alfagrl Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Continued from another thread. Like I said in another thead. My friendliness at times is perceived as flirting to men/MM. At work the on friday I am chit chating with one of the guys on the job (we're also friends outside of work). While we were talking 3 men walked by and addressed me ,sort of to the lines like, "hey (alfagrl) have a good weekend." one waved bye as he walked out the door. another excused himself as he interupped our converation to talk to me. The fellow I was originally talking to makes a comment, "He wants you." I say "Oh pls he's married, they're all married." He looks at me as if I'm some nieve little girl and says "What does that have to do with anything?" I say that wedding band for starters means they're taken and Most importantly I don't date MM. I took offense to the comment but at the same time it got me thinking; Could the wedding ring be just jewlery to men?
movinon05 Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 And this was my response to you from the other thread: Unless the guy you were speaking with has some specific knowledge about how these other guys feel, then I think its all based on what 'HE' feels. And he's projecting "his" feelings onto other men as well. Its makes it very difficult to weed out what the truth really is.
Chump64 Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Well to men who have the ability and desire to step outside their marriage, it doesn't mean much (IMO). I asked my husband to remove his ring. When and if we reconcile completely, we'll get him a new one. My question is, why did that man assume the other man "wanted" you just because he was friendly and chatted with you? That's a piggish assumption. It bugs me that men jump to conclusions like that. If two men were friendly, would it be assumed that they "wanted" each other?
movinon05 Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 My question is, why did that man assume the other man "wanted" you just because he was friendly and chatted with you? That's a piggish assumption. It bugs me that men jump to conclusions like that. If two men were friendly, would it be assumed that they "wanted" each other? Good point. But its obviously a different ball game between the sexes.
Art_Critic Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 My question is, why did that man assume the other man "wanted" you just because he was friendly and chatted with you? My guess would be body language and the tone of his conversation.. some people pick up on it and some don't
norajane Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 A wedding ring doesn't mean you never become attracted to anyone else. We will meet people we are attracted to all our lives; some of them might even be attracted to us as well. The wedding ring should mean that you don't act on the attraction.
babydoll_mimi Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 I'm not a man, so maybe my opinion is diff, and even if I were, all men are NOT the same, but in my experience... marriage means a lot less to people now than it did 50 yrs ago...that's for men and women. But men seem to more prone to straying. Also, I'm a young college age female, and I have found that (even w/o flirting w/ men), married men often hit on my friendsd and I. I'm talking 22 yr old married men, 32, and even 50 y/o married men... I guess that experience has caused me to have less faith in marriage, and maybe deep down that's why I'm ok w/ the A...because I don't have to worry about the commitment and worry of marriage. I know it would break my heart to be married to someone who cheats...
Author alfagrl Posted June 17, 2006 Author Posted June 17, 2006 Well to men who have the ability and desire to step outside their marriage, it doesn't mean much (IMO). I asked my husband to remove his ring. When and if we reconcile completely, we'll get him a new one. My question is, why did that man assume the other man "wanted" you just because he was friendly and chatted with you? That's a piggish assumption. It bugs me that men jump to conclusions like that. If two men were friendly, would it be assumed that they "wanted" each other? but apparently I've been a topic of discussion amongst them before. which is fine, I would expect my H/BF to look too...I know a wedding ring isn't blinders, but to suggest that if the opportunity presented itself he and a lot of MM would jump on it and I am nieve to think otherwise.
Chump64 Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Of course you are naive to think otherwise. There are tons of married men who cheat all the time. What was the question again?
RealityCheck Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Of course you are naive to think otherwise. There are tons of married men who cheat all the time. What was the question again? Boy! I'll say... Cheating spouses seem to be an epidemic these days. Just from the people I know personally more than half are having affairs. Unbelievable!
Author alfagrl Posted June 18, 2006 Author Posted June 18, 2006 I guess I would expect my husband to honor his marriage, his wife, and have respect for hisr family but geeezz I guess I am nieve.
pricillia Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Well to men who have the ability and desire to step outside their marriage, it doesn't mean much (IMO). I asked my husband to remove his ring. When and if we reconcile completely, we'll get him a new one. My question is, why did that man assume the other man "wanted" you just because he was friendly and chatted with you? That's a piggish assumption. It bugs me that men jump to conclusions like that. If two men were friendly, would it be assumed that they "wanted" each other? he made that comment because he wants her and he is jealous!
stillhere Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 I agree, marriage doesn't seem to mean as much as it once did. I could easily name off 15 guys at work (who are all married) that i could sleep with if i wanted to. I would never of course, i have my hands full with only one, but that's my point. I constantly get hit on by MM. Most of them wouldn't know what to do if i actually did say yes (which would never happen). IMHO, i think that ring is there just to make their W's happy and secure. It really means nothing to half of them, just a piece of jewelry that they are obligated to wear.
Chump64 Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Alfa, you are also naive if you think it's only men cheating. Depending on the stats you believe, 50-60 percent of men cheat and 40-some percent of women, and the numbers are growing for women. My husband's OW is married and has been for 25 years. I don't believe men wear a ring to keep their wives happy and secure. I think they start to wear it because it actually means something. We were madly in love when we got married and that was a sign of our love. He started screwing around and I didn't know. If he took the ring off suddenly, don't you think I'd get suspicious? They wear it b/c they love their wives, initially. The keep it on so they don't open themselves to suspicion. I think some of you are also confusing flirting with actual cheating. Lots of men flirt with no intention to crawl into bed. Same for women. I think flirting is natrual and harmless, assuming it stays within certain boundaries. Like you said, Still, a lot of those men wouldn't know what to do if you actually tried to get them in the sack.
Author alfagrl Posted June 18, 2006 Author Posted June 18, 2006 I agree, marriage doesn't seem to mean as much as it once did. I could easily name off 15 guys at work (who are all married) that i could sleep with if i wanted to. I would never of course, i have my hands full with only one, but that's my point. I constantly get hit on by MM. Most of them wouldn't know what to do if i actually did say yes (which would never happen). IMHO, i think that ring is there just to make their W's happy and secure. It really means nothing to half of them, just a piece of jewelry that they are obligated to wear. You & most of the posters understand where I'm coming from. for those who aren't getting my point it is; if see a ring on your finger, That means something to me ,(back off), why doensn't it mean something to the man. I was hoping men would weigh in...but its ok if they ladies want to take a stab . I think my question got lost in my personal story. Sorry if I confused anyone. chump64, I posed the question that way because I am heterosexual and its men hitting on me, not women. I am clearly aware women cheat. If I were a lasbian or a man I would reverse the gender role in my question. Come to think of it ...there was this one time I was hit on by a gay man...but I think that was a case of him wanting to BE me not wanting to EFF me. :laugh:
Curmudgeon Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Then there's the other half of us who take it to be a sign of our love, devotion and monogamy towards our wives. We do still exist, you know!
stillhere Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Still, you must be really hot. :lmao:LMFAO:lmao: I go by what i'm told, not what i see in the mirror!! I don't agree, but i take what compliments come my way! Thanks girly! You made my day! And for many, that ring does mean love and commitment, and devotion to their W. And in the majority of M's, i believe that the man married his W because he truely did love her, but as time went on, something was lost. It's sad, and unfair, but it obviously happens more often than we would like to think.
RealityCheck Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 :lmao:LMFAO:lmao: I go by what i'm told, not what i see in the mirror!! I don't agree, but i take what compliments come my way! Thanks girly! You made my day! And for many, that ring does mean love and commitment, and devotion to their W. And in the majority of M's, i believe that the man married his W because he truely did love her, but as time went on, something was lost. It's sad, and unfair, but it obviously happens more often than we would like to think. Yes!! If two people do not grow together they do grow apart! I don't believe in giving up easily in a marriage, but I can say.... When its over, its over!!! I sure as hell am not going to waste precious years on something that is going no where! I lived and breathed that HeLL!
stillhere Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Some spouses do not understand or take into consideration that they are truely not giving their spouse the support that they need. I'm not talking about everyone's R here, I'll refer to my MM's marriage. Him and his W are very close. But she was not giving it up in the bedroom. He told her this bothered him, and he wanted it more often. Once every 2 months wasn't enough. (considering we are up to 4 times a week, usually) If she wasn't in the mood, i don't blame her, cuz i was that way once, but it hurt him, and it deprived him. Not that i'm saying this is a good excuse, this seems to be the way most A's start, the man is looking for sex. I, at first, gave him what he was not getting at home. She is old fashioned, not willing to try new things. I'm crazy and wild and uninhibited........that was appealing to him cuz that was something she definetly wasn't. That drew him closer to me. Then we fell in love. This A got way out of control, and now it's hard to stop. I'm not blaming her in any way, it is not her fault that he strayed, he saw something he wanted and went for it.
movinon05 Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Well I know my exMM WAS getting it in the bedroom. Perhaps not everything he was looking for as she is not very adventurous (from what he said). It wasn't all about the sex with us. We enjoyed every minute we were together even if we weren't having sex. (Of course I always have to add the caveat that there were bad issues regarding our relationship). That said, it still wasn't all about the sex. I know he loves/loved me. It just wasn't enough as far as I'm concerned, even though he would say otherwise.
RealityCheck Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Well I know my exMM WAS getting it in the bedroom. Perhaps not everything he was looking for as she is not very adventurous (from what he said). It wasn't all about the sex with us. We enjoyed every minute we were together even if we weren't having sex. (Of course I always have to add the caveat that there were bad issues regarding our relationship). That said, it still wasn't all about the sex. I know he loves/loved me. It just wasn't enough as far as I'm concerned, even though he would say otherwise. I agree MO... It isn't only about the sex, though I will say "through the roof"....lol We do connect on many levels. MANY!
movinon05 Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Well yeah, I must say "it" was through the roof! But the emotional connection was through the roof as well. Why else would I let it continue for 7 years and do what I did? That's what most people don't understand. And you can't even explain it, no matter how hard you try! That's why I don't bother trying.
Chump64 Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Just a bit of "betrayed wife" perspective, if that's ok. I really am trying to be respectful here. I would like to comment on some of the "why they cheat" theories that tend to be applied across the board, and some of the other assumptions made here. And for many, that ring does mean love and commitment, and devotion to their W. And in the majority of M's, i believe that the man married his W because he truely did love her, but as time went on, something was lost. It's sad, and unfair, but it obviously happens more often than we would like to think. I believe that many cheating men still DO love their wives. And why not love two people if you can get away with it? If this weren't the case, and the blame goes solely to the kids (as I see posted here all the time), then why wouldn't men just divorce and go off to their "true love" (the affair partner)? It's simply not true that scorned wives can keep their kids from their husbands. Don't fall for that one. I challenge anyone to dig up a court case that shows a cheating man or woman lost custody because of marital infidelity. If a woman is withholding contact of her kids because her husband cheated, he simply needs to contact the police, because that is.not.legal. If your MM is giving you that song and dance, it's because he doesn't want to lose money (read: money is more important than you, the OW). If for some reason he loses custody completely, be very afraid. It is VERY hard for a person to lose 100 percent of their custodial rights. They almost have to be a serial killer. Yeah, something was "lost" in the marriage but that does not mean a marriage is without love or has no value / no hope. My husband had a very long term, very damaging affair, and I'm not sure we can work it out. But I am sure that he never stopped loving me, and he still does. I don't know whether it will be enough. He also wore a wedding ring, as did his OW, and neither of them intended to ever leave their spouses. Don't assume a cheating man is in a crap marriage and truly only loves the affair partner, even if that's what he tells you. I see women here complaining constantly about their MM lying, but then some posters pick and choose what they want to believe to make their point -- and they tend to generalize it to apply to all marriages where one partner has gone astray. In my husband's case, he was very sad that I asked him to remove the ring. (Tough crap, I say.) He said it "symbolized us." I said there is no more "us," at least not as we knew it. If we can start over and create a new and healthier "us," there will be a new ring. My husband and I were also quite sexually active, considering our lifestyles and how busy we were. I just didn't know he needed it every damn day, nor did he tell me that. How can I fix something I don't know is broken? Communication is such a huge issue for so many people. And when they fail to communicate about sex, the real problem is not sex -- it's communication. So just beware of these cheating MM who say, "My wife didn't put out." Unless he communicated with her and she refused to put out, the real problem is communication. Even then, she may have other valid reasons for not putting out. Maybe the guy is a basic SOB for a lot of other reasons. And don't be fooled. It is NOT just about sex, ever. It is about ego stroking, needing validation (and that may well be achieved through sex), low self esteem, and so many more factors. It's never just about getting laid. Getting laid is a byproduct of needing someone to tell you how great you are, laughing at your jokes, making you feel good about yourself, etc. And maybe the betrayed wives are guilty of not doing those things. But you know what? It's a freakin' two-way street. Too many men need a woman to keep them feeling good about themselves, yet they don't reciprocate that with their wives. Time to grow the eff up, I say. My husband says I didn't "need" him enough, whereas the OW would get mad at him for not calling in the morning to say hello, or would be super disappointed if they couldn't get together for a nooner. Her neediness (though pathetic, IMO) turned him on, made him feel needed and manly. I guess the fact that I needed him as a home partner, lover, co-parent and friend was not enough. I think this says more about him and his ego than it does about me, and it surely is not such a simple issue that you can base it all on sex. Not that i'm saying this is a good excuse, this seems to be the way most A's start, the man is looking for sex. Again, that's not always the case unless you are looking for a 1-night-stand or hooking up with a prostitue. Most affairs start out with an emotional connection. A lingering look, a friendly chat, someone laughing at his jokes, complimenting his clothes. He starts to think, "Hmmm, she is more kind and friendly to me than my wife," and he starts to 'connect' with her. He loses connection with his wife even more b/c he is distracted by this new connection. He gets short tempered and indifferent with his wife at home. Someone ELSE is paying attention to him, making him feel good. A few days or weeks (or whatever) go on and he starts to think about screwing this other woman who is making him feel good. This is an extremely common pattern. It's not as simple as "not getting laid enough or good enough," though it is VERY common for men to justify affairs this way. Don't fall for it. But of course, there are marriages that were never really very good anyway, and should end. It bothers me that many wayward people hre insist this is universally true for their OW. I can see how facing the other possibility -- that he loves his wife and really doesn't want to leave / enjoys the best of both worlds -- is hard to handle, though. Believe me, I know about those "hard to handle" things that rattle around in your brain. Yes!! If two people do not grow together they do grow apart! I totally agree. But a man who is loving the attention he's getting from a flirty chick at work, and who is lacking the boundaries needed to maintain a healthy marriage, is not gonig to go home and try to "grow together" with his wife. Not when someone at work is showing interest and he's getting off on that "high." That's like an addiction -- hard to control. And addicts will tell you whatever you need to hear so they can get high again and again and again. I would like some of you to entertain the thought that your MM does have, or did have, a good marriage, but strayed anyway. People don't always go out LOOKING for affairs. People in decent marriages -- but again, who lack boundaries -- end up in affairs. Both my husband and his OW discussed the fact that they loved their spouses, and both thought they (basically) had good marriages. Often married people who partake in affairs cry about "not getting enough" at home (whether it's sex, attention, whatever). That's their big excuse. A majority of those people are also not giving enough at home, and don't see that until it's too late and there is damage all around them.
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