Give Me an Honest Answer: Women and Their Insecurities

[Sapiens]

 

So it's not about 'jealousy' or 'insecurity' but rather the absolute truth that friendship very often can lead to love so it's not an unrealistic fear.

 

 

There are different kinds of love. The way you love your parents, the way you love your siblings, the way you love your friends, the way a parent may love his/her children.

 

The misunderstanding is that with your partner the initial attraction is a physical/sexual response, developing to the next stage in a mature, sensible manner is the problem.

 

What you describe here is what makes the non sexual relationships flourish so well:

 

spend-time-alone-together, share-joys-and-sorrows, support-and-help type friends because that's what people who love each other do and that's how friendship can become love.

 

 

Those circumstances are what creates the opportunity to develop trust and a solid bond. That’s how our loved ones become to be our loved ones, through exactly those circumstances.

 

Younger and immature individuals don't know where to stop and soon cross the line from a platonic to romantic interaction.

 

Also, I had a class where the professor pointed out that a parent may physically find his/her adult child sexually attractive, yet the parent “MUST KNOW” that it is wrong to pursue that attraction any further.

 

That's the responsibility of being an adult is all about, knowing the rules, its boundaries and respecting them.

 

-Sapiens

[amerikajin]

Pink Amulet,

 

Sorry, I should have been more clear but sometimes it's hard to include everything you want to say in one post.

 

I guess I was referring to hot women who, in particular, fall in love with their own looks. A lot of physically attractive women (and people in general) fall victim to their own gift of beauty. As you say, though, there are indeed hot women who like the fact they are hot but who also, out of their own natural desire to live life to its fullest, develop other aspects of their character and accentuate these personal traits in addition to their looks. These women are absolutely devastating, and few guys can handle them, which brings with it an entirely different problem: finding a man who can be man enough to be in her presence for more than a night. Maybe for these women, they fear losing a man who's so hard to find in the first place.

[Sapiens]

Most women have a hard time convincing themselves, that they're a good catch. They focus their energy on jealousy, beauty, and self-worth.

 

I agree with you in this. It is not only women that are unsure of their value, all of us that go through this, men are no different.

 

 

I don't do the jealousy thing with him - we talk pretty openly about stuff. I guess its the thought of it that makes me jealous rather than anything going on in reality.

 

The thought of what? Him being with someone else?

 

 

 

It's mostly about the partner and wondering whether I've chosen someone real and prone to being mislead by his *own* insecurities, than mine.

 

-Rio

 

Rio, excellent point here! This is where mutual communication is very important. If your SO has not worked out his/her own demons there is little hope of you working them out for him/her. So you must understand it's not you but them that have to improve. Tricky.

 

-Sapiens

[Pink Amulet]

Amerikajin- Haha, good point and thanks for your apology, although unneccesary. I would like to think I am one of those women who as you say:

 

"who like the fact they are hot but who also, out of their own natural desire to live life to its fullest, develop other aspects of their character and accentuate these personal traits in addition to their looks."

 

You have summed up everything I have been trying to say! Smart man!

 

Riobikini- What a wonderful woman you sound like! Sapiens... that post is the answer to this thread.

[Outcast]

Younger and immature individuals don't know where to stop and soon cross the line from a platonic to romantic interaction.

 

I'm sorry Sapien, but you're setting yourself up for a fall if you believe this. NOBODY is immune to falling for a friend.

 

Love is NOT about physical attraction alone, nor even principally. It's about emotional intimacy and closeness and those things are easily created through platonic relationships. Sure, at first you may be horny but that's not what keeps you together with your partner. It's the shared experiences and the sharing of experience that bonds people.

 

And if you start sharing experience and experiences with another female, you will risk falling for her.

 

People who end up in affairs are the ones that think, as you do, that you can 'handle' just being 'close friends' with other females. All of psychology will tell you that won't work and why.

[Sapiens]

Sure- I have added comment in bold to this post... It isn't an attack on you amerikajin, I am just defending my honor!

 

Thanks PinkAmulet!

 

-Sapiens

[Sapiens]

 

These women are absolutely devastating, and few guys can handle them, which brings with it an entirely different problem: finding a man who can be man enough to be in her presence for more than a night. Maybe for these women, they fear losing a man who's so hard to find in the first place.

 

Man! I see what you mean. Excellent point!

 

-Sapiens

[riobikini]

PinkAmulet: " Riobikini- What a wonderful woman you sound like! "

 

Thank you. (Smile)

 

Sapien, -absolutely super thread!

 

Amerikajin, -excellent insight, as usual! (I saved your post a month ago, on 'jealousy', -it was too good to allow it to get lost).

 

-Rio

[Sapiens]

 

Sapien, -absolutely super thread!

 

-Rio

 

I agree, we have gotten awesome insight!

 

-Sapiens

[EnigmaXOXO]

Half of it for me is my social conditioning (my traditional family upbringing), the other half is from my own relationship experiences.

 

My mother never entertained male friends in the absence of my father. It just wasn't done. My father, however, had MANY female friends (fans & groupies) when he was younger and a few of those friendships turned into sexual flings at critical points in their marriage when things were rocky and my father needed a sympathetic ear and ego boost to affirm his masculinity. My father's immaturity, "insecurities" and so-called friendships emotionally devastated my mother and almost destroyed our family.

 

I mentally filed that.

 

When I married, I also did not entertain male friends in the absence of my husband. I had plenty of gal pals to fill that social void. But my husband had a female friend who he referred to as "a sister" to him. Although she was not supportive of our relationship ( made many negative comments to him about me ) I did my best to make her feel welcomed in our lives and in our home. I made her a bridesmaid in my wedding (at my husband and his family's request), and God Mother to my daughter. I was very young and naive at that time (only nineteen) so there were a lot of tell-tale signs I ignored then that I would not be so blind to overlook today.

 

Sister moved right next door to us, and every time my husband came home drunk or high, and we had a spat about his behavior, he'd run over to her house for support and a sympathetic ear. I quickly found myself the odd-man-out and the bad guy in their relationship. There were other incidents over the years ( blatant gestures of affection between them ) that signaled to me that there was a lot more than a platonic friendship going on between them.

 

Call it "insecure" if you must, but I became increasingly more suspicious and resentful. Fifteen years later, only AFTER our divorce did our mutual friends come forward to reveal that my husband and his sister-friend were having a sexual affair during the first few years of my marriage. It was a rocky time and my struggling to get my husband into recovery for his multiple addictions had turned me into his adversary while she got to be the 'nice-girl' and sympathetic enabler. Our friends in common didn't come forward with what they knew at the time because they said: "they didn't want to get involved and be responsible for our break-up."

 

I mentally filed that.

 

Over the years, I have seen many of my married gal pals become sexually involved with men they initially befriended. Particularly during rough patches in their committed relationships when they stopped talking to their husbands and began confiding in their male buddies and co-workers instead.

 

I mentally filed that.

 

Similarly, during the first few months of my relationship with my current partner, I witnessed (in silent expectation) as several of his female buddies gradually become possessive of him and jealous of his new relationship with me. All three of them made a desperate last-minute play to win his affections and offered to turn their platonic friendships back into something more. I didn't have to say or do anything except sit back and watch the cat fight as my "insecure" suspicions were once again brought to fruition.

 

I mentally filed that.

 

I also had two male buddies at the time I first met John. Surprisingly, one of them who was totally against committed relationships (wanted the freedom to casually date around for awhile) suddenly decided he wanted to have a "relationship talk" the moment he saw that I was becoming increasing more enamored with this new guy.

 

I mentally filed that, too.

 

Because of our unique shared experiences with the opposite-sex-friend thing, my partner and I now have a 'mutual' understanding between us that this is not something we want to deal with in our relationship. And out of respect for one another we do not spend one-on-one time with opposite sex friends, speak negatively about each other or our relationship to strangers, or confide our woes in members of the opposite sex. Perhaps that means we're both insecure, but it's one of the many relationship issues we have been happy thus far to avoid, and it has made our relationship, friendship, and confidence in each other stronger than ever.

 

It may not be the ideal scenario for some couples (to each his own) … but it has certainly worked for us! And if that makes us look "jealous" and "insecure" to the outside world, then we merrily celebrate our mutual dysfunctions.

 

H*ll, I'll even wear the tee-shirt!

[LucreziaBorgia]

The thought of what? Him being with someone else?

-Sapiens

 

I think its not him being with someone else, but rather how I would feel if he wanted to be with someone else. I am still burned from my separation from my husband last year. Last year the STBX came to me and said the he was unhappy and wanted to be with other people (an open marriage, as it were) and I am left always wondering if I am good enough for someone to want just me. With my new guy - I know he doesn't want anyone else, but my past experience with this has scarred me into fearing that even when the fear is completely unfounded.

 

I guess the threat isn't other women, but the fear that he might want to be with another woman. As it is, women can throw themselves at him (and they have) but he turns a blind eye to that because he wants to be with just me (which thrills me) but there is that old fear. Once burned, they say...

 

Lets say that jealousy isn't the issue so much as it is my own insecurities formed from my experience last year. Other women aren't a threat to me. Its more a fear that he will want other women. I guess that is to be expected with what I went through last year.

[Sapiens]

 

Because of our unique shared experiences with the opposite-sex-friend thing, my partner and I now have a 'mutual' understanding between us that this is not something we want to deal with in our relationship. And out of respect for one another we do not spend one-on-one time with opposite sex friends, speak negatively about each other or our relationship to strangers, or confide our woes in members of the opposite sex. Perhaps that means we're both insecure, but it's one of the many relationship issues we have been happy thus far to avoid, and it has made our relationship, friendship, and confidence in each other stronger than ever.

 

 

What you have pointed out here is "mutual communication." Both of you have put the cards on the table and have made the decision to deal with your issues.

 

That's what a true relationship is about. I would not call that insecurity, I would call it "facing reality."

 

Good for you and your partner, I wish you a long, healthy and happy life.

 

-Sapiens

[Pink Amulet]

I agree. Once burned... I think I will now be a much more suspicious individual. Unfortunately

[Sapiens]

 

I am left always wondering if I am good enough for someone to want just me.

 

You should not wonder. You ARE good enough!! Someone else's stupidity should not make you feel that way. As a matter of fact, never give any one the authority to make you feel inferior!

 

 

As it is, women can throw themselves at him (and they have) but he turns a blind eye to that because he wants to be with just me (which thrills me) but there is that old fear. Once burned, they say...

 

 

I have this happen to me a lot. Especially when I am in a relationship and they see the interaction between myself and my SO.

 

I had women hand me their phone number in front of my SO! Something I as a man would never do to another couple.

 

-Sapiens

[Tim'sAngel]

Good post Enigma!! I dont think in your case "insecure" would be the word, rather cautious. I think it always wise to sit back and observe with a watchful eye, not a jealous one. There is a big difference. It sounds like the many observations you made throughout your life has contributed to a happy and fulfilling relationship today!! Good for you!! I applaud you and your partner for making such a wise decision, I wish others would do the same, it would save alot of heartache.

 

Which brings me back to what I said in my post about women defining themsevles through men. The girl your first hubby was "friends" with was the insecure one. In fact, JMHO, all the women that are all the sudden threatened by their male friends SO's or spouses are highly insecure. These are the men that they don't necessarily want to be with, but also do not want anyone else to have. When they do find someone to start a relationship with, these women become insanely jealous and have connive and devise ways of sneeking into the relationship and getting the attention away from the SO/W and back to them. This feeds them in a sick way and they thrive off of the thrill of chasing after a taken man. These are the insecure ones. These are the ones that lack the self confidence of settling down and finding one person to love and cherish them, prolly because they know what women like them can do to a relationship....

 

Sorry, I know this got a bit off topic. Enigma just provoked some thoughts I wanted to share.

[Sapiens]

 

The girl your first hubby was "friends" with was the insecure one. In fact, JMHO, all the women that are all the sudden threatened by their male friends SO's or spouses are highly insecure. These are the men that they don't necessarily want to be with, but also do not want anyone else to have.

 

 

And selfish.

 

The men are also immature, since they should know that the relationship with their SO/W takes priority.

 

-Sapiens

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

My most horrible experience with women has been their jealousy. Every woman I have dated has been jealous of me talking or making friends with other women. Although I have outgrown the need to “sow” my seeds, I could never understand their jealousy toward other women.

 

If you are a woman, please tell me what makes you insecure about your man and other women?

 

 

My first thought on a guy who complains that his GF/SO is insecure or becomes jealous easily is this: he is a 'player' or he is too dense to understand how his actions are being perceived by others. After reading every single post on this thread, I stand by this thought.

 

Many great posts here. However, if you want to know what makes ME insecure about my man... well, 1) he'd have to be flagrantly flirting with an attractive woman right in front of me! 2) I'd have to be a whole lot uglier than that woman; or 3) I know that he follows his dick more so than his head. So which of the 3 cases describes you??? Come on, let's be honest here. I'm not trying to bash you.

 

Although I agree with alot of what Amerikajin says - and he is a very smart guy - I don't agree that 'hot women' are more insecure than the '6,7, or 8' girls. Whether a woman is secure with herself depends on several things:

 

1. her overall outward attractiveness: the more beautiful she is, the more confident she is generally (despite what Amerikajin says)!

 

2. her educational level: the more intelligent and well-educated she is, the more money she makes and the more power she has over men, and the more secure she is. 'nough said.

 

3. her inner peace: this depends a large part on her childhood, how she was raised, what her values are, how she defines her boundaries.

 

4. her problem solving abilities: this is one of the biggest, I think. Many women can have all the above, but when her SO hangs out with an attractive woman, and she loses it. She forgets who she is and she doesn't know how to pull herself out of her misery. A woman who can solve problems, will a) know how to set her SO straight and/or b) detach herself from the moment of weakness.

 

A big problem with many girls in America is their desire to depend on their men. when they put all their eggs in one basket - is there any wonder that they are going to freak out over little things??

 

If your GF is giving you grief for talking to girls - listen to that. Do you give her a good reason to be secure and happy by being 'friendly' with other girls? If her 'insecurity' drives you crazy, why are you eliciting this kind of response from her? Finally, I just find it ironic - and a tad sadistic of you - that you continually bring out your GF's insecurities having been insecure yourself most of your life!!!!!! HELLO??? :sick:

[Pink Amulet]

2) I'd have to be a whole lot uglier than that woman;

 

Well you can leave that one at the door because the women my ex cheated on me with were nothing special. I then did research and found most other women are no more/and more often than not less attractive than their current partners.

 

Infidelity has little to do with the other woman and more to do with your man.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Infidelity has little to do with the other woman and more to do with your man.

 

I absolutely agree with that. However, I thought we were discussing the issue of women's insecurities!!! (And an ugly woman is not goin to make me insecure.)

[crazy_grl]

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been brought up.

 

If you've had a continuous problem with women being insecure and jealous, it could be the women you pick BUT it could be the way you act as well. For a person to be secure in their relationship, the other person has to give them reason to be secure. When I know that the guy I'm with wants to be with me, it doesn't bother me at all when he talks to other girls. In fact, it can be a turn on when I know other girls want him but he's only interested in me. However, if my feelings for a guy are strong and I don't know where he stands, like he's sending mixed messages, and then when I see him talking to another girl or a lot of other girls, I'll probably feel jealous and be insecure.

 

So what I'm saying is that you should think about whether or not you're giving your women reason to feel secure. Maybe next time you're dating a woman and she gets jealous and upset, you can talk to her about her concern and ask her how you can make her feel more secure.

[Outcast]

And out of respect for one another we do not spend one-on-one time with opposite sex friends, speak negatively about each other or our relationship to strangers, or confide our woes in members of the opposite sex. Perhaps that means we're both insecure

 

Not in the least. Relationship experts will tell you that your stories are by no means unique and that MANY affairs begin when people think they can be 'just friends' with a person of the other sex.

[Sapiens]

 

Many great posts here. However, if you want to know what makes ME insecure about my man... well, 1) he'd have to be flagrantly flirting with an attractive woman right in front of me! 2) I'd have to be a whole lot uglier than that woman; or 3) I know that he follows his dick more so than his head. So which of the 3 cases describes you??? Come on, let's be honest here. I'm not trying to bash you.

 

 

I know you have more options than those. If not, they speak more about you than about me.

 

 

If your GF is giving you grief for talking to girls - listen to that. Do you give her a good reason to be secure and happy by being 'friendly' with other girls? If her 'insecurity' drives you crazy, why are you eliciting this kind of response from her? Finally, I just find it ironic - and a tad sadistic of you - that you continually bring out your GF's insecurities having been insecure yourself most of your life!!!!!! HELLO??? :sick:

 

 

Like I said, I have worked out my end, I am now looking to find the one that has worked out her own demons.

 

Cheers,

 

-Sapiens

[Sapiens]

Not in the least. Relationship experts will tell you that your stories are by no means unique and that MANY affairs begin when people think they can be 'just friends' with a person of the other sex.

 

LOL, contrary to popular belief not every man wants to have intercourse with every woman.

 

There are very beautiful women that lack character and a wise man would not come to get involved with them.

 

It may be in your particular case Outcast that you can't have platonic male friendships.

 

-Sapiens