KillaPetehog Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 This is an article by a user named Angstrom on a dating discussion forum. It is a post that resolves the questions most men have about men who are stuck in the "friends" box. If you are a guy, this article may help. It's an article many women will disagree with, but if you are a guy, I think it will answer most of the questions that you have. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- You made a mistake. Became friends with a girl you knew you were attracted to. You've probably already surprised the hell out of her by telling her that you're interested in her. She thought about it for a while, and ultimately turned you down, giving you an excuse like, "We work so well as friends, I wouldn't want to screw anything up." or some other bullshyt excuse which all boils down to "I'm just not attracted to you." Do Not Become Friends With A Woman You Are Not Having Sex With. This does not mean that you can't be friendly to women. When you meet a woman, she rates you just like you rate her... You do rate women, even if you don't do it consciously, and they do the same. You're lying to yourself if you think that you don't get rated the instant any woman meets you. Here's what this means to you. If she's single and she says she just wants to be friends, or if you two just "end up" being friends she has just told you, "Boy, you came close to being the right guy for me, but you sure are ugly." Maybe it's not physically ugly. Her reasons aren't important. What is important is that you realize that this relationship is OVER. Don't BS yourself. You know that if you really like her, you're never going to stop thinking she's whatever it is that makes you want her. If you do ever stop feeling like that, she's obviously not what you thought she was, and you shouldn't be with her. You've heard the saying "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." I used to be the kind of guy who thought, "I want to meet a girl who I can talk about anything with, who I can be best friends with, and have fun with." I'm man enough to admit that I was wrong. Having the woman you're involved with be everything rolled into one, being a friend, lover, confidant and more, is a Bad Idea. Friends and Lovers should be kept, more or less, separate. Your friends are the guys you go out and have a beer with, or watch the game with. You want to hang out with your friends, not bend them over a table and have your way with them. Understand here, that I'm not saying that a lover should be chosen on looks alone. Compatibility is one of the keys to a successful long-term relationship. You've heard that opposites attract? Don't believe the hype. It's true that opposites attract, the problem is that they attract fights, and arguments. Of course, if that's what you're looking for, knock yourself out. Talk to your girlfriend or wife. Enjoy the same things. Have common interests, but be diversified. Do things with her, but also make sure to do things with other people, and you'll appreciate her that much more. "This is all great," you say, "but what about me? I became friends with a girl, and then asked her out and she said no. I really don't want to lose my friend!" Too late. It sucks, but you have to completely cut off the friendship. Nobody is going to stay with a complete jerk for long, just like nobody will be interested in someone who is a complete pushover for long (if ever!). What you need to be, is a Man. You need to be a Man for your own happiness, emotional well being, and self-esteem. In this case, being a Man means biting the bullet, and moving on. By asking her out, you've made it apparent that you're interested in more than just being friends with her. When she said no, she told you that you and she want different things out of the relationship. You're not going to change her mind; she's not going to come around. Why would you want to be with someone who needed to be convinced of why she likes you? When you're serious about a woman, do you really want to spend the next few years, or the rest of your life with someone who had to be talked into it? The instant you make your feelings clear to her, get turned down, and keep spending time with her, she begins USING you. She may not intend to use you, but that's exactly what she's doing. You have just been crystallized in the role of "boyfriend lite". You've got all the taste of a boyfriend, but no calories (You're not getting any!). What you are doing is giving her the license to go have sex with whomever she wants at your expense. How? You're fulfilling the emotional role of a boyfriend. Now she's got that taken care of. You know you're not having sex with her, so what does she do? She goes out and hooks up with random guys. It gets better though! After she's done doing whatever with whomever, because you and her are such good friends, guess who she's going to come share her stories with first? You ! There is absolutely no logical reason to continue a relationship with her. Every time she meets and hooks up with a random guy instead of you, she's saying to you that you're not good enough. You've been judged, and found wanting. This girl is saying to you "You're not good enough for me to want to have sex with, but this guy I met at a party and knew for half an hour was DEFINITELY good enough." If you're okay with lusting after her, standing idly by while a woman you're emotionally interested in has sex with other men, then STOP READING. If you've got any balls at all, you're going to realize that this is not right, and you're not going to put up with it. There is absolutely no reason to PUT YOURSELF THROUGH this kind of torture. That's exactly what you're doing. Torturing yourself, degrading yourself, and then coming back for more. A Man doesn't do that. A doormat does that, a wimp does that, YOU do NOT do that. You are a Man. Think it, Know it, Believe it and you will become one, even if you aren't right now. So you've realized you need to get rid of this cancer in your life. This is the hard part, the painful part. You're friends, she's great. Of course she is, you wouldn't have been interested in her otherwise! Chances are, she's going to try to talk you out of it. This is the Moment Of Truth. You don't have to like this part; you just have to do it. You're not going to let her use you. Every time she meets another guy, she's telling you that you just aren't good enough. Every time she has sex with another guy, she's going to come back and tell you about it. She is going to date other men. You and her are NOT going to date. Do you really want to hear about all the ways he's perfect for her, and you aren't? You're telling her to take a hike and she says, "I want to date you." Your heart leaps for joy, you hastily accept, and think to yourself say, "Great! I win!" Wrong! What you just did is agree to willingly and happily walk right into her trap (which she may not even realize she's laid). She pulled out the big guns. This is the atomic bomb of emotional manipulation. You do not want a woman you had to give an ultimatum to before she would consider you. She doesn't want you. If she really wanted to date you, when you asked her out initially she would have said yes. Do you really want to emotionally commit to a relationship in which your girl essentially said, "Well, I guess if I have to choose between having sex with you and not ever seeing you again, I guess I'll just have to buckle down and (ugh) have sex with you.. Can I keep my eyes closed?" It's just not worth it. By not making the healthy choice and moving on with your life, you're asking for a world of pain, stress, and depression. For what? You already have friends, ones who aren't using you, and who will still be there for you after this woman is gone. You can't be friends. It's not going to work. Make the right decision, be a Man and move on. I guarantee you, nobody is unique. There are billions of people on this planet, and you WILL find someone who is what you are looking for and is interested in you too. Just don’t burn bridges, women will lead you to other women.. Good luck, Angstrom (I added a couple paragraphs of my own at the end..to clear it up)
Brittanyjean06 Posted June 7, 2006 Posted June 7, 2006 I didn't read all of that post, and mainly it wasn't for me! But are you insisting that men not be friends with a woman, because there could always be the slightess attraction towards one of them, which ends up one liking the other, and one geting hurt?
Outcast Posted June 7, 2006 Posted June 7, 2006 If she's single and she says she just wants to be friends, or if you two just "end up" being friends she has just told you, "Boy, you came close to being the right guy for me, but you sure are ugly." Maybe it's not physically ugly. What a total load of crud. I married a friend. Dated other friends. Liked them at first but didn't see the potential until I knew them better. Didn't think them 'ugly' at all but didn't see how well we clicked until we knew each other well. And a LOT of marriages result from friendship. Here's how it works (for those who can't seem to be able to figure it out): as you spend more time with your friend, you uncover more good qualities, have more fun together, and find more reasons to like him until you've fallen in love. Not that hard to understand. It's the reason why married people should not befriend single people of the opposite gender - there's about umpteen zillion posts by people in affairs who started out as 'friends' thinking that nothing further would happen. Not realizing that familiarity, rather than breeding contempt, often breeds deep affection, passion, and love. Yes, sometimes a woman will say she wants to be just friends because she's not attracted. But that's by no means definite and things can change. However, if, after you've known her for some time, she hasn't changed her feelings for you, then the jig is definitely up.
guest Posted June 7, 2006 Posted June 7, 2006 I tend to agree with the post. I've friended guys who had nice personalities but were not attractive to me. This happened a lot when I was younger. When I was younger and relatively inexperienced at dating, I would send mixed signals & would date guys who weren't attractive but had cool personalities. I would agree to going out with them to avoid hurting their feelings--but that would happen anyway. As I've gotten older (am now 27) and wiser, I've learned not to turn on the charm to guys I'm not interested in "that way." We start as friends and that's it. Also, in keeping with my more mature mindset, I've friended a few guys not because of their appearance but because they aren't mature, responsible, etc. Only rarely will a girl develop true affection for the friend and want more. About 5% of the time, maybe less. Once a guy has been friended, he shouldn't continue to devote time, money and effort to the girl. Don't take her out to dinner or buy her gifts, thinking that if you stick around long enough that she'll change her mind. You can still talk to her--she might have cute friends who are interested in you. Play it cool and move on to someone more interested.
notmakingsense Posted June 7, 2006 Posted June 7, 2006 I more or less agree with this post, it is about how men should best protect themselves from suffering the fact that they've been labeled second best. However, given a man that then proceeds to go out and meet a hottie and the love of his life, being a friend with the woman who turned him down earlier is no problem -- provided she can handle his new situation And Brittany -- this doesn't mean that men can't be friends with women, it means that men can't remain friends with women that they've made a play for and been turned down.
GuestThatGuy Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 As a guy with female friends--some who I've rejected for romance and some who have rejected me--I can say the article has a major flaw. The "all or nothing" approach. That weakens the argument. Here's why. The author believes that guys cannot stay friends with ANY women who rejects their sexual or romantic interests. I call BS. It actually depends on the person you're dealing with, your levels of maturity, and what you each value most. If you can admit that you and the other person aren't going to fall in love/have sex/be together forever as soulmates, and you can still respect each other and get along, then you CAN find friendships if you choose to. Not a stone-cold guarantee, but I've seen it happen to me and others. The author also brings up the argument that a woman will tell you how perfect her other guys are compared with you. Let's be honest; do you really talk with members of the opposite sex about their sexual exploits? Odds are you don't do it much because you're not that interested. But if you do, you could risk hearing something you don't like. Then it's up to you to decide if you're willing to hear about those things. You can always tell a friend "hey, I'd prefer not to talk about this/ prefer that you share that with someone else," and a friend who respects you will respect your wishes. But if anyone is rubbing your face in what they've got when it's not you, by all means you deserve a better person in your life--friend or otherwise. And nobody should wait for someone to change their feelings when nothing's happening. It's common sense and self-respect. That said, the trap the author gets into is saying ALL women are going to be like that to guys they've rejected. And if you fall into THAT trap, you miss knowing people as people. You can have female friends while pursing other women for love and sex. You just make the choice of where to focus your time. I've known many women who I'm glad I didn't get involved with after an initial attraction because I realized they weren't what I wanted in the long haul. Yet some of them had great qualities for friendship, and I have remained friends with several because we share interests, experiences, common lifestyles, family histories, etc. (And usually I could care less about who they're with now, so we don't often talk about that.) Sure, guys can have their guy friends and women can have their female friends for their own things. We all need balance. But to put the "all or nothing" spin on male and female friendships is very extreme and unrealistic. It makes me wonder if the author has been clinically depressed. Sex and friendship are not impossible to share. Several friends of mine who have been couples for 10 years or more enjoy that great combination. And the best of those couples are men and women who have their own interests and lives outside of their loving relationship. They enjoy what they share as much as what they don't share. And the "rejection to acceptance" change also can occur. I just came back from my high school reunion where a female classmate had dated a guy years ago, they remained friends when she married another man, then a year after her divorce she started seeing that guy from before and they are now married. Did anyone expect that? I doubt it, but it happened. Unlikely? Sure. Impossible? Hardly. It's that balance of maturity, respect and values. Another friend (a woman) has said the she believes true love is "friendship on fire." I couldn't have put it better. That Guy
Outcast Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Another friend (a woman) has said the she believes true love is "friendship on fire." I couldn't have put it better. Exactly. ............................
alphamale Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 lets beat the already dead horse another 10 times. this issue has already been covered 1,000 times.
SmoochieFace Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 lets beat the already dead horse another 10 times. this issue has already been covered 1,000 times. The horse is *dead* simply because the detractors and naysayers refuse to face reality in the first place - the reality that these *guides* on how not to be friends with women, blah blah blah, are absolute bull.
ronnieromance Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I don't think he's condoning an all or nothing approach, as in "there are no exceptions". I think he is saying, if you are interested in a woman, and she is not reciprocating, you are bound to get hurt. Don't be a doormat. Just walk. Sounds true to me given the caveat that romance was the original intent. -R-
bm2092004 Posted July 4, 2006 Posted July 4, 2006 So, why exactly shouldn't we be able to tell females everything and be comfortable with it. Let me tell you something, my best friend happens to be a female, and we've been best friends for almost 10 years now. I've told her more than I've ever told any guy, and there have been NO problems.
Guest Posted July 4, 2006 Posted July 4, 2006 A good question would be if you have or had feelings with the girl, your best friend. Your friendship might have lasted for a long time due to the fact that there was no romantic emotion involved. Have you ever told somebody you had a crush on and spilled your feelings, the trouble with your family, etc. in just a few weeks of meeting them? The main poster was just trying to tell the guys who are chasing women who consider them only as friends to stop and protect themselves. In order to further a relationship, both must agree to take it up a notch. By hanging around your just "fulfilling the emotional role of a boyfriend" but not getting the perks of being one. But of course there are exception but generally i have to agree with the KillaPetehog
Curmudgeon Posted July 4, 2006 Posted July 4, 2006 Nope! It lost me at, "Do Not Become Friends With A Woman You Are Not Having Sex With." I was friends with a woman for five years, enjoyed her company, conversation was easy for us, we challenged one another intellectually, etc. We did not have sex with one another. Now we're married and we do but we are still great friends.
clandestinidad Posted July 4, 2006 Posted July 4, 2006 Oh goody....another post containing severely generalized and opinionated, perhaps even bitter, babblings of a poor lonely soul, trying to 'teach' other possibly lost souls how to behave....... You forgot something else.....the world and the events which occur on it, do not take place in a vaccuum. There are too many other possibilities in life and situations, making arguments/lessons such as these pointless. You have to take each individual situation into consideration. What applies in one situation does not frequently/always apply in another....do you know why??? Because NO 2 people are alike in any way, shape, form, thought, or behavior.
bm2092004 Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Mary3, Yes, the last line or two of my post were a bit, no, they were extremely unnecessary. And I'd like to apologize for that. Just too many feelings bottling up, wrong place to take it out, sorry.
Mary3 Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Mary3, Yes, the last line or two of my post were a bit, no, they were extremely unnecessary. And I'd like to apologize for that. Just too many feelings bottling up, wrong place to take it out, sorry. I accept your apology. Remember we are a positive group here and want to help you .
stoopid_guy Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 Here's how it works (for those who can't seem to be able to figure it out): as you spend more time with your friend, you uncover more good qualities, have more fun together, and find more reasons to like him until you've fallen in love. Not that hard to understand. It's the reason why married people should not befriend single people of the opposite gender - there's about umpteen zillion posts by people in affairs who started out as 'friends' thinking that nothing further would happen. Not realizing that familiarity, rather than breeding contempt, often breeds deep affection, passion, and love. Very well said!
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