Chump64 Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 hostage? Oh, the drama! Hostage Boy still needs to grow balls. Period.
Chump64 Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 I have to run but will come back later. Either I missed it or you didn't say: How is he being held hostage? Sorry if you've already said this. IMO, most of the time when people say this it's entirely bogus, especially when they cry "she will keep my kids away from me!" That is completely not legal unless the father has his rights terminated for sucking. Don't buy it. Back later.
Author a4a Posted June 22, 2006 Author Posted June 22, 2006 Because in their eyes (and I'm playing devil's advocate here, I don't necessarily agree) an affair can be undetected. Hence no devastation at all. Only they will know. The devastation of a divorce is for certain. Can't exactly divorce your spouse without them and the kids knowing. In their minds (stress the word their here) they are more happy and the wife and kids are non the wiser. Everybody wins. yeppers....... She gets to spend his money He gets to see his kids and tuck them in each night No she does not know about the details of his escapades..... I do tho.... my H does and ignores it and has for years. She would end up without her financial ease...... He would not see the kids The kids would suffer. She would not really care if they did. She is a mean person.... just mean.
bab Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 IMO, most of the time when people say this it's entirely bogus, especially when they cry "she will keep my kids away from me!" That is completely not legal unless the father has his rights terminated for sucking. Don't buy it. So, only seeing your kids on alternating weekends is enough for you? Is it enough for them to only have time with their Dad 4 days a month?? I think there are probably plenty of guys who want to see their kids every day who decide to stay in marriages that they are otherwise unhappy in. Not that they are neccessarily cheating, but I think not filing for divorce because of the extremely real risk of losing daily contact with ones children is a real fear, not "bogus".
Author a4a Posted June 22, 2006 Author Posted June 22, 2006 hostage? Oh, the drama! Hostage Boy still needs to grow balls. Period. Damn even tho he is the one putting up with the abuse he is the bad guy? Amazing..........But your right he should take the kids and move out of the country and leave her ass in a cardboard box chuck a five dollar bill in her hand and say SEE YA....... If it were a woman being treated this way and she stated she would lose her kids and business but she so wanted and need the affection of a man in her life I bet the reaction would be different. Yes she can destroy the business just as she has scammed money from it. I have no need to defend him really.... he is not me, but I can see how some people do cheat or leave a relationship without warning ....... hell I have done that myself without the cheating part..... you can only try so much then you get fed up with the situation. You weigh the possible outcomes and have to figure out if leaving is in the best interest of all involved. The only one who would benefit his leaving would be her..... I highly doubt he would get full custody I mean really. And how would having her as an X with joint custody bring him any peace.... she would certainly still use the kids against him, god forbid if he got remarried........ oh that would be the icing on the cake for her. She could have fun ruining that too. Jumping from the frying pan right into the fire.
grateful Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 So, only seeing your kids on alternating weekends is enough for you? Is it enough for them to only have time with their Dad 4 days a month?? I think there are probably plenty of guys who want to see their kids every day who decide to stay in marriages that they are otherwise unhappy in. Not that they are neccessarily cheating, but I think not filing for divorce because of the extremely real risk of losing daily contact with ones children is a real fear, not "bogus". It is no longer true that mothers automatically get custody. As I mentioned earlier, there are witnesses to her abuse (according to a4a's report of her belittling him in front of company). There is no reason he wouldn't get joint physical custody (half time, for instance if he didn't try to bring up the abuse) or maybe full physical custody with her having supervised visitation [because of the abuse]. It is antiquated to think that a man will only get 4 days a month just by virtue of being a man.
Author a4a Posted June 22, 2006 Author Posted June 22, 2006 It is no longer true that mothers automatically get custody. As I mentioned earlier, there are witnesses to her abuse (according to a4a's report of her belittling him in front of company). There is no reason he wouldn't get joint physical custody (half time, for instance if he didn't try to bring up the abuse) or maybe full physical custody with her having supervised visitation [because of the abuse]. It is antiquated to think that a man will only get 4 days a month just by virtue of being a man. We are here in the South...... I don't think Fathers are yet looked at as being able to care for 2 little girls unless mom is a crack whore or dead..... believe me she could make you think Santa was going to show up on the fourth of July. He would not have a chance in hell at full custody. Funny he does say "I love her because she is the mother of my children"..... he does have a serious sense of duty to provide and do the right thing. But after so many years of neglect ...... zero sex/ plain abuse.... I can see why he has a sexcapade a couple times a year.
bab Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 It is antiquated to think that a man will only get 4 days a month just by virtue of being a man. True. There is legitimate reason to think that he has a good chance of getting custody. But we are talking about fears, there is still a very real risk that it won't work out that way even if the risk isn't the most likely scenerio.
grateful Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 We are here in the South...... I don't think Fathers are yet looked at as being able to care for 2 little girls unless mom is a crack whore or dead..... Oh.. the South! I didn't know - - shoot that's a whole nother country as far as I'm concerned. You'll need to add that to your list of reasons why in this case cheating might be OK. Kidding - - we all have extenuating circumstances, while the South is a big ass one, I'm not totally convinced. and to bab, that's certainly true about fears trumping realities.
Author a4a Posted June 22, 2006 Author Posted June 22, 2006 Oh.. the South! I didn't know - - shoot that's a whole nother country as far as I'm concerned. You'll need to add that to your list of reasons why in this case cheating might be OK. Kidding - - we all have extenuating circumstances, while the South is a big ass one, I'm not totally convinced. and to bab, that's certainly true about fears trumping realities. Problem is we are all freaking Yankees living here! How the hell is it that there are so many of us here all of a sudden? Must be the lower cost of living and ability to exploit the native work force Of course he fears it..... he knows there is a damn good chance it is reality. Many of our friends have been divorced and Mom gets the kids and more than half $$ because I think there are so many single moms here that they want to fatten the finances for them and make sure they are not on the govt check..... also very very strict here... bible belt ya know.... Say your husband has a couple of beers in his own house after work and misses church because he has to work....... well shoot dag gone... if he ain't unfit then I bet he will be soon enough. Granted he has done some dumb things and drank too much in his own home during parties.... but not a bad father....but sure as s*** he would be found unfit....... Hell you can make up anything about a spouse. Like I said she is a professional liar...... I fear for him as well if he did leave her.
Chump64 Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 Because in their eyes (and I'm playing devil's advocate here, I don't necessarily agree) an affair can be undetected. Hence no devastation at all. Only they will know. The devastation of a divorce is for certain. Can't exactly divorce your spouse without them and the kids knowing. In their minds (stress the word their here) they are more happy and the wife and kids are non the wiser. Everybody wins. Fair enough Bab, but I read somewhere that 80 percent of affairs are eventually found out.
Chump64 Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 So, only seeing your kids on alternating weekends is enough for you? Is it enough for them to only have time with their Dad 4 days a month?? I think there are probably plenty of guys who want to see their kids every day who decide to stay in marriages that they are otherwise unhappy in. Not that they are neccessarily cheating, but I think not filing for divorce because of the extremely real risk of losing daily contact with ones children is a real fear, not "bogus". Almost any parent can petition for and receive 50 percent custody. In reality, many men who won't divorce are the same men who truly don't want 50 percent custody. It's too much work for them to be solely responsible for their kids half of the time. We are here in the South...... I don't think Fathers are yet looked at as being able to care for 2 little girls unless mom is a crack whore or dead..... believe me she could make you think Santa was going to show up on the fourth of July. He would not have a chance in hell at full custody. I call bull on this. There are lawyers in the South just like there are everywhere else on this planet. Even good ones! A4, would your friend be willing to be solely responsible for his kids 50 percent of the time?
Mz. Pixie Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 But if the cheater has attempted to face and fix the problem in a frank and honest manner for quite a bit of time....... can you blame the cheater? I also think it is odd how some people are shocked that their SO is cheating on them after attempts have been made to communicate needs and to fix the marriage....... "I never saw it coming, she/he just left me for another"........even after the long talks but change never happened in the R. So who is to blame for cheating??? I myself have a unique outlook on this whole thing- as that WAS my situation in my first marriage. I'm not just giving lip service when I say that I tried everything to fix my marriage either! I suggested marriage counseling- numerous times- I brought home books- which he wouldn't read- articles that ended up in the trash. Every time I said "I'm not happy" he would say I was the one with a problem, not the marriage, and that we just needed to have sex more. I tried raising the amount of sex we had to get him to work on the marriage, that didn't work. I printed out emotional needs questionaires from marriage builders and he didn't fill his out. He actually said he didn't have time to work on our marriage. I finally sat him down and said, "I will leave you or cheat on you if you don't start spending some time with me and working on our marriage" but to no avail. This went on for years. I didn't make an actual choice at that time to say "I'm justified by cheating to get my en's met" But when I had the affair I did alot of justifying. Now looking back on it, I still wasn't justified. I should have just left. But yeah, the fact that he's told people "I don't know what happened-she just up and left me and had an affair" is unbelievable to me because I point blank told him!
Mz. Pixie Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 We are here in the South...... I don't think Fathers are yet looked at as being able to care for 2 little girls unless mom is a crack whore or dead..... believe me she could make you think Santa was going to show up on the fourth of July. He would not have a chance in hell at full custody. Ummm not true. Actually where I live in the South a father has a pretty good chance of getting 50% custody and paying no child support to boot! Yeah, a mom still wouldn't lose custody unless they put their kids in jeopardy but the rules are getting more fair lately.
Chump64 Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 Here are some of the scenarios you put forth, which I dispute: She would end up without her financial ease...... No. She would have to get a job. And wait - earlier you made it sound like HE would end up screwed financially and now you are saying that SHE would. I'm corn-fused. He would not see the kids. Again, I have hard time believing this. More on this later. The kids would suffer. She would not really care if they did. She is a mean person.... just mean. The kids are suffering now if things are as bad as you say. She is abusive toward him and she sits around eating and watching TV all the time. Things would be better for the kids if they spent time with their parents separately. The parents would most likely be happier. Mom would have to get a job and get some sort of structure in her life, and Dad would not be a miserable victim. And if she is mean and would not care that the kids would suffer, he should be obligated not only to divorce her, but to try and get full custody. Damn even tho he is the one putting up with the abuse he is the bad guy? Nope, he’s not the “bad guy.” He is, however, in control of his own destiny. What would you say to someone who posted here and talked about a husband who cheated all the time, repeatedly? You would say, “GET OUT,” and you would probably be fairly firm on that. Why not say the same to someone who puts up with abuse? Are you talking physical abuse? Then the dude should call the cops. If it were a woman being treated this way and she stated she would lose her kids and business but she so wanted and need the affection of a man in her life I bet the reaction would be different. Gender has nothing to do with it. The problem is that I don’t buy the song and dance about him losing his business and kids. The law protects both married partners equally. And I don’t buy the line about “this is the South, we don’t have laws.” but sure as s*** he would be found unfit....... Hell you can make up anything about a spouse. Like I said she is a professional liar...... The last time I checked, evidence -- not lies -- are required in the courtroom. This has me wondering about your friend and the fact that he truly MAY be unfit. What exactly has he done? Being declared unfit is very difficult. I have several friends whose very job is to declare parents unfit – one a state's attorney, one a social worker – and it is VERY hard to be declared unfit. Very hard. Now he may have 50 percent custody stacked against him if he’s got a criminal record or something like that. But if you and your friend think he's going to be declared unfit b/c he gets drunk now and then (assuming he doesn't drive or hurt anyone -- and if he did, there would have to be proof), that is just not true. I think you and your friend are assuming things are going to go a certain way just because you are in the South.
Author a4a Posted June 22, 2006 Author Posted June 22, 2006 A4, would your friend be willing to be solely responsible for his kids 50 percent of the time? He has them dumped on him during working hours ...... skips work to go to other kids parties with them.....so sure.... of course he would have to hire a nanny to take full custody. He busts his ass at work... then only hangs with the kids, last time he actually came over was 10 months ago.......he is not allowed to have friends or go out. You cannot visit him because she starts screaming and stomping about like a 2 year old. But come on now..... his wife would make for even a worse X wife. I see her use the kids against him now. Can you imagine the 50% custody situation with her. And just because a judge says it will be this way or that way does not mean parents stick to it. A judge cannot keep her from making his life even more hellish. She would drag his ass back in court every week. Besides she does not work, does not want to work and it would not be possible for her to maintain her high spending habits and lifestyle if they divorced. She would not allow a divorce without really ruining his business. She has him by the balls......... now take out the cheating part and look at it again. Believe me I was pissed as hell when he told me he cheated the first time..... but after spending time there and with them.... I can understand it. I don't think it is right but I can understand it. I can see his reasons to ride out the storm until the kids are out of the picture. He has reached the point where working on it is futile and leaving would be worse then for him to stick it out. BTW my step father had an affair, I did encourage him to leave my mother. Nearly the same situation as this friend of ours.... he did not leave. Too much money involved and too old to start over. And guilt I would imagine, as my mother could not take care of herself either. I don't see the wife as the victim here, she openly airs her thoughts about him publically and seems to also enjoy spending the money he makes and living a higher lifestyle. She is not all that innocent either. She has her little EA's going here and there. Funny tho when they stop spending time with her they go directly to her hate and ruination list.... Nellie Olsen syndrome.
Chump64 Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 You give this woman a lot of power. On what basis would she drag him back into court? And what's up with this dude letting his wife push him around and making him take care of the kids during work hours? He sounds more messed up than she does.
Author a4a Posted June 22, 2006 Author Posted June 22, 2006 Here are some of the scenarios you put forth, which I dispute: She would end up without her financial ease...... No. She would have to get a job. And wait - earlier you made it sound like HE would end up screwed financially and now you are saying that SHE would. I'm corn-fused. He would not see the kids. Again, I have hard time believing this. More on this later. The kids would suffer. She would not really care if they did. She is a mean person.... just mean. The kids are suffering now if things are as bad as you say. She is abusive toward him and she sits around eating and watching TV all the time. Things would be better for the kids if they spent time with their parents separately. The parents would most likely be happier. Mom would have to get a job and get some sort of structure in her life, and Dad would not be a miserable victim. And if she is mean and would not care that the kids would suffer, he should be obligated not only to divorce her, but to try and get full custody. Damn even tho he is the one putting up with the abuse he is the bad guy? Nope, he’s not the “bad guy.” He is, however, in control of his own destiny. What would you say to someone who posted here and talked about a husband who cheated all the time, repeatedly? You would say, “GET OUT,” and you would probably be fairly firm on that. Why not say the same to someone who puts up with abuse? Are you talking physical abuse? Then the dude should call the cops. If it were a woman being treated this way and she stated she would lose her kids and business but she so wanted and need the affection of a man in her life I bet the reaction would be different. Gender has nothing to do with it. The problem is that I don’t buy the song and dance about him losing his business and kids. The law protects both married partners equally. And I don’t buy the line about “this is the South, we don’t have laws.” but sure as s*** he would be found unfit....... Hell you can make up anything about a spouse. Like I said she is a professional liar...... The last time I checked, evidence -- not lies -- are required in the courtroom. This has me wondering about your friend and the fact that he truly MAY be unfit. What exactly has he done? Being declared unfit is very difficult. I have several friends whose very job is to declare parents unfit – one a state's attorney, one a social worker – and it is VERY hard to be declared unfit. Very hard. Now he may have 50 percent custody stacked against him if he’s got a criminal record or something like that. But if you and your friend think he's going to be declared unfit b/c he gets drunk now and then (assuming he doesn't drive or hurt anyone -- and if he did, there would have to be proof), that is just not true. I think you and your friend are assuming things are going to go a certain way just because you are in the South. Well Chump you won't be able to see it..... you do not see how hard it would be for him to leave her..... and she would still be in his life until those kids were at least 18.......most likely much longer if not forever. She is using him, she threatens him, he believes it from her past record with him and others. He seeks out attention from another woman from time to time and that makes him an a**h***? I say he is a freaking hero for dealing with her skank ass and paying her way all these years. I would not have lasted this long for the kids or for her. As for him being unfit.....no he is not a druggie or nor does he have a record of any sort. As for court a friend of mine got accused of assault for taking back a car that a girl borrowed and did not return..(stolen).. she stated he threatened her with a gun when he picked up the car. His life was a mess over this. Funny thing tho I was the one that picked up the car, had the keys, even dropped her belongings at the police station on the way back. So yes you can make up BS about anybody. This poor guy had to deal with this s*** for 2 years until his court date and 3 witnesses including myself cleared him. If he mentioned divorce she would probably punch herself in the face and scream assault.
Chump64 Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 You started this topic with your mind made up, so why bother to ask? I give up. Tell him to continue to play victim, and at the same time, go screw anyone he wants. Just don't get caught.
Author a4a Posted June 22, 2006 Author Posted June 22, 2006 You started this topic with your mind made up, so why bother to ask? I give up. Tell him to continue to play victim, and at the same time, go screw anyone he wants. Just don't get caught. I started the topic with husbands cheating ( 2 cases). I am actually torn over this as I am anti cheating. But damn I can understand now why some men/women do cheat. That was the actual topic. The other topic was why some spouses are so shocked when they are left by a wife/husband who does try to fix things before bailing on the marriage.
Chump64 Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 Ok, fair enough. I guess I just disagree with your theory that a divorce is not feasible for this man. I think a lot of men use that as a big fat excuse b/c they want both things, or they don't want any unpleasant hassles in their lives. I think he is opting NOT to divorce and to cheat, instead, as a way to solve his problems. Which will really only exacerbate his problems tenfold. Anway... I just hope he picks a cheating partner who isn't married.
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted June 22, 2006 Posted June 22, 2006 I started the topic with husbands cheating ( 2 cases). I am actually torn over this as I am anti cheating. But damn I can understand now why some men/women do cheat. That was the actual topic. The other topic was why some spouses are so shocked when they are left by a wife/husband who does try to fix things before bailing on the marriage. I can never understand why some people cannot forgive their cheating spouse either. Sometimes, sex is just sex. A marriage is a thousand fold more complicated than extramarital affairs. But I have also accepted that it is mainly an individual stance. Some people view cheating as the final straw while others view it as the first straw in the fall out of a marriage.
crazy_grl Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 a4a, it seems you're arguing with people that your friend's wife isn't an innocent victim and your friend isn't an aweful monster, but I haven't seen anybody try to say that. I agree with whoever said that he and his wife are each 50% responsible for the marriage problems, and he is 100% responsible for cheating instead of ending the marriage. That doesn't mean he's a horrible person or his wife is an innocent victim. It means he's responsible for his own decisions, whether he's making them because she's threatening him, because of his kids or because of anything else, he's responsible for his decision to cheat. Let's say I'm miserable at my job and absolutely hate it. My boss doesn't want me to leave because he knows he can't get anyone else to do this job the way I can. To get me to stay, he threatens to make my life miserable and make sure I never work in the area again. For the sake of illustration, lets say I believe he can do that and there's a good chance he can. If I choose to stay, it's still 100% my responsibility no matter what my reason (or possibly excuse). I believe that if someone wants something bad enough, they'll find a way to make it happen. He just doesn't want out that badly. And if everyone around him is just giving him sympathy for his situation, that may be a factor in why he's staying. Also, in answer to the main question, it's never okay to cheat.
Art_Critic Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 Your wedding vows address such an issue " In the presence of God and these our friends I take thee to be my husband/wife, promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful husband/wife so long as we both shall live. " No... a person does not have the right to go outside the marriage..
whichwayisup Posted June 23, 2006 Posted June 23, 2006 I can never understand why some people cannot forgive their cheating spouse either. Sometimes, sex is just sex. One night stands are just about sex. Affairs, especially long term ones, are both physical and emotional. The only time it's OK to go outside the marriage is when BOTH husband and wife agree to have an open marriage.
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