HolyCrapNotMe Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Ok.. I have looked over some of the threads and I am not finding what I need. I am not even sure I am posting in the right place, but here it goes. About a year and half ago, I was going through an ugly divorce from a very abusive man. It had taken a lot for me to walk away but I finally built up my self-esteem and decided I was worth more than that. At the end of my divorce, I ran into an old friend from high school. We had started a relationship back then (over 14 years ago) but it ended abruptly when he had to leave the state. We had dinner, went out a few times, and that old flame was rekindled. He said he had divorced his wife over five years ago and that he had been dating women on and off but had such bad experiences that he swore off woman and focused on his career and retiring at 45. With the exception of a few small red flags (ok HUGE red flags like a 1 year old with his "ex wife", I know...I never got a real explanation, I just figured it was like my situation where I was still involved with my ex over the years even when we split, or never being able to call his house only his cell, or certain times of the day he was always unavailable, taking phone calls outside to be "polite", or never meeting his friends, coworkers, or family even though we had been seeing each other for almost a year, or never going to his house...etc) he seemed like a great guy, opened the doors, paid for dinner, called every day. He even told me he loved me and that he had never felt like this about any other woman except me. Oh yeah, and his ex-wife was a mean, psycho woman, that he had stayed with her as long as he did out of obligation to his three children. Anyway... I fell for it, I mean he was so great back in high school, people don't become evil over time right? Besides, that good karma for sticking by my ex for over 12 years was coming back and the man of my dreams was here to make up for all the crap I had put up with. Love was great and we were making plans to marry and move to another state in about 10 years, retire in 15, and fish all day and enjoy each other. I had even started real estate appraisal classes and increasing my savings in addition to my regular auditing job to ensure I could retire in 15 years. So...fast forward to yesterday. I was surfing the web and came across the court records for my county online. Being the snoop I am, I decided to browse the records for people I knew. I found out he had a current case (next hearing next month) going where the company that financed his car is trying to repossess it. WHAT THE...? He told me he had a court case going but gave me some detailed story about how it was related to a consulting job he had done in which his client had refused to pay. He always gave me the impression that he was very financially stable and even seemed indignant that I would even think of going paying my own way. Looking at the detail of the records showed that he had made a attempt to dismiss the case under the protections of bankruptcy. WHAT THE...??? So...I decided ok...this is not good. I needed more information. I am sure it was a while back and he was just ashamed and didn't want to tell me. There had to be a perfectly logical explanation, right? To make a really long story short. He doesn't own any of the property he said he did, he is not in real estate appraisal (at least not licensed), he is having current problems with the IRS, and he filed a joint bankruptcy in February of this year with his WIFE! HOLY CRAP THIS IS NOT HAPPENING TO ME!!!! That filing was just four months ago! I have been sleeping with this guy...unprotected in some cases (I know, I know) for more than six months!!! What's sad is that with all the crap, I don't think he is a loser because of his financial status... stuff happens and men have egos. He is a loser because he is a L I A R!!!! So...to the question. Should I confront him with what I know? Do I need to give him an explanation as to why I want him to lose my number and forget he even knew me? Is it a waste of time to lecture him about being honest in a relationship and why his being a liar cost him? Am I morally obligated to tell his wife? UGGGHHH! I am just glad I found out now when it is easier for me to make a clean break. I'll admit, I almost feel a little guilty for wanting to end it after I said that I loved him... I thought I could go through hell and high water for him as long as he didn't hit me or treat me meanly. Am I crazy? I will miss his company. I hate that my dream bubble had been burst! Sorry about this post...I am disappointed and don't have many other options for venting, except cursing him out...and that is not me...Maybe someone can share how they handled a similar situation and the consequences... Thanks
lionesss Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Boy oh Boy Holy, Do I know what your going through. There are a few of us in here were unknowingly the other woman. when when I found out, I chose to wait a while and calm down before I took action. I ended up writing the wife an anonymous letter. Not because I wanted him back but because I felt as my womanly duty to let her know what her husband is up to and she should keep a tighter leash on him. I have learned confronting the man will only create more confusion and mix in more lies. I wasted time talking to him trying to pull out a good explaination until I realized I'm trusting a liar to tell me the truth. I think you should tell her personally or phone her.
UnknowingOW Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 HolyCrapNot Me, I've have been in a 5-year friendship/relationship with a man. Finally taking it to the next level just recently. Only to find out the truth, by me running a background check, that he is in fact married. I waited days to decided whether to confront, tell his wife, and so on. Ultimately, I told him the truth of my findings. I did not call his wife. That is his responsibility. This is so new to me. Never thought I would be in this position. I haven't enacted complete NC, but know in my heart it's the best way to remove myself from this toxic situation. I keep blocking and unblocking his name from my messenger. What I do know is this. I will not become the OW. He's in a bad place and needs to get his head on straight, and I shouldn't be the distraction in his life to not make his marriage a go. Good luck in what you do. I know this is hard, but it's the tough decisions in life that make us who we are.
BUTAFLY Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I too was unkowingly the OW. My man was not married but engaged. I thought I did everything right. I met his family/friends, I been to his house, spent weekends there. dated out in the open holding hands. We worked at the same company and drove to work together. On the surface there was no indication that their was someone eles at first. Then i too did some snooping and found out the awful truth. This is my argument for telling the wives when men go around pretending to be single. I'm sure Holycrapnotme is not the first nor the last he is going to deceive if his cover is not blown. By us women not coming foward he has no reason to stop. These type of men feel no guilt, no remorse, they won't tell their wives (their stupid not crazy) and why should they when he can get away with it. I think you should tell her. I like what Lioness said 'these men need a leash' or at least to know their wives will be watching closely.
Walking away Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I, too, was an unknowing OW. My MM lied to me from the very first phone call telling me he wasn't married. Everything jived. He called all hours of the day and night....texted me, e-mailed me. He flew me to join him on business trips and flew here to see me and my KIDS. Yep. He infiltrated my life. AFTER I fell in love with him, he dropped the bomb on me. The last six months have been an absolute war with myself in the attempt to extricate myself from this relationship. Don't underestimate your feelings for this guy. I NEVER would have knowingly become the OW. I had turned down every unavailable man prior to my MM and have since turned down every unavailable man. My MM would have been no different. But, feelings had already developed. So I tore myself up inside vascillating between staying and going. Head vs. heart. My head ultimately won, but I suffered incalculable damage due to this affair. If I can offer any advice, I would say to RUN and never, ever look back. Tell his wife? That's a personal call. I didn't. But that is me. Everyone is different. I am so sorry. WA
SoleMate Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Should I confront him with what I know? No, because there is no point - you already have ALL the info you need - and there IS a danger - that he would spin you a web of plausible lies that would overwhelm your intellect and cause you to go back to him. Do I need to give him an explanation as to why I want him to lose my number and forget he even knew me? No. His problem, not yours. From now on, you take no concern for him whatsoever. Is it a waste of time to lecture him about being honest in a relationship and why his being a liar cost him? Yes. Once again, you'll just encounter a snowstorm of BS. Immediate and toal NC is the way to go. Am I morally obligated to tell his wife? Not IMO, and I frankly would like you to end any involvement with him, however peripheral. If you do decide to tell her, I would make it a very limited communication, possibly a neutral, written recital of times, places, actions, statements. I would NOT want you to be exposed to her reaction, because it is inevitable that she will blame and excoriate you. She has to demonize the OW to live with herself and her H. She's an adult, and she should be aware that cheating is a possibility in any relationship. The only situation where I would say that there is a moral obligation is if you know that you passed an STD to the husband. I almost feel a little guilty for wanting to end it after I said that I loved him...Am I crazy? No, just a sincere and loving person who has been badly mistreated. Just do me a favor, and don't ignore any more red flags with any futre men.
stillafool Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 This guy is a pathological liar. There is absolutely no need for any further contact with him. He will just give you his second string of lies. I would get tested for STDs etc. Thank God you found out before you ruined your finances and life. Next, he probably would have come up with an idea for you to invest a certain amount of money - which you would have never seen again. BTW, how did you investigate him and how did you get his info to do this? I tell you after reading your post it's probably a good idea for every woman to do a background check when things seem to good to be true. Look I know it hurts and by being in love with him you may feel your heart forgiving him for these lies. Don't be fooled, it's no telling where this would have lead you had you not found out this information.
quankanne Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 damn, HC ... he really pulled the wool over your eyes! The best thing to do is to walk away without looking back. You know the truth about him, and it would follow that he'd be happy to spin more lies if it meant that he could still have a relationship with you – even if he knew that you saw through them. I'm not sure what telling his wife would do, because I'm sure he's lying to her royally, as well. just walk away, and when he asks why, tell him he is not the man you thought he was, that you cannot be in a relationship based on lies. Then don't look back. As trite as it sounds, there's someone out there who is much, much better for you than you believed your old flame to be, and he's waiting for you. hugs, quank
silktricks Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 So...to the question. Should I confront him with what I know? Do I need to give him an explanation as to why I want him to lose my number and forget he even knew me? He's a nasty piece of work. You don't owe him anything at all, and don't need to give him an explanation. Be careful about confrontation - anyone who lies that much may have some other unsavory facets to their personality. And, as others have said, the man can spin some pretty ferocious lies. Be careful that he doesn't suck you back in. Is it a waste of time to lecture him about being honest in a relationship and why his being a liar cost him? It is a complete and utter waste of time. Anyone who can lie with the felicity that this man did has been doing it for a long long long time. It's a way of life, and won't change just because you lecture him. Am I morally obligated to tell his wife? No, you aren't. I'm a former BS, so I'll just leave it at that. UGGGHHH! I am just glad I found out now when it is easier for me to make a clean break. I'll admit, I almost feel a little guilty for wanting to end it after I said that I loved him... I thought I could go through hell and high water for him as long as he didn't hit me or treat me meanly. Am I crazy? To be honest, yes, you are crazy. But if it's any comfort, you're crazy because he made you that way. And again, to be honest, if you feel the slightest bit guilty about ending it, then you need to stay as FAR away from him as you can. A liar such as him can sense that from about 10,000 miles away and will use it against you any way he can. I will miss his company. I hate that my dream bubble had been burst! Just remember, you aren't really missing him, because you never knew him. You just knew what he told you about himself, and what you allowed yourself to believe and feel based on those lies. There really are some fine men out there. Just not this one and not this time. Give yourself a break, and refocus on your own self worth. Best of luck to you. (By the way, in case you think I can't understand. My 1st husband was a liar such as this man. It took me a LOT of time to recover my sanity after living with him for 7+ years. Count yourself blessed that you found out when you did.)
Author HolyCrapNotMe Posted June 10, 2006 Author Posted June 10, 2006 Thank you all for you comments, they were really helpful! Unfortunately, I had not seen them before I had taken the first steps. Your comments let me know I did the right thing and that I really need to be careful about what now. I did confront him, over the phone. I hadn't been taking his calls and he was sending multiple messages to me asking if I was ok. I blindsided him when I finally did confront him during my lunch break. I asked him when he had planned to tell me he was still married. Simple, and assertively direct. I think I heard his lip hit the floor. He denied it of course. So then I said that was funny because his bankruptcy filing said he was. Again he denied it. I didn't say too much more after that, just many hmmms, oh reallys and questions. After about a minute of that he mentioned that something may have come in the mail and he should have looked at it. Was he kidding me? I think he really thought I was so desperate for him that I would believe a bankruptcy could be filed with him as the initiator and he would know nothing about it... I will admit for a second I wanted to believe him. Maybe I had made some horrible mistake. Fortunately, my audit instincts kicked in. I deal with people like that every day and have actually be trained on dealing with them and reading between the lines. So I was direct again. I asked him if he was denying that he was married to <enter wife's name> and that he had filed bankruptcy. I think he was shocked that I knew his wife's name. He tried to get around the question and then a load of bull came running towards me. Finally he hung up on me when after the last lie I said, "so you are denying ...." Of course he called back but with a different attack. Instead of trying to deceive my intellect, he went straight for my heart. This is where the months of therapy related to my ex-husband came in handy because I had to disregard EVERYTHING my heart was screaming at me. He was very nice and apologized for hanging up. He said he was just so shocked that I would think he was that type of person. He didn't know what to think about what I had confronted him with. He just knew that he was in love with me and blah blah blah (used to hear that all the time after my ex would abuse me) So, I pushed past the heart and went with the mind. Again, I asked if he was denying it.. His response...silence then... he was so disappointed that he took a risk with me when he had swore of women and *sniff, sniff* he doesn't know how he will ever get over this... and he would never put his heart out there like that again. WAS HE KIDDING ME!???!!!!??? He needs to go love his wife and pay her back for putting up with him all this time!!! My mind was pretty pissed at that point but my heart was remorseful. How could I do this to this poor man? He just needed the right woman to love him. After a few moments of silence (well, quiet sobbing on his side, not sure if it was real) my mind won!! YES!!! I told him I was sorry he was disappointed and hung up. I have not taken his calls since lunch and based on what you guys said, I won't. I can still hear my heart but I know my heart needs a few lessons from my mind Those of you that said it was pointless to confront him and lecture him were right...it was pointless although I got a little sense of empowerment listening to him squirm! I have decided that I will not contact his wife (based on some of the comments you guys and some of the other threads with the wife's perspective). She has to know already. He had spent a lot of time with me and I am sure the signs were there. I don't have any STDs...at least I didn't before I met him so I will be making an appointment first thing Monday. I am praying this thing has not cost me my health with HIV or AIDS. I know he would just tell her that I am some psycho woman chasing him. He is a very convincing liar and very good at crying on cue... I am sure that worked with her many times because she had much more invested in him (her heart, he was her first love, new baby, two other kids, finances, and she is young...I think...) than I do (my heart) She will have to make her journey...just like I did. I learned a lot and your comments help me see that my feelings are normal, and I am probable a little crazy but ok. I haven't lost hope...I don't think I am bitter although time will tell and I will be much more cautious in the future... background check first! Maybe I can charge all first dates a fee so that I can run a comprehensive check! I am also taking a vow of celebacy. For those asking how I got the information... much information out there is public document (bankruptcies, marriages, divorces, court cases in progress, criminal cases, property ownership, etc) How much you have access to depends on where you live and what county you are trying to get the information from. Some states have restrictions on who the info can be released to (births, marriages, divorces) Luckily for me my county has court records online with the ability to search by name. You just need full name and you should have birthday so you can ensure you have the right person. I am known for sending email that ask all those personal question amongst my friends (favorite color, where you were born, etc) so I got some information from him that way and some just by our conversations. I had to pay for the bankruptcy search online but the cost was minimal. I was also able to do a property search at minimal cost. I spent a total of $35 dollars. I also did a search of his name and his wife's name with google. That gave me some information that I used to deduct I had the right information. Thanks again guys, I know that I made the right choice and I will look back on this experience pne day and realize the magnitude of my blessing.
SoleMate Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 Wow, you are awesome, HCNM! I would like you to become the LS poster child for dumping a MM who concealed his status. Your interrogation sounds as if were devastatingly effective, in that you saw right through his BS and did not let his sniffles overcome your logic. I foresee a very happy future for you, starting any minute now.
Jessie61 Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 I foresee a very happy future for you, starting any minute now. I agree! Well done!
Fun2BMe Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 I am so impressed at how well you handled the situation and didn't allow yourself to get sucked in further with his lies. He fits the description of a psychopath. That is a good lesson to force yourself to think with your mind instead of your heart at a crucial time like the one you faced with him over the phone. I woiuld love to find out how to ask or get the social sec # of the person you date to run a credit check. You would learn of their financial standing dating back to at leats 10 years incuding bankruptcies and any judgements, liens and credit card debt and unpaid child support, addresses they have lived at. different names they have gone by, and other information that would be good to know about someone before investing too much of your time and feelings into them.
lovernotafighter Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 bravo HCMN !! you handled that beautifully! F2BM many records are public domain without knowing a persons social...I found my MM's police records from his county..he had drug charges and grand thief auto..our employers have no idea. I had to act all surprised when he told me and later when I was drunk I confessed...I think he liked it..yikes! anyway divorces and things are considered civil suits and can be looked up also..I also found where he lives and his home phone number on the net as well.
movinon05 Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 HCNM You are totally awesome!! Great job! Now move on and find the happiness you so deserve!!!!
Outcast Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 You did wonderfully. I'm particularly impressed with this: I can still hear my heart but I know my heart needs a few lessons from my mind Refusing to let your heart dictate in a bad situation is exactly the thing to do. Now, should you waver even the teeniest bit, remember this: Just remember, you aren't really missing him, because you never knew him. You just knew what he told you about himself, and what you allowed yourself to believe and feel based on those lies The man you loved never existed. You loved an image that he painted of himself and the man you believed him to be. I realized that about someone once (not a MM, thank goodness, but still a liar) and any care I had for him evaporated immediately. I wasn't sad and didn't miss him because I realized the 'him' I might have missed was a figment of my imagination.
alfagrl Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 Good for you ...bravo!!!! You sound like me when you said: I will be much more cautious in the future... background check first! Maybe I can charge all first dates a fee so that I can run a comprehensive check! I am also taking a vow of celebacy I'm now taking applications for PT bf, possibility for advancement after 90days. 'Benefits' began after 90 probation period. Please submit resume along with medical records and $35 non refundable fee for backround check to _____. Interviews will begin this summer. Don't call me I'll call you.
Fun2BMe Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 F2BM many records are public domain without knowing a persons social...I found my MM's police records from his county..he had drug charges and grand thief auto..our employers have no idea. anyway divorces and things are considered civil suits and can be looked up also..I also found where he lives and his home phone number on the net as well. LNF, I have access to look up property and public information. The social is needed if you want to look up their financial background. I am not talking about trying to date someone who is wealthy, but someone's character can be reflected on their use or abuse of credit. For example, someone can earn a 200K annual income, but make late payments on their credit card, max out their card, have filed for bankruptcy, have had cars repossessed, and be irrisponsible in that way. Someone can make 40K but live within their means, pay their bills on time and so on. I have access at work to pull such information, a 20+ page report with all their info. I use it to do a background on my clients when I invest for them. Some of my clients are extremely wealthy and charming, but I am horrified when I find for example that they have a 50,000 judgement against them for nonpaid childsupport. If they used to go by another name, it will be difficult to find that information in public records. Using the social sec# will pull all their crap out. Some make up elaborate excuses for their situation just like the OP's man did. I am also pleassantly surprised by others who are very responsible financially who I would not have thought were.
Stylist101 Posted June 14, 2006 Posted June 14, 2006 Almost the same thing happened to me almost 4 weeks ago. I was dating this guy for 6 months and everything was peachy!!! We were discussing moving to Florida together in December and he told me that he loved me. I never reciprocated the love thing because I was uncertain due to the fact that I had never seen his house or met many of his friends. I did meet his brother though and he reassured me that my man was in fact single. So one day while I was on vacation, I decided to google him. I knew that he had a 4 year old daughter, but I found out that he had a 9 month old too and that in Oct, he and a lady with the same first name as me and his last name sold a house together!!!!!!!!!! This broke my poor heart. I confronted him and over the phone and told him that until he had an explanaition for me that he could not call me anymore. He called the next day and talked to me for hours and told me that he would explain everything when I got home. We were supossed to get a yorkipoo puppy and everything. SO he picks me up from the airport and tells me that he is married and has a daughter and blaa blaa. He is a real selfish jerk. He lied about everything that he ever said to me. I ended things with him a couple times but I never could stick to it. A week after I found out, his wife called me and asked me how I knew her husband, I almost died!!! I denied everything of course. I wanted to protect him...I dont know why. She has called since and threatened me. He has no remorse for what he did, he wants his 21 year old girlfriend and his wife and children. I wish that I wouldve changed my number immediately and never spoken to him again. I moved!!! I didnt want him to know where I lived anymore and there were too many memories in my bedroom and house. I couldn't sleep anymore at all. It is a stressful process, but I think that you shouldnt give him an explaination,afterall he didnt give you one. I say dont even communicate with him anymore. People that can lie like that are very manipulative and relentless and if you talk to him, he may talk you into second guessing your intuition. YOu have to follow your heart and do what feels right for you, but sometimes we can all be victims, but trust me that if you see him anymore or sleep with him anymore, you will feel so dirty and it wont be the same for you. Trust me, I know. I hope that everything works out for you. Stay strong. You deserve better
Fun2BMe Posted June 15, 2006 Posted June 15, 2006 but I think that you shouldnt give him an explaination,afterall he didnt give you one. I say dont even communicate with him anymore. People that can lie like that are very manipulative and relentless and if you talk to him, he may talk you into second guessing your intuition. YOu have to follow your heart and do what feels right for you, but sometimes we can all be victims Sorry to hear what you went through, it sounds similar to the OP's situation. You did the right thing to move away. It must've been so difficult when you found out the truth about him and all the lies he had been telling you. I hope you are doing better.
Recommended Posts