MsColorado Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 There are some really interesting posts on this thread. I think that while we may not be wired for monogamy - especially men, aren't they supposed to want to spread their seed and procreate as much as possible? - we are the smartest species on the planet (?????) and therefore we should all be using our brain more instead of other parts of our body. Infidelity is such a betrayal of the entire family, I really don't think people fully comprehend how much they are hurting everyone not just their spouse, but their kids, parents, in-laws, etc... Anyway, one note to the fact that women are cheating more now. I heard a therapist say that oftentimes when a woman cheats the marriage is in much more trouble than when a man cheats. Men are able to separate home life, work life, social life (without wife) and therefore they don't necessarily have to be in a floundering marriage to cheat - not talking about all men but there are some that are able to do this. Whereas, when the woman cheats - usually, not always - there are some serious issues at home and her needs are absolutely not being met and the marriage is much closer to divorce than her husband realizes.
BUTAFLY Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 Oh, I agree. I'm just saying there could be some biologically valid reasons why humans are not physiologically "wired" to stick with one mate (men especially). And even then, that would never condone infidelity. But believe me, I know about bad choices! Look chump64, I am sorry that you had to endore you husbands cheating, but he continously made that choice. I'm sorry that you chose not to notice it, but that doesn't mean everyone else in your life hasn't. ( Its hard to hide a 10 relationship with an OW. If a man is that dumb to cheat on a caring, loveing wife and mother to his children, then he is dumb enough to let his guard down and get very comfortable.) I'm sorry that this man has done a number on your selfworth. and i'm sorry that you buy into the notion that he is wierd to cheat. As for your comment how do i know?.... I was trying to saying I know monogomous, happy, fullfilled marriages and I also know of marriages riddled with problems and infidelity. I know the men. I know my father is truley and utterly in love with his wife and my brother adores his wife to the point it can make you seeing them starey eyed over eachother. Thats FACT take it or leave it. My point is, their are men out there that would not conceive of being unfaithful, hopefully one day you too can expeirence that kind of love.
Chump64 Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 I am pretty sure most of our family members and close friends would also say that they "know" we (husband and I) are madly in love and that there is no infidelity. The theater looks great but behind the stage, it's a different story. Butafly, I have posed some questions for you on the "revenge" thread. Please reply.
Chump64 Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 Butafly, why are you doing this? Why are you twisting the knife and being so continuously hostile? Tell me -- what have I done to you? I have not made any excuses for my husband. And why are you yammering on about my self worth? Where are you getting that? And if you want to play the "blame the victim" game, why is it that you chose not to see that your boyfriend was getting married, until the Tuesday before his Saturday wedding?
KittenMoon Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 There are some really interesting posts on this thread. I think that while we may not be wired for monogamy - especially men, aren't they supposed to want to spread their seed and procreate as much as possible? - we are the smartest species on the planet (?????) and therefore we should all be using our brain more instead of other parts of our body. Infidelity is such a betrayal of the entire family, I really don't think people fully comprehend how much they are hurting everyone not just their spouse, but their kids, parents, in-laws, etc... AMEN! While I may not be wired for monogamy, I personally choose it. I also choose to pee in a toilet, when in fact nature has wired me to pee wherever I damn well please. Natural wiring means very little to our species at this point, IMO.
whichwayisup Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 I also choose to pee in a toilet, when in fact nature has wired me to pee wherever I damn well please. Now that is funny! I'm gonna use that line of yours one day! Too funny!
catgirl1927 Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 AMEN! While I may not be wired for monogamy, I personally choose it. I also choose to pee in a toilet, when in fact nature has wired me to pee wherever I damn well please. Natural wiring means very little to our species at this point, IMO. This is just awesome. It's a very appropriate comparison!!!
michelangelo Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 Unless there was just one really bowlegged woman in each town, women have been cheating just as much as men have been forever. What has changed in modern, western society is that more women are admitting to it. In the past and in current islamic socieeties like in pakistan, women get offiicial death sentences for cheating. I don't believe that human nature has changed much in the last 10,000 years. Men have cheated, women have cheated. both genders make excuses. The people who do not cheat have self control when presented with the temptations.
ThumbingMyWay Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 I have heard that 60% of men cheat and 40% of women cheat. OR will cheat. With that said. Line out 10 married couples and 6 of the men and 4 of the women have or will cheat in some form. To me thats 100% of couples cheat. VERY SAD. and its everywhere....TV, movies, videos, etc.....its glorifed. and I honestly beleive that humans cant be monogamus. They just can stay with one person FOREVER....there is always something better or hotter or bigger. We have sooooo much temptaion in this world and people just cant say no. For me, I can, its a choice. I make a commitment and stick to it. Even if I had the opp to have NSA monkey sex with a beautiful woman. I mean, what if I was in a situ where someone thru themselves at me....cornered me and layed there and said, just do it and we dont have to tell anyone.....I WOULD RUUUUUNNNNN away so fast..... no one would know, yeah right, I WOULD KNOW....and God would know. My consicence would not allow me to betray anyone. I dont care what anyone says about it, "it just happens".....F-that.....Check yourself please.....or end your relationship
grateful Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 My cheating in my own relationship took me by surprise. I always thought I would have that self control. I was able to cut it off after a kiss. I'm in the process of trying to figure out why I did it. I say all this to say, I can now understand how common it is. You may think you're the kind of person to never do it, and then you surprise yourself (and not in a good way). And I agree it can happen in good relationships. I love my SO. He is all I could ask for and more. The thinking that men can comparmentalize but women can't therefore a woman's cheating indicates a serious problem is not true in my case. Sometimes I think I'm a cakewoman - just wanted some on the side. But whew, I need to get the self control to start peeing in the toilet... such a great analogy KittenMoon!
whichwayisup Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 NSA monkey sex WTF is NSA monkey sex?? That is cracking me up! Monkey sex!
Touche Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 I have heard that 60% of men cheat and 40% of women cheat. OR will cheat. With that said. Line out 10 married couples and 6 of the men and 4 of the women have or will cheat in some form. To me thats 100% of couples cheat. VERY SAD. and its everywhere....TV, movies, videos, etc.....its glorifed. and I honestly beleive that humans cant be monogamus. They just can stay with one person FOREVER....there is always something better or hotter or bigger. We have sooooo much temptaion in this world and people just cant say no. No, 100% of couples don't cheat. The trick is to marry someone who has that same self-control and morals/values that you do. My husband and I have been together for over 11 years and we haven't cheated. Not all couples cheat. For me, I can, its a choice. I make a commitment and stick to it. Even if I had the opp to have NSA monkey sex with a beautiful woman. I mean, what if I was in a situ where someone thru themselves at me....cornered me and layed there and said, just do it and we dont have to tell anyone.....I WOULD RUUUUUNNNNN away so fast..... no one would know, yeah right, I WOULD KNOW....and God would know. My consicence would not allow me to betray anyone. I dont care what anyone says about it, "it just happens".....F-that.....Check yourself please.....or end your relationship Not all couples cheat. To say 100% cheat is ridiculous. I've been with my husband for over 11 years and we've never cheated. The trick is finding someone to be with who has the SAME self-control and morals/values as you do.
whichwayisup Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 The trick is finding someone to be with who has the SAME self-control and morals/values as you do. I believe most DO find their partners have the same morals, beliefs and don't intend to cheat. It's just for some, life gets in the way, the negative s*** can take over and depending on how stable the marriage is, how easy or not easy the communication is - Situations can change and some people PUT themselves in situations where they are tested and CANNOT say no. I say, don't PUT yourself IN a stupid situation in the first place. But, obviously, for some, that's not always the case. It is a choice to cheat. Noone holds a gun to the head saying CHEAT on your spouse.
Chump64 Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 The trick is finding someone to be with who has the SAME self-control and morals/values as you do. But you know, a lot of people DO marry someone like this, who they think will be true to them. People change, things happen. There is a recent poster here (Littletown?) who has fallen into an emotional affair yet is 100 percent in love with her husband. It's just not as simple and cut/dried as we would like it to be. And Touche, an emotional affair IS very much infidelity. If you are confiding in someone other than your spouse, sharing intimate details of your life, having feelings for them -- just because there is no sex (yet), it is definitely time, energy and love taken away from the spouse or significant other.
Touche Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 The trick is finding someone to be with who has the SAME self-control and morals/values as you do. But you know, a lot of people DO marry someone like this, who they think will be true to them. People change, things happen. There is a recent poster here (Littletown?) who has fallen into an emotional affair yet is 100 percent in love with her husband. It's just not as simple and cut/dried as we would like it to be. I didn't say it's simple. Well, all I can say is that I've never had anyone cheat on me. And I've always chosen men who had my same values. And I'm not so sure I'd call an EA cheating exactly. But that's another thread. If it's an EA and she stops it then it's NOT an affair. I agree Witch. Cheating is a CHOICE.
whichwayisup Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 And I'm not so sure I'd call an EA cheating exactly. But that's another thread. If it's an EA and she stops it then it's NOT an affair. EA can do the same damage as PA's. Because of the feelings - It is deeper. Not just about sex. Look at Owl's situation a while back. His wife had an emotional affair - To him, PA or EA, the damage was the same, if not worse. Trust will always be an issue. It all depends too, on how long that EA has been going on too.
ThumbingMyWay Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 Not all couples cheat. To say 100% cheat is ridiculous. I've been with my husband for over 11 years and we've never cheated. The trick is finding someone to be with who has the SAME self-control and morals/values as you do. OK...not all cheat. my point was based on the numbers even if we say 60% of men and 40% of women, which may be high, but I doubt it.....you could pick 10 couples and in theory, 6 men have cheated, but there wives did not , and the other 4 couples , the wives cheated and the husbands did not. so to me that says out of these 10 couples, all of them have a cheater in the mix....wether is the man or the wife is this FACT, no.....but based on numbers it could be a possibility. I am just in a pissy mood today.....f***in cars....LOL
Chump64 Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 Touche, did you see my edit on that message above? ”And Touche, an emotional affair IS very much infidelity. If you are confiding in someone other than your spouse, sharing intimate details of your life, having feelings for them -- just because there is no sex (yet), it is definitely time, energy and love taken away from the spouse or significant other.” Are you saying that if two people express their love for each other, but don’t have sex, it’s not an “affair”?
grateful Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 But you know, a lot of people DO marry someone like this, who they think will be true to them. People change, things happen. There is a recent poster here (Littletown?) who has fallen into an emotional affair yet is 100 percent in love with her husband. It's just not as simple and cut/dried as we would like it to be. I agree 100%. I think there are a lot of posters that are very black and white about cheating. I can't tell you how many times I've read on LS that there is no way a cheater could love their SO. They they should have just left them because obviously they do not love their SO. I looooove my SO but still kissed someone else. It's just not always so simple and cut and dried. I know the problem is with me, not what my SO has done or hasn't done.
ThumbingMyWay Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 WTF is NSA monkey sex?? That is cracking me up! Monkey sex! no strings attached monkey sex. you know the kind...that unhibited crazy balls to the walls sweat your ass off SEX.....
Chump64 Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 Touche: sorry about all the codes. Let me try this again! Touche, did you see my edit on that message above? ”And Touche, an emotional affair IS very much infidelity. If you are confiding in someone other than your spouse, sharing intimate details of your life, having feelings for them -- just because there is no sex (yet), it is definitely time, energy and love taken away from the spouse or significant other.” Are you saying that if two people express their love for each other, but don’t have sex, it’s not an “affair"?
whichwayisup Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 Are you saying that if two people express their love for each other, but don’t have sex, it’s not an “affair" It's inappropriate behaviour for the married person to be confessing love or feelings for someone else WHILE being married! It opens the door and when one is married that door should NOT open at all. Hense the vows taken during the ceremony...
TheTallDarkStranger Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 NSA = "No strings attached" Monkey sex = sex with a monkey, I guess. Gotta side w 64 on this. You never know what goes on in someone else's marriage. I wonder if we did if would we all be REALLY cynical. Everybody has problems, and I would bet that a lot of crap goes undisclosed because 1)People don't want the world to think badly of them; and 2)We all have to get on with the day-today. You can talk about how 2 lovebirds are staring into each others' eyes, but it really don't mean jack. I've found out a few things about some people that have astonished me. You cannot tell a book by its cover AT ALL. Put it this way: if your *life partner* is capable of betraying you in the stupidest, most hurtful, selfish & insensitive way, and YOU DON'T EVEN SEE IT COMING: then how can you know what goes on with people you are less close to? Did that sound bitter? Well, it was MEANT to. People do stupid things for all kinds of reasons. Not to diminish infidelity, but there is also plenty of murder, child abuse and all other kinds of moral decreptitude that everybody knows is wrong, but some people insist on doing. F***ed up, eh?
whichwayisup Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 no strings attached monkey sex. you know the kind...that unhibited crazy balls to the walls sweat your ass off SEX..... Yeah I had relationship that was just like that in my teens. All just monkey sex - The only good thing! The rest of our relationship was s*** - Yet we couldn't end it because of the sex!
Touche Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 It's inappropriate behaviour for the married person to be confessing love or feelings for someone else WHILE being married! It opens the door and when one is married that door should NOT open at all. Hense the vows taken during the ceremony... Just because a door is opened, it doesn't mean you have to walk through it.
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