. Because honestly I like that feeling it gives me'. There, I said what he really thinks. Do you really want him now? Tough love. Read up on it. Do it.
Ladyjane14 Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 I also recommend the marriagebuilders Plan A & Plan B. You should read Surviving An Affair by Dr. Harley for more information on the plan, as well as His Needs / Her Needs and The Five Love Languages. You'd be smart to incorporate some 180's into your Plan A. Begging and pleading seldom work. Here's a list: Michele Weiner-Davis, re: DivorceBusting 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! 2. No frequent phone calls 3. Do not point out good points in marriage 4. Do not follow him around the house 5. Do not encourage talk about the future 6. Do not ask for help from family members 7. Do not ask for reassurances 8. Do not buy gifts 9. Do not schedule dates together 10. Do not spy on spouse 11. Do not say "I Love You" 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone he would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) 21. Never lose your cool 22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic 23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes their feelings stronger) 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil) 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes In all likelihood, your husband has lied to you about only meeting OW recently. It's a very common tactic for adulterers to make it seem as if their affair hasn't been going on all along. They do that because they hope to improve their divorce settlement and custody issues without the bias of the court. Here's a recent post by one such person. I'm not going to point out her name or thread, but I want you to understand that there REALLY is a certain amount of premeditation in some of these situations. Yes, tragedy and heartbreak are clearly in someone's future. If we handle our situation as we plan, no one will know that our relationship began before the marriages were over. The plan is well thought out and will work as long as we are careful. No, the wife doesn't know and she won't know unless one of us tells her. Our relationship comes with a lot of baggage and we are handling it the best way that we can. We are not planning to drop a bombshell on anyone or hurt anyone. We are planning to have a mutual decision made between all parties involved. It's a long story but I can tell you that this is not a relationship that was not thought out and planned. It is a situation that we willingly persued and when the timing is right, the spouses will know that there will be a divorce, but I hope that they don't find out about the relationship. It is very private, very delicate and we handle it well. It just works for us right now. You should see an attorney immediately in order to protect yourself and your children. It's possible that your husband has ZERO intention of working things out with you and is just stringing you along in order to keep you cooperative. It's also possible that he's fathered an OC (other child) on the OW. If so, you need to protect your own children FIRST. Sometimes, that means being the first to file for child support. You may need to legalize your separation in order to get that accomplished. You can find some legal information on line at sites like http://divorcenet.com, but bear in mind this is no substitution for specific legal advice from an attorney in your area. If I were you, I'd only "Plan A" for a short time, maybe a month or two. Then I'd hit him hard with "Plan B", which as you'll see when you read the information, involves minimal contact. You'll need to make preparations for how you'll handle parenting issues in advance of your Plan B. You absolutely should do whatever you need to do to protect your family even as you Plan A. Just because you're putting your best foot forward during Plan A, doesn't mean that you fail to protect your family. So.... see that lawyer! There will be times when you p*ss him off while you're doing what you need to do, but don't let him fool you. Wayward spouses who elect to come home, don't hold it against you that you kept your boat floating. And if he NEVER comes back.... you're not going to care if he's got his nose out of joint. I'm sorry that you're going through all this, and I know it must be very difficult for you emotionally, but you've got a crisis on your hands.... and you've got ALOT to do in order to combat it. Don't let yourself get bogged down by your own emotions. You need a clear head in order to get it all done.
theantibarbie23 Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 As painful as this may sound I think it's time you took control back over over your life. It sounds to me like he's been with this woman beforehand and that could possibly be his child. He is fence sitting right now and will not stop as long as he knows he has you to fall back on. You are going to have to get tough with him and show him just what life would be like without you. Pull that damn security blanket right out from under his feet and knock him down off the fence. Go NO CONTACT with him. That means no talking to him about anything outside of the bills and your children and even then the best way to handle that is via e-mail. Let him miss interaction with you! When you do have to talk to him, be polite, distant, and calm even if you feel like your insides are being shredded into little pieces. NEVER talk about your relationship or feelings as he will percieve this as a weakness. Always seem to be too busy to talk with him when he calls. You may think this will push him into the arms the other woman but being unavailable to him will give him a HUGE wake up call. I hate to say this but if he signs a lease with this woman I think he is giving you lip service and has already made up his mind to stay gone. If this is the case you need to start taking care of buisness pronto in order to protect yourself. Set up child support and visitation pronto. Find yourself a good lawyer and file if you live in the US make sure that this includes the stipulation that he can't have this OW anywhere near your children for a year as it's not healthy for them emotionally (as most therepists would tell you). I am so sorry this is happening to you. Filing doesn't mean that it has to be over, you can stop it once you've filed if he changes his mind and you still want him back. The best part of NO CONTACT is that it will help you regain control and speed up the healing process. You deserve better than this.
MendedWing Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Coming out of lurkdom here...I am the original poster of this topic. Hi...my name is Kristen. Thanks for all the advice. I absolutely love the divorcebuster rules. I know that is exactly what he needs to get a taste of his own medicine. I've truly been trying to move on with my life...as far as hanging with friends again, going out, I even was supposed to go out on a date but bailed because to me it still feels wrong. And God forbid he gave up on me entirely if he saw me with some other guy. I think my entire perspective does need to change. And, I know the OW doesn't realize she's on trial, because he keeps telling me that she isn't jealous, etc. I just don't see how that's possible if she really knew the truth. So, now I'm in love with this site, and will probably very quickly become addicted. I need all the inspiration for strength I can get right now...because I won't be able to tell him how I feel anymore. I've got to be able to cry on SOMEONE's shoulders right? Off to browse some more. Thanks everyone for the very considerate in depth replies. I'm really just sick of everyone else just telling me "he's a dog, get over it" That's like trying to tell a suicidal person to get over their depression. Not that I'm suicidal...just insecure and lonely and afraid that there is nothing more for me out there.
Trimmer Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 ...he says that I am and will always be his best friend no matter what. Well, he certainly isn't acting like your best friend, is he? ...he feels like if he doesn't give her a real chance then it's not fair for her. AAAAACCCCKKK!!! Not fair for her? He is your husband, he owes first and foremost any thoughts of fairness to YOU and the family. Did he actually say it like he was expecting you to see it as an issue of "fairness" to the OW? What a maroon!!! (Not you; him...) Do I let him test his waters, and run the risk of getting hurt badly My dear, you are already hurt badly. You are already severely wounded, now we're just discussing how and in which directions you will let him twist the knife. I even was supposed to go out on a date but bailed because to me it still feels wrong. I'm kind of glad to hear this. I would definitely look for the support of friends right now, but if you are still considering any chance of reconciliation, then I would recommend keeping up your end of the marriage commitment for now, and hold yourself to the same standards that you would expect of a moral, ethical (apparently imaginary...) spouse. And besides that, considering the possible emotional ramifications of dating, ask yourself, in the big picture, could any good possibly come from it at this point? You're right: being told to "get over it" doesn't really help much, does it? But I hope you will believe it when I tell you that "you will get over it." It doesn't happen over night, but it does happen. In my darkest moments, sometimes the only thing I had left to hold on to was a simple belief - a thread, sometimes - that I would eventually get over it. So it's still awfully early in your process, but as you go along, if you feel things crushing in on you, hold on to that one thread - there are a host of folks on here who can attest to it - things will get better, you will get over it. Let us know if you need to be reminded of that. Unfortunately, at this point, you are still trying to figure out what "it" is, and that is one of the most agonizing things, because "it" is certainly still shrouded in deception, denial, and lies. The classic behavior for someone in your husband's position is to not volunteer anything, to deny if confronted without evidence, and to continue denying and/or lie or minimize things if confronted with evidence. Thus, I would bet that you haven't really got the whole story yet; what would it benefit him to share it? Along the lines of what LJ and anti-barbie have mentioned, I'll ask it more directly: have you considered the possibility that it's his child? Is it possible that he independently left you a month ago, and then suddenly met an already-pregnant woman and created such a bond so quickly that he decided it was worth considering a long-term relationship with her (indicated by moving in together)? Possible, maybe but really, how likely is that? Another possibility is that he was active outside your marriage for some time before moving out, and he got her pregnant. No proof either way, but which one sounds more likely? Why would a man leave his family, only to immediately start a possibly long-term relationship with a pregnant woman? I would be tempted to ask him calmly and neutrally "So, who's the father, and why isn't he around? Where is he?" and see what kind of hemming and hawing he does as he gives his answer... I'm truly sorry if this is blunt, but I think you need to seriously consider this possibility, and like LJ said, start planning to protect yourself and your kids. How are your kids; how old are they? You mentioned him visiting; what is his involvement in their lives at this point? How long have you been married? You are 25 - how old is your husband? Given what you know so far, and thinking back, do you recall any strange things you noticed or wierd feelings you got from him in the months leading up to his departure? Do you have cell phone bills you can check going back a few months? (some cell companies will let you access detailed call records for your account online...) This was my eye-opener, way back when...
Guest Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Along the lines of what LJ and anti-barbie have mentioned, I'll ask it more directly: have you considered the possibility that it's his child? I have absolutely considered this and most definately confronted him immediately, and when he denied it, continued to press the issue because I just didn't believe him. But, the bottom line is that if it is his child, she JUST found out, because he didn't even know she existed 8 weeks ago. He met her father at his job. He came in as a customer, and my husband asked him to come over and do some yard work for us (he does gardening and hauls off junk). My husband and him hit it off and continued to do odds and end favors for eachother. It was when my husband started going over to his house and staying late to "help him fix his computer" that I assume the relationship may have begun. That was the first time ever in the entire 6 years that I've known him where I didn't have 110% trust for him...and he left a week later, stating that he wasn't happy here and needed time apart. Before that we were perfectly normal, happy couple. We had just refinanced our house to pay off some debt and were planning on doing some home renovations. We had just bought a car 2 months prior. I think he literally met her, and something may have happened, or he felt a connection with her in some way, and rather than drag out a ridiculous affair, he decided to leave. What he tells me when I ask about the father then is that she was dating 3 guys already when they met...and partying all the time (something he is completely against since he grew up with an abusive alcoholic father). He said that when they started talking she realized that she was being used by the other guys, and wasting her life away, and suddenly realized what it felt like to be able to talk to a guy and feel respected. He tells me at that point, he found out she had already missed 2 periods and was pregnant by 1 of the 3 guys, but not positive as to which. However it wasn't possible to be his. So, that's his story. It was long and detailed, and now that he has come out of the closet to tell me the truth and thinks I'm his "FRIEND" I actually can't get him to shut up and leave out details that only hurt me. His reason behind moving so fast into a place with her is that he can't afford to make it on his own, and neither can she, so since they were together it made the most LOGICAL sense that they do it together. How are your kids; how old are they? You mentioned him visiting; what is his involvement in their lives at this point? How long have you been married? You are 25 - how old is your husband? Given what you know so far, and thinking back, do you recall any strange things you noticed or wierd feelings you got from him in the months leading up to his departure? Do you have cell phone bills you can check going back a few months? (some cell companies will let you access detailed call records for your account online...) This was my eye-opener, way back when... The kids are doing just fine. I have a 5 year old daughter, and did I fail to mention we just had a newborn baby together. My son is just 5 months old now. My daughter has always been a momma's girl so she's just tickled that I'm letting her sleep in my bed now. She treats him just like he is at work, and when he visits there is no big excitement over seeing him. The baby, obviously, has no clue. We have been together 6 years, married for 2. Like I said before, no strange vibes, until right at the end. Oh, believe me though, I have searched the phone records, his credit card records, I know where he's staying based on a reverse address search, I know where she works because he started buying a lot of stuff from a hardware store when he doesn't even have a house anymore...I'm seriously on the verge of being a nut job over this. The last thing I want to let him do to me is turn me into a psycho stalker girl who's obsessed with her ex though. He really isn't worthy of that. In the first few weeks of the separation, he was still coming to the house to shower, change, and eat my food. He'd leave his dirty laundry on my bathroom floor and sure enough I'd wash it and set it back out for him. I was holding out for the normalcy that it made me feel. Even if he wasn't here, I still got to feel like he depended on me and I was a part of his life. The showers and laundry have now stopped, I'm assuming that was at the hands of the OW. He does still come by to visit "the kids" at least every other day or so, but it usually involves us laying together on the bed, cuddling (just cuddling), and talking about my feelings. He says he does this because he knows how badly he is hurting me and he knows that seeing him makes me feel better, even if only temporarily...but then like clock-work she'll call his cell phone, or get off work and he's got to go. And my heart is torn out all over again. He will whisper in my ear that he loves me, and yesterday he came over and fixed my flat tire for me. Today while I was at work he came over and mowed my lawn for me. But in the same day, (Guilty, I checked his email) he has registered on one of those places like Rent.com to find a place for them..and he informed me that he is trying to get a small loan so he can buy some furniture when he moves. So, what am I supposed to think about all of this? I've asked him over and over again and can't get an answer...does he love me, or does he love her? Or, does he only love himself??? I'm definately planning on trying the minimal contact and acting like I'm over him act and see if he doesn't start to realize what he's about to lose. Like someone said before...the moment he signs a lease with her, it will be the same as signing the divorce papers to me. If you are willing to go into a lease with someone it is because you have no intention what so ever of leaving it in a week, month, or even two. I will not be strung along for that long. I will not sit back and watch him stick with her through the entire pregnancy when he abandoned his own newborn son. So, he doesn't believe me when I say it, but the apartment thing is his deadline/ultimatum, and I will not wait a second longer for him from that point on.
MendedWing Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Along the lines of what LJ and anti-barbie have mentioned, I'll ask it more directly: have you considered the possibility that it's his child? I have absolutely considered this and most definately confronted him immediately, and when he denied it, continued to press the issue because I just didn't believe him. But, the bottom line is that if it is his child, she JUST found out, because he didn't even know she existed 8 weeks ago. He met her father at his job. He came in as a customer, and my husband asked him to come over and do some yard work for us (he does gardening and hauls off junk). My husband and him hit it off and continued to do odds and end favors for eachother. It was when my husband started going over to his house and staying late to "help him fix his computer" that I assume the relationship may have begun. That was the first time ever in the entire 6 years that I've known him where I didn't have 110% trust for him...and he left a week later, stating that he wasn't happy here and needed time apart. Before that we were perfectly normal, happy couple. We had just refinanced our house to pay off some debt and were planning on doing some home renovations. We had just bought a car 2 months prior. I think he literally met her, and something may have happened, or he felt a connection with her in some way, and rather than drag out a ridiculous affair, he decided to leave. What he tells me when I ask about the father then is that she was dating 3 guys already when they met...and partying all the time (something he is completely against since he grew up with an abusive alcoholic father). He said that when they started talking she realized that she was being used by the other guys, and wasting her life away, and suddenly realized what it felt like to be able to talk to a guy and feel respected. He tells me at that point, he found out she had already missed 2 periods and was pregnant by 1 of the 3 guys, but not positive as to which. However it wasn't possible to be his. So, that's his story. It was long and detailed, and now that he has come out of the closet to tell me the truth and thinks I'm his "FRIEND" I actually can't get him to shut up and leave out details that only hurt me. His reason behind moving so fast into a place with her is that he can't afford to make it on his own, and neither can she, so since they were together it made the most LOGICAL sense that they do it together. How are your kids; how old are they? You mentioned him visiting; what is his involvement in their lives at this point? How long have you been married? You are 25 - how old is your husband? Given what you know so far, and thinking back, do you recall any strange things you noticed or wierd feelings you got from him in the months leading up to his departure? Do you have cell phone bills you can check going back a few months? (some cell companies will let you access detailed call records for your account online...) This was my eye-opener, way back when... The kids are doing just fine. I have a 5 year old daughter, and did I fail to mention we just had a newborn baby together. My son is just 5 months old now. My daughter has always been a momma's girl so she's just tickled that I'm letting her sleep in my bed now. She treats him just like he is at work, and when he visits there is no big excitement over seeing him. The baby, obviously, has no clue. We have been together 6 years, married for 2. Like I said before, no strange vibes, until right at the end. Oh, believe me though, I have searched the phone records, his credit card records, I know where he's staying based on a reverse address search, I know where she works because he started buying a lot of stuff from a hardware store when he doesn't even have a house anymore...I'm seriously on the verge of being a nut job over this. The last thing I want to let him do to me is turn me into a psycho stalker girl who's obsessed with her ex though. He really isn't worthy of that. In the first few weeks of the separation, he was still coming to the house to shower, change, and eat my food. He'd leave his dirty laundry on my bathroom floor and sure enough I'd wash it and set it back out for him. I was holding out for the normalcy that it made me feel. Even if he wasn't here, I still got to feel like he depended on me and I was a part of his life. The showers and laundry have now stopped, I'm assuming that was at the hands of the OW. He does still come by to visit "the kids" at least every other day or so, but it usually involves us laying together on the bed, cuddling (just cuddling), and talking about my feelings. He says he does this because he knows how badly he is hurting me and he knows that seeing him makes me feel better, even if only temporarily...but then like clock-work she'll call his cell phone, or get off work and he's got to go. And my heart is torn out all over again. He will whisper in my ear that he loves me, and yesterday he came over and fixed my flat tire for me. Today while I was at work he came over and mowed my lawn for me. But in the same day, (Guilty, I checked his email) he has registered on one of those places like Rent.com to find a place for them..and he informed me that he is trying to get a small loan so he can buy some furniture when he moves. So, what am I supposed to think about all of this? I've asked him over and over again and can't get an answer...does he love me, or does he love her? Or, does he only love himself??? I'm definately planning on trying the minimal contact and acting like I'm over him act and see if he doesn't start to realize what he's about to lose. Like someone said before...the moment he signs a lease with her, it will be the same as signing the divorce papers to me. If you are willing to go into a lease with someone it is because you have no intention what so ever of leaving it in a week, month, or even two. I will not be strung along for that long. I will not sit back and watch him stick with her through the entire pregnancy when he abandoned his own newborn son. So, he doesn't believe me when I say it, but the apartment thing is his deadline/ultimatum, and I will not wait a second longer for him from that point on.
eyeswideshut Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 can I ask a personal question? When you got married, did you both decide, or did you give him an ultimatum? Just wondering. I am an OW, and reading your story is making me stick to my resolve to stay away because of the hurt i am causing the wife. My MM tells me that he never wanted to marry her, she gave him an ultimatum and then he couldn't break up with her because things were going well at the time. Im just trying to figure out what goes on in the heads of these married men. Of course the other woman is not jealous, she is getting so much attention!!! It's really freaky. Well, I'll tell you what happened with my MM. They were going to counseling and one week he told her that he was ready for separation. He told me it would be over between them soon. She was crying, begging, everything. He wouldn't budge. Then next session, she had called a lawyer and was ready to serve him divorce papers. He told me she was so cold and so 'professional' about it that it scared him. And only then was he willing to work it out with her. Men like that hate to make decisions. So if you maybe just say: ok. it's over. I want a divorce, I don't know, I only have my experience to share with you. But did he ever do a 180 in his decision which he had made over a year ago. He had told everyone, family, friends, everyone that they were separating. She begged for counseling. He was "going" but really just going through the motions. the minute she took action and said: ok. I want a divorce. You can contact my lawyers, I do not want to talk to you again, just sign the papers, whatever, she was going into complete NC. Like throwing him away for good. He came to me that very week and said: It was a shock to see her so put together. oh yeah. And a line that got to him was what she told him beforehand: I've only ever wanted to make you happy. I wish only for your happiness. I thought it would be with me, but if you want out, I wish you hapiness in your future. Anyway. He said he had made her out to be a monster, when in reality, he was the monster. She was a good person, and he was the pig. He said that made him realize that he has issues. And it wasn't the marriage. it was him. So there. That is what made him go back. I'm not trying to give you a formula, but when it happened, I told my therapist, and she said: wow, this woman is really manipulative, she knew that if she agreed with him, he would come back. And I said: really? that was manipulation? anyway. we'll see. I wish you the best of luck. and as an OW I want to say sorry for all the pain i have caused a MW.
Trimmer Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Forgive me for asking prying questions, but I figure what is an anonymous forum for anyway? Tell me to bugger off if necessary... I'm actually trying to learn as much about him as you.... You have a 5 year old daughter and you've known him for 6 years. I'm inferring that your husband is not her father, because you said "I [singular] have a 5 year old daughter", then point out that you have your newborn son "together"... Are you willing to tell us about how the two of you met and started out together? The last thing I want to let him do to me is turn me into a psycho stalker girl who's obsessed with her ex though. Yeah, I was pretty insane with my snooping - or I should say my snooping was turning me insane - while I still saw some kind of future together with my wife. Even after things were pretty obviously finished, I still continued for a while, I think as a kind of my only way (if pathological) to keep some kind of connection with her life. I now realize that those later attempts to remain in her life were a tortured maneuver that just extended my pain. Once it was clear to me that she was gone, and I truly accepted that my vision of that future had collapsed, I finally lost my drive to snoop. I'm a little concerned for you in a similar respect... About doing his laundry, etc, you said: I still got to feel like he depended on me and I was a part of his life. But he wasn't depending on you out of love and mutual commitment - he was using you as a bathhouse and laundry service. And I don't know what he's doing coming over and cuddling on your bed, but it's pretty pathetic that he then gets up and goes back to his OW when she beckons him... Well, I guess what he's doing is laying in the arms of an attractive woman, with no strings attached, and then getting up and leaving to go back to the other woman whenever he feels like it... Boy, I'm sorry, but any amount that this is making you feel better is just an illusion. I think you need to dig deep and bring all your self respect to the surface and don't let him be your "friend" until he starts treating you with some kind of respect. Don't let him use you, as a sounding board, cuddly doll, laundry service, any of that. Don't block his access to his child, but facilitate his efforts only to the degree that is healthy for the child, anything else should be off limits. You are better than this, and you do deserve better than this...
MendedWing Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 can I ask a personal question? When you got married, did you both decide, or did you give him an ultimatum? No, there was no ultimatum...in fact I was never in a big hurry to get married. We already had a child and lived together. To me, the marriage was just a piece of paper. But actually, what happened was I used to weigh 320 pounds...had gastric bypass surgery and as soon as I started to lose a significant amount of weight he suddenly was the one who was ready for marriage. I figured it was insecurity, but loved him and was okay with the decision. I was getting ready to start a new job, and wanted him on my health insurance plan, so we decided it made the most sense. We just ran off to the courthouse that week and did it. I am an OW, and reading your story is making me stick to my resolve to stay away because of the hurt i am causing the wife. Well, if I have acomplished anything from this post, that was my biggest THANK GOD moment. If you want to talk about manipulation, it is the man. He is leading you to believe that he loves you, and convincing himself that he doesn't love her anymore...but the minute she wants out, he gets scared that he just lost his back-up plan (you know, just in case you turn out to be nothing special) By staying in the situation with him despite your gut instincts, you do not give her any chance to live the life he promised her in his wedding vows. I will never agree with a woman who willingly and knowingly stays with a married man because I think it is the most selfish act (right next to be the cheater himself) that any person can do. You don't know the truth...you too, only know what he wants you to know and believe. In my situation he's telling her he loves her, that we are completely over, and that he's going to move in with her and be there for her and her unborn baby, but then he's coming back to me and telling me he loves me, that he is just confused and needs time to think, and by no means is he giving me the impression that things are totally over. I swear these situations we get ourselves in are as bad as an abusive relationship...only we allow it because somewhere in there it makes us feel better. You and I both need to quit being the VICTIM. Please don't let him manipulate you into believing that she means NOTHING to him. oh yeah. And a line that got to him was what she told him beforehand: I've only ever wanted to make you happy. I wish only for your happiness. I thought it would be with me, but if you want out, I wish you hapiness in your future. I've told him that from day 1 when he left and said he needed time apart to think. I was a fool and believed that in a day or 2 tops he'd come running back so fast...so my dumb self was trying to be totally supportive and tell him to get whatever it was he needed out of his system because if he wasn't happy he deserved to find it. Even still I continue to tell him I want him to be happy. And honestly it's true...I wouldn't dream of wanting him back if it meant that he would always live a miserable unfullfilling life with me and always regret his decision. That's why it's important to me not to GUILT him into coming back. That does not make it any easier for me though because he was what made me happy....so in saying that she is saying that she is willing to sacrifice her own happiness for his. That is love. I wish you the best of luck. and as an OW I want to say sorry for all the pain i have caused a MW. THank you very much...I know obviously we are in two different situations with two different men, but you did make me realize that she is human too. So, maybe just a little bit I can drop some of my hate for her. If you do truly feel sorry though, and you know the MW is aware of you, then maybe it would be an extremely worthwhile gesture to write her a letter and say sorry. I think it might help you be able to move on too...because if you hadn't let go, then you had the ultimate power to destroy her life. Your actions are selfless and I aplaud you for staying strong. Now give her a chance at the life she chose, and try to find a good single man who's worthy of you. Ciao, Kristen
theantibarbie23 Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 He does still come by to visit "the kids" at least every other day or so, but it usually involves us laying together on the bed, cuddling (just cuddling), and talking about my feelings. He says he does this because he knows how badly he is hurting me and he knows that seeing him makes me feel better, even if only temporarily...but then like clock-work she'll call his cell phone, or get off work and he's got to go. And my heart is torn out all over again. He will whisper in my ear that he loves me, and yesterday he came over and fixed my flat tire for me. It sickens me, absolutely sickens me how he is toying with your emotions. I'm sure his ego loves the fact he has two women gaga over him. Pulling away from him, like you said you will, is really the best thing you can do. If you are going to play hardball with him I suggest throwing whatever he has left in the house into the garage or on the lawn and telling him to pick up his crap in an e-mail as this is NO LONGER his home and you are not a storage facility. If he is used to coming and going as he pleases, change the locks to your house. Also set up some sembalance of a child visitation schedule that he has to follow. You want to give him the message that he can no longer do whatever he wants. He abandoned you and your children. He no longer gets run of the house. He shouldn't get the comfort of having you as his friend while he goes around sleeping with someone else and touch you whenever he feels like it. He is not your friend, he is your husband and unless he starts acting like one he forfits having you in his life. I really feel for you. I have a two month old and a one year old at home and I will tell you, if I were married to my SO and he pulled this crap, I wouldn't hesitate to file for divorce. It would let me know exactly where I stood with him. He would ethier fight for our relationship or be happy the work was done for him and not make a fuss. If he was happy about it, my filing isn't the thing that killed "us", we were already done.
eyeswideshut Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Hi, This was the first time I have ever been in contact with a W of a cheating man. I almost had tears in my eyes when you wrote I had the power to ruin her life. God. Those words will resonate if I get the urge to go on a power seduction trip to lure him away. Yes I need to let go, and I am ready now. Causing this much hurt to another human being is not worth it. And he is so unable to make a decision, it's making me sick! Last time I saw him I asked him how things were going with her. Oh, first off, he didn't want to "talk". He was here all night and all we did was f***. Then I asked him, you know, because our friendship was mostly based on conversation, until recently, and I sort of felt like he was treating me like a total slut. SO i joked around and said: next time you come by, you should ask me stuff like: how are you, what's up? Anyway. He said this: Things are fine at home. Except I really like being with you too. I just don't see myself married for a long time to her. I said: well, someone will have to decide something soon. and he said: well, i know this is not the ideal situation. I said: are you going to make a decision he said: I can't make a decision. I hate making decisions. I almost want her to get bored with me so she will decide for me. You know what this tells me, it can go both ways. He can "hope" I'll get bored with him and leave him too. You know what he is doing so that she will get bored of him? He stopped sleeping with her. I said: she'll notice that you stopped, and she'll suspect your having an affair. He said: no, right now, she just doesn't want to rock the boat, so she isn't complaining. maybe after awhile she will get bored and she'll have an affair. Can you believe it? he's trying to get her into having an affair so he won't have to make a decision!!! Tell me. Should I tell him I am no longer continuing this, (from your point of view), or should I just stop talking to him altogether. I know people who care tell me I have to tell him, you know, in a civilised way. But does he even deserve it? Can't I let him wonder, and suffer, and mull things in his mind too?
theantibarbie23 Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 This is a great article on having effective minimal contact with a wayward spouse: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/divorce/no_contact.asp
MendedWing Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Forgive me for asking prying questions, but I figure what is an anonymous forum for anyway? Tell me to bugger off if necessary... I'm actually trying to learn as much about him as you.... You have a 5 year old daughter and you've known him for 6 years. I'm inferring that your husband is not her father, because you said "I [singular] have a 5 year old daughter", then point out that you have your newborn son "together"... Are you willing to tell us about how the two of you met and started out together? No, she is his child. I'm 25, he's 33. We met online while I lived in WV and him here in CA. He knew even when we were talking that he wanted a serious relationship and a child. He wanted to "be the father, he never had". What a joke now! But when I moved to CA, I was young and naieve, and in love and wanted to be a family, and give him the family he wanted, so we got pregnant right away.
Ladyjane14 Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I would definitely look for the support of friends right now, but if you are still considering any chance of reconciliation, then I would recommend keeping up your end of the marriage commitment for now, and hold yourself to the same standards that you would expect of a moral, ethical (apparently imaginary...) spouse. And besides that, considering the possible emotional ramifications of dating, ask yourself, in the big picture, could any good possibly come from it at this point? There are just too many good points being made in this thread!~ I can't reprint them all, but this one by Trimmer is particularly important. You want to ALWAYS be true to your own value system, right? And should you ever stand before a judge in divorce court.... you want to be able to hold your head up high. California may be a no-fault state, but that doesn't mean that the judge isn't a human being who can either notice that the vows of marriage held no meaning for one of you, or s/he can notice that those vows held no meaning for both of you. I agree also with Trimmer that your husband is NOT being a true friend to you, and that by prioritizing the OW ahead of you and his children, he has made it quite clear that you need to fend for yourself. Emotional response aside, he told you plainly that he's putting himself and his mistress first. ...asks me to wait patiently and see if what he is now doing is right for him. ...he feels like if he doesn't give her a real chance then it's not fair for her. When you translate his words, the meaning is clear. The only person you and your kids can rely on right now... is YOU. So, call that attorney today and set up an appointment. You need to be thinking about getting some child support out of him before he commits himself financially to a fancy lair with his adultery partner. Be the first to file for legal separation if need be. Be the first to file for DIVORCE even. If that's what it takes... then do it. You've got a long row to hoe in raising those kids. And if things change down the pike and you BOTH choose reconcilliation, you can always re-marry. This might sound like hard-ball. But it's necessary for TWO reasons. One, you need to protect your family. And Two.... he needs a serious dose of REALITY. Will it p*ss him off that you aren't playing his game? Yeah... it will. When you do ANYTHING that threatens his affair, he's going to go off like a ballistic missile. But bear in mind, that his EMR (extramarital relationship) is inconsistant with his marriage. He can't have both. I hope you read all the information at marriagebuilders. I'll be honest, I find the boards to be fairly militant, and I can't recommend them. There really does need to be some empathy for the WS (wayward spouse) at some point, if reconcilliation is ever going to be successful. And while there are some terrific people posting over there, empathy for a WS is in very short supply. I think it's okay to have empathy for your wayward partner. He's a troubled individual. He's fallen for the damsel in distress routine, which tells you something about his self-esteem. It makes a guy feel alot better about himself when he gets to play THE HERO. Having been raised by an alcoholic father, he may even fit the criteria of an Adult Child of Alcoholics. You can do a google search to get more information on that. It may perhaps give you a little more insight into his personality. Additionally, you mentioned that he started hanging out with OW's father before he started up with her. I have to wonder if he felt emotionally supported by a more positive experience with a father figure than by the experience he had with his own biological father. Acceptance is a powerfully inviting element for a person who might have felt the sting of rejection or maybe even 'not good enough' to please his own dad. One other thing I'll mention is that it's not unheard of for a young man to completely flake out at the prospect of life-long responsibility when he's just begun his own family. Quite a few will suffer through this anxiety, feeling it as a dissatisfaction with the way their life is going. The feelings are vague, and the young man seldom recognizes them for what they are.... fear that he won't be good enough to provide for his new family. He'll cast around for more concrete problems, and he'll allow himself to become distracted by any that he finds. He's looking for something he can sink his teeth into, something he can identify and solve. Oftentimes, he'll decide he just had the wrong partner, and he'll tell himself that his unhappiness stemmed from being with the wrong person. Meanwhile, he's getting a nice little dopamine fix from his contact with the OW... and as a band-aid, it's doing it's job, making him feel a little better for just a little while. So.... yeah, it's okay to feel sorry for him. But not at your own expense or that of your children. Currently, this man is NOT a worthy partner for you. If you allow him to come home without addressing the underlying causes of his problems, he's just going to flake out on you again later. This is why Plan A is so important. It allows you to emotionally support your WS, and still calls upon you to introduce REALITY into the situation. It gives him a clearer picture. And as you clarify his choices by making choices of your own, he's better able to select his course. Plan A also lets your partner know that you're capable of 'filling the bill'. He's so busy telling himself that you can't possibly be THE ONE. He really wants to believe that. It justifies his actions. It makes sense of his world. Plan A lets him know that you are ready, willing, and capable of being a great partner. But it also lets him know that you respect yourself. Theantibarbie is right about NC (no contact). This is part of Plan B though. When you use these two plans in succession, you create a vacuum effect. This illustrates for the WS the stark contrast between having you in his life, and NOT having you in his life. In Plan A, you're supporting ENs (emotional needs). In Plan B... OW is left holding the bag, trying to support both the ENs he was receiving from you and the ones he was receiving from her. One of the most important ones that she will NEVER be able to fulfill.... is continuity within your nuclear family. For right now, if I were you, I'd see an attorney immediately and I'd file whatever I needed to file for child support and visitation. And I would definately follow Theantibarbie's suggestion to disallow contact with the OW. It's not good for a kindergartner to try to wrap her little mind around 'Why my daddy has a girlfriend who isn't Mommy'. I'd also follow her suggestion to change the locks on the house too. You don't know where his keys are laying around anymore or WHO might have access to them afterall. I'd continue to talk with him and be pleasant, understanding, and accepting of his feelings. I'd continue to fulfill ENs too, but I don't think I'd allow him to come home to stay yet. He'd have to EARN his way back by addressing his flaky behavior in therapy. You don't ever want to have to travel this road with him again, right?
Mz. Pixie Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Lady Jane, Solemate and Trimmer have given you great advice. Not sure how much I can weigh in above that but I have a different perspective than they do. I've been the cheating spouse in my first marriage. I can promise you that 99% of all cheaters deny, deny, deny until you catch them point blank with solid pictures or evidence. Even then they will lie "But honey, my c*ck just fell into her mouth" or "I wasn't there". They all basically have the same script- but don't know they do. It's kind of funny in some ways. He wants to be your friend for a few reasons. Forgive me if this has been covered but I'm really busy and couldn't read all the thread completely. Being your friend keeps you around for the emotional needs that he wants you to meet- whatever they are- while keeping the OW around for the needs that she's meeting- whatever they are. That also keeps you from filing first and keeps him from having to pay you- because someone said he said "he couldn't afford child support". Lastly, if he ends up filing and he keeps you as a friend he thinks the divorce will go more smooth for him. I think in all reality he met the OW first, then her dad. And I think the baby is his. Why would he leave his own children for just a damsel in distress PG with another's baby? Not likely. Remember, if you see their lips moving- they are lying. You can't trust anything he says. Read Love Must be tough by James Dobson. I read it after I left my exhusband and everything the book tells you not to do my exhusband did- which drove me away. The things that you are doing now. Not that you can help it. If he can't afford child support- he needs to come back home, period. If he won't then you need to file so that you can start getting something- separation agreement/whatever. This is about protecting your children. At this point you are the only one who is thinking of them. And him having to pay child support now makes it harder to have fun with OW. In some states you can file for temporary relief (child support) until the divorce is filed and they will enforce it. I echo what the others have said about dating. Your husband will probably tell you to date- that aleviates his guilt a bit. You are extremely vulnerable right now. You're upset, probably feeling unattractive and that you did something wrong. The last thing you need is to get involved with someone even on a date. It would feel good sure but it will make the situation worse. Also, as LJ said- if you don't follow his lead when you are out- you will have peace of mind that you didn't stoop to his levels.
plainoldjared Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Hi, This was the first time I have ever been in contact with a W of a cheating man. I almost had tears in my eyes when you wrote I had the power to ruin her life. God. Those words will resonate if I get the urge to go on a power seduction trip to lure him away. Yes I need to let go, and I am ready now. Causing this much hurt to another human being is not worth it. And he is so unable to make a decision, it's making me sick! Last time I saw him I asked him how things were going with her. Oh, first off, he didn't want to "talk". He was here all night and all we did was f***. Then I asked him, you know, because our friendship was mostly based on conversation, until recently, and I sort of felt like he was treating me like a total slut. SO i joked around and said: next time you come by, you should ask me stuff like: how are you, what's up? Anyway. He said this: Things are fine at home. Except I really like being with you too. I just don't see myself married for a long time to her. I said: well, someone will have to decide something soon. and he said: well, i know this is not the ideal situation. I said: are you going to make a decision he said: I can't make a decision. I hate making decisions. I almost want her to get bored with me so she will decide for me. You know what this tells me, it can go both ways. He can "hope" I'll get bored with him and leave him too. You know what he is doing so that she will get bored of him? He stopped sleeping with her. I said: she'll notice that you stopped, and she'll suspect your having an affair. He said: no, right now, she just doesn't want to rock the boat, so she isn't complaining. maybe after awhile she will get bored and she'll have an affair. Can you believe it? he's trying to get her into having an affair so he won't have to make a decision!!! Tell me. Should I tell him I am no longer continuing this, (from your point of view), or should I just stop talking to him altogether. I know people who care tell me I have to tell him, you know, in a civilised way. But does he even deserve it? Can't I let him wonder, and suffer, and mull things in his mind too? You know what makes this whole thing the saddest, is hes got a wife at home that he is obviously and intentionally ignoring mistreating crushing and abusing just so she'll make the decision to stop suffering and realize she deserves better and then he can get away with the crimes hes committed. You get to have him sweat it all out on you (excuse me for being so disgustingly graphic but this is what it is). Jesus you poor people. You deserve to have a man that cares about you your day your life your heart. You deserve the right to have a normal respectful loving relationship and not be someones play toy. She deserves to have someone that will respect her and himself, be mature enough to realize that hes married and his decisions affect someone else's life. Being able to recognize when sacrifice/self control is in order and make his wife happy and proud to be married to him. And this fu**er should be confronted by the 2 of you in a public area, see how much of a man he is when he cant be hiding the person he really is behind all these stories he dishes out to you and the W
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