Z's updates

[zarathustra]

Hi girls (and rossm... hee hee),

 

I've been attempting almost complete NC with my xMM. For those of you who are new here and don't know my story, I work closely with my xMM. Anyway, for the last 4 months I have asked him time and time again to not talk to me about anything but business. Every 10 days or so, he would turn something business related into a non business related conversation. Each time, I felt pulled back in emotionally. We split end of October and each day, I felt a little bit of my sanity drained and a part of my soul dying. I think those of you who are in a similar position or have been will clearly identify.

 

There have been many times when I've come here crying. I have even figured out that in order to get around my love for my xMM, I have to learn to give up hope of ever having any kind of future/relationship with him.

 

Now on to the juicy parts...

 

This past Monday, I brought up a lot of work concerns to him regarding our team. I told him what I thought and how it makes work unbearable. It was an hour long conversation. When I was done, he asked if I was finished. I said I was. Then he turned red and tears welled up in his eyes and he told me that he needed to tell me to my face that he is very sorry for all the pain that he's put me through. I said that it doesn't help that he is in contact with me regarding non business related stuff. That I need to get to the point where I don't care about him anymore. That I hate myself that I can't get there and that he's the first thought that comes to my mind when I wake up and the last thought before I fall asleep. That when I do things, I keep thinking that we could be doing all these things together. That when I sleep, I miss having his arms around me.

 

Then he tells me that he still has feelings for me and that he loves me. that he does care about me. Just that he cannot be with me. I said I understand that. Then he looked like he was really struggling so I told him to tell me what he's thinking and he said he doesn't want to burden me, that he's done enough. Anyway, we both had to go.

 

The next day, I felt like the conversation was really incomplete and I didn't know what he was going to do, so I wanted to finish off our conversation and see if we can re-establish NC. So I told him to tell me what he was struggling with. He said that he struggles with the fact that he loves and respects his wife and that he loves and respects me too. That the love he has with his wife is from having a past with her and the love he has for me is something that of emotional connection and compatibility. That I'm the one who has his heart and not his wife. That he dreams of being with me and me spending time with his kids, etc. Then reality hits him and he realizes that to be with me, he would hurt so many others. That he wouldn't know what to do if his kids are damaged by his actions. He says that having such ties with his family a future with me is impossible.

 

I told him that any relationship would be impossible based on that premise. Everyone has ties. Everyone has baggage. Everyone has issues. The problem is that his wife and kids were actually ok with his not being home, at least that's what his wife told him. I said if that's true, your wife and your kids are not what's keeping you there. I told him that he is his biggest obstacle. That he is going to drag his wife into an emotionally unfulfilling relationship so that he can be with his kids all the time. I said to him that if he cannot give his wife 100% then he is not being fair to her. He is not giving her the freedom to find that man who is willing to give her 100%. I told him that I might not like him all the time, but I do love him. That there's a part of me who will always love him. That if he is ever free to be with me, that he can find me and see if I'm free to be with him. But what I will not accept is if he left his wife for me again. What I will not accept is to be there while he is getting his life settled. I will only accept him in my life if he is settled and comfortable with his kids and if I am available. He can say all he wants right now that he cannot leave his wife, but its not because he can't, its because he won't. I told him that he needs to think about what he wants in life. That outside of the children, what makes the marriage good, what its lacking and work on it. If he doesn't want to work on it, then that's fine, don't but don't work on it because you don't want to, not because you want me. He also told me that if he and his wife were to go separate ways that he would want to live really close to her so that he can see the kids anytime. I told him that should be his first priority, his relationship with his kids. I said if that happens and that is stablized, then he can come find me and see if I'm free. If I am, I'll even go and buy a house with him on the same street because that's how important his happiness is to me. So until then, we will only deal with each other on a professional level.

 

Any bets on how long it will take him to breaking NC?

[yesmaybe]

I know most people on this board like to villify the MM - but it seems that the MM truly loves you, and is sincerely torn. He doesn't sound like a bad man. Weak and flawed, but not a bad man. I know he has hurt you, and that his ambivalence has been really s***ty.

 

Maybe, the best way for you to have true closure and NC - is to truly forgive him. Of course you're angry - but think about how much of your life you're wasting because of it!

 

Just because you stop being angry at him doesn't mean that he's totally absolved. You have to truly forgive him for YOUR sake. Don't think of anger as being tough - it's very corrosive to our life.

 

So, to have true NC, you can't put it on him. You can't be like, "Oh, well, he's going to break it, what an a**h***." You can't control his actions. This is a very confused man. But you can make the choice to stop making anger a daily part of your life. True NC isn't punitive - it's honest, sincere and kind.

 

Next time you feel anger towards him, do something else. A lot of times, we become used to the drama that anger brings in our lives. And it's a lie that we can't control anger.

 

I think, once you stop being angry at him, you will be much happier. And you will move on with your life. And ultimately, isn't that what you want?

[zarathustra]

I know most people on this board like to villify the MM - but it seems that the MM truly loves you, and is sincerely torn. He doesn't sound like a bad man. Weak and flawed, but not a bad man. I know he has hurt you, and that his ambivalence has been really s***ty.

 

Maybe, the best way for you to have true closure and NC - is to truly forgive him. Of course you're angry - but think about how much of your life you're wasting because of it!

 

Just because you stop being angry at him doesn't mean that he's totally absolved. You have to truly forgive him for YOUR sake. Don't think of anger as being tough - it's very corrosive to our life.

 

So, to have true NC, you can't put it on him. You can't be like, "Oh, well, he's going to break it, what an a**h***." You can't control his actions. This is a very confused man. But you can make the choice to stop making anger a daily part of your life. True NC isn't punitive - it's honest, sincere and kind.

 

Next time you feel anger towards him, do something else. A lot of times, we become used to the drama that anger brings in our lives. And it's a lie that we can't control anger.

 

I think, once you stop being angry at him, you will be much happier. And you will move on with your life. And ultimately, isn't that what you want?

No, I'm not angry at him anymore. I'm sad. I feel loss, but I'm ok. I will go on. I must.

 

Yes, he is torn. He is torn between what's in his heart (me) and what's in his head (his W and kids). Our soul feels connected still and it is hard for both of us right now. We are both feeling loss and neither of us can comfort each other as we are the source of each other's sadness. Such is life...

 

the bet is an inside joke between me and RC. We only bet peanuts.

[Walking away]

My MM told me almost exactly the same things your MM told you. That, and religious constraints are what are keeping him with his wife and four children.

 

I couldn't compete. It was that simple. The things that he would have to sacrifice to be with me are the very things I loved him for.

 

It was a true conundrum. And so very, very sad.

 

I am here with you Zara. I am convinced our MM are brothers...

[Jessie61]

 

Any bets on how long it will take him to breaking NC?

 

You want bets...? Well, I'll give it 24 hours.

 

I don't envy you. I cannot understand how you cope on a daily basis.... And for what it's worth, I think you have done your best in a very bad situation.

 

Let us know what happens....

 

PS. Sorry that I don't have any advice as such. I am just amazed that you manage to function so well on a day to day basis with HIM around you...

[RealityCheck]

You want bets...? Well, I'll give it 24 hours.

 

I don't envy you. I cannot understand how you cope on a daily basis.... And for what it's worth, I think you have done your best in a very bad situation.

 

Let us know what happens....

 

PS. Sorry that I don't have any advice as such. I am just amazed that you manage to function so well on a day to day basis with HIM around you...

 

I was going to say 2 days, but then Jessie's response would not surprise me at all!

 

Man! I'm with Jessie! I don't know how you cope on a daily basis with having to work with him.

 

I also, agree with WA.

 

Good luck Dolly!

[zarathustra]

I was going to say 2 days, but then Jessie's response would not surprise me at all!

 

Man! I'm with Jessie! I don't know how you cope on a daily basis with having to work with him.

 

I also, agree with WA.

 

Good luck Dolly!

I don't know how I cope either. there are times when I pray that god would take me so that I wouldn't have to endure such suffering.

 

He is seeking help professionally and will let me know about how the session went and if he's come to any conclusions about how he feels. The appointment is tomorrow what comes out of the session. So far, no word from him.

 

When we spoke, he told me that everyday he checks his email and phone hoping to see a message from me.

 

I'm a tortured soul. He's a tortured soul.

 

WA, he is staying home for himself. His kids were dealing with the separation very well the first time around as that was what was communicated to me yesterday. He cannot bear not seeing them everyday. He cannot bear not having the sense of family with them which was how he felt and not how they felt about him. So we'll see how it goes. If he leaves this time, its because he wants a better future for his wife and for himself. His kids will be better as long he takes care of himself and takes care of his wife.

[target-d]

Z - I thought you were back with your husband and working on your relationship with him. It sounds in your post like you would leave him in a minute for the MM. That doesn't sound like you're being really committed to your marriage. Maybe you should leave your husband and let him find someone who truly loves just him. . .

[zarathustra]

Z - I thought you were back with your husband and working on your relationship with him. It sounds in your post like you would leave him in a minute for the MM. That doesn't sound like you're being really committed to your marriage. Maybe you should leave your husband and let him find someone who truly loves just him. . .

No, target-d, I said that I would be with him if we were both free.

[Walking away]

I cannot say that I am not surprised by these new developments, Zara.

 

I was waiting and wondering when he would approach you with this information.

 

Some men are so predictable. To me, at least.

[zarathustra]

I cannot say that I am not surprised by these new developments, Zara.

 

I was waiting and wondering when he would approach you with this information.

 

Some men are so predictable. To me, at least.

8 months since our break up then he does this!

 

GA!

[Walking away]

You know, sweetheart, I expected this.

 

Prepare yourself for more to come....

 

You have incredible strength and dignity. Maintain it.

 

No wonder this guy can't get you out of his head or heart. You are very special.

 

Hugs

WA

[zarathustra]

You know, sweetheart, I expected this.

 

Prepare yourself for more to come....

 

You have incredible strength and dignity. Maintain it.

 

No wonder this guy can't get you out of his head or heart. You are very special.

 

Hugs

WA

*sniff* whaaaaaa!

 

I have told him the conditions that needs to be there in order for us to be together. He needs to go figure out his life, stablize his life and then he can come to me and IF I'm available, then we can have a shot at it again. IF I'm not, then he has had his chance when he had it and blew it.

 

Besides, he's seeing someone about how to deal tomorrow. No professional and likely she will help him identify what is missing in his marriage. Last time he went to see her about why he went the route he did with me was because he was not a happy person. That he did not enjoy the simple things in life.

[Walking away]

At least he realizes that he is screwed up and is seeking help. That is a step in the right direction.

 

As for you, stay strong and don't compromise yourself. I would not want you to endure any more pain than you have already endured.

 

My thoughts are ALWAYS with you.

 

WA

[zarathustra]

At least he realizes that he is screwed up and is seeking help. That is a step in the right direction.

 

As for you, stay strong and don't compromise yourself. I would not want you to endure any more pain than you have already endured.

 

My thoughts are ALWAYS with you.

 

WA

thanks!!

 

I won't. I cannot compromise in life anymore. If I do, I'll go insane.

[bunset]

Wow z,

 

you're amazingly strong under the circumstances.

I'm hoping for a fairytale ending.......

[movinon05]

Wow z,

 

you're amazingly strong under the circumstances.

I'm hoping for a fairytale ending.......

 

That's the problem right there. The word "hope".

 

btw, Z hunny bunny, you know how I feel.

[silktricks]

I told him that he needs to think about what he wants in life. That outside of the children, what makes the marriage good, what its lacking and work on it. If he doesn't want to work on it, then that's fine, don't but don't work on it because you don't want to, not because you want me.

 

What a great thing to say to him. That should at least make him think hard about SOMETHING!

 

Aside from all that, how are YOU doing, Z?

[zarathustra]

What a great thing to say to him. That should at least make him think hard about SOMETHING!

 

Aside from all that, how are YOU doing, Z?

Thanks Silk. I meant it and he is. I told him that I would try to help him work through his feelings without being biased and I have offered suggestions as to what I would do if I were in his shoes. He's telling me that a lot of the things that he had problems with have not been addressed and he's feeling like he's come full circle. I am going to continuously ask him to put his issues on the table with his W and try be himself at home (which he currently isn't).

 

As for me, I am still working on my marriage. I am looking at everything without rose coloured glasses on. I have to believe in my heart that there isn't a future with my xMM and go on with my life and live it the best way I can. I feel more emotionally bonded with my H than I was a few weeks ago after we had a talk about his not engaging me in his life. I do love him, but at the same time, I question if I'm being fair to us if I feel that there is someone out there (not xMM) who will bring me the emotional fulfillment that I need and that he should have that opportunity to have that as well.

 

I felt that my H was happiest when I was suppressing how I feel about many things and just talked of unimportant things in life. Once we get into conflict, he cannot deal... even if I am rational and calm about addressing the issues.

 

I'm feeling quite raw. I want to be happy, but I don't know what will make me happy... being alone and single? being with my H? I don't know. I'm working on finding out.

 

Wow z,

 

you're amazingly strong under the circumstances.

I'm hoping for a fairytale ending.......

Thank you for the complement. Unfortunately, I am not strong... If I were, I would have told my xMM to f-off, but I do understand what he is going through. I do care deeply and love him very much. Do I want a life him? Yes! Can I have him? Of course not, not unless we are both free and free for the right reason. I need to give myself the chance to know for sure that my M will not work before I would consider separating and divorcing my H. That I truly believe that I will be happier with the opportunity of someone who can fulfill me in the way my xMM had in the past.

 

MO, I know your take on this. I'm trying to stay true to myself and be strong for all involved without sacrificing my sanity in the process.

 

Love you too! Muaaah!

[bunset]

As for me, I am still working on my marriage. I am looking at everything without rose coloured glasses on. I have to believe in my heart that there isn't a future with my xMM and go on with my life and live it the best way I can. I feel more emotionally bonded with my H than I was a few weeks ago after we had a talk about his not engaging me in his life. I do love him, but at the same time, I question if I'm being fair to us if I feel that there is someone out there (not xMM) who will bring me the emotional fulfillment that I need and that he should have that opportunity to have that as well.

 

I felt that my H was happiest when I was suppressing how I feel about many things and just talked of unimportant things in life. Once we get into conflict, he cannot deal... even if I am rational and calm about addressing the issues.

 

I'm feeling quite raw. I want to be happy, but I don't know what will make me happy... being alone and single? being with my H? I don't know. I'm working on finding out.

I don't know if I can do that. I will, however begin counseling both IC and MC, but I'm 99% sure that I can't keep up with my 16 year marriage.

We started out as affair partners(but he was single). And it lasted this long. I have never truly been friends with him, and I need one more than I ever have before.

Thank you for the complement. Unfortunately, I am not strong... If I were, I would have told my xMM to f-off, but I do understand what he is going through. I do care deeply and love him very much. Do I want a life him? Yes! Can I have him? Of course not, not unless we are both free and free for the right reason. I need to give myself the chance to know for sure that my M will not work before I would consider separating and divorcing my H. That I truly believe that I will be happier with the opportunity of someone who can fulfill me in the way my xMM had in the past.

 

MO, I know your take on this. I'm trying to stay true to myself and be strong for all involved without sacrificing my sanity in the process.

 

Love you too! Muaaah!

And YES, you ARE strong, because you are being the most loving you ever could to your MM. You are making him work on his issues.

Now, you need to think of yourself. It is very important at this time to think about you.. just get to work on why you think that you have to find someone to fulfill you... ever!

If you're not truly happy with your marriage , I just don't see how you'll ever be. (but that's my situiation and the way I'm viewing things now)

You HAVE to find a way to be happy with yourself and whatever you do!

Until then, no matter who you're with, there will be big problems.

(I've just started my 3rd day no contact with my MM 2weeks post his d-day. I have pledged 4 weeks of not doing anything to communicate with him... if he contacts me, I'll re-direct him to his counselor

After that, I'll try to renew the argreement- in my heart- for another 6 weeks... then on and on)

I'll begin MC with my husband next month and probably begin seperation of household, finances, and child care/custody.

Hopefully, if the A comes out (only 4 week A) my husband won't want to hurt me. Until then......

Keep bieng strong and growing and having faith that things will work out for you...

Let GO of Fear!

[zarathustra]

I don't know if I can do that. I will, however begin counseling both IC and MC, but I'm 99% sure that I can't keep up with my 16 year marriage.

We started out as affair partners(but he was single). And it lasted this long. I have never truly been friends with him, and I need one more than I ever have before.

we are all here for you!!

 

And YES, you ARE strong, because you are being the most loving you ever could to your MM. You are making him work on his issues.

Now, you need to think of yourself. It is very important at this time to think about you.. just get to work on why you think that you have to find someone to fulfill you... ever!

If you're not truly happy with your marriage , I just don't see how you'll ever be. (but that's my situiation and the way I'm viewing things now)

You HAVE to find a way to be happy with yourself and whatever you do!

Until then, no matter who you're with, there will be big problems.

I have always had a problem being happy with myself. I'm quite self-deprecating. However, I recognize that I do have a lot going for me... which was something I lost when my xMM (I still refer to him as my x as we are not back together and the next time around, he will be my partner, not my MM) and I broke up I couldn't see the good things going for me. I didn't have many friends outside a small circle of very successful friends so I felt really lonely. I have now re-established some fantastic friends an realize that if my H and I do split and my xMM and I are not together, that I will be ok on my own and I should be pretty happy. I will miss my H's company but I don't think I'll miss not having a future with him because I would want him to have a better future than to be with me.

(I've just started my 3rd day no contact with my MM 2weeks post his d-day. I have pledged 4 weeks of not doing anything to communicate with him... if he contacts me, I'll re-direct him to his counselor

After that, I'll try to renew the argreement- in my heart- for another 6 weeks... then on and on)

I'll begin MC with my husband next month and probably begin seperation of household, finances, and child care/custody.

Hopefully, if the A comes out (only 4 week A) my husband won't want to hurt me. Until then......

Keep bieng strong and growing and having faith that things will work out for you...

Let GO of Fear!

I'm trying to let go of fear. I am also trying to make sure that in my heart that if my M does not work out, its not because I don't love my H, but that we have very different goals and he and I just don't communicate well with each other. He is most happy when I suppress my feelings, but that makes me very unhappy. When I voice my hurt feelings at some of the things he says, he gets defensive and we argue and it makes him unhappy that we have conflict.

 

My xMM doesn't ever want to let me go and doesn't want to lose hope of a future with me. I told him that if he is to make a genuine effort at home, then for the next 3 months, he must lose the hope and really work on it. He needs to recognize that losing hope doesn't equate to not missing and not loving someone, but recognizing that there just simply no future with this other person. I must do that again too as that's when I was able to start living again. I love my xMM more fiercely than I ever had and I didn't think it was possible, but this time, I love myself a little bit more so I think I should be able to get through it.

 

Good luck with all you are going through. Keep us posted.

[Blind Illusion]

Hi Zara, just reading and updating myself here and wanted to drop in and offer my support. I know how hard it is when your husband doesn't like to bring up and discuss any issues. Mine will actually tell me that I am causing problems when things are going well by speaking of things wrong. No, the things wrong are there and not discussing them, doesn't mean our relationship is devoid of problems. Of course he don't "get" that.

[zarathustra]

Hi Zara, just reading and updating myself here and wanted to drop in and offer my support. I know how hard it is when your husband doesn't like to bring up and discuss any issues. Mine will actually tell me that I am causing problems when things are going well by speaking of things wrong. No, the things wrong are there and not discussing them, doesn't mean our relationship is devoid of problems. Of course he don't "get" that.

H and I decided to go our separate ways today. I know that I tried my best and that its not because of the xMM that we decided not to stay together. We wanted each other to have the best matched partner and we just didn't feel like we are that person to each other anymore. Maybe I'm in shock right now, but I feel like everything will be fine and I'll be able to move on with life.

 

xMM had set a d-day for me and himself to figure out what we want out of life and our marriages. We're supposed to give it 3 months time to figure things out. I don't want to influence his decision, so I will not be telling him about me and my H. NC to start Wednesday.

[Walking away]

Zara, sweetie, I am in shock.

 

Are you doing okay?

[zarathustra]

Zara, sweetie, I am in shock.

 

Are you doing okay?

WA, had this happened a month or two ago, then no, I wouldn't be.

 

Re H, I hope that he will find the right person for him. Unfortunately I don't think I'm that person and I've been grappling on this for a while. I'm still the same woman he married. I hurt over the same issues as in the past and is happy with the same thing, but how he reacts to my hurt is where I have a lot of problems. His reaction will not change as he sees me trying to change him.

 

Re xMM, I hold no hope that my xMM will tell me 3 months from now if he knows where he's at and at this point, I don't really care. I cannot handle more than what I have on my plate right now. I told him already that I could handle friendship and no more for a long time as I think that going into anything deeper will lead to hurt and pain.

 

I need time to be on my own and be single. I need to find my sense of self now, which is what my H had time to do and I didn't when we separated.

 

I've slept 3 hours but somehow, I feel ok.