Guest Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 When I got together with my wife, I was young and had only a few girlfriends. She was gorgeous (and is still pretty attractive), at that age it was her looks that really got me. So after a lot of searching and searching and searching I come accross this girl who is just the most beautiful thing you could ever imagine. what will happen when looks start to fade on this girl and someone "more gorgeous" comes along?
Guest Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Guys, Some of you people should be ashamed of yourself. I can only begin to understand your anger towards me, but I am really hurting here and reached in here for some help. I don't need to be made into this monster. I don't recall the title of this forum "let's find someone to pick on and beat up". Instead I feel like I have an angry mob of people who have had been cheated chasing after me. Have you ever considered that this happened to you because there were problems in the marriage as opposed to it being the problem. This is a symptom not the root of a bad marriage. Has no one ever made a mistake when they were young, not knowing who they are and what they want? Could there be some element of blame on your part? Why don't you go look in the mirror. One sin does not someone a bad person. I can tell many of you are enjoying putting yourself on a pedestool to make you feel better about yourself, well I am glad I have done that for you at my expense. You know I am a human being too, I have done many good deeds for many people, I have tried very hard in marriage and I love my children and do many good things for them and I feel very bad about what I am doing. I am reaching out for help not to be mobbed and made to look like some kind of monster. I pray to God all the time and I know he loves me and if being a Christian is about being perfect all the time then I don't know I can live up to that standard. You made me feel so guilty and maybe that is deserved, but it is like you haven't stopped for one minute to put yourself into my shoes. I am asking you to put aside your bias and feelings am especially looking for advice from people who have been where I have been. Do you know what it is like to be hopelessly in love and yet unable to be with that person? If you haven't experienced that, you have no business judging me. Please separate your feelings of anger towards me, if you can't do that don't participate in this thread. If you can give good advice and I want a variety of advice then please respond otherwise go take your anger out on someone else. I really feel those that can't have done me and this whole thing a disservice, you have cheated on the purpose of this yourself. I will say this, the advice about getting counseling and ending this seems logical and I will think about it and if it really seems like I could do it, I might try and I thank that one person who suggested it and for their compassion. But telling me that is redundant with what I have heard before, I am looking for fresh ideas and thinking outside of the box. I am looking for help. If for no other reason than to help those that deserve it the most. Remember, the last thing I wont to do is cause other people to have pain. I know this is wrong and bad, but you can do good by helping here!
Guest Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Bunset, Thank you for being a reall human! I really appreciate what you said.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 first of all I have never been cheated on, but I still think its dispicable. You stated you were searching, and searching, and finally found this girl. If you were in a state to search for someone, you should have got the hell out of your marriage first. You have a family. You should put their needs before yours.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 I re-read your last post. You are right, one sin does not make someone a bad person. An eight month long sin - well, I guess I am not so sure - just my opinion. Your posts seem to be looking for more than advice. They are explaining what a great girl she is, how much you have in common....it reads more like you are pleading your case, or trying to justify. My advice is dump the girlfriend, inform your wife, kids, parents, inlaws, etc. that you have been lying to them and having an affair for 8 months. And then live with the results. If you would have told your wife in the beginning (before you went on the active search for another) it wouldn't seem so bad. You wouldn't have made a fool of her for 8 months. (how do you think her self esteem will rate when you tell her?)But if you were "searching, and searching" you set out to do this! Not something that just happened. It sounds to me, and its just my opinion, that you set out to find another while still married so you wouldn't be alone. If you have ended your marriage first, maybe you would have been. It sounds like you are looking for sympathy or forgiveness and understanding rather than advice. You are in hole now, the time to ask for advice was 8 months ago! Maybe you did ask then - I dont know.... Here is the most practial advice I can think of: Be honest with your wife and family a.s.a.p. and get an attorney.
scrybe74 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 People! - the guy is asking for advice OTHER than the obvious. He didn't ask for you to take your anger out on him for past wrongs in your life. If you want to discuss that then start your own thread. Also I don't think he's ducking responsibility here. He says he's like an addict....he's acting like one too. He's well aware that what he's doing is wrong and that it will hurt everyone involved. It's OBVIOUS and that's why he typed a rather long message in the beginning to get past it. Wow....amazing... Anyhoo... To the OP (original poster) - I won't go over the obvious things you've already considered, read about or have been told. I'll just give you my opinion BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID YOU WANTED. It's clear to me that you no longer want to be in your relationship with your wife but can't figure out how to do it without the financial and emotional fall out. And you can't or won't let go of your new love. You don't need me to tell you this but you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you leave your wife you WILL hurt her, you will hurt your kids and you will hurt yourself. That being said.....people recover. Divorces happen all the time and in the end you can still have a good relationship with your kids. Cheating on your wife behind her back was a big mistake. It would have been better to have ended the marriage first but....(spilled milk...) I think you should begin the process of ending your marriage. But don't leave your wife and kids for the new woman. THAT is the worst thing you can do. IF you're going to leave....leave with some semblance of decency. Leave for all the other reason besides this new love. Sit your wife down and let her know how you feel and separate. This will give you the time and space to think things through. Counseling is a good idea but you'll probably skip it. Try to not see this other woman if you can (you'll probably ignore that too) and really take some time figuring out if you really want to do this. It's a high price to pay for your own happiness. Accept that it's selfish and hurtful but OWN UP TO IT and do it. What you are doing now is far....far worse. If after a few weeks/months (who knows) of separation and you STILL think this marriage has no future then just follow through with the divorce. The reason I'm suggesting that you not make it about this new love is....even though you feel strongly that you and she would be great together....you have no gaurantees that she'll end her marriage, or that if she leaves her husband that she will stay with you...and if she stays with you that you will be happy in the longterm. You'll look back with regret on what you did to your kids and wife. Bottom line...if you are gonna leave...leave for the right reasons. Making it about your new love is a cop out. Blaming it on your wife is a cop out. Show what love you have left for your wife by doing what's right by her (either stay with her and re-commit your life or move on) I'm not here to judge or call you names or insult you. I'm just trying to help. I don't see a clean way out of this but anything is better than what you are doing now.
Guest Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Again, you are on the attack mode - not helpful. I am looking for advice, not justification or sympathy. Please do not respond to this if all you want to do is get mad at me. It's not the right place. When it seems like I am pleading a case, I am trying to put you into my shoes and give you my perspective so that advice is more valid. If I had said, she was just this cool girl, bla bla, and am having fun - that would be totally different. I am trying to relay the extent of my feelings. Again remember I am looking for help not to be attacked.
Guest Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Hey I really appreciate your advice. That is the kind of thing that seems helpful. And gives me something useful to think about. I really appreciate your understanding. I actually have thought about all the things you have said. I can't leave the other woman, but what I think I can do is at least turn down the heat on that, stop physically see each other, limit talking, etc. I know this is probably flawed, but maybe a step in the right direction. Something to at least try? I can also give my wife a chance again and talk through the issues I am having. I am scared to, she gets very defensive whenver I try to broach these issues no matter how I diplomatically I try to do that. If things start going better then maybe I can turn the heat off altogether with the other girl. Hard to imagine, but go to do something. So we will see, my fear is it's not just a matter of my wife fixing specific things, it's fundamental personality mismatches. Maybe my post should have just asked advice on that, at least then I wouldn't have been made into this nasty monster. People! - the guy is asking for advice OTHER than the obvious. He didn't ask for you to take your anger out on him for past wrongs in your life. If you want to discuss that then start your own thread. Also I don't think he's ducking responsibility here. He says he's like an addict....he's acting like one too. He's well aware that what he's doing is wrong and that it will hurt everyone involved. It's OBVIOUS and that's why he typed a rather long message in the beginning to get past it. Wow....amazing... Anyhoo... To the OP (original poster) - I won't go over the obvious things you've already considered, read about or have been told. I'll just give you my opinion BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID YOU WANTED. It's clear to me that you no longer want to be in your relationship with your wife but can't figure out how to do it without the financial and emotional fall out. And you can't or won't let go of your new love. You don't need me to tell you this but you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you leave your wife you WILL hurt her, you will hurt your kids and you will hurt yourself. That being said.....people recover. Divorces happen all the time and in the end you can still have a good relationship with your kids. Cheating on your wife behind her back was a big mistake. It would have been better to have ended the marriage first but....(spilled milk...) I think you should begin the process of ending your marriage. But don't leave your wife and kids for the new woman. THAT is the worst thing you can do. IF you're going to leave....leave with some semblance of decency. Leave for all the other reason besides this new love. Sit your wife down and let her know how you feel and separate. This will give you the time and space to think things through. Counseling is a good idea but you'll probably skip it. Try to not see this other woman if you can (you'll probably ignore that too) and really take some time figuring out if you really want to do this. It's a high price to pay for your own happiness. Accept that it's selfish and hurtful but OWN UP TO IT and do it. What you are doing now is far....far worse. If after a few weeks/months (who knows) of separation and you STILL think this marriage has no future then just follow through with the divorce. The reason I'm suggesting that you not make it about this new love is....even though you feel strongly that you and she would be great together....you have no gaurantees that she'll end her marriage, or that if she leaves her husband that she will stay with you...and if she stays with you that you will be happy in the longterm. You'll look back with regret on what you did to your kids and wife. Bottom line...if you are gonna leave...leave for the right reasons. Making it about your new love is a cop out. Blaming it on your wife is a cop out. Show what love you have left for your wife by doing what's right by her (either stay with her and re-commit your life or move on) I'm not here to judge or call you names or insult you. I'm just trying to help. I don't see a clean way out of this but anything is better than what you are doing now.
theantibarbie23 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Could there be some element of blame on your part? As I've said many times before the betrayed spouse is 50% at fault for the state of the marriage but the wandering spouse is 100% at fault for the affair. You chose how to resolve your marital problems and you did so by searching for an affair. Premeditation says a lot. You are not a victim of fate or chance, you went looking for this. if being a Christian is about being perfect all the time then I don't know I can live up to that standard. No but you are supposed to at least TRY to follow the major principles and guidelines of the religion you chose to subscribe to rather than ignore them when they don't suit you. Do you know what it is like to be hopelessly in love and yet unable to be with that person? If you haven't experienced that, you have no business judging me. Yup. I was in love with a taken man for five years whom I had known for fifteen but never acted on my feelings out of respect for his spouse and child. (Plus I'd rather put a gun to my own head after seeing the carnage such things can cause.) Soon after he left her we got together but he ended up feeling guilty and going back, at which point he wanted me to be the other woman and I told him to get lost. I am worth more than being someone's dirty little secret. If there was such a thing as soulmates he would of been it. He and I shared so many interests and views. We enjoyed every moment we spent together. A part of me still loves him and always will but seriously, what you have described does not sound ANYTHING like love. You are obsessed with this woman. Real love is not so needy or addictive. Real love isn't like a crackhead getting his next fix. The two are completely different. You know I am a human being too, I have done many good deeds for many people, I have tried very hard in marriage and I love my children and do many good things for them and I feel very bad about what I am doing. I am reaching out for help not to be mobbed and made to look like some kind of monster. With all due respect, it really sounds like you are seeking validation for your piss poor decisions to make you feel better about yourself rather than help. That's why you keep bringing up that you really ARE this nice guy and all the reasons as to why you are. You want to hear people tell you that you're a great guy and shouldn't feel bad about what you have done, which is why you ASKED if you should feel guilty. The bottom line is you aren't going to get better advice than to divorce your wife, like you should of done in the first place. If she is a nice person, she deserves to find someone who appricates her and will love and cherish her, right? Instead I feel like I have an angry mob of people who have had been cheated chasing after me. By the way, while I don't know these ladies personally, most of them stated they were the CHILDREN of parents who had affairs not betrayed spouses. Nor am I a betrayed spouse. We are the end result of affairs like your own.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Hello, So okay okay, I hear you say - listen dude, isn't it obvious you got to end this. Again, I promise you that wont happen, we just don't know how and really don't want to. So giving me that advice is really not going to help me at all you are just wasting time even writing it, Another bit of obvious and meaningless advice is "get your ass into intense counseling" - Other advisors are welcome, but don't give me the standard end it now, get counseling stuff - it wont mean anything. This doesn't leave much to work with.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Obviously I want someone to say something like "listen, you have to go for your dreams, your kids will adjust, bla bla bla" - but I know that's probably sugar coating things, although I have heard of such success stories I got to think my analysis of the negative concequences for the children is somewhat correct. So, what should I do, please help, again please be constructive, I will only pay attention to those "end it now" kind of responses if the person who writes it has been here and done this and I mean recognizes those love symptoms I decribe, not just some so-so affair that was fun, otherwise, sorry you just aren't qualified to understand this. This doesn't leave much to work with either, wanting folks to tell him what he wants to hear. As far as the only actual question posted..."So what should I do?" There really arent that many solutions that he hasn't already turned down. I am really not trying to be a bitch. It just sounds like he is looking for a painless solution for all involved, and that just doesn't exist, no matter how hard he wants to hear that one does.
Iwanttohope Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 If I put myself in your shoes, one of us would be shoeless. That's the first time I've heard that--that's good stuff--
sugarplum Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 Guys, . Has no one ever made a mistake when they were young, not knowing who they are and what they want? Sure, I have. And I paid for them too. I dont know how old you are, but if you've been married 10 years I assume you must be at least around 30. You are a big boy now. Time to be responsible like one. The time to not know who you are was years ago, perhaps in college.
Guest Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 ok guys this is not helping me at all!!! I will quit reading this after this post because you obviously don't understand fundamentally the purpose of when someone asks for help. I am hurting, I need help. Yes (me) I need help. It seems like some of you put yourselves in this position where you want to help my spouse but not me, yet she wont ever even read this post, so all you are doing is trying to make yourself feel better by ranting on. If you want to help my spouse you could have helped help me figure this out. Also to those who said I am looking for validation or justification I am not, just looking for advice on how to make things work one way or another. If you have never been in this situation you have absolutely no freaking clue how it feels. One person says I didn't give much to work with, I think that's pretty dumb. I think there are many possible answers, trust me I have thought through dozens and dozens of ideas and scenarios. So again, just not getting the help I thought this forum is all about. I haven't heard much from people in my situation only victims of a marriage that fell into infedility and while I sympathise with those folks it's just not helping me deal with my emotions. Like suppose the right answer is "walk away from the girlfriend", how do I begin? How can I live my first day and not go running back to her? Is there counseling for this? Is it possible to fix a marriage that seems unfixable? That's the kind of help I need, not "you are bad and should divorce your wife so she can have a man that loves and respects her", yeah my kids are gonna love that. I don't necessarily agree that divorce is the right answer, I think the best possible answer would be for me to make my marriage work (obviously), and for me to quit betraying her. I just don't know how to do it and don't know how to give the other girl up, I have tried several times and it lasted about 3 hours. I would never tell my wife what had happened, trust me it would get the burden off my shoulders but it would put it on her. I tried talking to my wife again tonight and was so diplomatic and humble and self blaming and tried to tell her how she is a great and wonderful person and it's not a right/wrong thing the way she is and the way I am, it's just who we are and if we are going to be successful we both got to change and compromise and blamed myself for at least a dozen ways I am. But when I asked her about some of the things that I am seeking she just got super defensive and mad and crying and it's like I keep trying and can't get anywhere. I have been doing this for years, but I will keep trying and in the mean time will tell my other friend we have to at least try to cool things a bit while we try and try some more. For all those trying to be constructive I thank you. For all those others who were attacking, I pitty you for lowering yourself to a mode of attacking and not helping. Go look in a mirror and I really think you should consider avoiding contributing to this forum in the future because you are most definately destructive. I think some of you need counseling because of what has happened in your situation and let go of the anger to your father or ex-husbands. I am sorry I represent that image in your mind.
sugarplum Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 So okay okay, I hear you say - listen dude, isn't it obvious you got to end this. Again, I promise you that wont happen, we just don't know how and really don't want to. Not that you will read this.... but after you say this, how can you now say the "obvious" thing is to make your marriage work? You just stated that you promise you wont end your affair. Unless your wife is willing to share you - it just isn't possible. Which is why some feel you are are looking to hear what can't be said. You need to make up your mind about what it is you want to work then, before asking for advice.
sugarplum Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 I think the best possible answer would be for me to make my marriage work (obviously), and for me to quit betraying her. Forgot to add that. This conflict with my above post, is part of what makes it difficult to give you advice that you approve of.
Magister Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 If you aren't going to divorce your wife and you don't want to stop seeing the other woman, why do you even think you have a problem? You don't. Just keep doing what you are doing.
bunset Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 I'm back even though I doubt the OP will be reading.. I know he's confused. Hey guest PO.. Been there, done that! did it 16 years ago, married my affair partner, getting a divorce soon.. takes time (husband doesn't know yet) do counseling for your sanity, do it for your STBXW (soon-to-be x wife) and start the process, because you could possibly re-marry her if that works, but you need to know what your true heart needs, without a partner!! Let me repeat this- WITHOUT A PARTNER! When you know that, you'll know what to look for in one, and how to be one, again. Seriously, you won't find out until you go it alone.
theantibarbie23 Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 No one here is a mind reader. At this point, I don't know what the heck you are looking for or want to hear. I mean look at your first post: So okay okay, I hear you say - listen dude, isn't it obvious you got to end this. Again, I promise you that wont happen, we just don't know how and really don't want to. You got to know it's true, people just aren't good at following good advice sometimes. So giving me that advice is really not going to help me at all you are just wasting time even writing it, I have had that advice, it says it in all the books. Another bit of obvious and meaningless advice is "get your ass into intense counseling" - the main issue with that is that I am just not interested in a long term future with my wife anymore, no amount of counseling will fix our fundamental incompatibilities. and compare to this: Like suppose the right answer is "walk away from the girlfriend", how do I begin? How can I live my first day and not go running back to her? Is there counseling for this? Is it possible to fix a marriage that seems unfixable? That's the kind of help I need, not "you are bad and should divorce your wife so she can have a man that loves and respects her", yeah my kids are gonna love that. I don't necessarily agree that divorce is the right answer, I think the best possible answer would be for me to make my marriage work (obviously), and for me to quit betraying her. No one in the entire world can help you with this problem until you figure out what you really want. Although you say you don't want to hear it in your first post, you really need to see a therepist on your own. You need to sort out your feelings and issues and no one here can do that for you.
Ladyjane14 Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 Like suppose the right answer is "walk away from the girlfriend", how do I begin? How can I live my first day and not go running back to her? Is there counseling for this? Is it possible to fix a marriage that seems unfixable? That's the kind of help I need, not "you are bad and should divorce your wife so she can have a man that loves and respects her", yeah my kids are gonna love that. I'm sooooo against cheating and lying. These days, STD's can be a death sentence, and it's patently unfair to allow a partner to act on the belief that s/he is in a monogamous relationship.... all the while recklessly putting them at risk. People keep telling you that what you're doing is WRONG, Guest. And the reason they're doing that.... is because you need to understand and accept that it is so. This is what gives you the impetus to change, and to take action. If you continue to hide behind a defensive posture, believing that people are just persecuting you because they're bitter, you never see the hand that's been offered to you. It takes time to put on a post. Most folks don't want to WASTE their personal time. 2long in particular put together long and well thought-out posts. True.... he was tough with you and he didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, but think about it this way.... He spent 40 minutes of his life on you that he'll never get back, just like some of these other folks. Your best bet, even though you don't want to hear it.... is therapy. When a person acts outside the parameters of his own value system, he's bound for inner turmoil. If a person is catering to a behavior that's not part of what s/he really believes in, that person is lacking in self-control. Without self-control.... you're in a pretty scary place emotionally. You've displayed some fairly obvious thrill-seeking behavior, which makes me wonder if you're suffering from some kind of dopamine addiction. Oftentimes, when the body's chemical balance is out-of-whack, dopamine makes a nice little band-aid. For the short-term, it makes you feel a little better. Over the long-haul, thrill-seeking destroys your life though. There are medications available that can help you, but you have to see your medical doctor and have a VERY frank discussion with him/her, so that your symptoms can be properly assessed. Your doctor has heard it ALL, so there's no need to withhold information. The right treatment can put the fire out on the dopamine search, and can clarify your thought process, so that you have the ability to make your own choices again. Medical treatment in combination with behavioral therapy can put you back in the driver's seat of your own life again. Your choices can be YOURS, rather than made for the sake of feeding your compulsions.
SoleMate Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 I recommend His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley, and also marriage builders "after the affair". You will find concrete advice on how to live that first day without your lover, if that is what you choose. I support your right to choose the life you want. I also support your wife's right to understand the nature of her marriage. Truth is a powerful thing and she deserves some of it. If you want to talk to your wife, you will need tactics to avoid getting discussions shut down by her anger and tears. Her response doesn't really shut you down - it's your THOUGHTS about her tears and angry words that cause you to stop communicating. Oh, sorry about the LS "cheater attack". I agree it is not productive. To all posters, if a post is not intended to be constructive and provide guidance to the OP, then I suggest just...not posting it. Maybe we could all show a little self-control and maturity in this area, thus providing a positive role model to those who are struggling with their own issues relating to self-control and maturity. Whaddya think?
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 Hi Guest (the original poster)! I really do understand what you are feeling... and it is not a good feeling to have. I did not read most posts on this thread, so please excuse me if I repeat something that's already been said. I am an married woman who has found myself in love with another married man. So I understand that you can't just 'snap out of it'. The obsession you have for the other woman is euphoric and does seem to feed a void in your life. I understand all that. And I am in a similar situation. One thing that I've found helpful is compartmentalizing your feelings. For example, can you place your intense feelings for your lover in the "fantasy category"? For this to work, you have to acknowledge that you are never going to pursue the other woman - because she is a fantasy. If you pursue, the spell would be broken, so to speak. If you are certain that you want to divorce your wife and marry the other woman, you need to establish independence from your wife first. It will make you a stronger person. First, make yourself financially independent from your wife and her from you. If she doesn't have a job, persuade her to get one. Secondly, you need to let your wife know that you intend to divorce her. This will not be easy, and is usually the step where most men stop going further. If you want further support, I suggest that you post/view the OW/OM forum. People there are generally more supportive and understanding of your situation. Good luck, and I hope you will keep posting. You do sound a lot like my MM! PS. My screen name says it all: For the first time in my life, I felt and understood what being in love makes me feel. All tingly and butterflies. I am 33 and it is the best thing that has happened to me. I do not regret one bit for having fallen for a man that I cannot have.
sugarplum Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 If you are certain that you want to divorce your wife and marry the other woman, you need to establish independence from your wife first. You should probably actually read all the posts. OP never said this. In fact, I think he said the contrary....and then contradicted his contrary, and then made conflicting statements about that - or something like that.
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted June 24, 2006 Posted June 24, 2006 KHLF: Your post infuriates me. Sorry. Like I said before 2 "guest", there are forums he can go 2 if he wants 2 continue on this path of destruction, as can you. Love is NOT a feeling, it's a CHOICE. GROW UP -ol' 2long It was unnecessary of you to spew your bitter venom on someone who was asking for support and advice. To some people, LOVE is a feeling that cannot be stopped by logical thinking. If you are so 'grown up', why can't you see that there are multiple sides to a story? Why can't you have compassion for strangers who have done YOU no wrong?
Brianschick Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Guest, Listen, as you can see you came to the wrong board for sympathy. That said, from one cheater to the other...leave the wife. I'm in your situation , I know how hard it is to leave, but you got to do it man. If your really in love with this other woman.... then your wife deserves a better life, a who will appreciate her and love her for who she is. It is so hard to do, believe me...I do know..but please just move on man. either leave your wife or cut all contact with the other woman. Your not going to be able to hide this forever. And forget what the ppl on this board say about you being a loser etc. They have not walked a mile in your shoes....
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