JUST the facts...

[Mz. Pixie]

Milf- listen to J- he's been almost where you are. We all told him the same kind of stuff we're telling you.

 

You need to make him earn your trust. He will be upfront about the affair- he will tell you the truth- or he will have to pack. Tell him he has 24 hours.

 

He doesn't know whether you have proof or not. But I can tell you, no man does what he's done to you and his children unless he's highly involved in an affair. It changes you- it's an addiction. He point blank asked if he could have a girlfriend! Are you freaking kidding me?? You have a doubt about whether or not they've had sex?????

 

And even if they haven't- he's had an emotional affair- he invested time with this woman he could have spent with his wife and children!!!

 

Also, you need to have yourself checked for STD's. You need to take back control of this situation. You almost had it, but you let it slip right through your hands because he said a few sweet words.

 

I'm not trying to bash you, I'm just telling you he's having an affair. Whether they have had sex or not is pointless.

[Chump64]

He has to go in complete "no contact" mode with her. You can't give him any hope by telling him that "maybe" they can be friends down the road. They can't. Do they work together? If so, he needs to get a new job ASAP. Don't 'give' on any of that. Be a super hard-ass with him, like jmargel said. Don't give an inch on anything. But contrary to jmargel, I say that you should keep snooping on him until you feel that you are fairly sure they aren't in contact any more. I haven't snooped on my husband since the day I busted his chops, mainly b/c he a) was completely devastated at the prospect of losing what he had with me, was remorseful, and is obviously suffering greatly (his own fault); and b) has done everything I've asked and is in therapy twice a week. Some day I will probably check up on him. I don't rule it out. But it's no way to live permanently.

[joeyr812]

Erica....I might have missed this in the detail, but...please tell me you've seen a lawyer, and are going to individual councelling. Spy all you want...you can't control him, you can only control you and how you react. And...understandably, you are a mess. You need to get a hold of you before you can deal w/him.

[jmargel]

Joey is exactly right. You can't control him, only yourself. You need to start taking care of yourself and if he wants to be a part of this marriage he will do whatever it takes to accomplish that.

 

You don't cure an alcoholic by keeping him away from booze. You cure him by finding out what causes him to drink and to take the necessary steps to teach him how to overcome his own problems. This is the same you must do when you are with a cheater. Just like AA he also needs to continue to goto counseling.

[Milf629]

Maybe I am crazy.

 

Maybe.

 

But Maybe just maybe it didn't get physical. You can tell me to go back and look at my posts and I know how I felt and what I was thinking at those moments but it does not change the fact that at this present moment in time I have no more evidence that it did get physical then I do that it didn't.

 

I have waffled sooo much in this situation. I really have. Its over its not its over its not. I have told him how disrepected I feel, that I am tired of it, and all he says is let me make it right, let me come home, let me show you. This situation is f***ed up no doubt about that. My problem still remains to be that I did say vows, I do love him, I am willing to work out the kinks, we DO have two children together and a life from the last 10 years.

 

alot has happened between my last post and now. we had a really nice time father's day, actually treated each other like human beings. Had a good therapy session monday, and tonight we are going out on a "date".

 

He does work with this girl. but let me be clear, i would NEVER NEVER NEVER have him quit his job, he is paid very well and has been at this job as long as we have been together (longer actually) it is OUR bread and butter as well as that of my children. I would NEVER tell him to quit. She works in a different department, he has been reporting ALL contact between them. He is a manager and has responsibilities, he had to call her the other day to come to work (her manager was not there) but he called ME first, even though I never would have known because he would have called from work phones. In my opinion he finally GETS it. Gets why it has been such a problem, gets why I can't stand it, and gets why on soo many levels I have felt disrespected. He has cut off all other contact. but rest assured I am still monitoring EVERYTHING. Some of it he knows about some of it he does not.

 

when he does come back home, he will be sleeping in OUR bed. How would I explain to my 3 1/2 year old why daddy is sleeping on the couhc or the futon in the basement. I made him leave in the first place because I didn't want this to be confusing to her, I would not have him come back only to add more confusion into her life. BESIDES that lends a better eye on him by me.

 

although I agree that both of us should ALSO be in counseling seperately as well as together, our co-pay per visit is $45. at $45 per we can't even really afford the marriage therapy let alone, charges for us as individuals as well. I have sucky insurance and can't do anything about it till Dec. but we are basically at this point living LESS then paycheck to paycheck, we will have some relief come sept. but thats still 2 months away.

 

i will be the first to tell you that this has been beyond confusing. I hardly know if I am coming or going. but I just can't throw in the towel and call it a day for a maybe and in my eyes thats all it is right now. a maybe. I know what was setting me off, it was the cell phone everytime I saw her number pop up it sent my into this little obsessive tizzy. I told him as much. I told him it was making me crazy, making me not trust him, making me feel like WTF? THAT is now nipped in the bud until fruther notice, obviosuly the cell phone is still being checked.

 

all I can do right now, is keep my eyes open and try to get through this, and work on my marriage, and god willing I will come out a happier human being on the other side, as well as my husband having the same.

 

I have not seen a lawyer, but i have educated myself on divorces in CT.

 

call me crazy. call me a fool.

[Chump64]

I don’t think you are crazy or foolish. I am basically doing the same thing you are doing – trying to save my marriage. Only I haven’t been nearly as nice to my husband as you have. If I can make my husband sleep in the guest room, and my pre-teens don’t notice, I’m willing to get your 3 YO won’t notice. Anyway, that’s your call.

 

 

I think it can be a very brave move to try to save your marriage, if both parties are willing and the offending partner is 100 percent truthful. I can't stress that latter point enough. I don’t think it’s brave to put blinders on and let the truth slip by b/c you want to save your marriage. You deserve 100 percent truth from him, and that includes knowing about his sexual past with this woman. I would bet my mortgage that your husband and this woman had sex. Can you live with not knowing whether that’s true or not? Or will it drive you crazy and keep a festering wound in your marriage? You should discuss this with your counselor. You should demand to know every single detail of their relationship. It might hurt like hell (no wait, it WILL hurt like hell) but the fact is, those two had a relationship and you were on the outside. Now it’s time to let you in on all the secrets. Clean out the wound and start fresh, or let it fester and end up ruining your marriage, anyway, in the long run. You decide. That won't be a pleasant thing for your kids to observe and live though, either.

 

Your husband did disrespect you, but it’s deeper than that. There is something wrong with a grown man who tells his wife that he needs a girlfriend in order to be a better husband, that he needs his freedom and that he doesn’t want to be married. Those sentiments are, in my opinion, bigger problems than his affair with this woman. Those are signs that he is incredibly immature and possibly NOT able to maintain a good marriage and to be a responsible father. I hope that you will flesh all of this out with your counselor.

 

About the job -- establishing 'no contact' with this woman is sooo incredibly important, IMO. Is his job so specialized that he can't find another one? What does he do for a living? At the very least, he should be able to ask someone else to deal with her on his behalf. If nothing else, he needs to confide to a coworker about the situation and ask for help in that context. Yeah, he will say that that's uncomfortable and that it might make people think badly of him. Tough $hit, I say. Right now, YOU are his top priority. YOU are the only one he needs to please. YOU are the one he needs to worry about, when it comes to what people are thinking about him.

 

Good luck MILF!

[sylviaguardian]

Milf,

 

You are amazing. I wish I had had the sense to grab my situation by the balls like that, instead of waiting 8 freaking months to get the truth out of him. I wish you well Honey. At the very least you have shown him that you are not to be messed with. Keep it up. It will be a long and bumpy ride.

 

Sylvia

[Milf629]

so before our "date" last night I inquired if he felt anymore like he was coming home. he said "we'll talk tonight" that of course did not sound good to me, so I of course was eager to hear what he had to say.

 

ack ack ack.

 

the date would have been nice, but my mood and our conversing was less then such, and therefore I could not wait to NOT be on a date and just be home. We went out for a quick bite to eat before the movie and then went to see "the break up" of all movies (what a fantastic ides that was...NOT). anywho i basically spent the night holding back tears. it was no fun.

 

I went home just as confused. he just keeps saying hes not ready. all the whil I am not functioning, I mean I take care of the kids and the dog, but thats basically it. I really feel like I cannot go forward with him out of the house. He is away today and tomorrow in another store (BTW he works at Macy's and they have merged with Filene's/lord and taylor, so these trips are him making the old department into the new ones, organizing all the merchandise etc. getting it ready to be a "macy's", its opening doors for him) so I called him very late last night, and said look, cannot do this anymore. I want you home. I cannot do this limbo crap any longer. On friday (when he is back in the area) you either come home with bells on, come home ready to be here, with a smile on your face, ready to work on this marriage and save it from the brink of Divorce OR you dont come home ever. I decided that was the choice I needed to make, the hard part of course is sticking to my guns. throwing it away full well knowing that its not necessarily the "right" thing to do but rather what I have to do to survive this. because I am not surviving right now. that is for sure. so of course hes not an ultimatum kind of guy. I knew this going in. but I was very clear, take a couple of days really think about it, really think about what you want, you can call it an ultimatum all you want, but what it is really doing is saving me from myself, it wasn't even about him at that point. and I told him as much. I said do not do not do not come in to this house with a puss on your face pouting because you have to be home now, because I will turn you right around and show you where the door is.

 

so all the while he is supposed to go to this party saturday night that him and his "friends" planned a long while ago. and he says well I will come home sunday, i said NO friday, not sunday .... FRIDAY. apparently he was going to stay over so he could have one last hurrah and drink himself into oblivion. he brought it up at dinner and didn't know if HER was going to be there. wanted to let me know that. didn't ask if it was okay, didn't check if it was alright that I was home with the kids yet AGAIN. said he would AVOID her if she was there. I said oooooohhhhhh no no no no no. I am definetly NOT okay with that. hes like oh well she might come with her husband or her family (apparently they are coming from MI) no no no no no. so not okay with that. this goes on and on and on, and then he starts in with the dictator comments, and how this was why we are here in the first place, it doesn't matter what he is doing its the fact that I am being like this about it. blah blah blah. I said look i am telling you no matter how innocent YOU think this is, its not. shes not. there is something not right here. he sincerely feels that she is not trying to sabotage anythiing, simply because she hasn't said anything to him about it. yadda yadda yadda. in the end I phrased my angst as a question, thats seems to get through to him better then demands. I am ASKING you not to go. I dont want you to go, you are intentionally excluding (he says before this past week he was going to ask me to go with him....yeah ok.) me, I dont like it, I dont trust her, I dont trust your friends either. finally I said FINE, take steve with you (guy he is living with, I trust that he would not LET anything happen). I dont even know where this is, I only know that its a lose lose situation for everyone. if he doesn't go, I'll have to hear about it, if he does I'll be the one home stewing about it, if I went, I would rip her f***ing head off right after I put my foot in her ass. lose lose lose. I said look do whatever the f*** you want, but get it out of your f***ing system because once you're here we will NOT be going backwards. do whatever the f*** you have to to make this never happen again. I am at a loss. lose lose lose. so now its up to him, to make the right decision for once.

 

so in betwixt all of this. my husband as you all know has a myspace account...so does this girl. so he changed his little headliner quote almost daily, sometimes they mean something sometimes they dont, movie quotes lots of stuff like that, so they bothed logged in last on 6/21....... so his headline says "It feels lonely on the dance floor somedays"....then this morning I check hers (and as of the last week she has been posting blogs, but they are private no one but her sees them, excpet you see the title) so I have been watching these, and some of them hav been titled very oddly to say the least "midnight confessions" was one from when I called her hubby, "goodnight" another one, but its this LAST one that got my goat "it was your choice who to dance with" ........so now i'm like, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. wonder if one has something to do with the other. so instead of stewing about it, I called my H, and said look can you see her blog entries (knowing full well he couldn't because I tried while logged in as him) and he said no, and I told him what I saw and said "seems odd right"? he agreed and was curious himself. he asked if I wanted him to call her and find out what it said, and I said yeah I do, so long as you agree to be 150% honest about what she tells you no matter what it is. so he tried to call but got no answer. she hasn't logged in yet today. but man o man if ever I wanted to hack into anything its this! oh and HER headliner says "holding hands meant so much baby....JCM" who the f*** is JCM? anyone recognize that. needless to say that girl is on my radar for the long term.

 

aggravation aggravation aggravation.

 

lord (i am not even really religious) please keep me from strangling the both of them today....amen

[Chump64]

First of all, you want NC between them. YOu don't tell him he can't see her at a party, then turn around and have him call her so you can find out what she's posting on her blog. That's inappropriate behavior. BOTH of you need to knock off the crap. BOTH of you need to stop reading her blog, stop calling her, stop caring about her. This problem is between you two. Too effin' bad if he's not an ultimatum kind of guy. Tell him that YOU ARE and utimatum person. Tell him this: "Here is my ultimatum to myself. In 24 hours, if I don't have a clear, sincere, honest and complete commitment to my marriage from you, which includes no more contact -- ever -- with your ho', I am filing for legal separation." He is farting around because you are letting him.

 

And frankly, if he is married to you, and you are asking him to stop seeing another woman who feels like a threat to you, and he turns around and calls you a "dictator," I'm not really sure he's in love with you. He sounds like a giant dick who I think I'd have dumped by now.

 

Just the other day he was telling you he wanted to save the marriage and that he was sorry. Now he is telling you he is going to a party Sat. night and that his ho' might be there. Which is it? He needs to $hit or get off the pot. And so do you. Put your foot down for real. Seriously, Milf, what is the freaking point fo saving a one-sided marriage!?

 

I think I am angrier about your butthole husband than you are.

[Iwanttohope]

First of all, you want NC between them. YOu don't tell him he can't see her at a party, then turn around and have him call her so you can find out what she's posting on her blog. That's inappropriate behavior. BOTH of you need to knock off the crap. BOTH of you need to stop reading her blog, stop calling her, stop caring about her. This problem is between you two. Too effin' bad if he's not an ultimatum kind of guy. Tell him that YOU ARE and utimatum person. Tell him this: "Here is my ultimatum to myself. In 24 hours, if I don't have a clear, sincere, honest and complete commitment to my marriage from you, which includes no more contact -- ever -- with your ho', I am filing for legal separation." He is farting around because you are letting him.

 

And frankly, if he is married to you, and you are asking him to stop seeing another woman who feels like a threat to you, and he turns around and calls you a "dictator," I'm not really sure he's in love with you. He sounds like a giant dick who I think I'd have dumped by now.

 

Just the other day he was telling you he wanted to save the marriage and that he was sorry. Now he is telling you he is going to a party Sat. night and that his ho' might be there. Which is it? He needs to $hit or get off the pot. And so do you. Put your foot down for real. Seriously, Milf, what is the freaking point fo saving a one-sided marriage!?

 

I think I am angrier about your butthole husband than you are.

 

Finally Chump!!! I wondered how long it would take you to get pissed! Ditto on everything you said. MILF, play hardball--he'll be happy to put the focus on HER as long as you let him because its taking the focus off where the problem is--between the two of you.

[whichwayisup]

His actions are still different than his words. Until he can live up to the what he says, things aren't going to change. Hate to say it, but I completely agree with Chump. Time for him to s*** or get off the pot. If he needs help making that choice, then he should go seek therapy to sort it out, instead of leaving stupid immature messages to his OW and reading hers to him.

 

He's making a fool of you, and that pisses ME off for you!

[Chump64]

LMAO, Iwant!

 

Well, I had some hope that she was playing hardball, but now I'm just frustrated.

[Mz. Pixie]

Finally Chump!!! I wondered how long it would take you to get pissed! Ditto on everything you said. MILF, play hardball--he'll be happy to put the focus on HER as long as you let him because its taking the focus off where the problem is--between the two of you.

 

Bravo Chump.

 

He's saying he's not READY because he has no intentions of ending it. He's having his cake and eating it too- and he plans to string that out as long as he can!

 

What an ass.....

[jmargel]

Milf you are not taking my advice. The only way to win at this game is to not play it. He hasn't changed and he refuses to. She is 'not out of his system' and you can't force her to be out of it. I know it hurts and you don't deserve this but maybe you finally need to realize that his behavior is never going to end. You will always be playing detective as long as you are married to him. How can you build a loving & trusting relationship based on that? You can't. You will just feel jaded in the end and feel bitter that you wasted all these years trying to fix him.

 

This relationship between him & this ow won't last. However once he's done with her he'll go onto the next. In the mean time he'll continue to disrespect you & your children on the way he is treating all of you.

 

You are a beautiful woman who has a heart of gold. Start moving on with your life and you will find someone where you dont' have to worry what's coming next. The emotional stress that you are under is probably like running a marathon every day. Trust me, it's not worth it. You will get through this without him. Don't base your own self-worth on his immaturity. You deserve to be loved the right way.

 

He has not taken any responsibility for his actions and is still blaming them on you. Let him play his little games with this OW, but hold your head up and know that you are too good for that. Do this for yourself and your children.

[Milf629]

I have been listening to sooooo much solicited advice. I Need to take a step back.

 

HER aside, I at this point don't know what I want. I had a long talk the other night with my childhood best friend. And she said to me, you should get angry, you should be angry, and I sort of realized, its like its up and left me. The will and the strength to GET ANGRY has left me. I feel like I have nothing left. Literally. I am undoubtedly depressed. Trapped in my own mind. Part of me says its situational and why should I have to take something for it, what will it in the end do anyways. I am sure many will disagree, but I dont think I should HAVE to take meds to get through this. Why should I do ONE MORE THING, to get through this. That I feel is against what I really want. Of course like I said I dont know what I "really" want. I really don't. I think I need to step back, do some soul searching and figure it out. At this point its not even about HER. Its about us. Its about HIM. Its about how his friends and going to this stupid f***ing party with a bunch of his "friends" that are younger and immature is MORE important then coming home to me, focusing on us, and actually putting some f***ing true hard effort into this.

 

And and and at the same time, I think what if things would be better on the other side of this, am I not giving it long enough to work out? Am I jumping the gun? He is a selfish person always has been, but in my eyes it was never towards me. Now obviously it is. Because his wants and needs are far far far above my wants and needs.

 

If I had to place on a scale from 1 to 10 right now where I am in this....1 being I want to stick it out and make this work and 10 being I want to run for the hills, I am like a 7.

 

I can hear as much advice I as I want, but in the end I have to figure it out all by myself. Figure out what I feel is the best approach, figure out if I can trust him, figure out if I can stick this out, figure out if I want to stick this out. all the best intentioned advice in the world can't and won't "fix" this for me. Or give me the magical "thing" that would actually work.

 

In the best of circumstances, he would come home tonight and say I dont want to go to the party, its more important to be here with you. But I know as well as do all of you that THAT is not going to happen. Can I live with it?

 

I keep waiting, waiting for him to leave neverland. Waiting for him to make the right choice just ONCE during all of this. Waiting for him to decide GEE I am 33 years old and its time to be responsible, realize if I dont I am losing my wife, realize that all this other bulls*** is not as important as that. It was once upon a time, but definetly is not now. And you know what I dont want to have to tell him! I dont want to have to tell him, what would make this head in the right direction right now, he has a brain, he's intelligent, he's 33, he ought to f***ing KNOW. Why do I have to point it out to him.

 

I just have to figure this out all on my own. not taking into consideration all the advice, discussions and everything else associated with this f***ing mess. I have to look inside and figure it out.

 

I'll be back in a couple of days, until then I will stay away, so I am forced to only think for myself.

[portableversion]

It's okay not to care about another woman f***ing your husband. Some women don't for various reasons. You are one of those women. Be cool with it and move on.

 

The 'agonizing' is just "i should be angry and hurt, but i'm not-am i crazy?"

 

You can say what you say but you are what you are.

[Mz. Pixie]

I'll be back in a couple of days, until then I will stay away, so I am forced to only think for myself.

 

I take this to mean she doesn't like what we're saying because we're telling it like it is.

[silktricks]

I keep waiting, waiting for him to leave neverland. Waiting for him to make the right choice just ONCE during all of this. Waiting for him to decide GEE I am 33 years old and its time to be responsible, realize if I dont I am losing my wife, realize that all this other bulls*** is not as important as that. It was once upon a time, but definetly is not now. And you know what I dont want to have to tell him! I dont want to have to tell him, what would make this head in the right direction right now, he has a brain, he's intelligent, he's 33, he ought to f***ing KNOW. Why do I have to point it out to him.

I hate to tell you this, but 33 is pretty young, and for quite a few people an extremely irresponsible time of life. People who have been married for quite awhile often look around and go, "Is this all there is? I'm supposed to have it all together, and I don't." A lot of times, they fill in the gaps in their lives with other things that keep them from being introspective. It can be expensive toys, it can be little flings.

 

By the way, you don't sound crazy at all. You sound depressed, but you have good reason to be depressed. Getting away from all of us telling you what to do is probably a good thing. Hopefully you'll make the decisions that work for YOU.

 

Best.

[Guest]

MIlf,

 

Many people here will disagree...but I am not a big fan of meds unless you truly have long-standing clinical depression. As you say, you are undoubtedly depressed and you are depressed because you are in a truly s***ty situation and you feel powerless. Honey, I know this is so hard but realise that you are not powerless. You have kids - you know the score is. You set the ground rules and you STICK to them. Each time you bend them, they realise that you don't mean what you say and do what they want, causing you untold aggravation and frustration. Give him the deal and don't waiver.

 

Come on girl! You are a STRONG woman. Stand up for yourself.

[Chump64]

It's okay not to care about another woman f***ing your husband. Some women don't for various reasons. You are one of those women. Be cool with it and move on.

 

The 'agonizing' is just "i should be angry and hurt, but i'm not-am i crazy?"

 

You can say what you say but you are what you are.

 

 

 

 

Are you for real, Portable? She clearly IS agonizing over this, and she will continue to agonize over it until she grows some balls and gives him an ultimatum that she will uphold. If she continues to put up with his crap it will drive her over the edge.

[Milf629]

Just to address a few things.......

 

I left for a few days, because honestly I can listen and ask for all the advice I want, but I need to make decisions for myself. I need to do what I feel is right. I need to make decisions that I am okay with. All the well-meaning advice in the world is not going to change that.

 

Mz. Pixie: your nastiness is noted. You aren't in my situation. You aren't living my life. My circumstances can be as similar to a million people, THAT doesn't make my situation the same, nor does it mean I should do what other people have done simply because certain aspects are similar. If that's the attitude you will have about MY situation then please do us both a favor and back off.

 

I had a good long think about alot of things. I did realize, that for as helpful as this website and everyone on it has been, it has also been somewhat detrimental too. ALOT of people on here have been betrayed, that pretty much means everyone is guilty. There are and were alot of things about this situation with this other girl that I did not like. Still don't. But for me, my relationship with my husband has never been even close to this before, so it was out of the ordinary, but he has had plenty of relationships with other women. Its common when a marriage is "on the rocks" a.) for people to search out other people to talk to b.) for the "crazy" spouse to start assuming the worse. I really feel thats what I did. The fact that I have nothing that says these two took it too far (and have looked extensively) only pushes that point further in my head. I don't need anyone here to be "behind" my decision to accept that it did not get physical between them. Nor do I need anyone to stroke my thoughts on the subject. I have simply made the decision to believe what he tells me is true. thats not to say I am going to put a blind fold on, its simply to say that I am choosing to believe him, and choosing to move forward in my marriage.

 

I have been reading some books, I have always been a big fan of "the Dance of Anger" great great book. NOW I am reading the "the Dance of connection" which deals almost exclusively with situations like this and how to talk to people, how to talk in the "I' format. i.e. non-blaming. Its not just my marriage that has problems. right now i am not speaking to my Mother, Oldest Sister or Sister in law. SO I am forced to ask why and figure it out. Life shouldn't be this way. Do not misunderstand me, I do not feel i am solely responsible for the decay of these relationships, but I am a non-sugar coated kind of person and I think maybe I need to curtail that a bit, if I ever expect to have these relationships back. For now however I will deal with the husband and tend to those other relationships later on.

 

So he was home friday hung out for a while, we did alot of talking. He really does not respond to ultimatums. never has. I should have known this and not gone down that road. part of his problems within our marriage is in my opinion he doesn't know how to argue with me, but from his prospective he sees me as being a bully, when I want something he doesn't, or vice versa. SO the ultimatum was more of that. he said he would come home, but that he feels that he has been given no choice and that the only reason he would be there is to not lose me, and I dont want that. I want him to want to be home. I dont want him there simply because I said so. so he went back to his friends friday night. saturday I did not see him, he went to his party, she was there. I feel ok about it. Sunday he spent that day, made dinner, had a nice evening it ended early, we were both tired.

 

I do have a plan. partly because of somethings the book said. its funny because there is an example in there, of a husband and wife, and the wife up and leaves the house and only then does the husband realize what he could be losing becomes desparate and "crazy" assumed she is cheating, etc. etc. it is not until he backs off (not distances but backs off) that she is able to start to work on things with him. I think my "craziness" has kind of kept him away. so I am going to "back off" we still have things planned (date night on wed.) but other then that, i am going to try and enjoy my time with him rather then have be all about "talking" and constantly bringing up this s*** between us. I have resolved myself that I will not ask when he is coming home, i truly want it to happen all on its own and for him to make that decision so I think for that to really happen "all on its own" I have no choice but to let it lie.

 

In the meantime I feel loads better, and have for several days. its like a weight has been lifted and I can finally relax a little and let things happen. be positive again (I am normally a very optomistic person). I have a very busy week, lots of appts. and then I am taking off with the girls (friday) to go see a friend (who rents a cottage for two weeks in cape cod) we'll be there till Tuesday. PLUS its my birhtday Thursday (his is on friday), so we will celebrate Wed. I will go out with the girls on Thurs. should be a good week. We have another therapy appt. on wed. too.

[jmargel]

I don't want to start an arguement with you, since my main concern is you. May I ask what you are going to do when he asks that he's going to another party that she's gonna attend? You are already giving in way too much (imo).

 

Remember the reason why things are at today is because you played detective. He didn't come to you. As for this party, he didn't even invite you. Ever think that since he knows you don't have proof that he might have had a sexual encounter with her that's the reason why he hasn't come forth?

 

Try this.. Play a bluff. Today just say 'I know the truth now. I want you to tell me it ALL or I am gone'. Play hardball. You have nothing to lose by slamming your fist down. You might get more information from him then you have now. If he asks on what you know just tell him you know about it all and you want him to talk to you about it.

 

Trust is earned and IMO you are giving him way too much of it too fast. You are afraid of losing him in the end and you are giving up way too much of your power here.

 

It's great that you are reading books and trying to work this out, but what is he doing? I mean honestly even before all of this look at the things he's done to you & the kids. I posted that earlier on this thread. There's not much more we can tell you but we all know here that you are going to be on a long roller coaster ride. Days that are good & days that you wanna quit. That decision is upto you. In the end you need to do what is best for YOU and your children.

[The slayer]

I've read this whole thread and I have to say that two things here really strike me.

 

• Firstly that Milf is clearly very keen to try and save her marriage
  
• Secondly everyone is very keen to offer Milf advice

The problem is none of the people offerring advice really know "the facts" despite the title of the thread, just what Milf has chosen to or needed to disclose at the time.

 

Milf I think your attitude to this board is spot on, noone should ever make decisions based purely on what someone advises them to do, especially when that someone could be anyone!

 

However if all that advice causes you to then sit down and really think about things for yourself, than that is an excellent way to use this forum.

 

Posters I think what we should all be doing is support Milf to make her own choices, whatever we think and just carry on listening and be there if she needs support.

 

I think this is what she is looking for here.

 

If she really wants to save her marriage then surely deciding to believe her husband at this point is a really, really good idea. For two reasons:

 

• She has unearthed no real "proof" not do, despite some serious and professional spying tactics
  
• She has to start somewhere and trying to bring back a little faith into the marriage sounds like a really constructive place to start.

[jmargel]

'The slayer' I agree with your post, partly. The reason why I say that from my own personal experience. It took a MC and 2 psychologists to find out what works with my wife. It's not so much the cheating on here right now but the immaturity that her husband shows just like my wife does.

 

What I found worked was to set boundaries and make them clear to her. And if she starts acting like a child or show her immaturity you just plain out tell her 'Enough, I am not talking to you until you can start talking to me like a responsible adult'. Yes, I know it sounds weird but when you are dealing with someone who doesn't act their age you need to treat them like a child in some ways.

 

Our last psychologist said it best. When you are born, you are born with a free will. However the day you are brought home you are taught either directly or through experience on how to deal with situations & your environment. Like my wife's case she was subject to alot of emotional & verbal abuse, along with rape, etc.. Her reaction was to just hide in her room and not deal with the situation. So she never learned how to act at a mature level such as a person who had a 'normal' lifestyle (which I mean a loving, caring family who allowed their child to make decisions).

 

So you have 3 stages:

 

-->Parent

 

-->Adult

 

-->Child

 

Like her marriage mine is in the Parent/Child stage. It's awful and admittely these marriages don't last. It's not until this child can hit the adult stage that we can then take a step down so that we are both at the adult/adult.

 

Only then does true respect & trust come about.

 

What I am worried about with Milf (don't mean to talk about you in the 3rd person) is that he is already getting away with what he wants after you found out he's been cheating. And yes, it is cheating even if there was no physical contact. Emotionally he was with her. Along with his immaturity it's a dangerous mix in that I don't believe his behavior is going to stop. Bless her heart for trying like she is but it takes two to make this work.

 

Milf, it doesn't matter if wouldn't have gone to the party because you didn't want him to, it's the fact that he wouldn't have gone. He should have been mature enough to say 'You're right, how stupid can I be? I mean I've been doing this to you all along and its perfectly rational on why you wouldn't want me to go there. I would really rather spend my time with you anyways.'. But when she gave him the green light he jumped on it. That's where maturity & respect comes into play.

 

Milf, in the mean time you are going to feel like you are totally on edge, wondering what is going to happen next and how to face it. If you keep just using threats and backing down he is going to catch onto that very fast. Honestly if you don't respect yourself how can you expect him to respect you? I say that because you are tolerating his behavior which to him is a green light to continue what he is doing. Therapy is no good unless he truly wants to be there. Go ahead and ask him if he really wants to go. I bet his answer would be no. If he's just going there to say he's there then it won't do you two any good.

 

I know you love him and the last thing I want is you to become defensive. We are here to help you and only have your best interest at heart. It took me getting my wife out of the house before things started to change. I then set rules that she had to follow by. If she didn't then that was her choice, but then it would be my choice to end the marriage. Things are far from perfect but better than last year. Her immaturity still shines but at least I know how to deal with it. Though it's something that I will not deal with the rest of my life and have told her that. And if that time comes where I need to make the decision to end it, I will follow through. Just keep your head up.

[Milf629]

May I ask what you are going to do when he asks that he's going to another party that she's gonna attend?

 

Actually I discussed this very thing with him the other night. It was part of my concern as well. I said to him I feel like whenever you want to do something I dont want you to do, you will pull the "dictator" card. And his response was "i know I can't always do what I want to". What more can I do besides wait for that to happen and address it when it does? Tonight he said a friend is having a BBQ in July and asked me to go with him. It's not much but its a step.

 

Remember the reason why things are at today is because you played detective. He didn't come to you.

if I believe him..... he didn't think what he was doing was wrong because it was just a friend, who happened to be up late at night (as is he a night owl, can't sleep) too, her husband told me it is not out of the ordinary for her to talk to people in the middle of the night.

 

Try this.. Play a bluff. Today just say 'I know the truth now. I want you to tell me it ALL or I am gone'. Play hardball.

I have done this before, as have I said, it doesn't matter I can get past it if you did, just tell me the truth, I wont divorce you we can work through it, as have I attempted to anger him (which I succeeded in doing) to make him angry enough with hurtful comments, figuring if I did he would just say screw this and tell me. to which of course you know the answer...he did not tell me anything.

 

Trust is earned and IMO you are giving him way too much of it too fast. You are afraid of losing him in the end and you are giving up way too much of your power here.

you are right. I am still checking everything (not nearly as frequently) I am still keylogging him and checking that, he doesn't know about the keylogger, but does know I am checking his cell. he is calling me when any kind of contact "has" to occur between them at work. what more can I do, to protect myself and still "work" on my marriage in a constructive way? why does any of this give him power? because my heart is more open? albeit still not trusting? What am I opening myself up to, other then giving him some trust, and seeing what happens? afterall if something did happen, eventually he will go back to it right? and if I dont give him that opportunity then I will never know right? so all I am doing is giving him the chance to prove me wrong right?

 

It's great that you are reading books and trying to work this out, but what is he doing?

well hes going to therapy and actually getting something out of it. he is spending alot more time at the house, he is becoming a happier person (on the outset that was a huge thing, he was not happy, not with himself or our marriage, nothing) he is planning semi-regular dates with me which is something that I have expressed is important to me and to us, he is showing more affection again something I expressed, he is checking in with me and giving me details of things going on in his life. sure I dont post every little thing, mostly whats on my mind most at the time, not so fair to the reader, but doesn't mean its not happening.

 

Firstly that Milf is clearly very keen to try and save her marriage

Secondly everyone is very keen to offer Milf advice

I want to clarify that I DID ask for advice, I was looking for it. and yes I am very "keen" to save my marriage.

 

but the immaturity that her husband shows just like my wife does.

yeah not real sure where to go with that. I only see his immaturity in tidbits though. its only at certain times. I mean I think about someone being 33 and think, thats old enough to know better, but your right at times it is there. and you know i dont want to take that "kid at heart" away from him either, but there are times, I wish he responded, reacted more maturely (not that I can pinpoint any now), my husband had a terrible childhood, not as bad as your wifes from the sounds of it, but his mother is a wretched women. so when you look at his life its a freaking miracle he is who he is. and that he has a marriage still to be saved. there is alot to overcome. not giving excuses just praising what he has become depsite all the odds.

 

admittedly I have yet to find the best way to deal with him. Like he is NOT a reader, so letters and emails are a no no, I am a reader (duh). he doesn't respond to ultimatums, maybe I should make a list and start doing process of elimination.