alfagrl Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 I posted at the same time as some of you. I did read John. I did. Here's what I will do, I will get to her Husband, because like I said previously why should I be the only one miserable, he deserves to know too. maybe I am being presumptive but I dont care. i will lie to him, tell him I can get over a physical affair, and work through our marriage if he tells me the truth, (not right then and there, I want him to sit on it a bit, before he gives me his redundant "I have nothing to admit statement") but that is he lies it is over, if he tells the truth I will in time forgive him and our marriage will be wonderful and We will be better then ever blah blah blah whatever it takes to get him to tell me. but that lying WILL result in divorce. and no no no I will not stay if he did it, I can't I will be lying my way to the truth (how ironic). but I think I have to do that. now when to get to her husband, I want to do that first. Whats the point of lying. Isnt that what your upset about....Him lying to you. what would that get you? The truth you say? You already know the truth! If you want to keep your marriage it needs to be rebuilt on truth not more lies. Please rethink you tatic. If you want to go,well you would have been gone already.
johnlucas Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 I posted at the same time as some of you. I did read John. I did. Here's what I will do, I will get to her Husband, because like I said previously why should I be the only one miserable, he deserves to know too. maybe I am being presumptive but I dont care. i will lie to him, tell him I can get over a physical affair, and work through our marriage if he tells me the truth, (not right then and there, I want him to sit on it a bit, before he gives me his redundant "I have nothing to admit statement") but that is he lies it is over, if he tells the truth I will in time forgive him and our marriage will be wonderful and We will be better then ever blah blah blah whatever it takes to get him to tell me. but that lying WILL result in divorce. and no no no I will not stay if he did it, I can't I will be lying my way to the truth (how ironic). but I think I have to do that. now when to get to her husband, I want to do that first. and basically now I start to accept my fate. the big "D" word. life f***ing sucks. Milf629. Do MORE than just read my words. ACT on them. You need courage. And you need clarity. This is what I always see reading these boards with Betrayed Spouses. They are wishy-washy & indecisive. Not clear. Not concise. They are purely in a world of confusion. Almost seemingly content with extending the Fantasy of their life they have built up no matter how much the Betrayer slaps them in the face with the Reality. I guess the reason I keep sticking around these boards reading these stories is to help someone learn some much-needed self-respect & gumption. I don't have time for vagueness. Time to separate the wheat from the chaff. It's go time, doggone it. No more MAYBES, Milf629. No more IFS, Milf629. No more POSSIBLYS, Milf629. No more I WILLS, Milf629. No more WE WILLS, Milf629. No more WE CANS, Milf629. No more I CANS, Milf629. No more I CAN'TS, Milf629. No more WHYS, Milf629. No more of that sh*t. Get off the pot, doggone it. No more obtuse soliloquies of denial. Long rambling statements going nowhere fast. No more o' dat! Put your investment into a better future. He's not the only one viable on the futures market. All you've got is poor returns from this investment. Cut losses & seek new gains. The next statements from your mouth should be who are you gonna call for divorce proceedings, when will the hearing take place, and who are you gonna meet after it's all over. That's it. I'm talking like this—so blunt & so brutal—so that it will compel you to leave that double-directioned mind behind. So you don't have time to rationalize this mess. So you don't have time to talk yourself out of what you need to do in these long paragraphs of insecurity. *You should be already preparing your children for the reality that father loves them but mother & father are not one unit anymore. *You should already be redefining his role in your life only as "father of our children". Once you have kids you're bonded for life so he's gonna be around. But not as your mate he won't. *You should already be preparing to practice civility with this man who will soon be out of your mainline life. He is the father of your kids & your kids don't need to see their parents in turmoil. So you should already be practicing how to get along with your soon-to-be former husband. *You should already be preparing to meet that new somebody who will treat you like they're supposed to. Whether this is a year, 2 years, 6 months down the line is up to you but you should be preparing for it. Your timeline is the PAST. Put it in its special folder & prep for the FUTURE folder. What is done in the PRESENT will go into that file. You can't be in the PRESENT when you're in the PAST. Simple logic run there. No more mushmouthed wishy-washy thinking from you, Milf629. IT'S TIME TO *ACT* Respect yourself 3,000,000,000. Three Billion. John Lucas
Walking away Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 I tend to agree with John Lucas. Respect yourself. You know, it is the things we don't do that we regret...not the things that we do. You could be daring to have a better future without him. I am a single mom with five kids....and I would much rather be where I am now than stuck in a dysfunctional marriage. There is much for you to look forward to if you just have the strength and dignity to say and BELIEVE this man is beneath you.
Chump64 Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 I can't justify a direction. can't justify staying, can'y justify leaving, the only thing I can jusitfy in my head, is being in "stuck" mode yet I can't seem to let this go, on a maybe and a cell phone and a gut feeling. I do think you have enough evidence to justify direction. And evidence aside, your husband is clearly telling you that he is not committed and is not sure he wants to be committed. In my opinion, the problem is that you are not sure what you want. Have you seen a counselor all by yourself? The fact that he wants a girlfriend, isn’t sure if he wants to be married, and won’t discontinue his relationship with this woman – that would be more than enough impetus for direction, in my book. If my husband had said those things to me, even if I hadn't done my little spy gig, I'd be gone. No wait, HE'D be gone. I agree with John Lucas to some degree but I think he’s also a bit harsh. Because I personally think there may still be a glimmer of hope for your marriage (IF that’s something you want). I also think that if you take him balls to the wall, be tough, tell him what YOUR plan is, he may buck up and decide his marriage is worth saving. He may NOT do that. But until you get strong, fend for yourself and bust his ass, he will not be forced to make a decision. IF you think you can get him to recommit to this marriage, and IF you think you can forgive his misdeeds, then consider that as an option. But ONLY if he is willing to play by your rules – and those rules should include complete and utter honesty (or as I told my cheating husband – NOT ONE MORE F*CKING LIE ); long term marriage counseling; discontinuing contact with the other person IMMEDIATELY – today, or with 24 hours tops; and make his life an open book – all passwords to any electronic or phone devices must be shared, he must be accountable with is time, he must spend XX number of hours with you alone (and make him responsible for setting this time up / finding childcare / etc.); and any other demands you want. If he wants this to work, he’ll bust his butt to make it work. If he doesn’t make an effort, or gives a half-assed effort, get.the.hell.out. Run, don't walk. Good luck, Milf. I will follow your story and offer any input when I can. I just want to reiterate – I hope that YOU will see a counselor alone, to help you clarify your thoughts – help you sort out what it is that you want, and what you can live with / forgive, in terms of his past misdeeds.
alfagrl Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 et off the pot, doggone it. No more obtuse soliloquies of denial. Long rambling statements going nowhere fast. No more o' dat! Dude, You crack me up:laugh: I got half way through your post and had to repond. To the above line. Brilliant my friend just brilliant, you are a good motivational speaker, however I think this kind of kick in the butt is not necessarly for milf629...It may be too early for that. Its not like this is a 5yr love affair and he is living two lives or an habitual cheater, lying to his wife the whole time. This is your typical 7 yr itch and it seems to me he is exploring and it needs to be niped in the bud asap. I think she should put her foot down and take the gloves off IF she wants to save this marriage. ( I don't think its beyond saving as of yet). But if you want out. By all means listen to Johnlucas. If not for advice atleast of the comedic value.
Chump64 Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 I think that John Lucas is funny, but I also think he has his own issues to fix and he does that (or maybe avoids doing that???) by harshin' on other people -- who are in hurtful situations that he has most likely experienced -- in a way that is not necessarily 100 percent helpful.
johnlucas Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 I think that John Lucas is funny, but I also think he has his own issues to fix and he does that (or maybe avoids doing that???) by harshin' on other people -- who are in hurtful situations that he has most likely experienced -- in a way that is not necessarily 100 percent helpful. By the way, why do you keep that name? You're not a chump. But I guess you keep that screenname so people can recognize it's the same speaker. I don't have any issues. The reason I'm so strong worded in a lot of my replies is because people around here don't seem to have any Stand-Up for themselves half the time. Every story I read is a bunch of poorly thought-out, jumbled, confused meandering. It's like this. When my hand is on fire, I don't wallow in the details of the fire & what makes it burn so & why it chose ME to burn on & estimate about the degree of heat & marvel at the red yellow blue colors of the flame & stand mesmerized at how the flame flickers & ask others what they think about the flame-what makes it burn etc. No. I GET MY FREAKING HAND OFF OF THE FLAME! Human beings couldn't surVIVE if we had these kind of response times to an emergency. Our body knows when injury is apparent to reflexively REMOVE itself from whatever injures it. If it DOESN'T then that part of body will be DAMAGED. Very cut & dry. 1, 2, 3. It doesn't think about it, it just DOES it. No, Chump64. I have never experienced what people here have experienced. Nor will I EVER experience what people here have experienced. And you know WHY? Because I won't ALLOW myself to experience what people here have experienced. I have enough self-regard & self-value to know that I am worth more than that kind of treatment. Harsh? Not harsh enough honestly. She's indecisive & very wishy-washy in the mind. I say these things blunt & brutal on purpose so this will bring her clarity & focus of mind to operate properly. I'm removing the options & reducing them to 1 and 2. On & Off switch. Making it binary. 01010101010101 like these computers we're typing on right now. It's Black. It's White. It's tough for you to get by. Yeah yeah yeah. I'm trying to help her see the crossroads she's at right now. Fork in the road with no soup spoon. Wish-bone salad dressing. Time to pull it one way or the other. I didn't say she was undeserving of love & undeserving of being cared for. That would be mean. And that would be wrong. And that would also be incorrect. It is a HUMAN RIGHT to be loved & cared for. A human RIGHT. How long is she gonna put up with this routine? 21 years? 40 years? To her deathbed? When will she finally act? AFTER she catches herpes from one of her man's flings? AFTER she catches HIV? Gonorrhea? AFTER he impregnates the other woman? When her 3 year old wonders why she can't have the new Barbie playhouse is because Mommy's tied up in medical expenses due to her illness brought by the affair? Coddling & babyrocking this situation ain't helping nothing but to let her stew in this mess a little longer so she can rationalize herself to accepting it. SHE should be the loudest out here not ME. I'm in my house safe & sound without a care in the world. This doesn't affect me. It's my empathy that allows to feel the pain of this situation which angers me. No, SHE should be the MOST angry. The MOST protesting. The MOST outspoken about the wrongs done to her. We should be calming HER down telling her not to let her anger overtake her even though she has the right to be angry. What I've noticed reading the stories in these relationships is Egoshift. The Betrayer is full of Ego while the Betrayed don't have ENOUGH Ego. The Betrayer often says "I" "I" "I" "I" "I" "me" "me" "me" "me" "me" "my" "my" "my" The Betrayed often says "He/She" "He/She" "He/She" "Him/Her" "Him/Her" "Him/Her" "His/Hers" "His/Hers" "We" We" "Us" "Us" "Our" "Our" "Ours" The other party is more important to the Betrayed. And to the Betrayer the self is more important. I'm trying to help these people Stand Up for themselves for once. And on her next response I'll tell her one way or the other how to get off the fence. Either to break away or embrace the situation. And my words if she's unwilling to break away will shock you but I will mean every word. You either be a NON-Doormat or as wrestler/actor The Rock says...you be THE BEST d*mn Doormat there ever was! 0 or 1. Binary. No analog here. The choice is simple. And that's helpful. John Lucas
johnlucas Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 Dude, You crack me up:laugh: I got half way through your post and had to repond. To the above line. Brilliant my friend just brilliant, you are a good motivational speaker, however I think this kind of kick in the butt is not necessarly for milf629...It may be too early for that. Its not like this is a 5yr love affair and he is living two lives or an habitual cheater, lying to his wife the whole time. This is your typical 7 yr itch and it seems to me he is exploring and it needs to be niped in the bud asap. I think she should put her foot down and take the gloves off IF she wants to save this marriage. ( I don't think its beyond saving as of yet). But if you want out. By all means listen to Johnlucas. If not for advice atleast of the comedic value. Thanks alfagrl. I try to make it interesting. John Lucas
Chump64 Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 I actually agree with much of what you say, JL, but I can also tell you that she is probably dealing with a situation that's more complicated than any of us can possibly know. It's not always as black-and-white as people make it. And JL, you seem to be of the mind that no marriage can ever be fixed after infidelity, which I disagree with. You must admit that you have a very anti-marriage stance. I've even see you start threads about marriage counseling and how it's a huge crock of sh*t. Well, marriage counseling is not designed specifically to keep marriages together. It is also designed to help two people decide when it's best to cut their losses and get out. The harsh, kneejerk, "do this or that this minute" advice is well-intended, I'm sure, but it's also very rigid and appears to be based on strong personal opinions that you can't see past.
Author Milf629 Posted June 15, 2006 Author Posted June 15, 2006 eh it really doesn't bother me. I am not one for sugar coating, so I often appreciate that in other people. I called her, well actually I hung up on HER. hee hee. blocked the call of course. thought maybe just maybe HER hubby might answer the phone. no such luck. then I called H and I told him exactly what I said I would. and he of course didn't take me up on my offer to call me back, after "sitting on it" for a while, and he of course said the same thing he has been saying. so I said ok, thats what I needed to hear. and pretty much I stopped listening to his banter. :rolleyes: I just kept saying yup, ya heard you, heard it pass right through my head and go out the other ear. yup ya. so now I begin the oh so lovely process of finding a lawyer. I mean I have a few names, that I started collecting for an occassion such as this. so now I need to call them. it might (i know i know you hate that word john) take me a day or two to do so. becuase I do actually have yet still to admit to myself this is happening, even though the words left my mouth.
johnlucas Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 I actually agree with much of what you say, JL, but I can also tell you that she is probably dealing with a situation that's more complicated than any of us can possibly know. It's not always as black-and-white as people make it. And JL, you seem to be of the mind that no marriage can ever be fixed after infidelity, which I disagree with. You must admit that you have a very anti-marriage stance. I've even see you start threads about marriage counseling and how it's a huge crock of sh*t. Well, marriage counseling is not designed specifically to keep marriages together. It is also designed to help two people decide when it's best to cut their losses and get out. The harsh, kneejerk, "do this or that this minute" advice is well-intended, I'm sure, but it's also very rigid and appears to be based on strong personal opinions that you can't see past. Well, I love it when people are united. When a marriage is good I'm happy actually. I'm sad when I hear of breakups sometimes. And no I wouldn't always recommend divorce/breaking up on every issue. But this is a matter of trust. And it really never goes away even IF two married folks stay together after a betrayal. I've seen the people here themselves account for that. It sticks with you no matter far you try to drive it down or overlook it or mask it. Say sex goes south for whatever reason in a relationship. I would NEVER recommend dumping the spouse for that. THERE I *WOULD* say marriage counseling could help or keep trying & work on solutions. It's affairs & all that freaking deceit that irks me. After these types of things someone says marriage counseling I'm like "puh". We're way beyond the time for counsel if it's gotten that bad already. I mean if a guy or girl don't wanna be married no more then just say so! Dang! What's so hard about that? It'll hurt but at LEAST you'd be honest, direct & upfront. No risk of disease to your spouse or any other similar drama that happens in affairs. It'll show you had at LEAST the RESPECT for your spouse to level with them. People are just cowards, man, & that rubs me the wrong way. I have low tolerance for manipulators, two-faces, liars & on-principle cowards. People who ain't man enough or woman enough to lay it on the table & just come clean with the d*mn thing. It's her choice what she wants to do in the end. All I'm doing is throwing my twopence in the wishing well. Just giving her another scratchoff to potentially win today's Lottoplay. I don't necessarily have an anti-marriage stance per se. I have an anti-bullsh*t marriage stance. Fake marriages. Marriages built upon a foundation of lies. THAT'S what my pet peeve is when I come here. I don't know maybe it's the Taurus in me. I'm very decisive outside of restaurant menu situations. I don't try to dwell long in confusion & cloudy mindsets. I like clarity & sureground. To know where I stand. And once that's known the ease of knowing how to step next. And I hate dealing with drama! No place for it in my life outside of the TV tube where it belongs. Though my posts seem brutal & harsh all my intention is is to give these people some courage, clarity & willpower. Just giving them a bit of myself. John Lucas
a4a Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 First off what a mess! Sorry to be reading this. Best wishes and strength to you. JL... WOW. I so agree with 99% of your post. MC should take place before lines are crossed, before a marriage goes terminal IMHO. For me it is a black and white issue as well.... Been there and done that twice. I found no need to study the flaming hand just pulled that sucker right out of the flames applied a little aloe and moved on.
alfagrl Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 JL, I could of used you when my mess went down. I was wollowing in self pity and saying over and over "But I love him". >>laughing<< If the bastard wasn't a coward and told me the truth from the get go, it would have saved me a world of hurt. I do see chump64 postions too. I think she is saying people need a mourning period to realize their life is about to drastically change and they come here to greive.
jmargel Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 Milf (heh, the name fits ya).. Just take it day by day, or hour by hour. I know where you are coming from . I was there. Things happen so fast your head seems like it's spinning. You get advice from everyone and you feel like you have to act asap. Take time for yourself, push yourself away from this situation. It has devoured you for the time being. I can understand why as well. You put everything into a person and you just got basically slapped for it by him. What he has done to you was not the result of you or anything you did. This is a problem of his, which only he can fix. Please for your own sanity stop playing detective. Stop worrying, get your mind on other things. This isn't healthy and with your obessiveness about this I am worried about you. I think you know in your heart he's cheating and once you get the proof you are looking for it might be too much for you to handle. Please talk to close friends and family as well. Get your own counselor. You are not alone in this world by any means. You have not failed. Only until he has come to terms to what he has done & is doing can things only start to get better. You can't force him to see that. In the mean time you need to move on with your life. Not sure where you live but I would imagine anyone on here who lives close to you would talk to you in person if needed.. Hang in there, you are with friends
johnlucas Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 JL, I could of used you when my mess went down. I was wollowing in self pity and saying over and over "But I love him". >>laughing<< If the bastard wasn't a coward and told me the truth from the get go, it would have saved me a world of hurt. I do see chump64 postions too. I think she is saying people need a mourning period to realize their life is about to drastically change and they come here to greive. That's why I keep coming here, alfagrl. To keep situations like what happened to you from continuing to occur. Check my post history & look up my post "The 3 Billion Rule (3,000,000,000)" [which I've also linked to in one of my posts in this thread]. People don't need to put up with that nonsense & they may need jumper cables of truth to get the battery started again. I'm trying to be the jumper cables 'cause the engine SHO Ain't turning over. Ch-click. Ch-click. Nothing. No juice. No gas. I'm trying to get these engines ROARING! PURRING! REeEeEeEeEeEeRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOMMM! RRRROOOOMROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMM!! They're stuck in the mud & they need a push. That's why they came here for advice. I understand what Chump64's saying but I think it's more important to lay it on the line for people stuck in twilight so they can see the full day for once. And sometimes there's no other way than to say it blunt, uncut & raw. Actually I'm better than my cousin who has NO TACT whatsoever. He's ALWAYS brutally honest & harsh. I had to warn him about that. I only take these strong tones on stories of betrayal & deceit like these. He'd do it that way & worse no matter WHAT the topic! LOL! John Lucas
whichwayisup Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 What about hiring a PI to gather as much info as you can. Also, start writing this stuff down - IN detail. Your H is a class -A-Schmuck! He's fooling himself! And he's losing out. NOT you. Good luck and stay strong.
Chump64 Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 JL: But this is a matter of trust. And it really never goes away even IF two married folks stay together after a betrayal. Do you have anything to back that up, or is that just your anecdotal opinion? There are people who recover from infidelity, and they couldn’t do that without trust. I’m not saying it’s routine or that it even happens a lot, but you should avoid absolutes like "never." JL: I mean if a guy or girl don't wanna be married no more then just say so! Dang! What's so hard about that? That's something I've said to my cheating husband before. You are assuming that all cheaters no longer want to be married. Then why would they bother to hide the affair from their spouses? I have been betrayed in one of the worst ways (well, in my own self centered opinion anyway). I have questioned the value my spouse put on me and our marriage, but I never felt that he wanted out. Hell, I may be the one who wants out. Still sorting it all out. Alfa: I think she is saying people need a mourning period to realize their life is about to drastically change and they come here to greive. Kinda, but I'm also saying that people in this situation need to figure out what they want and take the bull by the horns. I don’t think I’m that far off from JL, actually. I just want people to realize it’s complicated. Milf can't just 'turn off' her feelings of love for her husband. Plus she already said that her marital finances are a mess, for example. She may not be in a pack her bags and leave, immediately. What she DOES need to do is figure out an eventual escape plan an then give her husband an ultimatum. That is, assuming she thinks her marriage might be worth saving. If she doesn't think it's worth saving or giving him an ultimatum, then her direction should be clear. It bugs me when people here give her the kneejerk, "pack your bags and run" advice. JMO. WWIU: I am not a fan of PIs. I found waaaay more out on my own than any PI could have.
johnlucas Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 JL: But this is a matter of trust. And it really never goes away even IF two married folks stay together after a betrayal. Do you have anything to back that up, or is that just your anecdotal opinion? There are people who recover from infidelity, and they couldn’t do that without trust. I’m not saying it’s routine or that it even happens a lot, but you should avoid absolutes like "never." Recover? They may stick together. They may be happy. They may all this & that. But once trust is tampered with I don't believe it EVER goes back to 100%. And the clue to seeing this reality is if the one-time betrayer does something out of the ordinary or comes home late for a benign innocent reason (say car broke down or something)...if the thought of that spouse doing something subversive even CROSSES the once-betrayed mind, that means the trust is never what it was. It is ALWAYS SOMEWHERE in the back, in the dusty attic of the once-betrayed mind. People CAN change but most likely they don't. What do they say about leopards & spots? Sure people can go on all the time. This is historic. But you're gonna have to show ME some proof that says trust returns to its former status & unease as a result of the betrayal of that trust *totally* goes away. I really don't believe it does. JL: I mean if a guy or girl don't wanna be married no more then just say so! Dang! What's so hard about that? That's something I've said to my cheating husband before. You are assuming that all cheaters no longer want to be married. Then why would they bother to hide the affair from their spouses? I have been betrayed in one of the worst ways (well, in my own self centered opinion anyway). I have questioned the value my spouse put on me and our marriage, but I never felt that he wanted out. Hell, I may be the one who wants out. Still sorting it all out. It's simple. When you're married you don't cheat on your spouse. Very easy. (UNLESS you've both agreed upon that open marriage clause at the beginning of this contract) When you are looking for other people to relation with then marriage is not cutting it for you anymore. (UNLESS you've both agreed at the beginning for open marriage) It's not the MARRIED part necessarily that they're hanging onto. It's the household & security that keeps them there. Also the public image to family, friends & society. They don't want you really in a true aspect. They use you to maintain other things. And when you threaten to break off the relation the fear of losing those things comes out & they beg you to stay because you are that playing card that keeps this whole house of cards together. They hide the affair to avoid the inevitable confrontation that would lead to the disassembling of the cardhouse. Like I said cowards. Just say you don't wanna be married house of cards be d*mned. When a man cheats on his wife, the other woman essentially becomes his wife & his wife becomes his housekeeper/nanny/roommate/boarder. When a woman cheats on her husband, the other man essentially becomes her husband & her husband becomes her sponsor/babysitter/roommate/boarder. When you are married you come to your spouse FIRST. If you don't then you don't want to be married no matter how much you say the opposite. Actions are louder than words. What they say is not important if what they say doesn't match what they DO. Alfa: I think she is saying people need a mourning period to realize their life is about to drastically change and they come here to greive. Kinda, but I'm also saying that people in this situation need to figure out what they want and take the bull by the horns. I don’t think I’m that far off from JL, actually. I just want people to realize it’s complicated. Milf can't just 'turn off' her feelings of love for her husband. Plus she already said that her marital finances are a mess, for example. She may not be in a pack her bags and leave, immediately. What she DOES need to do is figure out an eventual escape plan an then give her husband an ultimatum. That is, assuming she thinks her marriage might be worth saving. If she doesn't think it's worth saving or giving him an ultimatum, then her direction should be clear. It bugs me when people here give her the kneejerk, "pack your bags and run" advice. JMO. Oh I realize there are logistics to work through when going through these things. I just want her to have the proper sentiment so she doesn't continue to get played. She didn't even have THAT. Maybe iffa coulda woulda if we if i sometimes mighta maybuhbuhbuhbuh. Crap. Very unclear & she woulda kept playing these Columbo games knowing all the while what's going on. It don't take Stephen Hawking to figure this out. He made it very clear & easy to discover. She can't get to Step B if she don't get Step A down first. And that's drop this jabroni who's doing nothing but playing you for a dadgum fool & move on to a man who knows how to treat a wife. Once she has the mind & conviction to move on with her life then she can work the plan on just how to properly & most smoothly get it done. But no she's showing off her I Spy techniques co-starring Bill Cosby. Basically showing us exactly how he's cheating & how far the affair is going/has GONE but yet still indecisive on what SHE needs to do knowing this detailed information. She can pull a Florida Evans from Good Times, drop the casserole & shout out "D*MN D*MN D***MN!!!" if she needs to grieve. But her hand's on fire & the grief will only get worse while she's getting burnt. WWIU: I am not a fan of PIs. I found waaaay more out on my own than any PI could have. Did you consult Magnum? I heard he was pretty good in the 80's. John Lucas
jonesgirly Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Milf In some ways, you sound like me. Almost as if you don't trust yourself to know the truth. I invested the same amount of time and energy into trying to figure 'things' out, trying to be a PI on my own, etc. Although I still don't have anything 'concrete' (including any time of openness or honesty from my H), we BOTH know what he did was wrong. What is different in your situation is that your H doesn't seem to think he behaved in a less-than honorable fashion towards you! You will move (in due time), to a point where you no longer spend most hours of your day trying to investigate him. You will move to a point where you no longer wake up thinking about the 'issue', and start thinking about you're going to do for yourself. If nothing else, your husband has certainly made you "less-than" top priority in his life. Sucks, but mine does that too. Maybe thats what makes it harder - you've invested so much into a relationship you thought was equal - the shock of finding out this person you thought you 'knew soo well' could actually betray your trust so deeply. So for you, investigate all you want (covertly, of course). Even though you already know the answer, some times just getting a tidbit of something concrete gives you the sense of 'knowing' when you're at a time in your life when nothing makes sense. At the same time, begin to realize that you are far more valuable than you husband may "make you feel." Know that by making your husband feel like he is some kind of 'prize', he will continue to behave like one. Stop 'being there' for him, stop allowing his intrusion into YOUR life. He's made is poor choices, let him live with it. You have standards for yourself, and if he cannot meet them, then whats the point? I know he will always be a part of your life because of the children, but its much nicer when an ex-husband respects you, than when they don't. And speaking of child support, have you spoken to a lawyer to find out your options yet? That would be a wise move, and my possibly show your husband that you're not 'waiting' for him to choose you.
Chump64 Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Ok John Lucas, I have to admit that I was cracking up at the references to Florida Evans and Stephen Hawking. We will have to agree to disagree on some of the larger points you make. I don't think you are looking at cheating, at all, from some of the same angles I'm viewing it. Primarily, from the angle of human fallibility and weakness, etc., and from a psychological angle (vs. your black and white world). And trust me, I am NOT defending cheating or condoning it. I would be the last person in the world to do that. I am saying that there are deep reasons and deep dysfunctions often associated with cheating, which actually say more about the cheater than the relationship itself, and there are some cheaters who are worthy of a second chance, IMO. And actually no, I don't think trust can be regained 100 percent between my husband and I. Frankly, I don't think I can ever trust anyone 100 percent again, except for myself. Wait, I think I am sounding more cynical than you ...
Author Milf629 Posted June 16, 2006 Author Posted June 16, 2006 So I told you all we spoke yesterday, I ended it by saying, See you tomorrow (because he needed to be there for the kids) and we should figure out a time to sit down and talk to Emma (our oldest). He fo course just as I suspected, showed up, after he got off of work. I locked all the doors, put a chair in front of the front door, so he couldn't get in. Went up to the window and asked him if he needed to get something, he said yes, so of course I let him in. >>>dips***<<< so fo course the only thing he "needed" was to aggravate me some more. The thing is, without some "hard" (no pun intended) evidence, I just can't throw it away. ALL I have are these phone calls. Is it really enough, to assume there is an affair (John I am sure you will have lots to say on this ). I did say a couple of things. NUMBER 1: relationship with HER, HAS to stop. I said you dont want to end it, FINE, then we can get divorced! He says he will end it. I mean I said look it is what it is and I cannot even begin to move past this, until you do. so suck it up buttercup. When he is in front of me, and I see his face, I beleive him. Maybe that makes me a doormat (from some view points anyways) but I still love him very much, I still remember our wedding day, I still remember so many good things between us, and I cannot cannot cannot justify throwing it away for what I do have in front of me. What if he IS telling the truth. what if? I will have thrown away the love of my life. the possibility that this is all truthful is just as much there as the possibility that it is not. I beleive once the phone calls have ceased and there is no contact, I can actually "work" on this, rather then jumping on the vicous little obsessive Merry-go-round.
alfagrl Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Good...I really think you can get this back on track. Your only a doormat if this continues over and over and you turn a blind eye and keep forgiving. Remember the saying , Fool me once shame on you. Fool me TWICE then shame on ME. Don't let it get to that point. If you feel in your heart of hearts you can forgive and not keep throwing this back in his face when you get mad And you feel he is being truthful when he says he gonna stop the A( if there wasn't an affair, there would be nothing to stop)then its worth a shot. If it happens more than once then thats when you go into full Johnlucus mode.
Author Milf629 Posted June 16, 2006 Author Posted June 16, 2006 yeah no i agree. a breach of contract at this point would mean full johnlucas mode
Bex_23 Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Dear Milf, It all sounds very painful and difficult, but I really think you should listen to John Lucas! If I could make an observation it would be that I really don't think whether your husband is having an affair or not is the real issue. You state in your first post that you nearly got divorced quite some time ago, 2003 I think? I think that is what you should be focussing on. What led to that crisis, and is it salvagable. Currently you are obsessing about whether or not he is having an affair, but what will a confirmation of this really achieve, beyond making you feel even more rejected than you do now? I think that maybe proof that he has been unfaithful sexually will allow you to feel that it is HIS fault and not yours if the marriage ends. Pointless it's no ones fault. You clearly dont trust him any more and he is clearly looking elsewhere for support and company (Plus or minus sex). How does it honestly make you feel spying on him? Which is also a betrayal albeit not a sexual one. How will he feel if he is innocent and finds out about how much scrutiny you are putting him under if he isn't having a sexual affair? Divorce does not have to be a negative decision. I think you should wok on taking small steps to moving on and spend all he time and energy you are investing in spying on your husband, to making sure that your inevitable break up does not damage your childrens wellbeing or jaundice their view of what a relationship is all about. Good luck and be strong for what you have to face will not be easy. Kindest of wishes Bex
Author Milf629 Posted June 16, 2006 Author Posted June 16, 2006 ummmm mostly the 2003 thing was we had a 6 month old. he was a new father and somewhat treated her like she was an alien he was really out of his enviroment and "I" did everything and it really chapped my ass. I will say however that there are issues and I am confident "WE" can fix them all. But the trust thing I can't fix that. He is aware of MOST of the spying I am doing. not all but most. but he is also aware that he has given me a reason to feel this way, its not like i all of a sudden decided he was cheating and had to investigate, he f***ed up and he knows it. that aside, we do have issues that need dealing with, no doubt, I have never denied it, but at this point that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, I have every confidence that we can get through it. but an affair I dont know I could fix that.
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