ThumbingMyWay Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 I had a dream the other night…. in this dream, I finally ran into my wifes exOM. But I cant remember what I did or said to him in my dream. Weird cause I remember having the dream when I woke up…but not what took place in my dream. So the last few days I have been wondering what I would do if I ever ran into him. And I have decided to do/say this when I do see him again….whether its next week or 2 years from now. “Well, so we meet again. I have one thing to say to you and I don’t need to hear any response from you. My mind tells me to hate you and beat you. It tells me to ruin your life by telling your wife and children what kind of man you really are. Vengeances for you rules my mind. But, my heart and my spirit tells me to forgive you for what you have done to me, my wife and my family. The dynamics of my marriage are changed forever because of YOU. BUT, because I have faith in Jesus and because I try everyday to do what he would do in any given situation, then I must forgive you so that I too can be forgiven. God says “I will take vengeance, I will repay those who deserve it”. So I choose to put my vengeance in the hands of my savoir and have faith that he will redeem me. All I can do is place shame upon you and hope that you will change your ways and get right with God. Because the beating I’d like to give you will be nothing compared to what God will give you. So take heed in what I say and I will pray for you.” and this is my motivation Romans 12:17,20-21 Never pay back evil for evil to anyone…..”If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink, and they will be ashamed of what they have done to you.”…..Dont let evil get the best of you, but conquer evil by doing good. God gave us Free Will….but once you become AWARE of it, I never realized it would be so hard. My body and spirit are at struggle everyday. I try to take the straight path and be humble, but the pride in my body wants me to stray. I pray every day for God to give me strength to do the right thing….to follow the truth, to love everyone who knocks me down.
Pyro Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 I had a dream the other night…. in this dream, I finally ran into my wifes exOM. But I cant remember what I did or said to him in my dream. Weird cause I remember having the dream when I woke up…but not what took place in my dream. So the last few days I have been wondering what I would do if I ever ran into him. And I have decided to do/say this when I do see him again….whether its next week or 2 years from now. “Well, so we meet again. I have one thing to say to you and I don’t need to hear any response from you. My mind tells me to hate you and beat you. It tells me to ruin your life by telling your wife and children what kind of man you really are. Vengeances for you rules my mind. But, my heart and my spirit tells me to forgive you for what you have done to me, my wife and my family. The dynamics of my marriage are changed forever because of YOU. BUT, because I have faith in Jesus and because I try everyday to do what he would do in any given situation, then I must forgive you so that I too can be forgiven. God says “I will take vengeance, I will repay those who deserve it”. So I choose to put my vengeance in the hands of my savoir and have faith that he will redeem me. All I can do is place shame upon you and hope that you will change your ways and get right with God. Because the beating I’d like to give you will be nothing compared to what God will give you. So take heed in what I say and I will pray for you.” and this is my motivation Romans 12:17,20-21 Never pay back evil for evil to anyone…..”If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink, and they will be ashamed of what they have done to you.”…..Dont let evil get the best of you, but conquer evil by doing good. God gave us Free Will….but once you become AWARE of it, I never realized it would be so hard. My body and spirit are at struggle everyday. I try to take the straight path and be humble, but the pride in my body wants me to stray. I pray every day for God to give me strength to do the right thing….to follow the truth, to love everyone who knocks me down. Thats good stuff. That is the problem with our free will, it tends to try and convince us to do the wrong thing. Just resist and be the better person.
whichwayisup Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Actually, I think you'd just give him a real dirty look and not say a word. Giving him ANY info about you and your wife isn't good. He's not worthy of that information.
Chump64 Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Thumbing, are you saying the OM's wife does not know? I have strong feelings about that. I always think the cheated spouse should have the full story. I think your best bet is to simply stare the guy down and say nothing. (My husband has driven past the OW's husband while dropping kids off at school, and just having to do that and see his face was torture enough.) I really do think you should tell the OM's wife, though. She deserves to know, and for a whole host of reasons. I have seen the OW once since D-day. I was sitting in my car picking up my husband for a lunch date and she drove by (they work in the same building, but my husband's office is moving out soon). I wish I had stuck my head out the window and glared at her. That's all I ever plan to do if I see her -- glare at her. If she initiates contact with me some day, I have a lot of things I will say to her. But I doubt that she will. I think she's askeerd of me. On D-day, I sent her a memo letting her know that I'd tell her hubby if she didn't. I also said I regretted that I'd have to see her face around town, and asked her to please steer a wide berth around me in this community.
Guest Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 "The dynamics of my marriage are changed forever because of YOU." Thumbing...Aren't the dynamics of your marriage also forever changed because of your wife? We ALL fall short of the glory of God irregardless of whether or not our sins are as "technicolor" as infidelity~~ Do I think the OM's spouse should know? Yes, I do, however, God exposes in his timing not ours. You are right in that vengeance is the Lord's but when you say... "All I can do is place shame upon you and hope that you will change your ways and get right with God..." Shame is straight from the pit of hell--not from God. It doesn't sound like the desire of your heart is for this person to "get right with God" at all. It sounds like you are filled with hate for this person and that's not redemption, its self righteousness. Every one of us is capable of unconscionable sin and to think otherwise is self deceptive. "take heed in what I say"... This also doesn't sound like a place of humility and you can be sure that's not what Jesus would do. First and foremost He meets us where we are. We may very well see the people who have hurt us the deepest in heaven--that's the gift of the gospel. Only God knows our hearts. I am a believer as well Thumbing so you can let me have it for my reply if you feel its necessary. I know the pain you are in from my own experience and I also know the God you serve wants to free you from the hate you harbor for the xOM~~ Satan, on the other hand, would love to see you cling to it. Are you being completely honest when you say "hope that you will change your ways and get right with God" because the tone of your post sounds like you'd be a lot more delighted to see this person not get right with God. I know that feeling but I also know that if people in my life didn't hold me accountable to my motives then I'd be in big trouble.
Mz. Pixie Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Actually, I think you'd just give him a real dirty look and not say a word. Giving him ANY info about you and your wife isn't good. He's not worthy of that information. I agree. You know, TMW- he may be like me in some ways. I have asked my Savior for forgiveness and my exhusband and I feel that I have been forgiven. Sure, in a perfect world he should ask for your forgiveness- but do you really think he's got the guts to do so???
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted June 5, 2006 Author Posted June 5, 2006 Actually, I think you'd just give him a real dirty look and not say a word. Giving him ANY info about you and your wife isn't good. He's not worthy of that information. you know me all too well. and to be honest, I really dont know what I will do. I guess what I posted is what I feel...what I do when I am presented the opp to confront him....well, I really dont know. A cold hard glare of disgust may just be it. But writing and thinking what I would say may just be good enough in lieu of actually verbalizing it.
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted June 5, 2006 Author Posted June 5, 2006 Thumbing, are you saying the OM's wife does not know? I have strong feelings about that. I always think the cheated spouse should have the full story. I nor my wife have told her. Wether or not OM has I do not know....but I highly doubt it. I too believe they should know...and we contempated telling her when this all came down....but we did not. And still havent, and it will be 2 years this July. Not sure what good it would do now.
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted June 5, 2006 Author Posted June 5, 2006 Sure, in a perfect world he should ask for your forgiveness- but do you really think he's got the guts to do so??? NO...he has not asked for forgiveness....and when I see him I doubt he would ask for it. I;m sure he will say he is sorry, but ask forgiveness I doubt it. I guess I need to forgive him for myself, so I do not harbor it anymore....at least I know I did my part in the eyes of God by forgiving those who done me wrong
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted June 5, 2006 Author Posted June 5, 2006 "The dynamics of my marriage are changed forever because of YOU." Thumbing...Aren't the dynamics of your marriage also forever changed because of your wife? yes, my wife is at fault too. And I forgave her and she is remorseful and humbled by her actions. She is well aware of what she has done, and she lives with it everyday. A burden I wish she didnt have, cause it wears on her greatly. BUT WE are together and moving forward. I have had closure with my wife......but not with OM. We ALL fall short of the glory of God irregardless of whether or not our sins are as "technicolor" as infidelity~~ Do I think the OM's spouse should know? Yes, I do, however, God exposes in his timing not ours. You are right in that vengeance is the Lord's but when you say... "All I can do is place shame upon you and hope that you will change your ways and get right with God..." Shame is straight from the pit of hell--not from God. It doesn't sound like the desire of your heart is for this person to "get right with God" at all. It sounds like you are filled with hate for this person and that's not redemption, its self righteousness. Every one of us is capable of unconscionable sin and to think otherwise is self deceptive. Well of course I harbor hate for this OM, its the earthly human way to hate...but I also have a spirit that wants to let go of the hate. And if shame is from hell, then why would God say what he said in what I quoted from Romans? If helping your enemies does not place shame upon them, then why would God ask us to help them? He does so, because he wants them to feel shame for there actions. "take heed in what I say"... This also doesn't sound like a place of humility and you can be sure that's not what Jesus would do. First and foremost He meets us where we are. We may very well see the people who have hurt us the deepest in heaven--that's the gift of the gospel. Only God knows our hearts. I guess my point there is a warning per say.....that he should look within and get right and get TRUTH. I am a believer as well Thumbing so you can let me have it for my reply if you feel its necessary. I know the pain you are in from my own experience and I also know the God you serve wants to free you from the hate you harbor for the xOM~~ Satan, on the other hand, would love to see you cling to it. Are you being completely honest when you say "hope that you will change your ways and get right with God" because the tone of your post sounds like you'd be a lot more delighted to see this person not get right with God. I know that feeling but I also know that if people in my life didn't hold me accountable to my motives then I'd be in big trouble. Hello Brother....NO, I wont let you have it....I enjoy other believers POV, I cherish it. And you may be right, there is a part of me that wants the OM to feel the pain I felt. its that a good attribute for a believer?, NO it is not. But the free will I have shows through sometimes. Satan if you will, may still have parts of me....but I try to live thru my spirit. And maybe, just maybe by forgiving him without him asking, would be a way for me to let go of the hate.
whichwayisup Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 you know me all too well. and to be honest, I really dont know what I will do. I guess what I posted is what I feel...what I do when I am presented the opp to confront him....well, I really dont know. A cold hard glare of disgust may just be it. But writing and thinking what I would say may just be good enough in lieu of actually verbalizing it. Really eh? Scary... I know (sort of) how you feel about wanting to DO something out of spite. I know myself well enough that I'd never actually follow through - But a while back at my previous job, there was a guy I worked with who was SUCH an a**h***. He just would push ever button in me to PISS ME OFF. Boy, I used to think of terrible things to do to him, to his car (like pour sugar in his gas tank!) cuz it was his prized possession. Just thinking about it was good enough for me. I have had closure with my wife......but not with OM. Just fantasize of beating the crap out of him. If you workout and use a punching bag, think of him while punching away! I'm sure letting off steam that way will relieve you of those thoughts...If you have 'em...
Chump64 Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 I would really be struggling a lot more if my OW’s husband was oblivious. I’m not saying you should tell the husband at this point, but maybe you should have when you first found out. My motive was to make all parties aware so that everyone knew about the affair and that it could no longer thrive in secrecy / so that everyone would know the truth about their own marriages. That said, I was also damn glad to see this woman having to face her husband and deliver the painful truth about herself. Especially since I heard she was practically beside herself over the fact that she had to tell him, or I would have. Twisted or not, that helped me a lot, given all the times she’d snuck into my house for a nooner with my husband. (Of course he holds 99 percent of the blame for the whole mess. I’m just sayin’.) I hope that people who discover infidelity will read this and tell the other person’s spouse the truth. Not only is it the right thing to do, it provides a small sense of justice. Thumbing, I’ve been reading a book called “How can I forgive you.” It might be useful to you. You don’t have to forgive this other man’s actions, but in the end, it might be a “release” for you, if it’s really holding you back and keeping the anger boiling. You might check out that book. If you are a very religious person, you may not like it, however. The author does not hold the view that others deserve forgiveness just because it’s the godly thing to do.
whichwayisup Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 I’m not saying you should tell the husband at this point, but maybe you should have when you first found out. You mean the OM's wife. Not the husband...lol sorry, I'm giddy today.
reservoirdog1 Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Shortly after WXW and I separated, I sent OM#2 (the worst offender, long story short) an all-but-threatening letter. I know he got it because he told a mutual friend about it. In the letter, I warned him to avoid me from that day forth, and to see to it that, as far as I'm aware, he doesn't exist. Signed it, "f*** you, you c**t". Never received a reply. I wondered after that, for the ensuing two years, what my reaction would be if I ever encountered him again. Would I snap and beat the s*** out of him? Say something to him? Ignore him? But, about five months ago, I saw him across a crowded sushi restaurant. He saw me as well. No words were exchanged, nothing else happened. I simply locked eyes with him and held that until he was out of my field of vision. Not sure what would happen if we encountered each other on the street. Enough time has passed that I'm not preoccupied with thoughts of revenge anymore, but who knows what might happen.
Guest Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 "Well of course I harbor hate for this OM, its the earthly human way to hate...but I also have a spirit that wants to let go of the hate. And if shame is from hell, then why would God say what he said in what I quoted from Romans? If helping your enemies does not place shame upon them, then why would God ask us to help them? He does so, because he wants them to feel shame for there actions." I was talking about the shame we carry around after repentence... I think God wants us to feel conviction that leads to repentence but if our intent to forgive is to inflict shame then I think we've missed the point of Romans. Please don't hear me say I don't harbor hatred at times in my circumstances--I DO--I have to give my hardened heart back to God every day of my life--sometimes several times a day! I just have to keep remembering that's what he died for--my hard heart. "Hello Brother....NO, I wont let you have it....I enjoy other believers POV, I cherish it. And you may be right, there is a part of me that wants the OM to feel the pain I felt. its that a good attribute for a believer?, NO it is not. But the free will I have shows through sometimes. Satan if you will, may still have parts of me....but I try to live thru my spirit. And maybe, just maybe by forgiving him without him asking, would be a way for me to let go of the hate." Amen! I don't believe Satan has a bit of you-- I think hatred is going to continue to creep into our hearts as long as we're on this side of heaven. I battle it daily and just when I've believed I've laid it down its there again. We slip so easily into walking in the flesh. I honestly do understand the desire to inflict pain--we're created in the image of God so we are created to long for justice. I know you would agree that its when we lose sight of our own depravity that we take the seat of judge. Thank the Lord someone a lot more merciful than I could ever be is on the throne!!
whichwayisup Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 I simply locked eyes with him and held that until he was out of my field of vision. That had to be a real powerful feeling to stare him down. I'm sure he felt the hate glare too.
Trimmer Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 yes, my wife is at fault too. And I forgave her and she is remorseful and humbled by her actions. She is well aware of what she has done, and she lives with it everyday. A burden I wish she didnt have, cause it wears on her greatly. BUT WE are together and moving forward. I have had closure with my wife......but not with OM. TMW - I ask this question to contribute to this interesting discussion, not as a criticism: wouldn't the best, most truly complete closure you could achieve with the OM come by offering the same forgiveness as you did your wife? Even without it being external, just within your own heart? And in case anyone questions my credentials for making such a suggestion , yes, I've been through the long speeches in my head about how my STBXW's OM knowingly inserted himself into a family with kids, and gloating pronouncements about the fact that I know (from my detective work) more about him and what he did with my wife than he realizes I know, etc.... Wondered, when passing him on the road in our small town here, what it would be like to run my car into his in a moment of blinding rage... I have imagined various manners of bad fortune befalling him... Even imaginined that karma will deliver him what he deserves without my help. (Not so much a believer here, although I have acquired an agreeable familiarity with the pertinent passages of Romans.) In the end, maybe I'm just a wuss, but none of those images brings me true satisfaction. The only time I find purity, calm, is when I just let him go. Mz. Pixie asked earlier whether the OM would likely have the guts to ask for forgiveness. I ask myself whether I would have the guts to offer it if asked...
Sup Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 I had a dream the other night…. in this dream, I finally ran into my wifes exOM. But I cant remember what I did or said to him in my dream. Weird cause I remember having the dream when I woke up…but not what took place in my dream. So the last few days I have been wondering what I would do if I ever ran into him. And I have decided to do/say this when I do see him again….whether its next week or 2 years from now. “Well, so we meet again. I have one thing to say to you and I don’t need to hear any response from you. My mind tells me to hate you and beat you. It tells me to ruin your life by telling your wife and children what kind of man you really are. Vengeances for you rules my mind. But, my heart and my spirit tells me to forgive you for what you have done to me, my wife and my family. The dynamics of my marriage are changed forever because of YOU. BUT, because I have faith in Jesus and because I try everyday to do what he would do in any given situation, then I must forgive you so that I too can be forgiven. God says “I will take vengeance, I will repay those who deserve it”. So I choose to put my vengeance in the hands of my savoir and have faith that he will redeem me. All I can do is place shame upon you and hope that you will change your ways and get right with God. Because the beating I’d like to give you will be nothing compared to what God will give you. So take heed in what I say and I will pray for you.” and this is my motivation Romans 12:17,20-21 Never pay back evil for evil to anyone…..”If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink, and they will be ashamed of what they have done to you.”…..Dont let evil get the best of you, but conquer evil by doing good. God gave us Free Will….but once you become AWARE of it, I never realized it would be so hard. My body and spirit are at struggle everyday. I try to take the straight path and be humble, but the pride in my body wants me to stray. I pray every day for God to give me strength to do the right thing….to follow the truth, to love everyone who knocks me down. If God DOES exact revenge in this matter, It may not only be to OM, but also your wife. No offense. She was also a willing participant.
sylviaguardian Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 TMW - I ask this question to contribute to this interesting discussion, not as a criticism: wouldn't the best, most truly complete closure you could achieve with the OM come by offering the same forgiveness as you did your wife? Even without it being external, just within your own heart? And in case anyone questions my credentials for making such a suggestion , yes, I've been through the long speeches in my head about how my STBXW's OM knowingly inserted himself into a family with kids, and gloating pronouncements about the fact that I know (from my detective work) more about him and what he did with my wife than he realizes I know, etc.... Wondered, when passing him on the road in our small town here, what it would be like to run my car into his in a moment of blinding rage... I have imagined various manners of bad fortune befalling him... Even imaginined that karma will deliver him what he deserves without my help. (Not so much a believer here, although I have acquired an agreeable familiarity with the pertinent passages of Romans.) In the end, maybe I'm just a wuss, but none of those images brings me true satisfaction. The only time I find purity, calm, is when I just let him go. Mz. Pixie asked earlier whether the OM would likely have the guts to ask for forgiveness. I ask myself whether I would have the guts to offer it if asked... Good point Trimmer. I like to think that if I ever encountered the OW again that success for me would be being able to look right at her without my heart rate going up. To me, the OW is nothing now. Sure, I had fantasies (not violent ones, I hate violence) but about exposing her and taking away her 'facade of success'. Anger shows deep feelings and I would never let the OW know that I even think about her at all (I try not to and am pretty successful). In my mind she's a bit-part actor who walked on and walked off the stage and might have changed the course of the play, but is not important in her own right. Sylvia
Mz. Pixie Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 Mz. Pixie asked earlier whether the OM would likely have the guts to ask for forgiveness. I ask myself whether I would have the guts to offer it if asked... Well, when I asked my exhusband denied it. Hopefully he will one day wake up and see that he partly was to blame for the demise of our marriage and be able to try and forgive me. My pastor says that not forgiving someone who has wronged you will keep you from being forgiven..........not sure exactly what he means by that- are there references that say it will keep you from heaven?? As far as my OM's wife- she has forgiven me- and it's a wierd situation because they have a strange marriage- but I know she has forgiven me- that's all I can say. Being abused growing up by my mentally ill mother and sexually abused by my stepfather has made me very aware of needing to forgive. Because I've had about the worst one can have dealt to them- every kind of abuse that there is- and I lived through it- I found it very hard to forgive. My therapist I had in my late 20's told me that it would be great if my parents would ask for my forgiveness- but I had to come to the place where I knew that that might not ever happen and that I should forgive them for myself. It took a long time but I did tell my mother I forgave her before she died- I forgave my stepfather as well but I never told him before he died- and it doesn't bother me- because neither of them DESERVED my forgiveness. Yet, I certainly have not ever done one thing to DESERVE the fact that Christ shed his precious blood on the cross for me- and if there would have been only me he would have done it just the same. So, how can I sit and say that someone doesn't deserve forgiveness when faced with that example?? I just can't.
Author ThumbingMyWay Posted June 6, 2006 Author Posted June 6, 2006 My pastor says that not forgiving someone who has wronged you will keep you from being forgiven..........not sure exactly what he means by that- are there references that say it will keep you from heaven?? there are several references and parables in the New Testiment that talk of forgiveness. Just look in a Bible that has a dictionary/concordance in the back and Forgiveness is listed and ref is given. It took a long time but I did tell my mother I forgave her before she died- I forgave my stepfather as well but I never told him before he died- and it doesn't bother me- because neither of them DESERVED my forgiveness. Yet, I certainly have not ever done one thing to DESERVE the fact that Christ shed his precious blood on the cross for me- and if there would have been only me he would have done it just the same. So, how can I sit and say that someone doesn't deserve forgiveness when faced with that example?? I just can't. aaahhh.....thats the zenith of the Good News of Christ. No matter what, we are forgiven, but we must have faith in our heart for Christ for this forgivness to take place. We must also let go of our pride in order to recive Gods grace. He basically says what you say....how can I forgive you, if you dont forgive others who done wrong to you? your right, you cant hold that grudge against others if you have Christ in your heart. Your spirit groans for you to drop your pride.....but our bodies and minds are ruled by earthly ways. The more I accept Christ, the harder it is.....I never realized how much pride and stubborness I have....but if i want to be free of my heavy burden, I MUST let go of my earthly desires and focus on LOVE for EVERYONE. Jesus summed up Gods Law (Ten Comandments) with this simple new law....JUST LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Simple as that...LOVE and TRUTH. Gods law came thru Moses....but truth and grace came thru Jesus Christ....and the more I believe the more i must let go my my pain and put it in his hands....becasue thats his gift to us, if we let him take it....we cant harbor it forever or we will never recieve grace from God when he judges us.
Mz. Pixie Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 Actually what I meant by receiving forgiveness only if you forgive others was that when you are saved- what does that mean if you don't forgive? What I'm saying is that I was saved at 8- before anything bad happened to me. Must I forgive to keep that salvation I had at 8?? My Bible says nothing shall separate me from my salvation- but then it also says I will not be forgiven if I do not forgive. Lots of confusing things which probably won't be answered until we're in Heaven! I'm making a list!
Recommended Posts