jonesgirly Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 Am I being too, um, sensitive? Brief recap, its been a long time since starting here : H had an EA with a coworker lasting over a year, beginning just one year after we were married (honeymoons over now!). The EA occured for all of 2004 through July of 2005. All kinds of crap, won't bore you with details. Basically, he wanted me to just forget and move on, but kept doing things that were not helping me heal. It was weird, because he would tell me he knew what he needed to do, then apologize for not doing them. He became everything he shouldn't - defensive, depressed, manipulative, etc. Link if you're bored: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/search.php?searchid=634466 Okay, so here's todays tidbit. He works at his office on most Saturdays. The girl he had an EA with worked there, but has been gone for about a year and a half (they had kept in contact through last summer, until just after I discovered the nature of their relationship). She had a baby in January 06 (no, he's not that babies daddy) . She sent emails to him with pictures a few months ago, which he did forward to me. All EXCEPT one, which he couldn't explain how it was deleted! So this morning, he sends me an email at 10:30 a.m.: "Sarah called to see if I was working and stopped by with her baby. He looks just like that I wanted you to know. She was only here about 20 minutes." WTF? I think he should've called me or emailed me right after she called, to tell me she was coming up, BEFORE she came in there! I think he probably DIDN'T, because he knew I would not be 'happy' about this visit. I don't know, maybe they still have more contact than what I know. Or maybe I'm being too sensitive. I don't know - its just seems like he is incapable of doing the right thing in order to save this marriage. And for me it is such a big slap in the face. I feel like I'm nothing. Not even worthy of an 'attempt' to keep. And his reply to my question of why he didn't tell me BEFORE she came up to his office? "Maybe I should have called you immediately but I didn't. I did in the end tell you" Maybe I'm being too sensitive? I don't know. I just think he wears the "I'm a great guy" badge way too easily. Sure he tells me - AFTER THE FACT. I know he's smart enough to know that if he HAD told me before, I wouldn't have given them my blessing. What a selfish person.
Chump64 Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 I'd call bullsh*t on that crap, in a heartbeat. He needs to work harder on this and (a) cut all contact with her, period; and (b) let you know ASAP if she ever contacts him. Are you guys in counseling? I hope he can do what he needs to do to make you feel safe.
whichwayisup Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 "Sarah called to see if I was working and stopped by with her baby. He looks just like that I wanted you to know. She was only here about 20 minutes." 1)Why is she still calling him when SHE knows that they are not supposed to be in contact anymore. She isn't respecting HIS wishes...And he, ofcourse, isn't respecting yours. 2)Why didn't he tell her NO, DO NOT DROP BY. He had that option. Instead, he told her yes, drop by (I assume) and she did...Willingly. 3)Why is she showing off her baby to him? This makes me wonder............ I'm angry for you. Your husband is acting like an idiot and is downplaying it all. NO CONTACT IS NO CONTACT. PERIOD. He should have said no to her when she called. She is emailing him still, sending photo's, calling him. Why? And why is he allowing it to continue (emotional affair) when he knows it's hurting you. These are all things you need to find out. Is she married? Have a boyfriend? If so, involve him. And I'd actually talk to her directly and let her know she is NOT welcome in your lives and that means no more calls/emails/or dropping in unannounced to see him. There is NO reason why she should be part of his life. Not even on a casual basis.
Author jonesgirly Posted June 10, 2006 Author Posted June 10, 2006 Chump, Thank you WWIU, Thank you My H has such a lack of respect/remorse for this whole mess, that I sometimes think I'm being unreasonable in my thinking. I need the input here that tells me I'm not crazy-thinkin. When I said that he should've told me before she came up there, he says "I could have NOT told you and avoided all this." And I'm sure that thought crossed his mind! I did point out to him that the "this" he was referring to in that statement was actually "me". He says to me that he thought he was "doing the right thing" (I guess by telling me), but that he "didn't feel right about it and should have told her no, or told her he was home." My response to that was....."This is exactly what bothers me. You don't feel right about something, but you do it anyway." I wonder how he expects me to think he'll EVER do the right thing!!!
Author jonesgirly Posted June 10, 2006 Author Posted June 10, 2006 1)Why is she still calling him when SHE knows that they are not supposed to be in contact anymore. She isn't respecting HIS wishes...And he, ofcourse, isn't respecting yours. Technically, there was never a NC agreement between any of us, although he had told me he never wanted to talk to or hear from her again (yeh). I had preferred that he keep her 'out' of our marriage by not discussing 'us' with 'her' any more. The real issue here is that HE doesn't respect ME at all! And I so wish that he would. 2)Why didn't he tell her NO, DO NOT DROP BY. He had that option. Instead, he told her yes, drop by (I assume) and she did...Willingly. My point to him exactly. 3)Why is she showing off her baby to him? This makes me wonder............ I know, I know. Everyone at last years party wondered about this too! Really, he's had two vasectomies (the first one was apparently not strong enough to block off his manliness), and I'm certain I'd have more children if he weren't shootin blanks. Oh, but he did make a point of saying that her baby looked just like her ex-BF (he used to work at his company also). She is young (25), lives with her parents, and has broken up with her BF (baby's daddy). So there is no one that would 'curb her enthusiasm' (except of course, my H). Thanks for being angry on my behalf. I haven't been allowed to express my anger at my H, without receiving it back two-fold. He just doesn't seem to understand that there is a legitimate reason for mine, and his anger is just defensiveness. You're right - he downplays all of this, wishing instead that I would 'just get over it.' I don't know how to even SAY to him that I WOULD get over it (eventually), if he'd stop being an ass. I've sent him every link, article, e-book, etc, on how to help rebuild a relationship after betraying the trust of your spouse. Apparently, he cannot read english. And the crummiest thing of all? He'll come back at me with comments like "You didn't want this to work out", even after this mornings 'visit'! He just doesn't see that HE should be trying to fix it, not making it worse every six weeks or so!
whichwayisup Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 My H has such a lack of respect/remorse for this whole mess, that I sometimes think I'm being unreasonable in my thinking. I need the input here that tells me I'm not crazy-thinkin. You're not crazy. And you're not overreacting. He's UNDER reacting! I mean, he cheated, not you. Why is he hellbent on throwing it in your face like it was your fault? I'm sure in his mind, he just wants to forget all about it. He isn't cheating now, yet he sees no harm in keeping intouch with the OW. DUH! He is not thinking of your feelings, or doing anything to gain back your trust..So it seems... When I said that he should've told me before she came up there, he says "I could have NOT told you and avoided all this." And I'm sure that thought crossed his mind! Yup. Either way he is screwed...And that's not your fault. His cheating has brought all this on, so in the end he has noone to blame but himself. He knows this, but probably isn't ready to admit that, or make the right changes so he can see the damage of his affair. I did point out to him that the "this" he was referring to in that statement was actually "me". He says to me that he thought he was "doing the right thing" (I guess by telling me), but that he "didn't feel right about it and should have told her no, or told her he was home." Bulls***! He thought of himself. Selfish. He didn't consider how you would feel. Infact, because of that he shouldn't be talking to her BECAUSE of how you feel about it. How the heck trust going to comeback if he can't see that seeing the OW or talking to her is doing so much damage now. Idiot! My response to that was....."This is exactly what bothers me. You don't feel right about something, but you do it anyway." I wonder how he expects me to think he'll EVER do the right thing!!! And what did he say when you said that? I'm guessing you got the bambi look. He knows...Deep inside he knows, but his actions seem like he can't be bothered to give 100% to you and the marriage.
whichwayisup Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 Technically, there was never a NC agreement between any of us, although he had told me he never wanted to talk to or hear from her again (yeh). I had preferred that he keep her 'out' of our marriage by not discussing 'us' with 'her' any more. The real issue here is that HE doesn't respect ME at all! And I so wish that he would. Ok, well NOW you tell him that it's NC. That is the rule. He cannot see/talk/email or IM with her. If she pops in unannounced, he should be able to stand up to her and tell her this too if she keeps on pestering him. 2)Why didn't he tell her NO, DO NOT DROP BY. He had that option. Instead, he told her yes, drop by (I assume) and she did...Willingly. My point to him exactly. What did he say to that? I know, I know. Everyone at last years party wondered about this too! Really, he's had two vasectomies (the first one was apparently not strong enough to block off his manliness), and I'm certain I'd have more children if he weren't shootin blanks. Oh, but he did make a point of saying that her baby looked just like her ex-BF (he used to work at his company also). She is young (25), lives with her parents, and has broken up with her BF (baby's daddy). So there is no one that would 'curb her enthusiasm' (except of course, my H). Well, maybe a paternity test should be done, just incase???? Never say never... The fact that she and her BF have broken up and now she's living with her folks is interesting. This is an idea. IF she doesn't leave your husband alone, keeps calling him or trying to see him THEN TELL HER PARENTS. I'm sure they wouldn't be proud of their daughter chasing a MM. Question. Are you sure that he's told her that he isn't interested? I don't want to put fears into your head, but that drop-in visit seemed abit too friendly...And I still don't understand why he didn't tell her NO on the phone in the first place. Thanks for being angry on my behalf. I haven't been allowed to express my anger at my H, without receiving it back two-fold. He just doesn't seem to understand that there is a legitimate reason for mine, and his anger is just defensiveness. You're right - he downplays all of this, wishing instead that I would 'just get over it.' I don't know how to even SAY to him that I WOULD get over it (eventually), if he'd stop being an ass. You're welcome. OK, well, maybe you need to get mad at him. Let him see and feel how much you resent what he's done and continuing to do by keeping intouch with her. As casual as it may be, it's NOT good for the marriage. I think marriage counselling is the key. Just hope he's willing to go with you and work his ass off to make it all good again. I've sent him every link, article, e-book, etc, on how to help rebuild a relationship after betraying the trust of your spouse. Apparently, he cannot read english. Until he's willing to give the marriage 100% effort, things will stay this way. It's up to you on how much you're willing to put up with. I know you love him, he's your husband, and he does deserve a second chance. I just hope that is what HE wants too. Because his actions (from what you've said) aren't showing it. And the crummiest thing of all? He'll come back at me with comments like "You didn't want this to work out", even after this mornings 'visit'! He just doesn't see that HE should be trying to fix it, not making it worse every six weeks or so! Ohhh, he's reflecting it on you. Which means he really doesn't "get it" yet. Has he actually taken responsibility for his actions? Maybe print out DazednConfused's long thread. Let him read it and see how feels afterwards. Not too sure if you want him reading your words here, but if you print out this thread, would he read it and maybe understand where you're coming from?
Author jonesgirly Posted June 11, 2006 Author Posted June 11, 2006 WWIU Ok, well NOW you tell him that it's NC. That is the rule. He cannot see/talk/email or IM with her. If she pops in unannounced, he should be able to stand up to her and tell her this too if she keeps on pestering him. Yeah...guess I have to actually TELL him the obvious. Its funny, when she first emailed him (and he forwarded them to me), he said he felt physically ill because of the mess all of this caused. Guess he didn't realize that it was HIM that caused this mess! Quote: 2)Why didn't he tell her NO, DO NOT DROP BY. He had that option. Instead, he told her yes, drop by (I assume) and she did...Willingly. My point to him exactly. What did he say to that? He said that "he should have (told her no), that he didn't really think it through, and did not consider how wrong it was". Damn. Here I thought all along that right and wrong are fairly obvious. That it didn't require much 'thought' at all to do the right thing, ESPECIALLY after the ten months of HELL we've been through since this began. Quote: My response to that was....."This is exactly what bothers me. You don't feel right about something, but you do it anyway." I wonder how he expects me to think he'll EVER do the right thing!!! And what did he say when you said that? I'm guessing you got the bambi look. He knows...Deep inside he knows, but his actions seem like he can't be bothered to give 100% to you and the marriage. Damn close...he said "maybe you won't ever think I'll do the right thing". Well duh, so far you haven't! Maybe he just doesn't have the 'nads to own it, live with it, and fix it. Or maybe he just doesn't want to? I can use quotations for his responses because we mainly EMAIL each other (even though we're in the same house) because he cannot control his anger towards me if I question him or as he says, 'back him into a corner'. Luckily, our house is set up with an apartment on the lower level where I spend my time! Until he's willing to give the marriage 100% effort, things will stay this way. It's up to you on how much you're willing to put up with. I know you love him, he's your husband, and he does deserve a second chance. I just hope that is what HE wants too. Because his actions (from what you've said) aren't showing it. Ohhh, he's reflecting it on you. Which means he really doesn't "get it" yet. Has he actually taken responsibility for his actions? You're right, I do love him, he's my husband, and I'm trying to give him a second chance. Geez, I've sent him links to every single relevant page I've found, bought books, and sent countless emails detailing (in a non-accusatory manner) how I felt and what he needs to do for 'us.' He just keeps being 'angry man', 'uncommunicative man', and a host of other undesirables that make reconciliation nearly impossible. I just don't understand why he doesn't just admit that he doesn't want me. I get sooo down from feeling unworthy of even an attempt to 'make things right' with. I can't do this for 'us'. And I know that HE should be the one doing all the work! I've started losing weight again from all the stress here. At some point I will just need to truly give up, I know. I've tried to make him understand, but he just can't or won't see it. Everything is "his way", which means whatever thought he gets into his head becomes reality. When he says that "I won't let him fix this" it means - "I don't have to do anything because she won't LET me fix this". I've explained that his arrogance in believing he knows everything about everyone will not help the situation. He says he feels bad for becoming angry at me when I've expressed anger towards him for what he's done. But he does it every time. So I think his 'sorry' actually means something like 'excuse me' - you know kinda like what you say when you sneeze or something? In response, I've learned how NOT to say what I am feeling around him, and have let a lot of 'things' just go. I'm really learning how to detach myself from this relationship, more and more every day. It will make the inevitable a little easier, hopefully. Sometimes I think that if I could just get a sledgehammer and whack him on the head a few times, maybe he'd "get it". I don't know how he'd react in marriage counseling. I find it hard to believe that he'd tolerate it, given that he can't even get a grasp on the 'basics' of infidelity and its aftermath. I would be afraid that if an outsider were to point it out, he'd become overly-defensive and just quit. Of course, I guess that would be my answer, wouldn't it?
Chump64 Posted June 11, 2006 Posted June 11, 2006 Jonesgirly, I feel so bad for you. Do you feel strong enough to give him an ultimatum? IE, "We will go to marriage counseling together, OR I will file." His approach to fixing this is very half-assed. He sounds controlling and immature. I know in my husband's case, he needed the ultimatum to see that I was 200 percent serious about him stopping the bullsh*t, and immediately. Have you read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass?
Author jonesgirly Posted June 13, 2006 Author Posted June 13, 2006 Hey Chump I'm oh, so very strong enough to give him an ultimatum. I really have nothing to lose at this point, and I realize that. He's such an inconsiderate ass though. Sorry, just had to put that there. I find it increasingly difficult to tolerate the creepy way he behaves towards both myself, and others. I'm not even sure I want to remain with this person, especially now that I know he's not even capable of the honesty and faithfulness I deserve. I had to email him probably three times to explain how I wasn't mad that he talked to or saw his g/f, but rather, that he YET AGAIN made a very poor choice in allowing her to come up and 'visit' with him at work on Saturday. Its the stupidity of it all that just amazes me. How can a person be so damned ignorant? Of course, he emails me back that he's "sorry, and I won't talk to her again." THATS not my point! Does he not get that I don't even trust him to know which way he should turn out of the driveway each morning???? And he's not an idiot - he's working on his MBA right now too. I suppose this would be a case of 'selective stupid'. I've got sooo much bulls*** going on right now in my life too - we're hosting the luau for about 150 people in 6 weeks, our well has dried up and we need to have a new one drilled so I've need to get contractors in here to give us quotes and start dealing with the permits - BEFORE the party, I'm broke, my daughters car was totalled (fault of other driver) about a month ago and I need to get her deductible paid by the other guys insurance, my H is starting a new job which will allow him a whole new 'catalog' of possible 'special friends' from work, etc., and on and on. As usual, he was again tonight uncommunicative and defensive. He actually has the audacity to accuse me of being secretive, and that he always has to ask me whats going on. This was after I was chatting on the phone (with a sales call, no less) about my daughter being in college, getting her BS in nursing and her masters in business, RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. I hang up the phone, and he says "who were you talking to?" Of course, I started laughing and said it was a salesperson! He says, "well, you're always so secretive". Sometimes the irony of the situation just blows my mind - swear to god. And I know you know what I mean, Chump. I said to him that I NEVER EVER go into a different room to talk on the phone, I ALWAYS have conversations RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM (and I do!). I point out that HE is the one that has always left the room to talk on the phone, etc. He just doesn't get it. I suppose that if I was guilty of being a lying, secretive, whack job I'd act all like him too........but I'm not.
whichwayisup Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 Of course, he emails me back that he's "sorry, and I won't talk to her again." Bull! He's just going through the motions...So it seems, to get you off his back. I don't mean to sound negative, but I don't believe that he isn't going to talk to her again. He feels there's nothing wrong with him doing so, even if it upsets you and is so bad for the marriage. He's fooling himself if he thinks life will go on this way...Sadly, sooner or later you're gonna get fed up and say ENOUGH. He may not like how life will be without you one day... As usual, he was again tonight uncommunicative and defensive. He actually has the audacity to accuse me of being secretive, and that he always has to ask me whats going on. He's reflecting the blame...Which either means because HE can't be trusted and he feels because of that, you're going to do the same to him. Which you're not, yet he seems hellbent in throwing s*** your way so HE won't have to feel bad or feel guilty. He just doesn't get it. He doesn't want to get it because it means he has to DO instead say I will do. He's scared of change, making an effort and putting you first. He's selfish and not wanting to DO what is necessary to fix things 100% and it seems he'd rather have life go on as it is now. ... I'm sure in HIS mind all is fine and dandy, right?? Though it's not and so because of his ways of thinking and handling things (allowing the OW to visit him) is just making it all worse and he's done nothing to prove that he IS trustworthy.
joeyr812 Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 wow. here are my thoughts, which are probably wrong. First, I'm sure that he didn't tell HER no contact. Second, the baby is 6 months old, and this is the first time he's seen him or her. That tells me that he probably hasn't been staying in touch. and...he did forward that last email. So...I think this contact is driven by her and not by him. And...since he didn't tell her NO contact, she doesn't know the rules have changed. Second, I bet you that in his mind (and..I don't think he's right), he probably thinks he has changed. He probably thinks that a little bit of contact is OK, since he thinks he won't get involved again. So...he thinks you don't trust him. Doesn't sound like you have reason to. I think you have 2 choices. First, you could tell him it's time to set a rule w/ her. next time she makes contact, he has to tell her that it's off, no matter what. At this point, they have very little contact, he shouldn't care about her. He could get pissed because you don't trust him, so I'd bring it up calmly. Just tell him...she should not be important, and you're his wife, so do it. Second choice would be to just give him an ultimatum. If you ever find out that he contacted her, or she contacted him, you get half his s*** and that's that. that way, he doesnt' have to listen to you make a big deal out of it anymore.
Chump64 Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 If the OW is married, I think it's time her husband knows about the situation (including the continued contact). Another idea: When he forwards an email to you from the OW, reply to BOTH of them and spell out your concerns / ask them to quit corresponding. Or reply to him alone: "Dear Husband: As you know I asked you and Sarah to stop communicating because I think your relationship is inappropriate and it is a threat to the well being of our marraige. Either Sarah isn't aware of my request, or she is choosing to sidestep my wishes. This is my final request. I ask that you both abide by it." And CC her husband as well.
Author jonesgirly Posted June 14, 2006 Author Posted June 14, 2006 He really just doesn't get it. We had another looonnnngggg conversation this evening (mostly with me being less-than-happy). I will give him kudos for NOT getting angry and walking out on the discussion (yep, first time - 11 months after d-day). He keeps trying to blame-shift me. He says that "I" would say things like "you'll never change", or that "I won't accept that he's changed". Of course, I pointed out the fact that THREE days ago he had his girlfriend stop by at work to show him her baby! So the fact remains, that he is unable to make the 'right' choices when it comes to "us", or even "me" for that matter. And now, pretty much everyone around us is wondering why in the hell I stay with him! I just hate that he doesn't mind being seen by my friends and family as "a total jerk." I told him this, and reminded him that I would NEVER EVER disrespect him in front of his children (all 7 of them!) or friends. In addition, I pointed out that his five sons have learned how to treat 'women' or even just 'others' by emulating his behavior. He has been so frustrated with the way his sons' treat their girlfriends, and even HIM! Well, duh! What did they learn growing up? I also stated that I was 'done' with waiting around. All this time (11 months!) has done nothing but create more anger and bitterness because of his lack of 'attention' to the matter - the elephant in the living room. I really do feel like I am 'done' too, but I will give him credit for NOT walking out of the room (standard MO for him). I expressed my hurt, the reasons for my anger, and how I could not trust him to even make the simplest of choices in life. He would attempt to point out that I have said to him that "I don't depend on anyone". And of course, I had the rebuttal that he proved me right! I'm still thinking that he doesn't ''get it", but as always, I shall wait and see..........more to follow
joeyr812 Posted June 14, 2006 Posted June 14, 2006 Jones....is there any chance you're over reacting? the specifics that you gave of what he did.....yes.....he should have told her NOT to come to see him. But....he did tell you. and, like I said above, it sounds like he hasn't had contact w/ her at all. From what you said here...he normally gets up and leaves....I'm not saying that he's not wrong, but it sounds like you are accusing him of stuff over and over, and he's denying it over and over. You have to break that cycle. It sounds like he really hasn't seen her for months, but you referred to her as his "girlfriend". I'm not saying he's not wrong...I have no idea. But....it's obvious that the message isn't getting thru. You can give up, or you can try something different. Maybe you need to ask yourself; what would it take for you to trust him? Maybe there isn't anything he can do. Right now...he seems backed into a corner. You said he didn't leave the room, and that was a good sign....can you build on that?
whichwayisup Posted June 14, 2006 Posted June 14, 2006 Marriage counselling is the key here, for both of you. Each of you have to learn how to communicate and really listen to the other person...Both of you are frustrated, ALOT - And ofcourse it's not helping that your hubby is actling like what he did was no big deal. Another problem, he isn't feeling any consquences of his actions. I'm sure he figures you're not going to leave him and (once again) life is FINE the way it is. He's not "cheating physically" though he isn't doing all that's required to make YOU feel secure. With that being said, there has to be a point where you do have to trust him enough to make the right choice and he also has to realize that his actions are causing your reactions. Vicious circle...And until something is solved and changed (Hopefully for the better) things will be this way for a while. Take that talk as a positive thing. He needs that encouragement, so let him know how great it was that things didn't get out of hand. Baby steps...That's all you two can do for now. On a different note - GO out and have some fun with him! See a movie or go shoot some pool. Maybe lightening things up abit will help the intense energy between you two.
Author jonesgirly Posted June 15, 2006 Author Posted June 15, 2006 Yeh.. I've kinda been thinking that MC is going to be the only way out of this mess. Funny thing is, last night he brought up that very subject and said that I had previously stated that I "know how I feel". He had apparently taken this to mean that I would never, ever consider counseling. The amazing thing to me is that I honestly don't remember ever having that conversation, and if I did, it was probably a long time ago, back when the emotions were raw and crazy. The REALLY funny thing is that......apparently thats the only thing he 'remembers' me ever saying. Immediate amnesia set in when I had spoke of his personal ads, emails to other women, GF he had for over a year, secret email accounts, etc. Hmm..........seems to make things much easier in his mind huh? Truthfully, I'm thinking of starting IC for myself, just because I have lost any scraps of self-esteem I ever had, and no longer trust my own self to even make the determination of what I should do. I've read horror-postings here about crappy MC's that either 'poo-poo' the issues, or total undo any progress the couple has made. I guess we wouldn't fall into that second category WWIU...I know what you're saying, and I do want to take the 'leap of faith' that is required to begin trusting. We've been through a helluvalotta crap this past year, and I just can't understand why he would, THREE FREAKING DAYS AGO, think its okay to have the girl come up to his work! What in the hell kind of thinking is that? The problem with me attempting to 'trust' him, is that about every six weeks or so, I discover yet another 'thang'. Whether it be personal ad profiles, emails he sent to other women on the personal ad sites, an email he sent to his GF but deleted before he could send it to me, whatever. I just recently (past few days) found yet another secretr email account he has set up. He's really working on being a great, trustworthy, friend to me, isn't he? joey....I don't refer to her as his 'girlfriend' for any other reason than to not actually have to say her name. I've called her his 'special friend', too, but that seemed rather gay. Oh, and they have had email contact...not sure if there was any calls though. He was able to forward to me the emails back and forth, EXCEPT for one that was magically deleted. She emailed him again about 3 weeks ago, and he forwarded it to me, although he never forwarded 'his' reply. Not sure if he did or not, but assuming he did and 'deleted it before he could send it to me.' Your first reply hit it a little closer (i.e, he thinks things are fine, but hasn't really given me any reason to trust him), but the second one was a little off. Maybe if you're bored, you could read the story (there's a few threads to look through, but interesting) http://www.loveshack.org/forums/search.php?searchid=647825 Really...there's so much more detail there, the domestic violence arrest, the gun slingin' act, you'll be just amazed at the dysfunction in one household. He has only one emotion - anger, and you'll see it there. There really isn't anything to make me feel 'good' about this situation and I know it. My husband has betrayed my trust, disregarded my personal well-being, and doesn't seem to really give two s***s. I no longer have the security of an untainted relationship...something I've always wanted, and so did he (I thought). We've both been through a lot in our many years, but reconnected after our first meeting when we were just kids (14 years old). I guess I just though we were 'different'...hahahhaha, I know...EVERYBODY thinks that. But I really did, and I'm not young, and I'm not as naive as I seem to be. (maybe) WWIU...I did take that talk as a positive thing, and I really try to monitor my reactions and words I use. And thats fine, because apparently I'm much more evolved. What ticks me off is that he can just say whatever he wants, do whatever he wants, without consequence. I know its my responsibility to impose consequences, but he's such a blame-shifter, that we could end up divorced because he would 'decide' in his mind that 'I didn't want to fix it.' Truly, its amazing the arrogance he has when 'knowing' things about other people (its actually called 'wearing blinders' in my book). Sometimes when I look at him, I will think to myself....I accepted you, just for being 'you', because I loved you. I married you because you wanted me to, and I thought we'd always be together anyway. I did things for him because I wanted him to have a better relationship with children, his ex-wife, and my daughter too, because I wanted him to experience 'life.' I did things for him, simply because I loved him and also because I thought the feeling was reciprocated. Would I marry him now, knowing what kind of a person he really is? Oh hell no, and I doubt anyone would! He has said sarcastic things to me like "oh, everyone likes YOU", probably because I enjoy other people. He seems like such an angry, bitter, cold, and self-centered person now. If only I'd known then, what I know now........
whichwayisup Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 Ouch. Your situation really f**k'n sucks. And if I thought you couldn't handle it I'd say GET OUT NOW. But, I recognize something in you, that's in me. Faith...And patience. You'll stay until you can't take it anymore, and you'll realize that maybe one day you'd be better off without him and all this crazy s*** going on. Finding the right marriage counsellor is so important. Just like one on one therapy. If you can't open up and feel comfy with the person helping you, it's not going to work. Do some research, talk to friends or family, co-workers who may have used someone to help them. He does need one on one therapy too, though I doubt he'll go. Anger management!!!! The problem with me attempting to 'trust' him, is that about every six weeks or so, I discover yet another 'thang'. Whether it be personal ad profiles, emails he sent to other women on the personal ad sites, an email he sent to his GF but deleted before he could send it to me, whatever. I just recently (past few days) found yet another secretr email account he has set up. He's really working on being a great, trustworthy, friend to me, isn't he? a**h***! WTF. More proof that he really isn't thinking clearly and needs professional help. Serial cheater/liar. Or he is just a mean selfish person who is making a fool of you by making it seem like things are fine... Don't know what else to say, but I'm glad that you're seeing through his bullcrap. Don't stand for it. Stay strong!
Author jonesgirly Posted June 16, 2006 Author Posted June 16, 2006 Thanks WWIU...sometimes I just really need to vent here, and it helps that someone can see exactly what I'm trying to convey in my lengthy posts. I AM a very strong person, and would do anything to not burden my family with the awful reality of my living situation. I'm very close to my mother (since my fathers death and her subsequent remarriage), and even she sees that he's a less-than-nice person to others. It bothers me that she is worried about me and the situation I am in, but I do not 'let on' about this stuff. She doesn't yet know about the gf, the personal ads, the domestic violence charge, the suicide threats, etc. I know that we will truely be 'over' when I tell my mom the whole story. She wouldn't want me to be with such a hurtful person, and would never accept him with the same love and generosity she shows him now. The only person who really sees all of this is, sadly, my daughter. She was there at last years' party, and she's seen how he's become this 'dark cloud' in my world. I do not burden her with the gorey details, but rather, reassure her that I am fine and able to handle it. She has been very concerned for my safety in the past, but the last incident (where I called 911 and they arrested him), reassured her that I would NOT put up with it, and am perfectly able to handle 'things.' Even HE knows that a subsequent arrest or incident would land him in jail, WITHOUT the ability to be 'bailed out' by me. The county prosecutor told me that if he is ever involved in this type of incident in the future, there would be no 'choice' for me - that THEY would press charges (apparently, they could see his anger/violent demeanor). All of this crap he's dealt out has been as a result of everyone in his world seeing him as 'less than perfect.' He is much happier when he is able to find someone (like the 24 yr old g/f) who will just adore him, think he is the smartest guy in the world, and accept all of his advice as if he's some sort of 'god'. He knows that he's got 'issues' he hasn't dealt with, but he's only seen a couple of IC's since we've been together. Its funny, he always stops because he feels that they "dont' care". He has a real issue with being 'cared about' regardless of his behavior. Sounds kind of immature to me. The loss of respect from me and my daughter, I think, is what has really done him in. It is very difficult to respect a man, or a person for that matter, for behaving the way he has towards us. He not only shoved me around the night of the party last summer, but he also pushed my 19 yr old daughter to the ground. And in front of a LOT of people. She was LIVID with him when she found him shoving me around in the great room, and proceeded to give him a black eye when several guys tackled him in order to stop him from continuing to assault me. What a great memory - no wonder she worries about my safety
Bangles Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 I know that you have some type of feeling left for your H, although I'm not sure if it's love. I think after all that you have been through with this man any counselor that you see will tell you that this marriage should have ended long ago. I don't believe that keeping all the details from your daughter is healthy either. The only thing she has learned from you with all the trouble in your marriage is that when she has a relationship of her own that she can't talk to you about her problems just like you can't, or won't talk to you mother about yours. Maybe you think it's better that way but the little dirty secrets in the family closet have a way of getting out. There are stronger ways of showing your daughter that you can handle situations besides calling 911. What has she learned about you and her father in all this. Secrets are all. I came from a family of secrets. Now that most of them are out the damage is too late to be repaired. Family members are dead and there are very people left who can give the answers I need now. You don't have to live in a crisis-centered relationship where you spend every minute wondering what your H is up too. He knows every way to deceive you and play you and like a tru co-dependent you fall for every hook. Please break the cycle and get away from him. Open up some kind of communication with your child so she will see that you yes can take care of yourself and don't deserve to live like that. I wish the best for you and your family.
Author jonesgirly Posted June 17, 2006 Author Posted June 17, 2006 Bangles........ I should clarify that my daughter is mine from a previous marriage (my husbands step-daughter). She has just turned 20, and is in her second year at UofM. What may appear as me 'hiding' details of my marital strife is really more of a parental issue - not involving kids in the adult issues. The night she witnessed my husband shoving me around the house in front of others frightened her a great deal. She was concerned that "I" would think that "I" could handle him in any situation (he is much bigger and stronger than I am). I guess I should've explained that I did not tell her about the incident that prompted my call to 911, because it was during finals at school (enough stress for her at the time). I told her about it later, more to alleviate her fear that I would attempt to handle things 'on my own', rather than seek outside assistance. She explained that she appreciated me telling her this. And trust me, that girl has a very well-balanced view of relationships. She really is exceptional - she volunteered at a suicide hotline during high school (involving quite a bit of training), and is studying in the medical field at college. She doesn't believe in 'hiding' her feelings, or 'burying' issues, and is quite vocal when she feels strongly about something. I have absolutely no fear that she has turned out to be quite a self-sufficient young woman. Myreason for not blabbing about this to every friend and family member I have is quite simple - to spare us BOTH the embarrassment. I believe that when there is an on-going, full-blown, F-you affair going on that 'exposing' the perps is correct, but this was a totally different situation. There are no 'family secrets', I just prefer to not stress-out my mother by telling her how upset I am. There is no need, although she has suspected that things aren't 'perfect in fairyland' for a little while now. I really don't want her to think poorly of my husband, but if I decide to end this relationship, she will know every little detail I believe that co-dependency is an over-used and over-rated descriptor. If we all read books about 'it', we'd ALL be considered co-dependents. Although I used to 'allow', 'excuse', or 'tolerate' his little idiosyncrasies when I believed him to be a faithful husband, that is no longer the case. I know it may seem like I'm hanging on to the smoke after a candle is snuffed, but I am patient. I am forgiving. And I very much care for my husband as a person. I just keep looking for a reason to use those tools with him. I may reach a point when there will be no reason, and will move on. That will happen when I am ready for it. I've gained great insight from the opinions of others here on LS, yours included. There are days that I think I'm going crazy, and that maybe my thinking is off-base. Its great to hear from others telling me that 'yeah, you're crazy,' or 'no, you're feeling as you should be!.' Thank you for your good wishes for me and my family. I can't help but wonder what kinds of secrets your family kept from each other? How horrible to not be able to confront or ask the questions anyone needed to, to be able to move past the issue for themselves. I've seen people who already know the answers, but what they're really looking for is the answer to 'why?.'
Recommended Posts