RealityCheck Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 I have been reading this Forum and the Infidelity Forums. In addition, I just did a quick stats check on Divorce rate which was really overwhelming! Over the past couple of weeks, I have spoke to many married couples and out of 30 couples, there were only two that were sincerely happy. I cannot believe how many unfulfilled marriages there really are! I guess this is why I maintain that Marriage is way over-rated! Feel free to jump in with your perspectives and/or experiences. WITHOUT JUDGMENT...
Guest Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 I agree, so many married couples I know are very unhappy. The stats on marriage are awful. The stats on SECOND marriages are staggering. My BF and I are together a long time now and we never got married. It's wierd how everyone bugs us about marriage....yet most of them are DIVORCED! We are happy the way we are. My BF is twice divorced and I am never married, don't-care-to-be-married and we are fine with our relationship the way it is.
lovernotafighter Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 well I wouldn't say marriage is over rated RC it's just there are many pro's and Con's ,same as in single life. marriage is very much like work because two people are trying to reach goals together and just like any job you can't always see eye to eye. I know with my marriage that is what is destroying it..money issues..time issues..the fact we didn't have children yet and a few other variables. but I remember the days and should say years were me and my then fiance were blissfully happy. but once these things started becoming a factor..well you know what happen to me...look where I hang out! :-) but when I'm single I know, even though this is the right thing for both me and my husband there are still going to be many things I am going to miss despite the problems we are having now.
Chump64 Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 I am pretty cynical … But -- you know what I think? I think there are just a lot of plain screwed up PEOPLE. It’s not about the marriages as much as it is the individuals involved. I am beginning to think that almost all humans are screwed up, to some degree. The people who scare me the most are those who claim they are 100 percent normal and have no problems whatsoever. People are stupid. Life is messy. Period.
CantCutitOff Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 RC - I've been noticing the same thing myself, although I work in a profession that seems to have a VERY high infidelity rate. I dated someone from 5 years before calling it quits (not that getting involved with a MM was a good fix to that)... and while I still care about my exBF tons & know he's great guy... I can't imagine MARRYING him or anyone. Maybe it's immaturity. Who knows. I do know this: I celebrate whenever I see "that look" between a married couple... it still exists!
Jessie61 Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 I do know this: I celebrate whenever I see "that look" between a married couple... it still exists! I agree. It does still exist - even though I do wonder if it is getting increasingly rare and if keeping a relationship afloat is getting more difficult.... Most of my friends are in LONG terms relationships (most of them going on 20 years). Obviously the first flush of romance is gone, but the love is still there for anyone to see... The little things they do for each other, the little glances, the touches and the smiles etc. It is wonderful to see. My parents were also married for over 40 years when my mother died. I asked her a few years ago if she was still in love with dad. She giggled.... I rest my case.
zarathustra Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 I agree. It does still exist - even though I do wonder if it is getting increasingly rare and if keeping a relationship afloat is getting more difficult.... Most of my friends are in LONG terms relationships (most of them going on 20 years). Obviously the first flush of romance is gone, but the love is still there for anyone to see... The little things they do for each other, the little glances, the touches and the smiles etc. It is wonderful to see. My parents were also married for over 40 years when my mother died. I asked her a few years ago if she was still in love with dad. She giggled.... I rest my case. I think that M is too over rated for me, RC. If my H and I ever divorced, I too will at most live with someone but I don't think I'll walk down the aisle again. Jessie, you kill me! Your mom actually giggled?!?? It sounds like she was a phenomenal lady with her wicked sense of humour!
Author RealityCheck Posted June 8, 2006 Author Posted June 8, 2006 I am pretty cynical … But -- you know what I think? I think there are just a lot of plain screwed up PEOPLE. It’s not about the marriages as much as it is the individuals involved. I am beginning to think that almost all humans are screwed up, to some degree. The people who scare me the most are those who claim they are 100 percent normal and have no problems whatsoever. People are stupid. Life is messy. Period. *laughing* I have often said "normal" is "insanity".... Today's society has an extreme level of selfishness. We are smack in a world of convenience and so many more demands. I feel that society has lost its values. Through technology physical communication is becoming a thing of the past. I feel though we have progressed, we have also regressed. Perhaps this is why Divorce is so high! LNF.... When I said I feel marriage is over-rated, I don't mean that a happy marriage does not exist, I just feel people really need to look long and hard at their reasons to get married. I am not ashamed to say that the first time I married, I married for all the wrong reasons had I been more aware, I don't believe I would have married.
aktieb0cka Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 It is unfortunate to think this but I truly feel that people often settle for many different reasons. I feel that they think that it is the next step, often many of these people just don’t know the person or marry them for the wrong reasons, such as obligation, finances, afraid to be alone. Others just give up on their marriage because it is hard work and people don’t realize how hard it really is. It is amazing how many people do find “the one” so late in life after they marry someone else and have children with their ex. Both of my parents did. I think people think that by a certain time in their life they need to be married and some feel that their biological clock is ticking. I think the reasons for divorce are unlimited, such as abuse, drug problems, infidelity, one wants more children, the other doesn’t. I could go on forever.
Author RealityCheck Posted June 9, 2006 Author Posted June 9, 2006 It is unfortunate to think this but I truly feel that people often settle for many different reasons. I feel that they think that it is the next step, often many of these people just don’t know the person or marry them for the wrong reasons, such as obligation, finances, afraid to be alone. Others just give up on their marriage because it is hard work and people don’t realize how hard it really is. It is amazing how many people do find “the one” so late in life after they marry someone else and have children with their ex. Both of my parents did. I think people think that by a certain time in their life they need to be married and some feel that their biological clock is ticking. I think the reasons for divorce are unlimited, such as abuse, drug problems, infidelity, one wants more children, the other doesn’t. I could go on forever. I tend to agree with you on many points you have made. The dynamics in a marriage are many! Marriage is work there is no denying that fact, however it it can be extremely stressful when only one partner is fighting to save the marriage. For me, with raising my kids, my career and all the domestic and financial responsibilities I have going on in my life, I would much rather be in my position than what I was having to deal with in my marriage. Nothing, absolutely nothing was worse! I can't say that I'm not a worker, a fighter and strong, but I can say I am not prepared to live in a one sided marriage. Not for me that's for sure.
Love Hurts Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 In the last days perilous times will come. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of Godliness but dennying its power. ( 2 Timothy:3) Marriage was designed by God to show love one mate to the other, commitment. A solid foundation to build upon was God first. Today with Godlessness. Marriage is Godless.............. the above takes presidence when God is removed from the foundation of Marriage. God is the designer of Marriage. If He is missing............ so is the plan for marriage. You simply end up with two souls handcuffed to each other, with the desire to kill one another. Signs of the times. My parents are a vanishing class.
Jessie61 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I think that M is too over rated for me, RC. If my H and I ever divorced, I too will at most live with someone but I don't think I'll walk down the aisle again. Jessie, you kill me! Your mom actually giggled?!?? It sounds like she was a phenomenal lady with her wicked sense of humour! Zara, She giggled like a love struck 17 year old girl.... After 40 years together! Imagine that, eh??? Having said that, whereas I do believe that GOOD and LOVING longterm relationships do exists, I still realise that they need a lot of work on boths sides. AND in many of these longterm relationships that I see, the couples are not married. So if the question is about the "institution of marriage" providing happiness(as opposed to longterm relationships), then personally I would say that I would not be running down that aisle in a hurry. But that is only me....
Chump64 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Marriage does not "provide" happiness. It's a lot of damn work. Nothing provides happiness, other than fleeting moments -- like great sex, a good ice cream cone, a waft of a sweet country field on a rural drive. I don't believe that God has to be a factor in marriage. Look at divorce stats across religions. Some of the most conservative, God-dominated religions have high divorce rates. There is a lot of really anecdotal "evidence" on this thread, like someone who interviewed 30 couples, and someone who only "knows" happy couples that aren't married, etc. It's easy to cite that kind of stuff as evidence for a point you are trying to make, but it's not very valid, other than for purposes of casual discussion.
Jessie61 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Marriage does not "provide" happiness. It's a lot of damn work. Nothing provides happiness, other than fleeting moments -- like great sex, a good ice cream cone, a waft of a sweet country field on a rural drive. I don't believe that God has to be a factor in marriage. Look at divorce stats across religions. Some of the most conservative, God-dominated religions have high divorce rates. There is a lot of really anecdotal "evidence" on this thread, like someone who interviewed 30 couples, and someone who only "knows" happy couples that aren't married, etc. It's easy to cite that kind of stuff as evidence for a point you are trying to make, but it's not very valid, other than for purposes of casual discussion. I agree with you. Marriage (from what I hear from my friends and family) is hard work, but I also see that a good marriage does provide happiness. All I have to do is to look at my parents to see that. My Dad in his 70's and my Mum (before she died) in her 60's, walking hand in hand... I don't know if a marriage provides MORE happiness than a longterm relationship, though.... I do think that BOTH require an awful lot of work and that the pressure these days of everyday life probably combined with higher expectations makes it much more difficult than perhaps it used to be....? Sorry, I am only guessing here, I am no expert. But these are my own observations.
Chump64 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I think there is some naivety going on here. Just because two old people have a spark and still walk hand in hand, I don't think you can assume they've had a smooth ride all along. There can be a lot going on behind the scenes about which you may never know. Maybe gramma cheated on grandpa with the milkman or farmhand? Maybe gramdpa smacked grandma around until she aimed the shotgun at him and told him to shape up? Seriously, infidelity, domestic abuse, stress and drama, all the stuff that affects marriages negatively -- these are not new to our generation or the generation before us. NOT at all. It's just being handled differently. More people are opting to divorce. I agree with the statement about long term relationships and marriage not being different in terms of happiness. But in our society, people are so hung up on marriage that it become a point of contention if one partner won't commit. (Speaking generally here, of course.)
Jessie61 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I think there is some naivety going on here. Just because two old people have a spark and still walk hand in hand, I don't think you can assume they've had a smooth ride all along. There can be a lot going on behind the scenes about which you may never know. Maybe gramma cheated on grandpa with the milkman or farmhand? Maybe gramdpa smacked grandma around until she aimed the shotgun at him and told him to shape up? Seriously, infidelity, domestic abuse, stress and drama, all the stuff that affects marriages negatively -- these are not new to our generation or the generation before us. NOT at all. It's just being handled differently. More people are opting to divorce. I agree with the statement about long term relationships and marriage not being different in terms of happiness. But in our society, people are so hung up on marriage that it become a point of contention if one partner won't commit. (Speaking generally here, of course.) You are probably right about naivety! But it is actually self imposed naivety! I used to be oozing cynicism for years until I decided that I was only poisoining myself. Then I made a DECISION to try to look for positives in life, rather than focusing on negatives.... But you could well be right...!!!! No, I don't know if my parents had a blissfully happy marriage for the entire 40 years, I am sure that there were bumps along the way. Anything else would be abnormal, I guess? But when you add it all up they were "happy" in their marriage. Yes, relationships have always suffered from various stresses, and I agree that more people seem to opt for divorce these days. As for the reasons why they do or the don't, I think it is nearly impossible to comment because all situations have something which make them unique, even if on the face of it that particular situation looks like a million others. So what might be right for one person in a sitation may not be right for another person. Life has a habit of being complicated, hasn't it???
Chump64 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I tend to see cynicism as more of a reality-based approach vs. strictly a negative approach. I guess that means I don't have a lot of faith in humankind.
stillafool Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Jesse it sounds like your dad was your mom's true love. I bet they had passion between them. I guess I live in a fairytale haze but I think when two people have a great deal of passion between them it makes marriage easier. It does seem when we get married because 1) he's a good catch (money) 2) my bio clock is ticking 3) everyone else is getting married and all the other excuses besides I love this person with every fiber of my being and I will never get tired or having sex with them you can grow unhappy when the hard work starts. Not that I'm saying they won't go through tough ups and downs, but I think passion helps a lot. Most of us don't end up marrying our true loves sadly.
Chump64 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Maybe you DID marry your true love, but things changed? I think I married my true love, but he screwed me over, ultimately. We weren't especially young, or in a hurry, or worried about having to do it because "it was time." We were in love. But over time, people change, make stupid choices, do things that disappoint. Because one person screws up, it doesn't mean the whole marriage was never meant to be. It means one party screwed up. I maintain that people, in general, are often effed up. Marriages suffer as a result.
Jessie61 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I tend to see cynicism as more of a reality-based approach vs. strictly a negative approach. I guess that means I don't have a lot of faith in humankind. I actually know where you were coming from!!! And I didn't have much faith in humankind either. This "self inflicted naivety" approach is sometimes a struggle (even years after I made that decision) because reality rears its ugly head now and again. But all I can do is to do my best and struggle on, yeah?
Jessie61 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Jesse it sounds like your dad was your mom's true love. I bet they had passion between them. I guess I live in a fairytale haze but I think when two people have a great deal of passion between them it makes marriage easier. It does seem when we get married because 1) he's a good catch (money) 2) my bio clock is ticking 3) everyone else is getting married and all the other excuses besides I love this person with every fiber of my being and I will never get tired or having sex with them you can grow unhappy when the hard work starts. Not that I'm saying they won't go through tough ups and downs, but I think passion helps a lot. Most of us don't end up marrying our true loves sadly. Stillafool, Yes, I guess Dad was Mum's true love? My Dad always said that he wanted to die one day before her; because he would ot survive without her and he didn't want her to miss him for too long afterwards... That actually made my think of Homer Simpson (yes, again!!! ) when Marge asked him, at the time of marital trouble, what he could offer her that nobody else could... And he said "complete and utter dependence!" Sorry, lads, I am losing the plot and I seem to have mislaid the script about this thread somehow....
Jessie61 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Maybe you DID marry your true love, but things changed? But over time, people change, make stupid choices, do things that disappoint. Because one person screws up, it doesn't mean the whole marriage was never meant to be. It means one party screwed up. OK, I am back! Found the script again... I agree with you on this one. Nobody is perfect and sometimes people makes mistakes (yes, sometimes even BIG ones!). But if nobody ever forgave anyone for anything then we would end up with very few people around us, wouldn't we? (For the purposes of illustrating my point which is made in general terms, I am talking about ALL relationships in our lives; H/W, BF/GF, children, friends, family, colleagues etc etc...) Then I guess it is up to each and every one of us to decide who and what to forgive (or NOT, as the case may be!)? And that decision is very personal, in my view.
Author RealityCheck Posted June 9, 2006 Author Posted June 9, 2006 OK, I am back! Found the script again... I agree with you on this one. Nobody is perfect and sometimes people makes mistakes (yes, sometimes even BIG ones!). But if nobody ever forgave anyone for anything then we would end up with very few people around us, wouldn't we? (For the purposes of illustrating my point which is made in general terms, I am talking about ALL relationships in our lives; H/W, BF/GF, children, friends, family, colleagues etc etc...) Then I guess it is up to each and every one of us to decide who and what to forgive (or NOT, as the case may be!)? And that decision is very personal, in my view. I feel everyone has a different standard of what love should be and different tolerances to what they are prepared to fight for! For me, I do want my equal. Finding that would mean "equality" in a partnership. Sure as hell would make the bumpy ride less painful and stressful. Does it exist? Who knows! This has been awesome feedback! *looks around thread* Where's MO!!!
Jessie61 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Where's MO!!! Check out the "What are you doing to go on.." thread... I think she's in a bit of a bother...!!!!
Owl Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have been reading this Forum and the Infidelity Forums. In addition, I just did a quick stats check on Divorce rate which was really overwhelming! Over the past couple of weeks, I have spoke to many married couples and out of 30 couples, there were only two that were sincerely happy. I cannot believe how many unfulfilled marriages there really are! I guess this is why I maintain that Marriage is way over-rated! So I'd like to see the comparison stats on people who are 'happily single'? I think the problem is that in our society today...EVERYONE is unhappy, with just a few exceptions. I don't think that this is symptomatic of marriage...it's symptomatic of our society in general. That's why everyone's being treated for depression, ED, you name it.
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