Becoming Posted June 11, 2006 Posted June 11, 2006 I'm glad to see the good things this guy does, Walk, because until I read them I was with Art and Outcast on this one. I am married to someone somewhat like your guy, and the silent treatment drives me crazy. We've been in individual therapy and couples counseling for a year now and I can honestly say things are finally changing to where the relationship is good. But it wasn't always so. A year ago, it was intermittent hell. He was emotionally abusive and controlling from my point of view, but now I know that he was silent because, like your BF, he was confused as to what he was feeling and didn't know what to say. He had no self-awareness to communicate. So he acted like the 3-8-year-old he was emotionally. You need to read How to Live with a Passive-Aggressive Man by Scott Wentz (or something like that). It'll give you strategies to help you take care of yourself and help him grow by putting firm boundaries down regarding what you need and cannot tolerate and enforcing them, which is the only way it'll change. Warning: things may get worse before they get better. But stay the course. Even if it means he doesn't change, you will--by learning how to stay true to yourself and growing strong enough to leave if you need to. You've got a lot going for you, Walk. You're more together than this guy--no judgment of him. But you're the older one in this relationship, and it'll be up to you to initiate and follow-through with change.
Author Walk Posted June 12, 2006 Author Posted June 12, 2006 Don't have much time to respond. Passive-Aggressive sounds right. I've read a million articles, books, and internet sites on narcissists and emotionally abusive relationship. Those don't fit. At least, no more than they fit me, or my family, and my family has never been "abusive". I'll try the passive aggressive book, could be the way. Thank you. I'll respond to the rest of the posts later. Thank you again for your repsonses. You need to read How to Live with a Passive-Aggressive Man by Scott Wentz (or something like that). It'll give you strategies to help you take care of yourself and help him grow by putting firm boundaries down regarding what you need and cannot tolerate and enforcing them, which is the only way it'll change.
Sapiens Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 So you believe that ignoring and the silent treatment is how you communicate in a relationship ? Um, I think you are missing the point. She is calling it the silent treatment. From the looks of it to me, the guy is giving thought to what he is feeling and will talk when he figures something out. I am sure he doesn't feel the need to run to her and tell her all that he feels and that he may be confused. If he does that, he knows he will look weak to her. You know, the irony is that women want men to "communicate" yet when we communicate women will misinterpret our simple communication. e.g. if he says: "I am going out for a walk," it means he is going out for a walk. She hears "I am going out for a walk" but will continue with, "Why is he going out for a walk? He doesn't love me, if he loves me he would sit here and tell me how he feels, why does he have to take a walk... blah, blah, blah...." In effect over analysing, twisting and changing the simple meaning of our words and actions. -Sapiens
Sapiens Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 So you believe that ignoring and the silent treatment is how you communicate in a relationship ? Um, that is not communication, it is punishment. But if I don't have anything to say and tell you I don't have anything to say. Is it still punishment? Is this also how you Handle your women ? Um, no. I just beat and kick them until they do my will. j/k I grew up in a household where my Dad would use the silent treatment on his wife and kids.. I had seen him not talk to his wife for 30 days.. and he would go weeks sometimes without talking to me .. And I worked with him.. The silent treatment isn't about love.. is is about power and control and abuse Let me tell you.. even today 20 years after his death his kids still feel the pain This is your problem not your fathers. The guy did his best to cope the best way he knew how to cope. Since you recognize what he did wrong, it is up to you to step up and do better. Don't live in the past and be tied down to the chains of regret and pain. This means he still has power over you, so if he was so bad why are you letting him still control your feelings until now. Move on and free yourself from his "abuse." -Sapiens
Art_Critic Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 This is your problem not your fathers. The guy did his best to cope the best way he knew how to cope. I have no words for your obviously uneducated opinion.. and I don't live in the past.. that was a long time ago..
Art_Critic Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 Too bad, I was looking forward to get "E DU CA TED." Thanks for making my point...
Tinman Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 I think people are jumping the gun quite a bit by leaping on the "emotionally abusive" diagnosis. It IS a form of punishment. And the silence also means "you're not worthy of talking to". The silent treatment is intentional, cruel and a hurtful thing to do to someone. Only those who have issues themselves to do this to others. Yes, the Silent Treatment IS a bad thing and it IS often used by the passive-aggressive. HOWEVER, not all silence=The Silent Treatment. Once again, silence does != the Silent Treatment. What's the difference you might ask? Intent. When you're intentionally staying silent to make your partner uncomfortable or to place the onus of resolving the situation on them, that's the Silent Treatment. However, it's not the only reason someone might be silent when they're upset. Me personally, when I'm upset I don't always want to talk about it right then and there. Especially, if I'm not exactly sure why I'm so upset or if I find myself angry at something that would normally have only been a minor annoyance. In those cases, it's not something I want to talk about until I've sorted out what's going on with me. For that matter, I probably won't be in the mood for talking about most things because: [A] I'm still angry about it followed by.. I know I shouldn't be so irritated about it so I'm embarrassed/mad at myself and thus doubly irritated and finally [C] I worry that attempts to talk it out at this stage will be fruitless since things are so muddled and that attempts to communicate will turn into a hopeless jumble of mutual hurt feelings and resentment. What does all of this mean and or where does it all originate? Poor or at least relatively incompatible communication styles. Even two generally good communicators do not always communicate well when in a relationship. It takes learning special skills and techniques for dealing with problems within that relationship. End result if left "unattended?" She feels shut out feels hurt because she thinks I'm giving her the "Silent Treatment." Meanwhile, she's still pushing when I'm feeling prickly and thus I resent the intrusion. Frequently the roles are reversed with much the same results. Now, back to the OP. From what you wrote it sounds like he has some issues going on in his life and is doing a piss-poor job of dealing with his frustrations and thus, is taking him out on you. I'm not saying this to excuse his behavior but because understanding the source of a problem is the first step to dealing with it. In turn, it sounds like he's feeling that you just "don't get" why he's angry and so is trying to avoid the issue to prevent needless conflict and hurting you. In short, you've already nailed the main problem. Communication. You two don't seem to communicate well in conflict and it seems like both of you realize this. The solution? Talk about it. Now, for starters I don't mean "talk about what the problems in the relationship are." That's the advanced stuff that you try once you've already learned how to communicate with each other, when you're angry/hurt. That's right, talk about talking. Don't talk about the bike, the dishes, your school or his job. Talk about the problems you two have talking. The things you say that you feel he just doesn't get and he can talk about the things he thinks you "thought you said" but really didn't. Then reverse it. For starters, his letter/email idea sounds like a good one. Oftentimes it can be much easier to communicate what your feeling in writing. You get a chance to re-do several drafts and really try to clarify what you're trying to say. Write it down, rewrite it, then leave it for a day. Repeat. It's a slow process but worth it. After you've both done this a few times then you can start trying to talk about talking. Finally, take what you've learned from that and go back to writing to deal with the current problems. Rinse, repeat. It sounds like a lot of work and it is. Some couples naturally communicate well. Some couples just "pick it up" after awhile. Many couples however have relatively incompatible communication styles. It doesn't mean that they're incompable couples, it just means it takes extra work.
Author Walk Posted June 12, 2006 Author Posted June 12, 2006 These are questions from a site that deals with emotional abuse. When my bf and I are arguing then everything seems a worse. The bad times seem longer and more often, and what was annoying becomes intolerable to me. Do you feel that your partner controls your life? No. Do you feel that your partner does not value your thoughts or feelings? Yes Will your partner do anything to win an argument, such as put you down, threaten or intimidate you? No. In fact, this last argument we had he apologized first. Does your partner get angry and jealous if you talk to someone else? Are you accused of having affairs? No. He encourages me to have friends, see my family, talk to other students in class. Do you feel that you cannot do anything right in your partner's eyes? No. I make myself feel that way. Do you get mixed messages, such as the reason you are abused is because he loves you? No. Are you told that no one else would want you, or that you are lucky your partner takes care of you? He's said I could have any man I wanted. Do you have to account for every moment of your time? No. Only out of respect for him, I share where I'll be and estimated time frame. When you try to talk to your partner about problems, are you called names such as bitch or nag? Never. Are you prevented from going to work or school, or from learning English? He encouraged me to go back to school and finish my degree. He offered to take on the bills in order for me to do this. Even though I initially thought it would take 5 years, he willingly accepted that. Does your partner threaten to withdraw your sponsorship or send you back to your country of origin? No. Even when pissed as hell at me, he'll give me cash without my asking if he knows I'm going somewhere I might need some. He worries I won't call him, if we're arguing, and I need help with something. A flat tire, or accident or something. He worries about my welfare even when we argue. If you wish to spend money, does your partner make you account for every penny, or say you don't deserve anything? Never. My money is my money. He's never asked for a dime. He shares his willingly, and has always stated that he wants me to spend my money on myself. After an argument, does your partner insist that you have sex as a way to make up? No. Does your partner blame you for everything that goes wrong? Yes and no. Arguments he gets defensive. I do too, really badly. But he always says he's not assigning blame, only attempting to explain how he saw the situation. That it takes two to argue, and he is as much to blame as I am. Are you unable or afraid to make decisions for yourself? No. Do you do anything you can to please your partner or not upset him? It's who I am. I'm the same way with everyone. Do you make excuses for your partner's behaviour? No. But I don't want people jumping him as a freak when they don't even know him. Are you forgetful, confused or unable to concentrate? Whenever I get emotionally upset. No matter what or who I'm upset by. Have you noticed changes in your eating, sleeping, alcohol or drug use? I drink less then I did before I met him. I eat better. And I sleep just as much as I used to. Have you lost interest or energy to do the things you used to? I get depressed normally. Not specifically because of him. Just am this way. Do you feel sick, anxious, tired or depressed a lot of the time? No. Have you lost contact with your friends, family or neighbours? No. Have you lost self-confidence and feel afraid that you could not make it alone? No. Not having a source of income makes me feel I can't just up and leave. But if the Marine corps would pay me for the fricking time they make me do, then I wouldn't have to worry about money so much. If employers didn't discriminate against reservists, then I could've had a part time job. *** However, I'm not retarded, or stupid, or blind. I do have a backbone, and have used it on several occasions in my past, and present. I'm an extremely sarcastic and dark person who does my best to not let those tendencies out to hurt others. I happened to find someone with the same set of qualities, who also does his best not to harm others. However, at stressful times, or periods of extreme emotion, both of us have a tendency to allow our nastier portions out on a long leash. We have the same drive to create a better environment. If someone would like to give some suggestions on ways in which to better communicate when a) he's stuck in his own head, b) I'm stuck in my head, and c) we aren't talking. Then I would love to hear it. If you would rather label my relationship as abusive, and brush off my current problem with a dismissive post on how you've "tried to tell me" how abused I am, and how I don't ever listen.. then that's okay too. It is helpful to me to vent my anger someplace other than at my bf when I'm upset. I have a terrible temper, and it is far better for me to rant and rave on here until I can cool off enough to talk to my bf rationally. Thank you again for your time, and your suggestions. I have taken them into consideration, and spent many, many hours learning about the signs and symptoms of abuse, mental illness, and disfunctional relationships. I am still not convinced this is an abusive relationship. I do realize there are abusive qualities that are present, but feel my bf realizes those behaviors do not work in a relationship. And I can list many instances of change that have occured in the course of this relationship that prove his willingness to learn better ways to resolve conflict. Maybe one day down the road I may look back and cast him into an evil light. But until then, it is my choice to stay and fight for this as long as there is obvious willingness in him to make this relationship great.
Tinman Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 Just for the record, while in the previous post I put most of the responsibility for the poor communication on the boyfriend that's only because we only have one side. Even when most of the "blame" can be placed on one party the communication problems usually run two-ways. What you think you're saying isn't what he thinks he's hearing and visa versa.
Author Walk Posted June 12, 2006 Author Posted June 12, 2006 Just for the record, while in the previous post I put most of the responsibility for the poor communication on the boyfriend that's only because we only have one side. Even when most of the "blame" can be placed on one party the communication problems usually run two-ways. What you think you're saying isn't what he thinks he's hearing and visa versa. Thank you Tinman. It's nice to get some advice, ideas, that is more than "get out of the relationship". Also, I tried to change #2. up there, but you beat me on the post. SHould say. No. He does ask my opinions thoughts and feelings on everything. Read it wrong.
Tinman Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 Thank you Tinman. It's nice to get some advice, ideas, that is more than "get out of the relationship". Also, I tried to change #2. up there, but you beat me on the post. SHould say. No. He does ask my opinions thoughts and feelings on everything. Read it wrong. No worries, and I wouldn't sweat #2 either way. In most relationships there will be periods where someone will feel that their opinions are not being valued. It's only when it's a regular thing that it becomes an issue. As far as advice, it probably got lost in my over lengthly post but I would definitely try the writing thing. It's worked well in the past for me, both when I've written the letters and received them. Write down what your frustrations are with trying to communicate with him. Remember to write from a standpoint of your own perceptions. Don't say, "you're doing this" but rather say, "I feel you're doing this" or "when you do this I interpret as meaning this." This way allows you to be both, more accurate, and at the same time, gives him a better sense of why certain things bother you. For example, rather then saying, "I don't like it when you give me the silent treatment" say, "when you don't talk I feel like you're giving me the silent treatment and that hurts because I feel you're punishing me."
Sapiens Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 You know, I get the feeling that Walk is taking advantage of this guy and she is just looking for some gratuitous pity. This guy cooks, cleans and pays the bills, while this self-serving person takes advantage of him and then complains that he does not "communicate." Oh Please! I know parasites that have more gratitude than that, at least they know what they are. -Sapiens
Tinman Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 You know, I get the feeling that Walk is taking advantage of this guy and she is just looking for some gratuitous pity. This guy cooks, cleans and pays the bills, while this self-serving person takes advantage of him and then complains that he does not "communicate." -Sapiens It sounds like she appreciates him a great deal but there are problems in the relationship. The things he does are great but they are not the relationship. I'm sure they are all things that she appreciates but alone, they don't equal a strong relationship. A strong relationship can survive without all of the above, but not without communication. That is what seems to be lacking here. And not just on his part. From what she's written it sounds like he also feels that communication is one of their big problems. So, since both parties seem to feel the main problem here is communication, why don't we focus on helping them with that. Anyway, bedtime for me. Back later.
Sapiens Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 It sounds like she appreciates him a great deal but there are problems in the relationship. The things he does are great but they are not the relationship. I'm sure they are all things that she appreciates but alone, they don't equal a strong relationship. A strong relationship can survive without all of the above, but not without communication. That is what seems to be lacking here. And not just on his part. From what she's written it sounds like he also feels that communication is one of their big problems. So, since both parties seem to feel the main problem here is communication, why don't we focus on helping them with that. Anyway, bedtime for me. Back later. I agree with you Tinman, you are right. Also, I am willing to bet good money she will leave this guy once she gets a degree for someone that will actually abuse her. And like the cliche goes, then she will know how good she had it. This guy sounds like a good man, unfortunately he will become damage goods after this experience. -Sapiens
hotgurl Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 Typical woman, you need to get the last word huh? -Sapiens Art critic is a guy. Plus some one the people who say he is abusive etc have been here since Walk started posting about this guy about a year ago and there is a definte pattern. He frequently plays mind games with her. Like telling her to get him coffee when he walks in the door and then when she does it yelling at her. Or yelling at her when she was talking to a guy friend she ran into at a coffee house then spending time with his female friends. He also seems to have rigid rules about sex roles and with sex in general. The point is Walk tries to please him and be a goof GF but he keeps chaning what he wants so she can never be enough.
Sapiens Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 he keeps chaning what he wants so she can never be enough. LOL, good man. Do you think if he became predictable she would stay with him? Besides once the present needs are taken care of, i.e. her school. -Sapiens
Pantero Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 My bf is now pissy with me, and I supposed I understand why, but a large part of me is pissed back at him. My bf got a new crank for his bike, and you have to adjust the derailer so the chain will pop into the different gears again. Bike shop guy was telling my bf about it, and I know (basically) how to adjust them so I let him know it wasn't anything big, we could do it at home. Ok. We get home, he gets the new parts on, goes to adjust the derailer, and it's getting worse and worse. Not that the bike was every adjusted properly to begin with.... but he rides around for 2 minutes, tells me he's done with it. (Basically he had two gears that worked. Out of 18.) I suggest we go for a short ride, just around the block. He says no. Starts going inside. So I started fiddling with it, trying to get it so he could use all gears.... Granted, I screwed it up more before getting it to work correctly, but he got pissy before I got it right. Now he's sulking upstairs. Whatever. The bike works the way it should now. Actually shifts into ALL the gears, not just stuck in the one on the middle. I only did it because I want him to have an enjoyable time riding the bike. If he hates it, then he's never going to want to go with me. To his benefit, I know I hate it when people mess with my stuff, but he said he didn't know how to fix it. I do. He asked for help at the beginning. Am I supposed to just pretend I don't know how to get it to work in order to save his masculinity? Be the stupid girl who don't know nothing bout no mashinary. I fixed mountain bikes for 4 years. Everything on them. It's been a couple years since I've really done much with them, but it just takes a minute to remember how it was done. But I'm the bad guy. Can't tell you how many times I have men take over something from me that I was more then capable of doing myself. But you do it to a guy, and they act like little spoiled children. They pout, scream, get angry.... fine. screw it. I'm just irritated right now. I'm stressed and unhappy with school and life in general. My bf quit his job last Friday, and he's been moody. He's making comments that just piss me the hell off, and I'm supposed to be understanding and shrug them off... And the last two days he's telling me our sex life has been dull for a while now. That I don't put enough effort into it. I don't even want to HAVE sex lately, and I'm still putting everything I have into it. But hell, if I told him how unmotivated towards sex I am right now, then he'd be hurt, and I'd have to soothe his ego. And part of it is because I'm stressed, but a large part is because of these f***ing comments he makes! He was ragging on me for not doing the dishes cause "you only spend 6 hours a week in class". Yeah. Ok... It's really 15/wk, but that doesn't take into consideration the HOURS outside of class. Its friggin' summer semester. 12 chapters of programming in 3 weeks. Guess that's easy for normal people. I'm retarded though. I must be since the instructor treats me like that too. But then the bf says he shouldn't have to do the dishes because he put in 2 years of 90 hour weeks. That he deserves a vacation. I'm going insane! I hate my life right now. Not just a little, I'm really failing to find any value in my life at this moment. It sounds like both of you are going through tough times in your lives and he's taking it out on you. Communication can go a long ways here. He needs to start doing some more of it and so do you. I'm curious - how long have you two been together? It sounds like you two have been an item for some time (i.e. way past the Honeymoon Phase). And what kinds of comments does he make? If he says something out of line, you need to let him know about it...hard as it may be, it'll end up hurting a lot of things. Trust me. I've let things go and I've had an ex that let things go until it snowballed and went out of control and thus, here I am typing away.
brightskies Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 I agree. And I'm touchier than I probably should be about anything I perceive as being ignored because that is how my professors are treating me this semester. So instead of taking a deep breath and taking it on myself to start the conversation, I refused to even initiate talking, then got more and more upset he wasn't starting it. He keeps his promises. He compromises. And if I say "I need", then it's done. No questions asked. Even if it causes him immense discomfort.There are a million reasons I choose to stay. I could give you lists and lists of great things that would make most women on here wish their SO's would even once do those things, and yet my bf will do them frequently. He brings me coffee upstairs while I'm studying, and refills it during the evening. He makes me breakfast and dinners, because he knows I hate to cook. He will spend his last dollar on me if I so much as hint that I kind of want something. He suggests we go visit my parents, even though he's uncomfortable around them. In between classes he'll bring me coffee, or food, if I say I'm tired or hungry. But most importantly, he wants to change how we handle disagreements and problems in communications. It wasn't me saying we had to change this. He brought it up without me saying anything along those lines. He asks for my thoughts, opinions and ideas on how to create a healthier relationship. How to improve on the areas we're having problems in. That's invaluable to me. A man who is willing to work to make the relationship better. Someone who realizes that there's something wrong, and is actively seeking a solution, not just hiding his head under the covers until it all goes away. I was upset about this. Sometimes feel he doesn't understand how difficult the college classes are. Or rather, how hard they are for me. To his credit, he's been cooking all the meals. We talked a little last night about this. In a more rational manner. He doesn't understand how it's punishment toward me. He said he was willing to talk if I had wanted to talk to him, but that he didn't have anything to say at the time. He was confused as to what was making him so upset, and why I would just grab his bike and start messing with it, and he didn't want to start a discussion when he didn't understand his thoughts and feelings. I tried a few different ways to get him to understand how it wasn't pleasant to be around him when he's like that. That he's withholding as a form of punishment. He didn't understand it. I don't know how to explain how it makes me feel, so I don't think I did a very good job communicating why I feel its punishment. He said he realizes I don't like it, but doesn't know what he's supposed to do if he gets in a situation like that. I didn't have any answers for that. Glad to hear there are many good things in this relationship --- I figured that you're too smart to stay for no reason. With that said, both your conflict resolution styles need some tweaking. I understand how the non-response or perceived stonewalling can be very frustrating: I had to deal with this with a former bf. While the poor man was quiet because he was still sorting things out in his head, I'd become more and more upset because I thought he was just ignoring me. Trouble is, he didn't say what was going on and I just assumed (you know how assuming can cause problems!) certain things so the situation would become worse than it actually was. In this case, it might be best to divert your attention elsewhere and take many deep breaths to calm down so you can talk when you're both more cool-headed. And actually SAY this to him so that there's no confusion, "Honey, we're both really p*ssed off right now; can we talk when we're both calmer?" Or, something to that effect. As for your people-pleaser tendencies --- I know how it is when you care about someone and you want to make him happy and comfortable. But overdoing it can undermine some of the power balance in the relationship and can lead to some loss of respect for you. Don't mother him. You don't want to be over-accomodating to the point where you bend over backwards for Every. Little. Thing. Obsequiousness isn't attractive. It just makes you seem spineless. Let him ask you for what he wants sometimes; don't give indiscriminately. It sounds like you BOTH have the tendency to over-extend yourselves. Watch this --- you can eventually run yourself down and it can cause you to resent your partner. It's better to say when you've given enough and say, "Ok, I need a little break for myself." The better you take care of yourself, the better you can take care of your partner when he needs it. Don't assume you know everything he wants. It's good to care about what he likes and doesn't like; but if he's having a bad day, you might try give him some room. And actually VERBALIZE your INTENTION, so again, nothing is assumed and there's no confusion, "I can see you've had a rough day; just let me know when you'd like some company," or something like that. Encourage him to do the same. It's important to be able to connect and disconnect without causing undue distance, and timing those disconnections as needed. This should be especially helpful since you both live together and sometimes personal space can become difficult to have. This isn't about being whiney and over-talking the relationship to death --- it's just about being able to speak your minds without making everything a freak-out session and to minimize confusion and unnecessary hurt on both sides.
brightskies Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 You know, I get the feeling that Walk is taking advantage of this guy and she is just looking for some gratuitous pity. This guy cooks, cleans and pays the bills, while this self-serving person takes advantage of him and then complains that he does not "communicate." Oh Please! I know parasites that have more gratitude than that, at least they know what they are. -Sapiens You might consider reading up on the history of her relationship with her bf before you pass such harsh judgment. She's not just complaining; she's asking for outside help because she wants to work things out with him.
Tinman Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 I had to deal with this with a former bf. While the poor man was quiet because he was still sorting things out in his head, I'd become more and more upset because I thought he was just ignoring me. Right on the money; I've been that guy. It sounds like you BOTH have the tendency to over-extend yourselves. Watch this --- you can eventually run yourself down and it can cause you to resent your partner. It's better to say when you've given enough and say, "Ok, I need a little break for myself." The better you take care of yourself, the beter you can take care of your partner when he needs it. Double bingo. I didn't think of this but it sounds like it could well be a contributing factor. It is easily possible to have a relationship where both parties feel they are giving more then their share and thus start to resent their partner. If good communication/resolution skills are not in place this will lead to simmering resentment [i need a thesarus] which, if not expressed, will find its way out in petty outbursts and overreactions. Well said.
jessssss Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 walk, how are things? some of posts i definitely agree with, some women (me included) try to over do things and it can make things worse in a relationship. what i mean is over analyze fights and over analyze silent treatment, when you're in the heat of the moment it's easy to do and the more often teh bf does it and the more often the bf sees that it can really get to you then he's going to do it more and more (this can go for gf too) i think that he knows he's getting to you with the silent treatment and in most fights both parties wnat to "win" so he is doing what he can to win, that sounds weird but maybe you can understand what i'm saying. i know when my bf and i fight we both have bad tempers...i flare up at him when he's being quiet and needs his time, if i coud just walk away it'd make things so much better...but i can't...i think they do it just to get us all hyped up...when i do it to him he has a way of not letting me do the silent treatment...he knows what gets under my skin...tha'ts part of a relationship i think. knowing what buttons to push and when to and when not to. everyone fights. there is no question about that. when the "honeymoon phase" is over then this is the normal thing to happen. i know you have helped me with this before walk and i wish i could help you more but i thin tehre are some great posts with great advise. as for the posts to just leave him...that's only for quitters. i think you are a wise enough person to know when something is good for you and when it's not. i'm rambling but i just wanted you to know that i back you and think you are asking the right questions and doing the right thigns. just need to work on communication and that, i think, is the hardest thing to "master" good luck...keep us updated! pm me if you want
Becoming Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 One of the things I've had to learn is what to do with myself when met with silence from H who needs time and space to figure out what's going on with him. For various reasons, this takes a lot of time for him. It's much better when I give him that space because we get in stupid, stupid arguments otherwise with him lobbing things out at me like the guy on the castle wall in Monty Python's Holy Grail. It'd be comical if I weren't getting hit by dead chickens. ANYWAY . . . Once I figured out that he's not playing mind games with me (though there have been those out of his sense of powerlessness up against me who seems to know myself and be able to articulate my emotions very well), I didn't act like such an ass chasing him around trying to force him to talk to me. I just use the time to read or clean vigorously to get my own anxiety out. Or run or go to the gym. Or write on LS. Instead of focusing on what he's doing, I started focusing on me and my emotions and dealing with what from my past (my father's alcoholism that rendered him non-existent) made me get so upset with his withdrawal. But what helps us is some kind of agreed upon signal that serves as a way of communicating that we need a time out. I need this, too. What helps me is him telling me how long the time out needs to be so that I know he's not abandoned me. I then know how long to do something else, and if he needs longer, he negotiates for it at that time. This is respectful of both of our needs. During the time out, HE is responsible for figuring out what's going on with him, just as I am. What has happened in the past is that he used the time to come back and ARGUE his point with me, trying to change my perceptions instead of honor them and explain what he perceived so that we could rationally work through our differences in a way that is mutually satisfying. OR he counted on me to tell him what he was feeling and then argued with me when I inevitably got it wrong. If we're always responsible for the feelings of the relationships, our guys never have to do the emotional work they need to do in order for the relationship to be good. A passive-aggressive is such because s/he feels powerless to affect things otherwise. But they can be passive in changing because everyone else will do the work they need to do for them. Really--get the book.
Author Walk Posted June 16, 2006 Author Posted June 16, 2006 Sorry for not replying sooner. It's been a rough few days. My grandpa died and my dad tore his leg up. He can't walk, my mom is devastated by her dad's death. I want to say, Thank you! for the honest replies and for the support. Remember to write from a standpoint of your own perceptions. Don't say, "you're doing this" but rather say, "I feel you're doing this" or "when you do this I interpret as meaning this." This way allows you to be both, more accurate, and at the same time, gives him a better sense of why certain things bother you. When we're both able to calm down, we do use the "I am feeling..." approach toward communication. Or words like.. "I understand how you could see it that way, but this is how I see it....". Our communication in that regard is good. when my bf and i fight we both have bad tempers...i flare up at him when he's being quiet and needs his time, if i coud just walk away it'd make things so much better...but i can't...i think they do it just to get us all hyped up...when i do it to him he has a way of not letting me do the silent treatment...he knows what gets under my skin...tha'ts part of a relationship i think. This is the same problem my bf and I have. That initial period of time when we're both upset. I need something to null those out right away. Get us back to a more calm and rational mindset as quickly as possible. Not sure how to do that though and let both of us maintain some modicum of dignity. Once we're over the worst of the anger, we really don't have a problem talking things out, and repairing whatever damage occured. 9 times out of 10 we come out of it with a better understanding of each other and a stronger relationship. A passive-aggressive is such because s/he feels powerless to affect things otherwise. But they can be passive in changing because everyone else will do the work they need to do for them. Really--get the book. I did some research into the passive aggressive, and it sounds like both of us react this way. I will look into getting the book. Hopefully it will give me some ideas on how to break out of it for myself, and helping us solve our differences better. Thank you! It might even help in the professional world too, I've known my share of passive aggressive bosses and employee's.
Becoming Posted June 16, 2006 Posted June 16, 2006 Sorry about your Grandpa and your Dad. Blessings of strength to you to help out during this trying time.
Author Walk Posted June 16, 2006 Author Posted June 16, 2006 You know, I get the feeling that Walk is taking advantage of this guy and she is just looking for some gratuitous pity. This guy cooks, cleans and pays the bills, while this self-serving person takes advantage of him and then complains that he does not "communicate." Oh Please! I know parasites that have more gratitude than that, at least they know what they are. I agree with you Tinman, you are right. Also, I am willing to bet good money she will leave this guy once she gets a degree for someone that will actually abuse her. And like the cliche goes, then she will know how good she had it. This guy sounds like a good man, unfortunately he will become damage goods after this experience. I could see how you would come to these conclusions. However, we made an agreement prior to my going back to college. I get financial needs taken care of, he gets his needs taken care of. It sounds cold, but both of us needed to ensure that neither of us were taken advantage of. Trust me when I say he gets an equal or greater value in return for his financial contribution. He cooks because he wants to. I've tried everything to get him to let me cook for him. Very rarely he'll be okay with it. He said its something he wants to do, that it makes him feel like he's providing for me, that it helps him relax, that it makes him feel good because he created soemthing... And he hates my cooking. He cooks because he wants to. It'd be idiotic to believe that I would have any power to make him cook if he didn't want to. He's a hundred and 20lbs heavier than I am and a good foot and some inches taller. Are you implying that I could "force" him to cook if he didn't want to? That's rather funny. I could see how you would assume I'm a parasite. Believe me though... the man has no qualms about dumping a girl if he feels taken advantage of. The fact that he is still here, and still attempting to provide financially proves that he is not being taken advantage of. When he begins to feel he is, he brings that up, and we work out a solution. Both of our needs fluxuate, and sometimes one of us feels we give more than the other. It's still 50/50 even if it's not dealing with strickly just financial. Does something you've given have to be returned in exactly the same fashion in order to be equal? If you've helped your friend build a porch, does he have to help you build a porch in order for it to be equal? Or could he pay you for your time? Or maybe he helped pay for people to move you? Would that be worthless because it's not the exact same action as you provided? Either way, I get something I need. Financial support to pursue a goal. He gets something he needs, with absolute assuredness it will be met. It's not society's norm, but it works well for us. Sapien... Ask some questions prior to making your assumptions.
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