Guest Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Hello, It's nice to see I am not alone when looking at these threads. I have been married for 10 years and have two lovely daughters, 1 and 4. My wife is generally a good person, very honest and doesn't lie and cheat. I have always considered myself to have courage, integrity and be honest. Except when it has come to other women. First before you read my story, I appologize ahead of time to any woman or man who has ever been cheated on! I imagine that if it were done to me how bad that would make me feel. But I also ask you to be a little understanding and in particular I am looking for advice from someone that has been in my shoes. When I got together with my wife, I was young and had only a few girlfriends. She was gorgeous (and is still pretty attractive), at that age it was her looks that really got me. But after I grew up a little I started to realize that we weren't compatible in so many ways, she is not adventerous at all, she gives up when things get slightly tough, is quite negative, she isn't interested in many of the same things I am, and she doesn't like baseball!!!! (ok the last one doesn't matter, just trying to brighten the conversation.) At the same time, I had been very curious about other girls, always wanting and thinking about them. For a long time I resisted many offers and was proud of that, but eventually that crumbled to my shame. She pushed me hard into getting married and having children and gave me ultimatums and that kinds of thing. I was always too afraid or too chicken to walk away and my insecurities had kept me locked to her all these years. I don't blame her, it's my bad too, for not being stronger. I love her a lot and we get along but there is something fundamentally incompatible between us. As we have grown older our differences have become yet more apparent. It's not just a matter of getting bored of one woman, I understand that notion and I am sure it's common, but it's really just we don't like to do much together and pretty much co-exist and very infrequent do we have sex. I have a very high sex drive and she is the opposite. I had cheated in the past (please don't hate me) a few times, but they were mostly just kissing other girls and I had a few sexual encounters too, but just one night stand type things and only one involved full sex. I felt so guilty after that one and got paranoid about STDs (which luckily I don't have any). Last year though I became determined to have some sexual encounters with beautiful women and I set out on this mission to find someone on the web. I had pretty much become numb to the feeling of guilt and had resigned myself to the position that I only live once and I have been pulled along by my wife and she and I are just plain incompatible. So here I am looking for someone just to have a one night stand with (not that, that would be a good thing, but it wouldn't be complex). So after a lot of searching and searching and searching I come accross this girl who is just the most beautiful thing you could ever imagine. The idea of the one night stand rapidly and we began what has now become an 8 month relationship. She is in a near identical situation to me, she feels her husband (who is by the way is verbally abusive and many other things that are bad) and herself are incompatible, but she still loves him and bounces back and fourth between wanting to stay and wanting to leave. We found instant attraction and fell in love very quickly and very hard. We can only see each other occasionally but talk almost daily including very long telephone calls. This feeling has never come to me at this level of intensity ever and she feels the same. Along the way, he has found out I talk to her and knows she has fallen somewhat for me (not specifically in love), but she has managed to reassure him that we are just friends and nothing is going on and we rarely talk. As you might expect, we have talked a lot about leaving our spouses and being together. The thing is, people might say that a) The wife could never compete with the new woman on the scene (that I accept). b) That affairs have a less than 5% chance of turning into a succesful relationship (that I accept too as a statistic) c) That most people think they are the exception (that I accept too) d) That in two-three years I would be married to the same woman, but just with a different face (and that I fundamentally disagree with). It's like she and I have really so much in common, not specifically just like stupid stuff like we both love baseball and surfing, it's more fundamentally how we view the world, our values (yeah yeah - we both cheaters - quit the sarcasm), our attitudes, we are both very upbeat, positive, go-getters, adventerous, we both want to be good Christians. I really really believe if we were together we would be much happier. I don't think we belong in that 95% and I do believe we are in a minority that could make this work, even with the fact that she has two children and I have two children, she would retain custody most likely and I would essentially become a parent to them. I would only see my children on the weekend, but knowing my wife she would be happy for me to take them some nights during the week too. Which of course I would love. So we are both head over heals in love, but neither of us even know where to begin to make such a transition, we can't afford it financially, we know we will hurt our spouses who love us and it means breaking up two families. It seems rediculous to even consider such a plan. Our plan right now is as sensible as one might hope other than what many people would say which would be END-IT-NOW. So please when replying to this (if anyone would care to), come back and say END-IT-NOW because you are giving me/her advice we just won't take. We can't trust me we have both tried twice and within hours we are back together, we are so damn weak, but we are stuck. It really is true love, we are both locked, we both never felt it like this, it's just crazy. So our plan is, okay, let's just really take our time and think about this, we don't truly know each other so we are just going to see over time whether this idea is even remotely qualified. At the same time we are being super tripple careful not to let anyone find out. We are being discreet in every way we know how, our tactics I think are about as watertight as they could be. If our feelings continue to be strong we will both consider making a plan to end our current marriages and begin a relationship with each other. So here is the key issue 1) We feel like totally horrible people for doing this. Should we feel bad? 2) We have to lie, which makes it worse? 3) Our spouses really do love us I think more than we love them, which makes us feel even worse. 4) When we can't talk or be together it's like total agony, I get depressed and that spills over to my family life. I get dispondent in my job and so on. It's really a very bad thing. 5) Hardest of all, I look at my kids and think "how in the world could I ever do this to them?, they need their parents together, if I leave they will suffer financially, emotionally, and everything" 6) I am totally addicted to being with her, I will lie, decieve, everything just to spend time talking or visiting or whatever. When she can't talk, which is often because the husband is suspicous of us it's like pure agony. To be fair part of the reason I am even writing this letter is too help feed my addiction. So okay okay, I hear you say - listen dude, isn't it obvious you got to end this. Again, I promise you that wont happen, we just don't know how and really don't want to. You got to know it's true, people just aren't good at following good advice sometimes. So giving me that advice is really not going to help me at all you are just wasting time even writing it, I have had that advice, it says it in all the books. Another bit of obvious and meaningless advice is "get your ass into intense counseling" - the main issue with that is that I am just not interested in a long term future with my wife anymore, no amount of counseling will fix our fundamental incompatibilities. She sees the world painted blue and I see it red. See I can't escape the fact I am and she (the girlfriend) are totally and hopelessly in love, have chemistry which is nothing I have ever felt, just amazing amazing happiness when we are together. I am sure no narcotic could even begin to come close to how she makes me feel. My brain must go into overdrive in dopamine production when we are together, it's crazy, just to the point where even if this all ended today I am so glad we had this because I would have never experienced love like this if I hadn't pursued this. "It's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all". I can't escape the fact that she is way way way more compatible than my wife and vice-versa and I know for sure if I stay with my wife forever I will be forever unhappy and it's so freaking unfair to her because she loves me and is totally reliant on me. As much as you may hate me and what I am doing, I am coming here for help, I really need some good advice about what to do and I would like it especially from someone who has come out of one of these situations happy. Obviously I want someone to say something like "listen, you have to go for your dreams, your kids will adjust, bla bla bla" - but I know that's probably sugar coating things, although I have heard of such success stories I got to think my analysis of the negative concequences for the children is somewhat correct. So, what should I do, please help, again please be constructive, I will only pay attention to those "end it now" kind of responses if the person who writes it has been here and done this and I mean recognizes those love symptoms I decribe, not just some so-so affair that was fun, otherwise, sorry you just aren't qualified to understand this. Other advisors are welcome, but don't give me the standard end it now, get counseling stuff - it wont mean anything. I would like to think I am a good man and have always been told by others I am kind and generous and have integrity. All that has been shattered by my deceptions and lies, but I ask you over look this bad behavior and consider me generally to be a good guy trying to do the right thing. Finally thank you in advance to anyone who thinks they can offer useful advice, I am a freaking mess and I have people who love and depend on me so at least for their sake I thank you.
catgirl1927 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 You sound like a serial cheater, and I guess you're here looking for justification for what you're doing? You are totally the bad guy here, and you should leave your wife so she has some hope of finding someone who really loves her. The woman you are starting up with is a cheater too, and both of you will stray as soon as the reality of a real relationship hits you.
Pink Amulet Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 IMO- Here is my advice, you and the woman you are cheating should leave your spouses and save them from your presence. You sound callous, uncaring, and you don't deserve to have been blessed with a trusting family. Do your wife, and your children a favour, stop poisoning them, and leave.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 I am still struggling with your beginning, where you say she pushed you into getting married and having kids. You are married 10 years, and your oldest is 4......I would think your oldest would be 8 or 9 if she was so pushy to do this! As far as ultimatums - if it was assumed the marriage would produce children from the beginning and you were no longer willing, in some states this would be grounds for divorce. Sounds like you are blaming your wife for your cheating. Unless she holds you hostage at gunpoint, you are free to make your own decisions - and live by them. When you are out on your triple secret redezvous with the other woman, do you think about your children? What they think you are doing? Have you lied to your children too? Have you thought about how wonderful it will be when their lives are turned upside down? You are not only messing with the girlfriend, and your wife, but your children too. On another note, I am in a horrible loveless abusive marriage. I have thought many times about being with another man. I can't get out right now, but I am working on it. No matter how bad my marriage is, I will NOT be the one to blame, I will NOT cheat no matter how lonely I am because I do NOT want to be just as bad as my spouse.
Pink Amulet Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Sugarplum- good luck with your journey to happiness
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 cheating and lying to your family (including your wife, children, in-laws, etc) makes you a generally good guy trying to do the right thing??? I'm sorry, I must be on the wrong planet, could you direct me toward earth? I think you carry tremendous guilt (rightfully) and are looking for the forgiveness of strangers because it is safer that what your wife and her attorney will do to you. If you really want to do the right thing, be asking how you can reduce the pain and suffering your wife and children will endure during the divorce.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Sugarplum- good luck with your journey to happiness How kind! thank you!
theantibarbie23 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 The damage is already done so file for divorce so your wife can find a man who actually cares about her and has her best interests at heart. I can't believe you could ask if you should feel guilty over this. You could of done things the honorable way but instead decided it was acceptable to make your wife and children casualities of your selfishness by looking for an affair. Does that really sound like something you shouldn't feel bad about?! Second of all take responsiblity for yourself. The choices you made are your own so it's time to put on those big boy underoos and own your actions! No one forced you into marriage or to stay married while you were unhappy. No one put a gun to your head and told you to cheat because you were having problems. There are much better ways of dealing with problems then that. Blaming her is the coward's way out. I've never been cheated on but my mother was. I never forgave my father, even after he died. I would not bring this other woman around them for awhile, it will only confuse them more. I would consider getting councilling for yourself to help you cope with the fallout and there will be a fall out. By the way it doesn't sound like you are not in love, it sounds like infatuation/obsession. The addiction statement is a dead give away. I've heard stories like yours a thousand times. You both think you'll defy the odds, that your special. They all do, always do because the blinders are on and the fantasy is in full swing. The truth is that you are two emotionally unhealthy people when it comes to relationships (hence the affair). That very rarely results in a happy and solid long term future relationship between the two as often nethier have a big handle on loyality or are able to handle problems within the relationship in a productive manner. Good luck.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Good point. My father also cheated on my mother. Repeatedly. I love my father dearly. Respect is harder to come by.
SueBee3490 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 On another note, I am in a horrible loveless abusive marriage. I have thought many times about being with another man. I can't get out right now, but I am working on it. No matter how bad my marriage is, I will NOT be the one to blame, I will NOT cheat no matter how lonely I am because I do NOT want to be just as bad as my spouse. Sugarplum - I am also in a loveless marriage and trying to work my way out. But like you, I would never cheat no matter how bad things got. I just think cheating would magnify the problem tenfold and why drag some other poor soul, his wife/gf, their children into a mess of an affair? Do people not care about anyone other than themselves? As far as the original poster - if I were cheating on my spouse with someone who is also cheating on his spouse - then I think I could make a pretty good prediction that our future together would be always "checking" on each other to see if the other is cheating.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 I have been married for 10 years and have two lovely daughters, 1 and 4. My wife is generally a good person, very honest and doesn't lie and cheat. It's like she and I have really so much in common, not specifically just like stupid stuff like we both love baseball and surfing, it's more fundamentally how we view the world, our values (yeah yeah - we both cheaters - quit the sarcasm), our attitudes, we are both very upbeat, positive, go-getters, adventerous, we both want to be good Christians. There's the problem. You and your wife have nothing in common. She is honest, and doesn't lie and cheat. So much less important than say......baseball and surfing.
Pink Amulet Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Good point. My father also cheated on my mother. Repeatedly. I love my father dearly. Respect is harder to come by. I will never forgive my father for making me travel with the woman he was having an affair with
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 if you both truely want to be good christians *eyes rolling* take your situation to the nearest church and see what they think.
theantibarbie23 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 There's the problem. You and your wife have nothing in common. She is honest, and doesn't lie and cheat. So much less important than say......baseball and surfing. Yeah and they WANT to be good christians to boot. Just goes to show how many people put their religion aside when it doesn't suit them. People these days put their own self-gratification above all else. Above family, friends, children, and even god (those who do believe). It's sad our society now has the mentality, "it's all about me and what makes me feel good." Ah hell, sorry to threadjack. I'll keep my ramblings to myself now. He also considers himself to have courage, integrity and be honest. Except when it has come to other women. Guess what, it doesn't work that way! Ethier you are a man of integrity and honor or you're not. Ethier you are a liar, or you're not.
theantibarbie23 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 I will never forgive my father for making me travel with the woman he was having an affair with Mt father knew better than to bring any of his whores anywhere near me. I would of flipped out and would of attacked them. I was a very angry teenager at the time.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 I was angry too - and totally disgusted. At 16, I packed my bags and told my mom to divorce his cheating ass or I was leaving. She divorced him. I feel a little bad about it now, but we cetainly weren't gaining anything by having him around as a role model, or example of how to live.
Pink Amulet Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 I fortunately (or unfortunately) was too young. I can just remember this unexplainable sick feeling when I was with her
Pink Amulet Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 OP I hope these examples of pain because of our fathers actions make you realise what it is you have done...
catgirl1927 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 He also considers himself to have courage, integrity and be honest. Except when it has come to other women. Guess what, it doesn't work that way! Ethier you are a man of integrity and honor or you're not. Ethier you are a liar, or you're not. He feels this way because he doesn't believe he is doing anything wrong. He probably thinks that for a man to cheat is his right, because men are "naturally more sexual" or some nonsense like that. He has no courage, integrity or moral character. He is just a habitual cheater.
SueBee3490 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Pink & Sugarplum - So sorry for your pain of your fathers cheating. I didn't think of that angle of this whole mess. But, to the original poster, "if" you and your wife do divorce and she and her husband divorce and you 2 get together, the children will inevitably ask "how" you met and "when" you met. That would be normal. How do you explain that you were both having an affair with each other? Her 2 children and your 2 children will probably side with the betrayed parent. Your road ahead to win her 2 over will be hard because they will see you as the one that broke up their parents - the same way your 2 will look at her as breaking you and your wife up. Look at Pink & Sugarplum's heartache and feelings they have for the women their father was seeing behind their mothers' backs. You probably won't be one big happy family.
SueBee3490 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Also sorry to antibarbie for your pain - I missed where you also said your father cheated! That's unbelievable what you guys have went through.
sugarplum Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 My fathers cheating did hurt me, and I think a lot of times people don't really think of how it hurts the kids or how they carry those memories with them. They dont realize how an affair will totally change their childrens lives for ever. But I am sure my pain was nothing compared to my mother's. She deserved better. There is simply NO good excuse for cheating. Cheating is the ultimate kick in the teeth.
Pink Amulet Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Also I hate the justification "you are not cheating on your kids, only your wife", or exaplaining to children "this doesn't mean he doesn't love you". Children see things for what they are, no amount of these cliche comments will undo the damage.
theantibarbie23 Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Also I hate the justification "you are not cheating on your kids, only your wife", or exaplaining to children "this doesn't mean he doesn't love you". Children see things for what they are, no amount of these cliche comments will undo the damage. Yup. That's what I LOATHE most about (most) cheaters with children. They try and justify the hell out of what they've done to their own kids. They just refuse to see themselves as they truely are. Selfish individuals who are willing to risk emotionally devastating their own flesh and blood for their own desires... but as we all know, kids just bounce back, right? You could of fooled me!!!
bunset Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Dang! Can you taste the bitterness in here? Look, this person needs some compassion. Yes, you can criticize and be compassionate. It would help if you stuck to his questions and issues. Anyway... for our guest You've done a lot of damage to your marriage. No, DO NOT continue with this affair. Stop... establish No Contact for at least 2-3 months. Encourage your Affair partner to do the same, as below... Get thee to a counselor immediately! Discuss the issue... then get going on Marriage counseling... for 2 reasons 1> either you need to pave the road for a decent split with your wife 2> pave the road for a real rebuilding of your marriage. Both will take a VERY long time. (at least in the way time moves when you're as confused and hyped up as you are now) Give yourself no less than 6 months to work on the marriage... Then rinse and repeat! You should know what's right by then. Get started NOW... because there's so much more to life than the pain and confusion you're going through now. We do these weird things because we are afraid.. afraid to change, afraid to make changes. You've got to not worry about the total outcome. You've got to have faith in your heart and that the universe will provide the answer. Give it time and Faith!
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