Chump64 Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Ok -- so why is it obvious to all of us the he is screwing around, but not to you?
Bex_23 Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Might you be able to consider forgiving him if he has had had an affair? If it is only this once, maybe it would be possible to believe that it has happened for a reason and move straight to trying to work through the reasons? I dont think things are really black and white. If you really are committed to making your marriage work it would seem a terrible shame to me, to let it all go if he has had a physical affair, but be prepared to carry on if it was an emotional one. Especially, when it's possible (IF you will forgive me for saying) that your lack of trust and spying may actually encourage the progression of emotional to physical. Sounds to me like if you want to make it work you should take the lead and start right now Bex xx
norajane Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 March 26, 2006: husband sits me down for a talk and tells me he is unhappy, then proceeds to ask/tell me he wants to get a girlfriend so he can be a better H to me at home. Your husband wants a girlfriend so he could be better to you as a husband? He told you what he was planning, he found the girlfriend, now you know he has the girlfriend, and you are still wondering if he's having an A?
jmargel Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 I am reposting this because I don't think you read it, since my account was messed up: Hun.. even if he didn't sleep with her, he still cheated on you. Let me give you a list of what he's done. - Has lied to you on numerous occasions - Has disrespected you and your children - Has pushed you aside to spend time with this other woman - Has tried to convince the counselor it was not his fault - Has acted very immature and has not communicated with you - Has actually tried to make you think him having a gf would be the answer on how to treat you better - Has acted totally selfish not for the past 6 months but probably since the beginning of the marriage - What he says and what he does are not matching up. Words are cheap. I could tell you things to make your heart melt but unless I put actions behind it, that's all it is.. Words. - Has taken that bond between you & him and jeopardized it. - Has not shown any commitment to you. - He will do this again even if he breaks it off with this woman. It's not if but when. - He has not taken you or your children seriously. He acts like a spoiled, immature child. You are raising 3 children. It's time to devote your life to YOU & your children. What I believe you are going through is the 5 stages of grief. You are in the denial stage now which is the first stage. Please look this up. The thing is the 5 stages of grief usually happen when a loved one dies, but it happens during signs of a troubled marriage. It's even kinda worse since you see him & talk to him but yet the person you knew or thought you knew inside is dead. What you don't want happening is what my aunt went through. She was married 25 years had no clue anything was going on. He unexpectedly died in front of her (heart attack) she was beyond heart broken. Two weeks later she found a safe that she didn't know about. Finally got it open and what she saw crushed her. Pictures of him with another woman and divorce papers signed by him. He never told her about the divorce papers, never took it to the courthouse. I think he did it to convince the OW that he was leaving his wife. Now my aunt is without answer since he's dead and this OW lives in another state. You have so many years ahead of you, your life isn't over. Until you demand respect from your husband you won't get it. The only way to do that is to serve him divorce papers. Babe, you tried. This isn't something that is your fault. I wish there were more people in the world like you that have such a big heart. Unfortunetly some people like your husband take advantage of great women such as yourself. Don't base your self-worth on this marriage or him. On he can fix himself, you can't. And I believe that is not going to happen until he start individual counseling by himself that he arranges by himself. He has not hit bottom yet, however that's something you can't stop. In the mean time start making yourself & your children happy. With your latest post it's clear he has the upper hand. He knows how to pull your heart string and he is testing you on how far you will bend. Right now you are bending very far. By you tolerating this you are allowing him to continue the abuse. Something drastic has to happen for him to wake up, and that's by you giving him divorce papers.
whichwayisup Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Great post reply JM. To sum it up, his priorities are not right. Why are you so far down his list? Why aren't you and the kids first?
Chump64 Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Oh, Milf. (hugs) Affair or no affair, he told you he wants his freedom, he wants a girlfriend and he isn't sure he wants to be married. Take this stuff to heart. Unless he grows up and does a 360-degree turnaround, you deserve much, much better.
silktricks Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 You sound so terribly unhappy. As everyone has said, you need to decide whether or not you want to/can stay in this relationship. You H is not regretful for the pain you are in. He is just putting it on you. He's also made it fairly clear that he DOESN'T want to fix things. If you would find out he's been cheating, what would that solve? It doesn't sound like that would change anything. It sounds like he wants the marriage over, but wants to be able to blame you for it. "I didn't do anything, but sure couldn't make her believe it. Gawd isn't she unreasonable, etc etc." Just decide what you want. If you want to stay with him if he isn't cheating, then I can understand your search, but it really doesn't sound like the marriage has two people in it right now. Just one, and that's you.
Sup Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 I think my biggest problem, is I can't justify a direction. can't justify staying, can'y justify leaving, the only thing I can jusitfy in my head, is being in "stuck" mode. and my obsession continues.... now I have OW's address (home) and husbands name, and phone number. She is by the schedule off for the next two days, so I can't call, and then I will have other things to do for sat. and sun. SO i possibly have to wait now till next week to "do something". I think it will give me what I need to talk to him, see what he knows, how is he feeling, since he is likely in my position, or maybe he will say they are just friends, maybe he wont know at all, and will have to investigate, I justify it with, if I have to miserable and suffer so should someone else, and maybe then with two of us working together we can figure this out. H just called. the obligatory call. the I will call you tomorrow, so I called so I can say I called kind of call. >>>>eye roll<<<<< Um, do you know what her husband looks like? Perhaps if you see him out and about you could tell him of what you suspect. Or after she goes back to work, call her husband, DON'T leave a message on the phne recorder, just hang up! If her hubby works just drop him a line a work.
Sup Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 I posted at the same time as some of you. I did read John. I did. Here's what I will do, I will get to her Husband, because like I said previously why should I be the only one miserable, he deserves to know too. maybe I am being presumptive but I dont care. i will lie to him, tell him I can get over a physical affair, and work through our marriage if he tells me the truth, (not right then and there, I want him to sit on it a bit, before he gives me his redundant "I have nothing to admit statement") but that is he lies it is over, if he tells the truth I will in time forgive him and our marriage will be wonderful and We will be better then ever blah blah blah whatever it takes to get him to tell me. but that lying WILL result in divorce. and no no no I will not stay if he did it, I can't I will be lying my way to the truth (how ironic). but I think I have to do that. now when to get to her husband, I want to do that first. Contact a Lawyer to see what YOUR rights are, get sole custody of your girls, child support, and if possible alimony. God, I hate that last word, but in your case, you gotta hit him HARD! Oh, and tell ow hubby to do the same too, he needs to know HIS rights too. Hey listen to Chump64, I read some of her posts, she can help ya. Someone said why post as Chump64, if you read her post/threads you would swear she's 007! Take THAT piece of advise, if you REALLY wanna know for sure, 007, I mean Chump64 will hook ya up!
Author Milf629 Posted June 18, 2006 Author Posted June 18, 2006 the s*** is goin to hit the fan........... oh yeah! so latest updates: Friday morning while I am at work, I "log in" to his myspace and there are 2 messages there from HER, so of course I read them, nothing in them really. ONE just said something about waking up, (did you get my call at 9:00) something like that, because she was responding to him on it (mind you he keeps all the boxes cleared i.e. deletes everything), the second one says "i'm breezy" weird right? WELL after he found out i logged in, he sends HER a message that says (I know this from the keylogger) "don't send me any messages right now" (yeah thats right he said "right now" sneaky f***er) so he called me at work, giving me s*** for logging in and saying i am invading his privacy (oh really a**h***) blah blah blah so I said to him look just because I have agreed at this point to work on this does not mean I am deaf dumb and blind, nor will I be behaving that way. I will be checking EVERYTHING so the sooner you give me ZERO reason to NOT trust you the sooner I wont be doing it. so we leave it as him deciding if he can deal with that or not (yes you read it folks, DECIDING). whatever a**h***. so then I went home saw the keylogger. I had to run out to the grocery store, sO while I was out I think to myself, f*** THIS s***, what am I waiting for to actually see them doing it? I am retarded! why have I let him convince ME that I am crazy???? so I call him, I say only this, I dont need you to make any decisions I am making it for you WE ARE DONE.........(click) he then proceeds to call me (I am not even kidding 20 times) I just kept hitting the hang up button so he couldn't leave me any messages. I drive around for a while (cause now the calls are coming from my house) I tell him to leave several times before hanging up on his sorry ass. so I brought NOTHING with me, thinking I was just making a quick run to the store, so eventually I have no choice I have to go home, he trys to talk to me, I said NOTHING to him, no yelling, no nothing, didn't even tell him about the keylogger (why give him a chance to lie again and give me some lame ass reason) so eventually he went back to work. I had a great night with a jewelry party! Yahoo. Today was emma's recital (some pics to follow....eventually) didn't speak to his sorry ass again all day. save for some polite conversation when absolutely necessary. Then on the way back from the recital to a restaurant with my MIL, and emma (asleep) in the car, I tell my MIL just about everything, with her honorary swear that it wont leave us. she is now finally seeing what i am seeing. she takes an opportunity to say something to jason at the table (while I was in the bathroom) apparently she pissed him off, I could tell from his face, then this f*** face, when we get back to our house, his parents are lingering, and you can tell jason is ready to go! I mention this to his parents after they inquire if we'll do some talking after they leave, I said OH NO he will be jetting out of here as quickly as possible, so then I think they lingered longer his father.......ooo if looks could kill, anyways he says to them on their way out to come back and talk to me, and he starts with the same s***, ericka talk to me, whats going on now, what did I do now blah blah blah i said we have nothing to talk about, you know where the door is! so he roars out of here AFTER seeing he wont be getting anywhere with me. so me and my lonesome self thinks GEE HER is working right now, I ought to call HER husband!!!!!!!!! f***er!!!!!!!!!!! got you now!!!!!!!!!! (sorry) so I call. OMG best decision I have made yet! someone else has had their suspicions TOO! but no proof and hes not from around here, only been living here since Nov. (gee she started working at macy's in dec, and apparently JASON has really been unhappy since JAN! really a**h***) they have been married 4 years, no children, and hes not a happy camper, thanked me for calling, hes been looking for something anything to give him some clues. I was sooooooo stoked. it was SOOOOOO well received! I dont know truly what he is thinking, but basically, she needs him financially. NOT the other way around as Jason depicted it. hes been very suspicious. and I was straight with him told him everything unconfirmed and otherwise. we talked for like an hour and a half. I guess hes not been happy about other things within their marriage but that the last two months he has really been on high alert. he did say she does talk to alot of people in the middle of the night and that that is "somewhat" normal for her. but shes been very evasive, and been out late, and home later than expected. I suppose I will think of more later. I am just so happy, for once in this whole f***ed up situation, I am happy. maybe thats makes me messed up, but I feel good! like I am really not crazy really not imagining it, and he was like, I mean aside from this whole thing (with his southern twang, st. louis apparently) your husband should be knocked upside the head, he has TWO young kids at home (OMG some reasoning holy s***, fall off my chair!!!), so of course i agreed. anyways more later as I think of it. she gets off work at 11:30 and then will be home, so he said he wants this dealt with tonight, I gave him my numbers and he gave me his, so we can consult
jonesgirly Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Way to grow some, Milf. Your reactions, appropriate. Your actions, appropriate. Kudos, Milf.
Chump64 Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 MILF!!! What did you find out on the keylogger? Way to kick his a$$! Keep us posted. We are here for you. Hopefully this will make him re-evaluate everything and clean up his act / recommit -- if that's what YOU want.
Sup Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Milf, OW husband and you should exchange information on each other spouses, like if he knows something that you don't, and vice versa. He may need your help in court, IF he decides to divorce her. Lastly make sure you keep everything professional between you and him, as you know that kind of temptation is not good. I'm glad you got word/s to him ok, you may wanna share keylogging idea with him if you havn't yet. Laterz.
jmargel Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Your happy now because you were finally able to get convinced that he is cheating & your not crazy. When crap was going on in my marriage she must've told me I was paranoid & crazy about 500 times. It wasn't until very recently that she admitted she cheated. Not physically but in the terms that she lied, betrayed & emotionally cheated in a way. But Milf, your problems are way deeper than just the cheating. Unless you determine what the root of the problems are (check my link in my signature) you are just dealing with one of many topics that are problems in your marriage. You now see what he has done to you in the past (the things besides cheating), you have proof that he HAS cheated and proof that he continues to lie & cheat on you. Now it's you that must follow through with this hard decision to leave him and to move onto better things. Betrayal is the worst thing to go through and often the cheater will deny, blame or otherwise not take responsibility for their actions because then they would have so much they are forced to deal with. Do not tell him about the keylogger, but stop playing detective.. Give yourself a rest and know that in your heart you have tried everything. He would have done this to anyone else he was married to. It wasn't you that caused him to do this.
Mz. Pixie Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Chump is right. Keep mum about the keylogger. If he wants to work on the marriage, I assume he'll be moving home and going to marriage counseling?? Don't let him convince you this is your problem and that he's telling the truth. We all know he's not. A man doesn't call a woman the way he calls her unless he's getting some. He wouldn't invest that much time, honey. He'd be investing it where he was getting some- which takes you right back to my earlier statement.
Author Milf629 Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 >>>>exhale<<<<<< well. what a long freaking weekend it has been. I have not as of yet spoken to the husband again myself. but things are looking up. Jason calls me about 1:30am, I am asleep, do not even realize I am picking up the phone, because had I realized it was him I would not have done so. but ANYWAYS.....he says what did you do? (lol) SO we spoke about "what I did" I said hey, I feel good about calling him, we talked about alot of what the Husband and I spoke about too. about how he had his own suspicions, apparently HER called jason about an hour prior and left an urgent voicemail. (LOL, get in a wee bit of trouble did we?) but jason and I talked alot, and I just kept saying yeah yeah yeah blah blah blah, I said you know what jason actions speak a 1000 times louder then words, and all your actions have done is make me mistrust YOU fruther. He of course kept with the deny it theme, HOWEVER he did start to realize (thank god) that her intentions may not have been as honorable as he once thought (really? no f-cking sh-t!) I told him about HER husband telling me about the later then usual nights, and the being asked to stay late at work, and he insisted he had nothing to do with that, but it shed some light on HER activites just the same. I said look, you weren't willing to end this, so I did it for both of you, and I dont care who is PO'ed about it. I told him I have been disrespected enough and I am done, he said I know I am sorry, i never meant to it wont happen again. he kept telling me not to throw this away, that all I am thinking isn't true, but that now he realizes how detrimental HER was to OUR relationship. he said let me come home, let me prove it to you, you can check whatever you want (he still doesn't know about the keylogger) I told him, why would you write to her "dont send me any messages, right now"? he said because I said maybe down the road their relationship wouldn't bother me, thats where the "right now" came from. I said look the fact is I dont trust you, and that is going to take ALOT to bring that back. he just kept repeating himself and begging me not to end this. he also (for the first time since all this began) said I love you, and I dont want to lose you. of course the "i love you" spoke volumes, because I hadn't heard it in so long, even though its been implied a 1000 times. I told him I wasn't ready to make a decision and that I was falling asleep on the phone. so we got off. then the next morning he was home, and we got a call from HER (on the house phone) I didn't pick up cause I knew it was HER and not the husband (I told the husband to block his call, of course now that I think of it, I dont think our line accepts blocked calls) btu anyways, she was trying to prove to him what number it was or something I dont know. I urged jason to call back and talk to the husband. he tryed once but got no answer, and then he was going to try again, but I was in the shower and he didn't want to do it while I wasn't around, cause he didn't want me to think he was being sneaky (oh finally we are seeing how things are going to go around here, and finally we are thinking about my feelings in all of this, good keep that up, cuase its going to be a tightly run ship for sometime!) Sunday: we spent the whole day together, in the morning when he got there, much earlier then I expected, he said hello, good morning, and actually managed a small hug sort of (can't quite explain it) but again there has been no physical contact in all of this either. so we spent the day together, enjoyed each other's company, we even drove to his parents together and had some laughs in the car, got home kind of late, he put Emma to bed I put gabby down (who is sick...joy) and then he said is it okay if I stick around for a while. so you know what I am thinking....I want him to come home, I want to work on this, i dont want to throw it all away, so I told him he could stay and he did, SO he's officially home. Part of me of course is scared. scared I am making an enormous mistake, scared I am in the dark on what really happened, scared that we will end up right back where we started. and Part of me, is happy, happy hes home, happy we can finally (hopefully) put this behind us and move forward. happy we have a "second" chance to fix this, and possibly BE happy, in our marriage and in our lives. we have our next therapy session today, it ought to be interesting to say the least.
Chump64 Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 But Milf, your problems are way deeper than just the cheating. Unless you determine what the root of the problems are (check my link in my signature) you are just dealing with one of many topics that are problems in your marriage.[/FONT Well jeez, she needs some time to breathe and digest this trauma. I can relate to feeling glad that you finally have proof, Milf. I remember the feeling of relief when I found out he was definitely cheating and that a) I was NOT crazy; and b) he and his OW were going to have to face the music / KARMA, baby. I think it’s obvious in any infidelity situation that there are problems deeper than cheating. Cheating is a byproduct. It takes time, thought and therapy to dig deep and find what led to this nightmare. Off to read Milf’s update...
Chump64 Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 YAY Milf! ABSOLUTELY keep mum about the keylogger, whatever you do. If he wants to continue this relationship with her, he will find a way, and often that involves secret email accounts, instant messaging, etc. What exactly did you find out using the keylogger anyway? I will give you my advice and obviously you can take it or leave it. I can see why you are pleased that he wants to work things out and that he says he loves you. HOWEVER, don't let your guard down. Don't let this euphoric feeling allow you to assume you can believe what he says, or that he has done a 100 percent turnaround. Don't believe him, not for a loooong time, until you are as sure as you can be that he has changed. * I would demand that he hand over any and all passwords to voice mail, email, etc., and that he save all text messages to his cell and let you read them. If any are deleted, bust his chops. Can you go online to compare his cell phone use against any deletions he may have made? Do you know when he has delete stuff? If so, write down the date and time and compare it to the next bill that comes (IF you can't compare it online). * If you are comfortable with it, think about putting a voice recorder in his car just to double check. * If you are going to work this out with him, I suggest you set some ground rules. I can tell you what my rules are but obviously you should make your own. Mine were: Truth about the affair -- a timeline of when things started, what went on, details about the emotional and sexual parts, etc.; NO MORE LIES, ever; not being alone with other women, even coworkers or friends -- sounds harsh, but he screwed up and obviously had effed up boundaries so that's his own doing; give over all passwords to voice mail / email / cell phone; be accountable for his whereabouts when he is gone; and enter into therapy long term. The sad reality is that when many cheaters are caught, they will find even more secretive ways to fool their spouses. They will go even deeper underground. My husband and his OW handled all their activity at work, by phone or email. No cell phones, nothing that was traceable. When he accidentally left his work email up at home one night and I saw two suspicious emails, I called him on it. I was told it was 'over-friendly workplace banter' and that it would stop. Well, it did stop (I got his password by keylogging). The email stopped, but the affair did not. They began to communicate by phone only, and only during the workday. They also communicated by work voice mail, leaving messages for each other in the evenings and on the weekends. So when cheaters are caught, they often -- not always -- simply hide things better. Keep your radar up. Keep that keylogger running and do everything in your power to NOT let him know you are using it. Your husband may well see this as the wake-up call he needs to straighten up. Mine did not when I first confronted him about the suspicious emails. But he didn't truly feel 'busted' until I had more concrete evidence. At that point, he finally realized, "This is it. I'm going to lose my wife if I don't knock this crap off." So while I say that many cheaters go further underground, this episode may be your husband's true wake-up call. Just don't give him the benefit of the doubt too easily. Good luck!
jmargel Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Milf in your whole statement I haven't heard the about any counseling. Right now he's getting his cake & eating it too. He hasn't faced any consequences for his actions. You are giving him a slap on the wrist. I would suggest you re-read your entire post here from the beginning.
Author Milf629 Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 No we've been in counseling for more than a month now. We have another session this afternoon. and yes it will be long term, because I do realize that infidelity's are just a symptom of something else. If I have realized nothing else its that. Guys I hear you but I still don't feel like I have proof! my radar is still up rest assured of that. and he doesn't know about the keylogging either, and I will keep that up and running. and he has accepted that i will be checking everything. and I have all of his passwords, user names and emails. as far as I know anyways. but the keylogger ought to tell me if I don't. but I will ask for reference purposes I have not heard back from the husband yet, I would like to know what happened there, I assume he will call when he can. i'll update later after our therapy session
Chump64 Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Uh, I thought I read that she told him "we are done," basically implying that he is out unless he knocks off the crap. Or am I misunderstanding, Milf? And it looks like he has handed over all passwords, etc.? I am curious about why she called your house though, and her alleged reason. Did she and your husband actually speak? And he said that was why she called -- to verify the phone number for her own spouse? That sounds bogus. I am not sure I'd have let him come back that soon, either. (Says the woman who never did kick her husband out of the house...) If I were you though Milf, I'd make him sleep in the guest room (or the couch) for at least a month.
whichwayisup Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 he said let me come home, let me prove it to you, you can check whatever you want (he still doesn't know about the keylogger) I told him, why would you write to her "dont send me any messages, right now"? he said because I said maybe down the road their relationship wouldn't bother me, thats where the "right now" came from That relationship SHOULD bother you, even down the road. He has to cut off ALL contact with her forever and NOT leave the door open a crack. There is no reason for them to be friends or talk! The fact that he brought that up means he's thinking ahead, hoping that one day you'll let him be friends with her...(Pick up where they left off...) The fact he's even thinking that is not good. Well, hopefully he'll do in action and not just in words. He says he's sorry and wants to try again..Let's see that in action! Broken promises is not what you wanna hear right now.
Author Milf629 Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 no "I" said maybe you can be friends down the road, not him. but I thats really why I was annoyed to is because he was leaving the door open. I think its safe to say at this point that its a done deal. I am not letting my guard down though. and yes I told him several times we are done. before this and in many other conversations. like I said still watching. am considering the voice recorder, have the keylogger (the other one was a free trial, so now its paid for, I will be monitoring diligently).
Bex_23 Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Thinking of you Milf. I think it would be a really good idea if you both agree to use this afternoons therapy to try and just listen to each other, whatever you may have to say. xx
jmargel Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 no "I" said maybe you can be friends down the road, not him. but I thats really why I was annoyed to is because he was leaving the door open. I think its safe to say at this point that its a done deal. I am not letting my guard down though. and yes I told him several times we are done. before this and in many other conversations. like I said still watching. am considering the voice recorder, have the keylogger (the other one was a free trial, so now its paid for, I will be monitoring diligently). So you told him you are done but you aren't? Basically he's totally disrespected you, your children & your vows. Then YOU had to catch him by playing detective, then you let him come back into your home. Where are the consequences here? By you tolerating this behavior you are endorsing future behavior like this by him. Treat him as a child. Would you punish your child if they used a curse word at you and disrespected you? I would assume so. Why is your husband any different? And by you saying they might have a chance at being friends in the future? HELLO, HERE IS A REALITY CHECK. You are just rolling over & piddling. What else does he need to do for you to realize that you are being taken advantage of? I'm not trying to sound harsh but you are going against everything you mentioned in your posts. Sorry if I am making you defensive, that's not my goal. My goal is to protect your interests. You came to us and we will do anything we can to guide you the right way. Make him EARN your trust back. Go a few days or a week without talking to him, make him really think about what he's done. And stop playing detective. As long as you play that role you will not be in a successful relationship. By him trying to earn your trust & love back there would be no need for it. He should be going to counseling on his own as well. I just see that his behavior is going to continue and only get worse. He has disrespected you & the kids for way too long. If I came to you and told you the same story you told us, what advice would you give me?
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