RecordProducer Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 I could never leave my children and especially not live with someone else's kids while mine are not with me so I can't tell you to leave your family. Also you are very much in love so you can't let go of the other woman. I'd say the only solution is to stay married and keep seeing her. It's only been 8 months. Perhaps in a year or two, you will realize that this girl is not so great. You'll certainly get to know her really well together with her faults and all moods and faces. I can't imagine to advise you to ditch the woman you love and die on the inside without love. And even more, I can't imagine to tell you that it's morally the best option to abandon your children for some hot ass that you've been screwing for a few months. You made a mistake by marrying your wife, but you have two children so it's not so easy to undo the mistake. How you should feel? Like a victim of your young-age choices. Like a man who is trying to NOT hurt his children by abandoning them. Like a man who spares his wife the pain. Like a man who does crazy things in the name of love. Like a liar and cheater.
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Lady Jane, thank you. that is a useful idea and I think there is some truth to that. All this addictive behavior started after coming off of some anti-depressents, although I am not looking for excuses, it could be a part of it. Thank you for your frankness and insight. Your best bet, even though you don't want to hear it.... is therapy. When a person acts outside the parameters of his own value system, he's bound for inner turmoil. If a person is catering to a behavior that's not part of what s/he really believes in, that person is lacking in self-control. Without self-control.... you're in a pretty scary place emotionally. You've displayed some fairly obvious thrill-seeking behavior, which makes me wonder if you're suffering from some kind of dopamine addiction. Oftentimes, when the body's chemical balance is out-of-whack, dopamine makes a nice little band-aid. For the short-term, it makes you feel a little better. Over the long-haul, thrill-seeking destroys your life though. There are medications available that can help you, but you have to see your medical doctor and have a VERY frank discussion with him/her, so that your symptoms can be properly assessed. Your doctor has heard it ALL, so there's no need to withhold information. The right treatment can put the fire out on the dopamine search, and can clarify your thought process, so that you have the ability to make your own choices again. Medical treatment in combination with behavioral therapy can put you back in the driver's seat of your own life again. Your choices can be YOURS, rather than made for the sake of feeding your compulsions.
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Thank you also, that was another response where you seemed to understand what I am feeling. You are so right about all those things on how I should feel a liar and a cheater in particular. I told my friend that I don't want to see her physically for a while, but we can keep in contact via the internet, but limit that too. It's worth a shot, I just know I can't let her go completely, it's just something I can't bring myself to do, not because I am addicted, I think I can get over that, it's just I see so much opportunity. As I am sure most readers are, I am a bit skeptical we can keep to just talking, but I will try really hard, at least it's something. The good news is she is going to Cape Cod for a while, so that will help. I am looking into ways where I can at least see if I can shift my marriage in a new direction, even if I don't get to a goal where I want to get, at least I can start to recognize some possible progress, in which case I will keep trying. I am very skeptical though, but will try for the sake of my little ones. I know communicating with the other woman is not helping, it's confusing this, so I just have to live with that I suppose. Obviously counseling sounds like a good idea. Although this seems dumb, I am very hard up for cash right now. So I don't know I can afford to pay for a counselor and eat at the same time. I know the church offers this kind of stuff, but I don't know how qualified church counselors are in this kind of thing? Anyone have advice, or how much a marriage counselor might cost? I think it comes down to just fundamental ways my wife and I look at the world are different. She looks at something and sees it one way and I see it another. I tried to talk to her about this and said that I think if we have any chance of suceeding we need to really understand that problem and figure out if it's even possible for us both to change, to compromise so we can be happier together. But she got very defensive, so I feel stuck, but will keep pushing. Like you suggested though, if I keep seeing my friend, we can play it very safe in terms of limiting things, just talk really (at least for the time being) and if things still look good in 18 months then maybe it might be worth thinking of making a move. We said we would give it at least a year before doing anything which was aimed at being together, but may consider divorce for other reasons (with no expectation of us being together, etc.) I do agree with other persons posts about this notion of being decieved by the newness of it all. Like buying a new car, the first few months seem great, but after that it's like just another car. I think there obviously is some truth to that. If I give it time, I can test that a little and see if after the newness wears off we still as compatible as I think we are now. I am optimistic in this respect because we just see so many things in the same way, whereas my wife and I are just at odds with each other over similar things? My wife asked me if we did split how I would want to be with my two girls and I told her more than just weekend, like nights too and she seemed receptive to that, so if worse comes to worse at least I would have a lot of time with them, but hopefully we wont have to go there. And I know while that's great for me it's far from ideal for them. I guess, one thing I didn't mention is that I come from a broken family too. My father had had an affair for a long time, and he is very happily married to her. While it was very hard for about eighteen months, everyone did okay out of it, my parents are good friends now and I can tell they are both happier. Myself and my two younger sisters all get on well with her, she really has turned out to be a great woman in our lives and a good influence, she is great to my children too. My mother has forgiven him and has remarried a really great guy from Italy, my parents talk a lot about their children and their welfare. So I guess there are situations that turn out well, I just guess that's not the norm. Maybe, that is part of the reason I am not so extreme on looking at this, just life experiences I guess. I also want to apologize for getting defensive and while I don't agree or like some of the advice I do appreciate people putting time into this, especially those with the right intentions. You made a mistake by marrying your wife, but you have two children so it's not so easy to undo the mistake. How you should feel? Like a victim of your young-age choices. Like a man who is trying to NOT hurt his children by abandoning them. Like a man who spares his wife the pain. Like a man who does crazy things in the name of love. Like a liar and cheater.
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Ironically, I have always agreed with this to some extent. But if we never strived for better things then we would never advance in life. I am sure many people in here question that what I am looking at is better, but I have to figure that out. Happiness is wanting what you have, not getting what you want. People having affairs, or considering that, should think about that statement. -ol' 2long
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 okay, thanks for replying. I am sorry your new marriage has failed. Most marriages (>50%) do I suppose, how sad is that? If I had a second chance at this, I would do everything in my power to make that marriage a success. And I promise you I will try to turn my current one around before I sucomb to the plight that you so bluntly predict. I don't understand why you feel I need to go it alone to know what I want. What if you really like what you see? I think many of you must have experienced this. But just in case it missed you, let me try to explain what I have become up against. Why I need help. First, it's a feeling I have never ever come close to feeling before. I am usually totally in control of my emotions although did go through a very difficult time a few years ago that got be a bit depressed, otherwise I am very level headed. But this is kicking my ass without mercy up and down the football field. While I have never used drugs, people describe Heroin like the best orgasm you have ever had times 1000. This is kind of like that (sorry to be crude), but more in terms of emotion. Like I don't think anything could come close to making one feel so euphoric as true undeniable love. It is something that everyone deserves to feel at least once in their life. When I see her, my heart rips through my chest and the hairs on my head stick up, it's just incredible. She is exceedingly attractive, not like one of those models with superficial looks, I mean just all out gorgeous. She has the perfect body (and I mean in every respect) and her face (you could look at it for hours in a trance) and her smell drives me crazy, her hair is softer than I have ever felt in any woman. She tells me all the time that I am the most romantic guy she has ever known bar none, and I don't even feel like I am trying to put any effort into that, it's like I just tell her how I am feeling and spills out so easily and freely. I once wrote her a letter and listed all these things I love about her, pages and pages, it took no thinking, nor revisions, just straight typing and done very quickly. When we talk, we can talk sometimes for 8,9,10 hours at a time, it's like we just can't let go. We talk about everything, anything, from how we feel, our lives, marriages, experiences, depths of our emotions and all the wonderful things in the world. It's like things fit like a jigsaw puzzle, it's like the way we communicate allows us to connect in ways that I can't describe, like I have never connected with a human like I can with her. We just flow back and fourth and it's like someone directly wired our brains together with some kind data cable. Like she may have a different opinion on something, so we get into all kinds of interesting and exciting discussions, but we are able to communicate and argue it in a way that is unlike I have ever experienced, just an amazing connection. And I don't mean to disrespect my wife, but she just doesn't seem to understand things like my friend, I don't know if that makes sense? I am not saying she is smarter overall, but just thinks in a different way, may be deeper or something? When we make love, it's like nothing I have ever felt, it's like someone has transported us to another planet. We can be wrapped around each other for hours and hours and is like pure ecstacy. It's like she knows exactly what I am thinking as she is doing stuff and she tells me I do the same for her, like we can read each others minds and what we want each other to do, like books say you can't read each others minds and you have to guide your partner, I can assure you, we don't need books or telling eahc other what we want, it just flows so naturally. Every second feels like heaven, and there is nothing aqaurd about it, it's just like it flows. Arms, legs, shoulders, feet and stuff that seem to have gotten in the way of things with previous encounters, it just doesn't come into the picture? It's just like our physical bodies are made for each other. We are both very physically fit and that helps I am sure, both our spouses are quite overweight. I have seen this kind of portrayal of love making in movies and I didn't thing it was real and I can promise you we could out-do the best love scenes of any movie ever made. I have never even come close to having an opportunity or feeling like that before. It's like pure syncronicity. When we do stuff together, it's never difficult to decide what to do, we just do it, like one of us will suggest something and we just go do it and it's always great, we laugh and talk and have a great amazing time. Again, in all my previous relationships I can't say I ever had times like that. When I can't talk to her it can be pure agony and I can sit there just in a daze for hours at a time thinking about her, wanting her. Don't get me wrong I haven't become totally disfunctional, I do what I have to at home to keep things going and I spend a lot of time with my wife, we have fun together. But she is never far from my thoughts. Like I can be giving a presentation to my students, and I will be in the middle and I have to stop and pause because she enters my mind or like I can be in the middle of a discussion and the same thing happens. I nearly crashed my car the other day because my mind went adrift (just nuts?) My feelings are so strong I could lay my life down for her. Anyway, I only say all this because I am trying to convey the extent of my feelings for her and why it's going to be so hard to walk away and try to patch things up with my wife. But why in the world would I give her up just to be alone? (that is the least logical thing I have ever heard?) In one respect I am so glad this has happened to me, because without I would never have experienced this. The feeling is almost supernatural and I can imagine a gift like this could only come directly from God, which seems so confusing given that it is all so inapropriate and seems so wrong and dangerous. I'm back even though I doubt the OP will be reading.. I know he's confused. Hey guest PO.. Been there, done that! did it 16 years ago, married my affair partner, getting a divorce soon.. takes time (husband doesn't know yet) do counseling for your sanity, do it for your STBXW (soon-to-be x wife) and start the process, because you could possibly re-marry her if that works, but you need to know what your true heart needs, without a partner!! Let me repeat this- WITHOUT A PARTNER! When you know that, you'll know what to look for in one, and how to be one, again. Seriously, you won't find out until you go it alone.
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Your affair is an addiction (it isn't just "like an addiction" it's a very real chemical high). You can't "wean" yourself off an addiction. I realize this is more news you don't want 2 hear, but you need 2 realize this. ...... -ol' 2long I abbreviated your message 2 save space. A few things you should not use the number 2 as much to say the word "to", it is very hard 2 read after a while. Reserve that for instant messaging. Second, I am very sorry to hear of your story, it sounds like you had an awful time of it. I regret that it went on for so long. It's a shame your wife didn't start talking to people sooner, at least maybe I can minimize the time where this problem is going on. I will do my best I promise you to get through this as expediently as makes sense. But I guess I can't rush things either. Third, I really venemously disagree with your statement about change. A succesful marriage is supposed to be about compromise (according to the experts, obviously I am not one of the experts), you make it sound like my wife is perfect and doesn't need to change, instead I am the one who needs to change because I have committed this great sin does not mean she is perfect either. She is a good woman overall, yes!!! But there are many things she could do better and there are many things she just doesn't do which I feel make her incompatible with what I want in a woman. I know the best answer is to make our marriage work, to tell my friend goodbye for ever. But to make it work will require a significant amount of change on both our parts, not like stupid change like "well if I get home from work by 5:30 every day, you will give me sex more often" NO that is not the kind of change that will fix a marriage. It shouldn't need those kinds of tit-for-tat tactical type changes, it needs to come from the heart, we both need to either align or go our separate ways. I need her to change who she is and I need to understand how I need to change similarly for her. The problem is, so far she doesn't seemed to have grasped that concept and I don't even know if such fundamentals are possible to change, but one has to hope.
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Hey thanks for all that advice. I appreciate it coming from someone who has or is where I am. It's so damn hard. I am not ready to leave either one of them, that's my problem I suppose. I really don't like the idea of my children being in a broken family. I have to try, but I can't let the other lady go, it's not that I don't see the logic in it, it's as logical as 1=1 but there is logic and there is physical control and emotion. Well and I guess part of me doesn't see logic in letting her go because of all the opportunity I see that might exist. I know I am not a loser, that's for sure, I have done many great things for many people and I don't feel like I need sympathy, pitty or justification, just looking for advice. Guest, Listen, as you can see you came to the wrong board for sympathy. That said, from one cheater to the other...leave the wife. I'm in your situation , I know how hard it is to leave, but you got to do it man. If your really in love with this other woman.... then your wife deserves a better life, a who will appreciate her and love her for who she is. It is so hard to do, believe me...I do know..but please just move on man. either leave your wife or cut all contact with the other woman. Your not going to be able to hide this forever. And forget what the ppl on this board say about you being a loser etc. They have not walked a mile in your shoes....
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 KnowHowLoveFeels, Thank you so much for what you wrote. It all helps a lot and seems like good advice. While, I respect advice from others, unless you have been there and done that and really know what love can do to you, then it's not that helpful. I agree totally with getting an indepenent living going if I do split up, for me and my spouse. I really want her to be comfortable and don't mind giving up as much as I can to help that happen, if for no other reason than I want my children to be happy. I don't want to move in right away with my GF because well first she may still be married, secondly even if she was split up, it wouldn't be appropriate and third for the time being I wouldn't split up with my wife just for her. I would of course keep seeing her though. I didn't quite understand your fantasy/reality thing though, I sort of see what you meant, but not quite sure. Hi Guest (the original poster)! .....
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 KHLF: Your post infuriates me. Sorry. .... Love is NOT a feeling, it's a CHOICE. GROW UP -ol' 2long What the hell are you talking about LOVE IS A CHOICE. Love is not something you choose, it just comes and when it comes it hits you like nothing, and I mean NOTHING you can describe or explain or communicate. It's like no experience in life can prepare you for it, know one can warn against, nor should they. You don't choose love, it chooses you!!!!! I thought I had been in love before, but not like this!!! Not like this at all. It may have come close to me and let me feel it's glow, but when it consumes you, there is nothing you can do but to surrender and let it toss you around at will. I guess that's why I am here, reaching out in desperation looking for something to hold onto, to get back in control. But I do agree that love is not a feeling. Love is something that takes every feeling you have and rearranges them into completely confusing patterns, causing one's behavior to become irratic and unrecognizable. And when I mean love, I am reffering of course to romantic love as opposed to the kind of intense protective love that you feel for your children.
RecordProducer Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 I do agree with other persons posts about this notion of being decieved by the newness of it all. Like buying a new car, the first few months seem great, but after that it's like just another car. If you think that this is how you would view your new woman once she wears out a little bit then don't even think about marrying her. In the first few months you're in love with your car, but later you still are happy with your choice and don't think about replacing it with another car. However if the car breaks often, if you dream about a more expensive car, and know that you can have a better one then you're not happy with it. I am perfectly happy with my 2001 Cadillac Catera, although it's not the most expensive car in the world. Once when it broke, I was thinking: "You bitch, you betrayed me!" But we worked things out and every time I am driving it, I admire its leather, comfy seats, good stereo system, and great smooth and fast ride. You get the analogy?
RecordProducer Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 This doesn't leave much to work with.Then don't work? You'll get your fee anyway!
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Sugar, Thank you for pointing that out. I guess my emotions bounced around and I have somewhat contradicted myself. I can't see me giving her up, but if I could see my marriage start to work then I would and could, only because I feel my children deserve the opportunity. It would be by far the hardest thing I have ever done, but I can see the possibility. But I wont let go of her while I feel that I can't change my marriage. I know you are probably like well you aren't going to change your marriage if you keep seeing her, and again that's a nasty constraint I have to deal with I guess. Like I said in other posts I suppose I can just do my best to limit contact. Not that you will read this.... but after you say this, how can you now say the "obvious" thing is to make your marriage work? You just stated that you promise you wont end your affair. Unless your wife is willing to share you - it just isn't possible. Which is why some feel you are are looking to hear what can't be said. You need to make up your mind about what it is you want to work then, before asking for advice.
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 If you think that this is how you would view your new woman once she wears out a little bit then don't even think about marrying her. You get the analogy? RP, I don't believe this will happen, I am just trying to give the benefit of doubt to people who maintain this. Read my post as to why I am in love and how all those things contrast with other relationships I have been in. I really do believe in my heart that while some of the newness will fade, the really important things will still be there, like all we have in common and how we percieve the world and so on.
Guest Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 RP, I would rather pay you the fee, thank you for acknowledging there are many possible answers here!!! Then don't work? You'll get your fee anyway!
sugarplum Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 A few things you should not use the number 2 as much to say the word "to", it is very hard 2 read after a while. Reserve that for instant messaging. To "OP" - notice how we kept posting, knowing even though you said you wouldn't, you would return. This says something about what we think of your ability to make a decision and stick to it. Including the marriage/affair. No amount of advice can help you generate your own will power. And the fact that you did return says you really dont know what you want, ( hence the contradicting yourself that you have acknowledged) except turn down advice given because you would have to actually deal with your situation, and you dont want to. You want a magic wand. We have none. This is how it seems to me anyway. To "guest"(s) reading reply from guest after guest, is extremely difficult to read. You lose track of who the heck is even writing. You can't tell the posts apart as far as who is who sometimes. Much more difficult 2 read than using a number 2 take the place of a word. Its also hard to get how a "guest" who choses not to register would advise someone on the way he should post. If you are going to keep on, just register! Whats the big deal? My final word of advice would be to stay married and continue the affair. Its the only advice you will take anyway. And you could have done that without ever posting!
sugarplum Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 OP - I am not a heartless wench. I really do hope you get this staightened out with the least amount of pain for all involved. I hope you decide what it is you really want to do, and without delay. But, since you are an adult, and children are innocent and victims in things like this - I hope they suffer the least. Not you. If that makes me evil, so be it.
sugarplum Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Ironically, I have always agreed with this to some extent. But if we never strived for better things then we would never advance in life. I am sure many people in here question that what I am looking at is better, but I have to figure that out. Did you inform your wife before you married her, that while married to her you intended to "strive for something better"? If you ever marry again, I hope you inform you fiance of this before you walk down the isle.
sugarplum Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 When I can't talk to her it can be pure agony and I can sit there just in a daze for hours at a time thinking about her, wanting her. Don't get me wrong I haven't become totally disfunctional, I do what I have to at home to keep things going and I spend a lot of time with my wife, we have fun together. But she is never far from my thoughts. Like I can be giving a presentation to my students, and I will be in the middle and I have to stop and pause because she enters my mind or like I can be in the middle of a discussion and the same thing happens. I nearly crashed my car the other day because my mind went adrift (just nuts?) You don't think the fact that this woman is affecting your work and driving abilities isn't dysfunctional?? Think about this. Are you really in love - or obsessed - or dependant? The feeling is almost supernatural and I can imagine a gift like this could only come directly from God, which seems so confusing given that it is all so inapropriate and seems so wrong and dangerous. I assure you, your mistress was not a gift from God to you. Try reading the 10 commandments if your going to be thinking of this as Godly in anyway. For the sake of the many lives at stake, including your own (I am not heartless wench- I just dont sugar coat) think about what is really going on.
Ladyjane14 Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Obviously counseling sounds like a good idea. Although this seems dumb, I am very hard up for cash right now. So I don't know I can afford to pay for a counselor and eat at the same time. I know the church offers this kind of stuff, but I don't know how qualified church counselors are in this kind of thing? Anyone have advice, or how much a marriage counselor might cost? You might give your health insurance company a call and see if you have benefits for mental health services. Most policies are offering this, although in some cases the co-pays can be a little high. Still, it beats the heck out of paying out-of-pocket. The expense of counseling is NOWHERE near as expensive as divorce though. Please bear that in mind. I think church-based counseling is a good thing too. But from here, it looks like your issues are going to require skilled psychological training. If your pastor has the credentials... great. If not, secular counseling might be best. I'm glad that you are considering my earlier advice to give your medical doctor a call. The fact that you have recently discontinued ADs makes me wonder if you weren't a bit precipitous in that decision. It's even possible that the last prescription you were on wasn't quite getting the job done. I'm hoping that you don't believe there's some kind of social stigma to taking medication. I've witnessed the positive effects a person can experience when his/her physiology is brought back into balance. It's the difference between night and day in some cases. You've said a few things in this thread that are troubling to me. One, is that you don't believe that other people who aren't experienced in your particular situation can understand. I don't think that's necessarily true. I think we've ALL been under the influence of strong infatuation at one point or other. It's not something that people can't understand. That said, I don't think credit is given to what a truly BIG animal 'Infatuation' can be. I think there's a tendancy to view it as some kind of puppy love and that attitude underestimates the power of it. Infatuation is kind of like the seed from which real love will either grow or wither. But in and of itself.... it's not love. It's pull is strong, that's true. It's effects are both psychological and physiological as well. For an out-of-balance man.... it's gonna push you harder than you've been pushed ever before. Because it feeds the dopamine search in an almost constant way. Love really is a choice. And right now, your body is making your choices for you. I saved my marriage by choosing to love my husband. He's a high-maintenance partner too. So it's not an easy choice some days. But every day, I choose to love him, and I choose to find an active way to show it. In re-making that choice every day, I provide impetus for him to reciprocate. I don't have control of anybody else's choices but my own, but by setting up the parameters for a healthy, loving relationship.... I make it easy for my husband to choose to reciprocate. This brings me to another point. You have taken these choices away from your wife. You've said you need changes in the marital relationship, but she doesn't know how serious the situation is does she? She doesn't know what's at stake. In my own situation, I didn't have all the information either for a long time. When I did.... that's when I made changes. There wasn't appropriate impetus before. When your partner doesn't have all the pieces to the puzzle... you can't expect her to act like she does. It's true that your wife might very well leave you when she finds out. But it's equally true that you can't expect any fundemental change to the dynamics of the relationship while she's in the dark. She can't help you if she doesn't know you need help. Recovered couples can tell you that there's a whole new element of communication and support, once the decision is made mutually to embrace reconcilliation. Mature Love rivals anything that romantic infatuation has to offer. It's a comfort that can't be imagined by someone who hasn't experienced it. I have trouble describing it, but it brings a dual nature to your existance, where you are at once both an individual and yet something more.... a part of something unified and completed accepted AS IS. I know that what you want most is to keep your foot in both worlds. But you can't move forward that way. Look down.... Your feet are stuck. Every ounce of energy that you put into the illicit relationship is essentially STOLEN off your wife's plate. You are starving her of what she needs to survive and GROW within the marriage. By denying her the truth, you've deprived her of both tools and energy. Here's an old proverb for you. (Moose used to use it in his signature line, and I just love it): A Native American grandfather was talking to his grandson about how he felt. He said, I feel as if I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is the vengeful, angry, violent one. The other wolf is the loving, compassionate one. The grandson asked him, 'which wolf will win the fight in your heart?' The grandfather answered, 'The one I feed.' Your plan to keep the OW in your life in ANY capacity is inconsistant with giving the marriage a reasonable chance. The marriage is starved of what it needs to regain it's health and will continue to wither. The ONLY way to heal it and get what you need from it involves GREAT RISK. Your wife may decide that she doesn't want you anymore. But.... that's her call. She's a human being and she deserves the right to make happiness choices, just like anyone else. Your best bet is to get your mind clear before you make the big decisions on your marriage. The repercussions of your choices are going to have life-long consequences. Best to make those choices once you're out of the fog, right? If I were you... I'd see my doctor, set up counseling, and commit myself to absolute NO CONTACT with the OW for a period of at least 3 months. These steps should clarify your mind enough so that you can address your choices with well-considered forethought.
Guest Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 Folks, Thanks for all the thoughts and advice. Even if I didn't agree with it all. Clearly I am in a big mess, but I have faith it will work out. One thing I think is that if I am a serial cheater, it ends here. I don't want to feel this way ever again and hopefully I can be forgiven for what I have done. My appologies for going on and on about how wonderful things are with the OW, I just got a bit pissed when people didn't seem to understand how love can pull on someone. I think if nothing else I got the message that I need to focus on one path, while I can't yet pull my feet out of both possiblities yet, I hope so soon, I think at least for a time I will try to get things working better in my marriage and really try hard to limit contact with the OW. If not, then I will seek a divorce based on it's own merits (not with any expectation that the OW will be with me one day). I will not ever tell my wife what is going on, but I have already let her know that our marriage is in severe danger and I am considering divorce. So that has kicked in some serious discussions. So, hey maybe I listened to you guys somewhat, so hopefully this wasn't an excercise in futility. Once again, thanks.
stockmos Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 Guest, if you want some objective advice, you might consider reading some good self-help books. Two I recommend are "Moving On", published by Relate, by Suzie Hayman, which offers very sympathetic advice to all sides of break-ups and relationship problems, including affairs etc. Also, "Feel The Fear and Do It Anyway" by Susan Jeffers offers good advice for anyone "stuck" in a situation. And IMHO, reading this thread, a lot of posters have pointed out the affair relationships tend not to last. The problem is that this perspective tends to "trap" the strayer in a negative thought cycle of more "what ifs", i.e. "what if I leave my spouse and the affair relationship doesn't work out"? Another way of looking at this is: "Okay, the relationship may burn out after 5 years, but if we have 5 great years, so what?" I am not saying this is for everyone, but putting the question his way may help you evaluate what you want, because that is a far more dynamic way of looking at how things may work out. Put it another way: say it out loud and see if you find yourself agreeing or disagreeing with the statement.
sugarplum Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 Another way of looking at this is: "Okay, the relationship may burn out after 5 years, but if we have 5 great years, so what?" So what??? This affects more than just you OP. Not like buying a new suit that you later decided you just dont like to wear. Perhaps you should ask your self instead "If it does only last years, great or not, will it be worth it?" "Will it be worth the affect it has had on my wife, kids, her husband, kids? (dont think you mentioned if she had any or I dont remember) and all of our extended families and even friends?" I guess it depend on how selfish you want to be. Many times kids dont care much for the OW/OM. If this happens, how will visits go? Will the then shortened time you spend with the kids be happy times, or a struggle? Will you have to see the kids separate from OW to keep peace? I just dont see this as a "so what" type of situation, unless your only concerns are for yourself and you are not concerned with any other relationships you have, besides the one with Ow. IMHO. We are all glad to read some of your last posts, OP. Maybe some (maybe even me;) ) were a tad harsh in the beginning, but obviously it was necessary in order for you to quit writing what a wonderful person she is, etc. and take a look at the actual matter at hand.
sugarplum Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 I am in agreement about doing the "right thing". I dont see rebuilding a marriage based on another lie as really rebuilding your marriage at all. On the other hand, I can certainly understand why you dont want to tell her. Consider strengthening some bonds with her, and getting some counseling before this comes out. Ask your counselor how to tell her this. Then be in counseling together. Perhaps she would be more forgiving if your wife know you had an obsessive, dependant realationship. I think with some counseling, you may see that this is really what it is. You seem totally unable to help yourself. I am not sure that you can say that you respect yourself, no matter how good it feels to be in her company. When you give up so much for something, you are dependant. Anyway,this might be easier to forgive than, "I went out searching for someone to screw and found one" which is what you told us in the beginning. Dont think about telling her on your own, have the guidance of a counselor.
Guest Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 Not so much a matter of being selfish, but the OP has to decide whether or not they can/want to fix the relationship with his wife. No-one should stay in a terminally unhappy relationship - this benefits no-one, kids included. The critical question is whether the OP has a future with his wife or not. Until that is answered: no progress.
Ladyjane14 Posted June 26, 2006 Posted June 26, 2006 I think if nothing else I got the message that I need to focus on one path, while I can't yet pull my feet out of both possiblities yet, I hope so soon, I think at least for a time I will try to get things working better in my marriage and really try hard to limit contact with the OW. If you "try" to limit contact with the OW... you will fail. You have to commit yourself to it and resolve to get it done. While it's certainly not suitable to waiver on that decision indefinately, I thing it's okay to give yourself a set amount of time.... and then review your choices later on down the pike. That's why I suggested to you "absolute NO CONTACT for a period of 3 months". If she's the 'real deal', she's not going anywhere. And if she's not.... best to put it to the test before you f*ck up your whole life over it, right? 3 months is roughly 90 days. That's a drop in the bucket when you consider that the future of your whole family is at stake. I don't believe less than 90 days will get the job done though. You need enough time to establish new routines. "Minimal" contact won't get the job done AT ALL. It feeds the addiction because it perpetuates the dopamine search. Every contact, every text message or email... is a little 'fix'. Each little fix rewards the dopamine search behavior by providing dopamine to the brain. The addiction itself is the wolf you need to starve. Addiction makes your decisions for you, and leaves you as a passenger on your life's journey. So, your decision on NC can be a temporary one.... but it must still be a FIRM one. I will not ever tell my wife what is going on, but I have already let her know that our marriage is in severe danger and I am considering divorce. So that has kicked in some serious discussions. This is something that you don't have to decide today. But I do hope that you'll review your choice on that once you're feeling healthier. You don't have any idea how it affects a person to be gaslighted like that. It makes the BS feel crazy. They know intuitively that something is VERY wrong, but they're told repeatedly that it's all in their head. They feel the loss of love and the withdrawal of their partner, and can only internalize it as something being intrinsically wrong with them. Since they don't have all the information, they don't know what to do. I think Milf's thread is a recent example of how painful it is to be left guessing at the truth. Sylviaguardian's old thread is a more complete example. It took months and months for her to get the whole truth from her husband. For the reader, her pain is palpable. And even today, the scars are deep... not only caused by her husband's affair, but by his willingness to leave her in an emotionally vulnerable and confused state. Gaslighting the BS is as damaging as the affair itself. (p.s. to 2long.... Thanks for the kind words. )
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