Lostit Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 New Poster old problem. Old guy been married 25 years, I am a civil service worker and my wife is a exec and makes twice what I make. She associates with alot of wealthy and succesfull people and I am not either. We are happy except when I go into insecure jealous guy mode an start accusing her of having an affair and this normally occurs when she rejects me sexually. This started about 10 years ago. She started working really late, started becoming unresponsive to sex, started receiving a few expensive gifts. She also got genital warts as I got a call from her obgyn. He told me that he would remove it but that we should not have sex for 2 weeks. At the time we both mistakenly thought it was from a wart on my finger. haha sad . I found it was sexually transmitted and through the years it popped up in our fights so she arranged a meeting with her current obgyn and the current obgyn told me that there was no written record on my wife's medical chart that mentioned the chlamydia. The Jealousy on my part got worse untill 7 years ago I went to a shrink who treated me for depression. His thinking was that the jealousy was caused by depression and he prescribed paxil, then zyprexa then lexapro. These helped me stop obsessing about the problem but the jealousy never left during this period and there were occassions when we did have the same fights but it was less frequent. I think the drugs were only successfull because it dulled my emotions along with the jealousy. 3 months ago I got fed up with the meds and slowly weaned myself off. Everything was fine untill 3 weeks ago I went on a golf trip from friday over the weekend and returned on Sunday afternoon. I wanted to have sex when I returned. So when my daughter went out sunday night I approached my wife but my wife told me that I had a vacation so she should have one too. I was upset and turned into jealous guy mode. I figured that we did not have sex for at least 10 days so I collected all her panty liners and put them away. Two days later I collected one on the 23rd that I knew was from that day and I dated it and put it in a zip loc bag. Sent away for Checkmate Sperm tester and continued to collect panty liners and date them. Last weekend we tried to have sex but she was not responsive so i asked if she wanted me to redo oral sex and she said to just finish because she didn't want to continue and just wanted me to finish. I stopped and did not finish. Collected panty liners for the next 2 days and labeled and dated them. Two days later on 6/6/06 got my Sperm Test kit and the results on the 5/23/06 and 6/4/06 tested positive for sperm and both time did not implant sperm in my wife for at least 7 days. I talked to her that night and told her that I know she is having an affair. Didn't reveal how and told her that if she tells me the truth then we can work it out. If she lies to me than we cannot go on. She took an argumentative attitude and told me that she is not and will not be subjected to this anymore and if I don't stop accussing her it is over. She told me that she would not make me go through years of therapy with meds she would just leave. I told her that her words and actions are totally different. She claims she loves me but she shows no affection. She doesn't like me to kiss her on the mouth. Isn't this how prostitutes treat their customers. She says it feels funny and she only pecks and pulls away. She says she needs more cuddling but she actually needs porn to stimulate her to have sex and I don't(though I like it when she's not there). My wife is strong and would not have a problem lying to me and I think she may not want to admit to the affair simply for reasons of saving her reputation or for financial reasons. The genital wart and the positve sperm test are real they do not remove all doubt but they were not made up in my mind. I think it is enough to prove she did but i think I want her to admit that she did and allow the marriage to continue. If she doesn't I think I should get a private investigator and get ironclad evidence and then divorce her. Sorry for the long winded story but would like to hear what people think.
Sup Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 New Poster old problem. Old guy been married 25 years, I am a civil service worker and my wife is a exec and makes twice what I make. She associates with alot of wealthy and succesfull people and I am not either. We are happy except when I go into insecure jealous guy mode an start accusing her of having an affair and this normally occurs when she rejects me sexually. This started about 10 years ago. She started working really late, started becoming unresponsive to sex, started receiving a few expensive gifts. She also got genital warts as I got a call from her obgyn. He told me that he would remove it but that we should not have sex for 2 weeks. At the time we both mistakenly thought it was from a wart on my finger. haha sad . I found it was sexually transmitted and through the years it popped up in our fights so she arranged a meeting with her current obgyn and the current obgyn told me that there was no written record on my wife's medical chart that mentioned the chlamydia. The Jealousy on my part got worse untill 7 years ago I went to a shrink who treated me for depression. His thinking was that the jealousy was caused by depression and he prescribed paxil, then zyprexa then lexapro. These helped me stop obsessing about the problem but the jealousy never left during this period and there were occassions when we did have the same fights but it was less frequent. I think the drugs were only successfull because it dulled my emotions along with the jealousy. 3 months ago I got fed up with the meds and slowly weaned myself off. Everything was fine untill 3 weeks ago I went on a golf trip from friday over the weekend and returned on Sunday afternoon. I wanted to have sex when I returned. So when my daughter went out sunday night I approached my wife but my wife told me that I had a vacation so she should have one too. I was upset and turned into jealous guy mode. I figured that we did not have sex for at least 10 days so I collected all her panty liners and put them away. Two days later I collected one on the 23rd that I knew was from that day and I dated it and put it in a zip loc bag. Sent away for Checkmate Sperm tester and continued to collect panty liners and date them. Last weekend we tried to have sex but she was not responsive so i asked if she wanted me to redo oral sex and she said to just finish because she didn't want to continue and just wanted me to finish. I stopped and did not finish. Collected panty liners for the next 2 days and labeled and dated them. Two days later on 6/6/06 got my Sperm Test kit and the results on the 5/23/06 and 6/4/06 tested positive for sperm and both time did not implant sperm in my wife for at least 7 days. I talked to her that night and told her that I know she is having an affair. Didn't reveal how and told her that if she tells me the truth then we can work it out. If she lies to me than we cannot go on. She took an argumentative attitude and told me that she is not and will not be subjected to this anymore and if I don't stop accussing her it is over. She told me that she would not make me go through years of therapy with meds she would just leave. I told her that her words and actions are totally different. She claims she loves me but she shows no affection. She doesn't like me to kiss her on the mouth. Isn't this how prostitutes treat their customers. She says it feels funny and she only pecks and pulls away. She says she needs more cuddling but she actually needs porn to stimulate her to have sex and I don't(though I like it when she's not there). My wife is strong and would not have a problem lying to me and I think she may not want to admit to the affair simply for reasons of saving her reputation or for financial reasons. The genital wart and the positve sperm test are real they do not remove all doubt but they were not made up in my mind. I think it is enough to prove she did but i think I want her to admit that she did and allow the marriage to continue. If she doesn't I think I should get a private investigator and get ironclad evidence and then divorce her. Sorry for the long winded story but would like to hear what people think. Contact a lawyer, in secret of course, find out what YOUR rights are. Ask him also about the leagality of Checkmate, if it can be used in your favor. Also see about a good keylogger for your computer, one that is undetectable by her. If you DO divorce her you'll have all the evidence on the day you go to court to throw in her face. I dunno about the PI, they ARE expensive, but if you can get away with it without her knowing it, It may turn up something. Let us know how it goes. Laterz:cool:
jonesgirly Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 seems like you've got pretty good 'proof' of infidelity, but I think that "I" would want to know for sure. I'll admit I'm a bit naive when it comes to trusting my spouse, but your evidence seems pretty concrete. Time to go stealth mode. Too many red flags here for comfort. Install a keylogger on her home computer (if she has one) or laptop. Check all cellphone bills (gain access to accounts online). Check credit card receipts (online if possible), bank account records (again online). Print out anything you question, and put it in your own "file" for later. Note her leaving and arrival times - any different than normal? This tells you one of two things - its happenin at work, or its before/after work. Not sure of her hours, but you would know. Arrange a spontaneous lunch date with her. I'm sure there's some lame-ass Halmark holiday coming up soon, give her a call an hour before lunch and/or surprise her by showing up at her office. You can read a lot by a persons reaction to a "surprise" visit. Check mileage on vehicles vs. travel to/from work. Chump64 is pretty stealthy here - she may have further tips. All in all, I think knowing the truth is what you're seeking. You've struggled with a 'gut' feeling for years........with physical evidence disputing your wife's proclaimation of innocence. I see no reason for you to not know the truth. I wouldn't confront her with any 'bit' of information though, you need the real picture. A LOT of WS's go 'underground' if they suspect they're being watched by spouses. And NO this isn't about invading her privacy.....its about YOU being able to determine the truth.
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Oh boy.... You really have alot of problems here but let me state the obvious... from what you've posted: 1. You are an insecure person. You don't trust that your wife could be faithful to you... especially since she brings home the bigger cut. 2. You stopped your medication... without consulting your doctor! That's a bad move! Obviously, being out of the meds, you've become your insecure self ... again! 3. Your wife is probably having extramarital sex. (Yes, I agree with you that the genital wart and the sperms on her panty liners are good evidence.) And she doesn't want you to know about this. 4. Your wife wants to stay married to you. I don't know why, but evidently she does. If she had wanted to leave you for another man, she would have already done so. So, I think that marriage counseling can still save this marriage. Both of you have to be willing to work it out. I'd also recommend this site for you: marriagebuilders.com (it has a great section on infidelity). Good luck. And please, see a doctor about getting back on the meds.
Love Hurts Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 You want more proof than you have established. On the grounds of it is still her word against yours. You have medicated yourself to numb the natural instinct in a mate, when the other is suspected of cheating. It sounds like you have enough evidence......... in addition to her carlessness of what she is doing to your emotions or physical well being ... She encouraged you to take an anti-depresant............. Was it needlessly? Had she opened up with you and talked about it you could have been spared the med period. Cold hearted / self centerness on her part. If you feel you need iron clad evidence for the sake of love............. or to topple he said- she said and never having more proof than your suspicions............... as well your panty liner testing.......(says alot as for proof sake). Then hang on and get your private investigor. You will have photos, vidio footage as well as who it is, where they meet and when. You desire proof, facts to confront this dark shadow.....This may be the closure you need in order go on.
scarletletter Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I just have to compliment you on the checking the pantyliners thing. That is absolutely ingenious! I don't know if I have ever heard of that. I gotta tell you that it does sound as if she is having an affair. The bigger question is..if you are so unhappy, truly unhappy..why wait to see if she is having an affair and just go on and leave. It sounds as if she is the root of all of your problems. Maybe you deserve to have a happy life from now on. Just my thoughts.
Chump64 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 You don't need proof for legal purposes. Divorces are 'no fault' in most states and infidelity is not usually grounds for divorce, custody decisions, monetary splits, etc. It sounds like you pretty much have the proof you need, but here are a few more investigative tips: * Put a voice activated recorder in her car. You can't catch all her cell conversations, but you can at least catch her side / what SHE is saying. Hide it. Lemme know if you need hiding tips. Put a recorder in her office even, if you can. There are some that look like ballpoint pens. Lay one on her desk. That's how I got started with my own investigating. * Check around for a cheap global positioning unit. Put it in her car. It can tell you where she went. * Bug your home phone. Put a line tap on a little-used extension. Bug her office phone too, if you can swing it. I got into my husband's office by figuring out when he'd be in meetings, etc. (I can see his calendar that is set up on his email.) Then I'd have a gift or something in hand in case I ran into a coworker. "I'm leaving this gift here as a surprise for him, so please don't tell himI was here!" At one point, I delivered a framed picture as a surprise, while he was in a meeting. Well -- OOPS! -- the frame broke when I dropped it! (I had a stash of broken glass that I dumped on the floor.) Darn! Now the co-workers who were helping me deliver this surprise knew I had to come back with a new picture, and they conspired with me when I delivered the new item (so I could pick up the recorder I used to tap his phone line). I eventually wised up and realized I could get in the building at 7 am with no one around. Illegal? Yeah. Will she turn you in? Not likely, unless she wants the whole world to know she's cheating. * Install a keylogger on your home computer. This is how I captured my husband's work email password. You can download free ones that are kind of clunky and inefficient, but they did the job for me. A site I'm gonna pimp for you is XXXXXXX. They will send the items to your work address and will accept a check or money order (vs. a credit card). Good luck.
Sup Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 You don't need proof for legal purposes. Divorces are 'no fault' in most states and infidelity is not usually grounds for divorce, custody decisions, monetary splits, etc. It sounds like you pretty much have the proof you need, but here are a few more investigative tips: * Put a voice activated recorder in her car. You can't catch all her cell conversations, but you can at least catch her side / what SHE is saying. Hide it. Lemme know if you need hiding tips. Put a recorder in her office even, if you can. There are some that look like ballpoint pens. Lay one on her desk. That's how I got started with my own investigating. * Check around for a cheap global positioning unit. Put it in her car. It can tell you where she went. * Bug your home phone. Put a line tap on a little-used extension. Bug her office phone too, if you can swing it. I got into my husband's office by figuring out when he'd be in meetings, etc. (I can see his calendar that is set up on his email.) Then I'd have a gift or something in hand in case I ran into a coworker. "I'm leaving this gift here as a surprise for him, so please don't tell himI was here!" At one point, I delivered a framed picture as a surprise, while he was in a meeting. Well -- OOPS! -- the frame broke when I dropped it! (I had a stash of broken glass that I dumped on the floor.) Darn! Now the co-workers who were helping me deliver this surprise knew I had to come back with a new picture, and they conspired with me when I delivered the new item (so I could pick up the recorder I used to tap his phone line). I eventually wised up and realized I could get in the building at 7 am with no one around. Illegal? Yeah. Will she turn you in? Not likely, unless she wants the whole world to know she's cheating. * Install a keylogger on your home computer. This is how I captured my husband's work email password. You can download free ones that are kind of clunky and inefficient, but they did the job for me. A site I'm gonna pimp for you is XXXXX. They will send the items to your work address and will accept a check or money order (vs. a credit card). Good luck. Way To Go 007!
UnknowingOW Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I am IMPRESSED! I thought I was a snoop! Gut instinct will get them everytime. I have no problems with email snooping, checking voicemails, and doing background searches. Email snooping enabled me to find out my fiancee was on many online dating sites stating he was single.Voicemail snooping proved he lied and the women were still around.Background checks made me realize the man I was now dating is married.The world is a scary place. You cannot trust anyone anymore. I will never go into a relationship with out complete confirmation of the truth and I will probably never trust blindly.
Chump64 Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 I was completely propelled by the anger from being so blatantly lied to, by my husband and the OW (who was a "friend"). I hated the fact that he thought I was so stupid and that he thought I'd buy his lies / that he could get away with this. I remember trying to be so patient and knowing (as I listened to both of their phone lines being busy) that they would 'get theirs' if I just kept digging until I got the proof I needed. It all paid off. But it was hard to be patient and methodical. It was one h*ll of a Christmas, because I had the proof but was waiting after the holidays to confront. I suspect the next few Christmases will be tough. (Sidenote: On the day I confronted him, I bagged up all the xmas gifts he gave me into a big purdy shopping bag, along with an xmas card, and told him to give all that crap to his girlfriend or I would throw them in her yard. ) I am not a techie type person nor am I anything near "genius" level in intellect. But I learned how to hack a computer, tap a phone, run all kinds of electronic devices, etc. I even downloaded an audio editing program from the web (free) and was able to use it to analyze the buttons my husband pressed on his phone when he made calls. He and I have the same style of work phones and I could compare the tones to mine. From that, I could tell what number he pressed based on the isolated / analyzed sound of each button (based on the phone taps I gathered). From that, I deciphered his voice mail pass code. It helps that I work alone in an office and could do some of this during the day. And that I had a freelance job on the side at that time, which paid for all the spy equipment I bought (so my husband didn't see the cash coming out of our finances). The stuff I used that ultimately gave me the most solid proof was free though.
MsColorado Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 Chump, I absolutely love how proactive and intelligent you were in making sure you nailed your husband. You had every right to do it and I admire you for it. I also admire the fact that you didn't rush right out and divorce him and that you are taking your time and seeing if the marriage can be saved. That's very admirable. Anyway, ever consider becoming a PI or a consultant? You seem so good at it and maybe it's a calling...you can help out other wives that find themselves in the same boat you were in but aren't sure how to go about the process of gathering all the information to confront their husband. Heck, I'd use you if I ever needed it!
Chump64 Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 LOL! Thanks! I would gladly help anyone in my sitaution, if I could. I always tell people (online), don't waste time on a private investigator. I actually spoke to one at one point, and he could not enter my husband's building or do any of the stuff I did. Which makes sense. None of it was legal. With the exception of my husband's "nooners" with the OW, everything else took place behind closed office doors. A PI won't touch that with a 10 foot pole. Having someone followed for $75 / hour is stupid when you can get a good global positioning system unit for $150, and hide it in the car. A lot of peopel think I'm nuts for not walking. Not my friend in real life, but a lot of people online. There is just so much invested, in both the mrrriage and the family. I hope we can make it work.
Sup Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 LOL! Thanks! I would gladly help anyone in my sitaution, if I could. I always tell people (online), don't waste time on a private investigator. I actually spoke to one at one point, and he could not enter my husband's building or do any of the stuff I did. Which makes sense. None of it was legal. With the exception of my husband's "nooners" with the OW, everything else took place behind closed office doors. A PI won't touch that with a 10 foot pole. Having someone followed for $75 / hour is stupid when you can get a good global positioning system unit for $150, and hide it in the car. A lot of peopel think I'm nuts for not walking. Not my friend in real life, but a lot of people online. There is just so much invested, in both the mrrriage and the family. I hope we can make it work. I'm surprised you didn't have a guided missle launching system in your vehicle (just kidding of course) AMAZING!
Milf629 Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 you know you can rent a GPS tracker that can then be installed (on the outside of her vehicle) and I think to rent it for a month was like $200+ I mean YES it is an expense, but if you can keep track of her and then start seeing regular spots you could catch her yourself. The panty liner thing to me screams she is cheating, why not just go ahead with the divorce, and slam her with it, BUT I understand the needing concrete evidence too. I think you have to set in your mind what concrete evidence is to you, so that when it happens you can say definetively "i'm done".
BeFree Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 You did what?? You collected her panty liners??? I think you have some real issues. It was obvious your wife has not been faithful. So if this is something you can not deal with, get a divorce. Spending your days thinking of ways to catch her by going to the lowest form of invading someones privacy is sick. Go back on you meds. Please. And if you want to get a divorce then do it. If you want to stay married then please put away this sick obession and go the marriage counseling. You and your wife should have a better life. Get some help.
Chump64 Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 Yes, BeFree, he has real issues: He needs proof that his wife is cheating. I get so sick of the righteous people who come here and blame the betrayed spouse for investigating and trying to collect proof that someone is cheating. "Get help, get counseling, get a life" is the standard mantra. Get counseling for what? Because you suspect your spouse is cheating, but you have no real evidence? (A) A spouse who is suspected of cheating is not very likely to join you in a marriage counseling session so you can discuss your suspicions. (Believe me, this was my very first request.) Nice thought though. Most cheating spouses (who've not yet been caught and who have no plan to confess) will lie until their balls are nailed to the wall with evidence. (B) If said spouse does accompany you to counseling b/c you suspect s/he is cheating, but you have no proof, you are going to look like and feel like an insecure nutjob. In most cases, the wandering spouse has already gaslighted you to death / lied to you repeatedly / insisted that you are crazy if you think s/he is cheating. Yay -- now we can go see a therapist and have someone else tell us "Don't be so insecure. You have no proof that your spouse is cheating. Why can't you trust him?" (note sarcasm) BeFree -- you tell him to get a divorce. Why? Because he suspects his spouse is cheating and needs to prove it? And, BeFree, the "go back on the meds" line is just a slap in the face. It's a slap in the face to people who are on medication for very real issues. (Would you say that to a diabetic?) And it's a slap in the face to people who aren't on medication, because you are clearly implying that they are nuts. Let me remind you that this is a support board, not a place for you to bash people who are already ass-deep in problems.
whichwayisup Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 He hasn't come back to do an update. I'm sure he feels like he's not getting ANY support here. It's too bad because he certainly needs help.
most Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 I think you need serious help!! What an invasion, do yourself & her a favor by getting divorced. Oh, and take the meds you need them! There could be plenty of reasons that your wife doesn't want sex...menopause or maybe sex with you is not a pleasure anymore. Does she know you did this? She should.
RarePearl Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 I think collecting the panty liners was very clever of you. So you have proofs that she has been unfaithful to you, but you want her to come clean and work on your marriage. Obviously she doesn't want to give up her affairs. Either accept that or divorce. She will not change. I think you've posted long threads about your marriage before too and nothing has improved since.
ThumbingMyWay Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 I think you need serious help!! What an invasion, do yourself & her a favor by getting divorced. Oh, and take the meds you need them! There could be plenty of reasons that your wife doesn't want sex...menopause or maybe sex with you is not a pleasure anymore. Does she know you did this? She should. wtf he did what he had to do to get proof that his wife is cheating. he found sperm in her panties and it is NOT his.... what part of this dont you get? but i spose thats ok with you......
catgirl1927 Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 I just feel sorry for someone who has to go to the length of collecting and keeping panty liners. That cheating bitch should just own up to what she's doing rather than drive a person who used to be sane and happy to the point where he's digging through the trash for used panty liners. I mean, come on. How awful. I hope he leaves her and find someone he deserves. My wish for the OP and for all spouses who are cheated on is that their SOs would come clean and face the damn music. It is just so awful to cheat on someone. But seriously, you shouldn't stop taking your meds without checking with your doctor.
Sup Posted June 13, 2006 Posted June 13, 2006 Ohferchrissakes. Stupidity reigns today. They are probably cheaters themselves:sick:
Guest Posted June 14, 2006 Posted June 14, 2006 I had to collect proof my husband was cheating because I was starting to doubt my sanity. Everyone who knew him thought he was such a great guy and he was such an accomplished liar! Even with evidence in my hand he continued to deny any wrongdoing. It was as if I caught him on top of her and he would say, Oh, this? We are just having a business meeting. Do what ever you need to so you can get the truth and move on with your eyes open.
RarePearl Posted June 14, 2006 Posted June 14, 2006 I had to collect proof my husband was cheating because I was starting to doubt my sanity. Everyone who knew him thought he was such a great guy and he was such an accomplished liar! Even with evidence in my hand he continued to deny any wrongdoing. It was as if I caught him on top of her and he would say, Oh, this? We are just having a business meeting. Do what ever you need to so you can get the truth and move on with your eyes open. I agree and it's really sad that some people can make you go that far and humiliate yourself to the point where catching them in lies denies your dignity more than their deeds deny theirs... or yours!
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