electric_sheep Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 Some people have no problem admitting when they are an ass or wrong about something. For other people it is almost impossible. Then there are the people that actually change the facts in their own head so that they are in fact right. Then there are the ones that just "can't remember". They conveniently forget the details, trying to stir up the mud so nothing is clear anymore. My girlfriend falls into one of the latter categories, and this is what I've discovered ... the ambiguity that this causes seems to make it impossible for me to totally leave the issue behind me. Since I am unsure of what was going on in her head, what her motivations were, and what exactly it is I'm supposed to be forgiving her about, or if in fact I need to be forgiving her at all, it seems like the wound occationally is re-opened ... sometimes completely unexpectedly weeks later. This is probably a default of mine, but emotions play by a rule book all their own. These people in the last couple of categories appear to be hopeless to a certain degree ... they befuddle reality to such a degree you can never be sure about anything. They also count on your uncertainty. So, what do you think ? Is it better just to come out with it ? To admit to being an ass ? I feel like I can forgive being an ass more easily than I can forgive this sort of ambiguous-not-admitting-anything-at-all-costs agnosticism. OK. That felt good.
SmoochieFace Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 Being able to admit you were wrong about something is the greatest act of courage - and so many people fail at it. To answer your question - yes, it is better to just come out with it. It demonstrates strength and courage.
ronnieromance Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 I dated a girl who would actually stick her fingers in her f***ing ears and go, "La, la, la, la, la, la, I can't hear you!" instead of admitting to bing wrong appologizing or whatever. She was an adult in every other way. 26 year-old, grown ass woman. Dude, walk now. These people are skilled at battling a logical argument with nefarious, out-of-left-field bulls***, so as to undermine you resolution. It's a physical threat, as your head may actually explode from attempting to process too much bulls***. Cut and run, man. Cut and RUN! -R-
SmoochieFace Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 I dated a girl who would actually stick her fingers in her f***ing ears and go, "La, la, la, la, la, la, I can't hear you!" instead of admitting to bing wrong appologizing or whatever. She was an adult in every other way. 26 year-old, grown ass woman. My XW did that garbage. Idiot. It should come as no surprise that it was a contributing factor in the demise of the marriage.
Pantero Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 Two options. Run this way ------------------------------------> Or run this way <-----------------------------------
Pyro Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 If anyone ever wants to have any sort of lasting relationship, they need to make sure that they admit when they have done wrong, whatever it may be. Being stubborn will not get you anywhere.
Author electric_sheep Posted June 20, 2006 Author Posted June 20, 2006 I agree with all of you, and was weighing my options, when the most incredible thing happened ... I brought a couple of things up from the past in a very calm voice, and for the first time ever she admitted she was being a bi*ch. She says she couldn't find it within herself to admit to it at the time because she was afraid I would leave her. I have to admit to being somewhat stunned. Her admission just came out of nowhere. I was expecting more game playing. I didn't even ask her to admit, she just did ... and incredibly I feel like this huge weight has been lifted off my chest. I feel vindicated. She also promised to be more mature in the future. So, now at least I'm not dealing with a lying, manipulative ass ... but rather, simply an ass. It's a lot easier. Everyone can be an ass sometimes.
Pyro Posted June 20, 2006 Posted June 20, 2006 when the most incredible thing happened ... I brought a couple of things up from the past in a very calm voice, and for the first time ever she admitted she was being a bi*ch. She says she couldn't find it within herself to admit to it at the time because she was afraid I would leave her. I have to admit to being somewhat stunned. Her admission just came out of nowhere. I was expecting more game playing. I didn't even ask her to admit, she just did ... and incredibly I feel like this huge weight has been lifted off my chest. I feel vindicated. She also promised to be more mature in the future. So, now at least I'm not dealing with a lying, manipulative ass ... but rather, simply an ass. It's a lot easier. Everyone can be an ass sometimes. Wow. I am shocked as well. Most people that I know that are stubborn will never admit their faults or being wrong. Yes we can all be asses sometimes, but we are only human.
riobikini Posted June 21, 2006 Posted June 21, 2006 The contents of this thread, so far, dredged up thoughts of the behavior of a few folks in particular, whom I have personally dealt with, who were 'hard cases' like you describe, ElectricSheep. I got a kick out of a few of the responses, -especially the one where RonnieRomance wrote about the 26 year old girlfriend sticking her fingers in her ears and saying " "La, la, la, la, la, la, I can't hear you!", instead of admitting to being wrong or appologizing.." I lost it there and laughed, spitting coffee. Seriously, there's an upside to admitting when you're wrong -being wrong is how I've learned most of what I know- and except for a little pang of embarrassment, and the effort it takes to scrape up the courage to apologize and/or make the necessary correction- it's nothing that a deep breath and a good swallow can't fix, and that's about all the negativity attached. I agree that it *does* take a certain amount of courage to make an admission to a duly human faux pas, but it's worth the admission, just to wind up on the right side, after all. (Smile) -Rio
catgirl1927 Posted June 21, 2006 Posted June 21, 2006 If I am wrong, I will admit it. If I've been a bitch, or made an ass of myself, I will say so and apologize. But I do NOT care for taking the blame when I am not wrong. It seems that is what most people want me to do. Very irritating.
amerikajin Posted June 21, 2006 Posted June 21, 2006 My girlfriend falls into one of the latter categories, and this is what I've discovered ... the ambiguity that this causes seems to make it impossible for me to totally leave the issue behind me. It's important for a man to take control of the situation through his actions instead of relying on lectures. Some women are mature enough to sit through and hear a man out, but in my experience, it seems like the one consistent fault in the women I've had a high interest level in is that they insist on trying to control the relationship through manipulation. One of my biggest pet peeves is the need for some women to win every argument. Some women actual perfect the art of winning an argument, knowing that the average man doesn't stand a chance - especially if he's bedazzled by her beauty. Establish fairly early in the relationship that you are smitten with your s.o. but not in awe of her. Don't put up with her crap for a second. If you know that she's being disrespectful and yet she criticizes you for 'being an ass' when you've finally had enough and have something to say about it, just start pulling back. Pull out of the relationship and force her to stop playing the little mind games. Because no matter what kind of manipulation she's into, if she knows her games are going to leave her without anyone to manipulate, she'll soon stop. And when she stops playing those games, you will have established control and male dominance, which is what she's looking for anyway. I finally got sick of my girlfriend's crap last night and just laid it out on the line - either you shape up, or we're done. She called me back in 20 minutes, in tears, practically begging me to take her back. This girl has guys chasing her all the time, suffocating her with 'nice'. And who's she with??? Me. The nice a**h***.
Author electric_sheep Posted June 21, 2006 Author Posted June 21, 2006 Establish fairly early in the relationship that you are smitten with your s.o. but not in awe of her. Don't put up with her crap for a second. If you know that she's being disrespectful and yet she criticizes you for 'being an ass' when you've finally had enough and have something to say about it, just start pulling back. Pull out of the relationship and force her to stop playing the little mind games. Because no matter what kind of manipulation she's into, if she knows her games are going to leave her without anyone to manipulate, she'll soon stop. And when she stops playing those games, you will have established control and male dominance, which is what she's looking for anyway. I don't consider myself sexist at all, nor do I like stereotypes, but there is so much wisdom in this reply I've copied it and emailed it to myself. As with men, there is an infinite variety of women out there, but for whatever reason I have dated plenty that absolutely love the mind games and can't bat their eyelashes without being manipulative. I thought this was a different issue, but now I see how they are related. This never-taking-the-blame and muddling-the-truth is all about emotional manipulation. They can muddle the truth so much you feel like your reality is falling apart. I guess the objective is to throw a smoke screen up to confuse you, so you can't escape. Then some people exploit loopholes and technicalities in what's "right and wrong". They are technically "right", but a**h***s and manipulative all the same. I hate conforming to stereotypes, but my current gf loved her last boyfriend madly despite him being an ass to her. After 4 months of dating, I had finally had it with her mind games and manipulation and I called her on it. I started feeling less for her and became far more independent and straight forward (aka "saying it like it is"). Once she picked up on this, I suddenly was the love of her life. I hadn't dated for a while before going out with her. I had completely forgotten how much of a power struggle dating some people can be. Power struggles, mind games, and emotional manipulation. The thing I hate most is after a while I started playing along. Worse yet, I may be even better at it now than she is.
MassiveAtom Posted June 21, 2006 Posted June 21, 2006 This never-taking-the-blame and muddling-the-truth is all about emotional manipulation. They can muddle the truth so much you feel like your reality is falling apart. I guess the objective is to throw a smoke screen up to confuse you, so you can't escape. That's my exgf to a tee! I remember cheecking in with her for clarification once, you, listen, reword, repeat, and her reply was "How could you think I said that? when I clearly meant [this]! If you think I could think something like that then I don't think we should be together. Emotional manipulation is emotional abuse.
whichwayisup Posted June 21, 2006 Posted June 21, 2006 Hey! Welcome back MA! Long time no see! I have no problem admitting my mistakes, admitting that I'm wrong or saying sorry. Sometimes you just gotta swallow the pride and ego...What's more important?? Being right? And the other person wrong? So many people get caught up in that bullcrap...
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