My sister inlaw is driving me crazy !

[frustrated_dude]

My wife is the older sister and has always "taken care of" her younger sister (I'll call her Dee). It seems like in my wife's eye's here sister can do no wrong and any time I criticize or say anything negative about her sister my wife gets real defensive and angry.

 

I know this sounds trivial, but it is driving me crazy and it has affected our marriage. Dee is not exactly a model citizen. She is on her 3rd marriage. She cheated on her 2nd husband with the doorman of her apt, got pregant and married the doorman. She is horrible with money, and is addicted to plastic surgery. She used to come over our house all the time until I couldn't take it anymore.

 

My wife and I went to therapy 2 years ago, which helped and now her visits are much less frequent, but I feel like my wife still holds resentment towards me. I really wonder if she still loves me.

[Tim'sAngel]

Hi dude! Welcome to LS!!

 

Wow, sil sounds like a real winner!! It's hard dealing with less than perfect family members. My mother went through that her entire marriage (20 yrs) w/my dads family. They put her through hell. The things is that you can't change your wife's mind about her family members. She will have to see if for herself, or she never will. Have you tried just sitting her down and pointing out the unhealthy things your sil is doing and how you feel it is affecting your marriage? Complaining and ridiculing is only gonna make her more defensive and you pretty much lose her. Try approaching it in a way she understands that your marriage is you best interest and you don't want anything to come between you 2. Just make sure she doesn't feel like your forbidding her to be apart of her sisters life. Thats really all the adivce I can think to give you. Good luck!

[SoleMate]

No question here that Dee is not going to be voted "Citizen of the Year". You're 100% right about her problems and bad behavior.

 

HOWEVER...is it really necessary for you to criticize Dee at all? What purpose is served by your criticism? Could you not just agree never to debate Dee's worthiness as a human being with your wife? And ask your wife to meet with Dee when you're not around.

 

I don't think you're going to win the debate. Your wife is not likely to break down and say, "You're right, Dee is a big creep, let's all shun her." Or even if you get her to say that, she won't truly believe it and WILL resent you. Your wife remembers the charming little girl she cared for, and she has a different POV. Not more correct (or less correct) than yours, just different. Like the 6 blind men "looking" at the elephant.

 

...I really wonder if [my wife] still loves me...

This is the heart of the issue, so forget about Dee. If you were confident in your wife's love, I doubt if you would care about the Dee thing. But it has turned into a competition.

 

Please read His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley to learn how to make mutual love with your wife last a lifetime. Also read The Feeling Good Handbook by David Burns to help you see that Dee is not the issue - the way you think about Dee is what really bothers you. Your mind is saying, "If my wife truly loved me, she would dump Dee." I'm telling you, your mind is out to lunch on that.

[Woggle]

Despite her problems that is your wife's sister and you should respect that. She is family so try to be civil around her.

[frustrated_dude]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I know my wife will never just ignore or not love her sister and I know I should just keep my mouth shut but it's not so easy.

 

Just this week, Dee had liposuction for the 6th time, despite the fact she is already in credit card debt and my wife "helps" her from time to time.

 

I do all our laundry. This week I saw my wife doing laundry. I was surprised, so I asked her "you're doing laundry ?", my wife replied, it's Dee's. She is recovering from her liposuction and asked me to do her laundry. Sorry, I couldn't keep my mouth shut. I very calmly stated I thought it was ridiculous for her to do Dee's laundry, especially since her husband could do it at their apartments laundry room. I received a bad look and got attitude for the next 2 days.

[SoleMate]

I very calmly stated I thought it was ridiculous for her to do Dee's laundry...

Oh.

 

You very calmly told your wife that her behavior was ridiculous.

 

What was your goal? Think about it.

 

Maybe what you really should have said was, "I can see you really care about Dee and want to help her. Sometimes I wonder whether you really care about me too. I'd love it if you would help me with the laundry."

 

Get my point?

[HokeyReligions]

Tell your wife that you feel like you are second to her sister and ask her if that is really the case. Tell her that you need to know - by actions and not just words - that you are first. Realize that doesn't mean she has to make a choice between the two of you, but that she married you and according to your wedding vows - you should come first in her heart and you don't feel that you are. The focus should be on you and your wife - Dee as a person is not part of it. If she were a great sister whom you had no problems with, you should still come first.

 

 

Ask you wife to think about it, and to think about how your wife could make some changes to demonstrate this to you, and tell her you are going to take some time to also think realistically what you would like her to do to demonstrate this AND what you can do to help her put you first and what would make you feel better in the marriage. She's always going to be the big sister - that will not change, but the two of you can think of some compromises for your marriage so that you can meet your needs and her needs.

 

Venting here on LS can be helpful - we all need an outlet sometimes and this is a good place for support and to just get it out of your system without venting on your loved ones. Your anger and frustration is not wrong - you need a place to channel it that won't hurt anyone's feelings.

 

Your wife sounds like a loving and caring sister and that is a good thing and may be one of the traits that you fell in love with - its just frustrating - maybe even painful - for you to see her love given to someone you don't respect and maybe even dislike or feel doesn't deserve her love. That tells me that you want your wife to be happy and you don't want her to be hurt. But you understand that what hurts you might not necessarily hurt your wife, and vice versa.

[frustrated_dude]

SoleMate: I see your point. Being calm was actually something good, I wanted to explode. I do my own laundry once a week because I run out of clean clothes. At that time I also do the towels sheets, etc.. My wife re-wears clothes, hand washes her delicates and does her laundry once a month. I've asked her to help out with the laundry, but that never happens. So....I was pretty pissed about her doing Dee's laundry.

 

Hokey, you hit a lot of things right on the head. Yeah, I am mainly venting because I can't keep it couped up inside me. I do think I am second to her sister. What bothers me is being 2nd to someone I don't respect.

 

We've been together for 11 years, married for 7. 3 years ago we bought a house. You know the saying "my house is your house", Dee took it literally. I would be busy doing house work and she'd be sitting on my couch eating my food and leaving a mess, every weekend. Things got difficult and we went to therapy. My wife was really hurt and said I made her family unwelcome. Things got better since we compromised and Dee now only comes over once or twice a month. Every Sunday my wife and Dee spend the day together. Although things got better, they haven't been like they were. My wife caters to Dee now more than ever.

[Magister]

Gosh guy, this is so sad. And you handled it totally wrong. Frankly, I don't see why you don't like your sister-in-law. If she wasn't going out with her who might she be going out with instead? Be nice to the woman, she is probably keeping your wife out of trouble.

 

See, you really just need to change your perspective. Next time you see your wife doing your sister's laundry, bring a couple loads of your laundry down, give your wife a kiss, and tell that someone who can get her to do the laundry can't be all bad.

 

Of course, if you really, really just have to get wife to get to send her sister away, the solution is obvious. Fall in love with the sister in law. You'll probably have to go to marriage counselling again, but the sister will be gone.

 

Talking is way over-rated. No point in talking to someone who doesn't even speak the same language.

 

PS if you do pull that maneuver, you better not tell your wife, ever. (Likelyhood of divorce under those circumstances is almost 100%.) Also, you better find your wife a new female friend fast or there is no telling who might fill that emotional void.

[frustrated_dude]

Gosh guy, this is so sad. And you handled it totally wrong. Frankly, I don't see why you don't like your sister-in-law. If she wasn't going out with her who might she be going out with instead? Be nice to the woman, she is probably keeping your wife out of trouble.

 

I try to keep an open mind, but it's the opposite. My wife tries to keep Dee out of trouble.

 

Maybe I am being too harsh, judgemental or blaming Dee for my problems.

 

However, it's not easy to deal with someone who constantly imposes themselves financially and into your home.

 

At what point does a parent stop supporting their child ? Dee is acting like the child and my wife the mother.

 

I know my wife will have to decide on her own when that time is, but it's tough to just sit by idle and wait.

 

Oh, and to vent some more, Dee puts makeup on her 4 year old. I know. Not my child, keep my mouth shut. Not easy.

[Shell Girl]

My sister and I are VERY close, and if my husband tried to keep her out of my life, it wouldn't take much time to figure out which one would be gone.

 

Just because your wife took a vow to love you doesn't mean she has to cut her sister out of her life. So what if she has had liposuction 6 times? She obviously is very insecure. So what if she screws around with the help? Again, she is obviouly insecure.

 

You have already limited your sister-in-laws involvement in your life, you can't cut her out entirely. If you keep it up, your wife will begin resenting you and that resentment will fester into hate.

 

I typically find that people who cannot stand other people, see the worst of themselves in that person. Unless she bites off puppy heads in her spare time, I'm sure she has some redeeming qualities. You may want to look upon this as an exercise to better yourself -- trying to look past your disgust of this individual and find the good qualities.

 

Keep your criticisms of your sister-in-law to your friends. I can guarantee you your wife sees all of her sister's flaws, but she loves her none-the-less, because she is FAMILY. Instead of focusing on how this is making you miserable (you come off as a selfish prig by the way), you may want to look into why you are jealous of her (how much of YOUR food can she be eating?) and see instead your wife who stands by her family no matter what (even having a selfish prig as a husband).

 

You need to reflect on the importance of family, and my dear, your sister in law is now YOUR family. DEAL WITH IT!

[frustrated_dude]

OK, I appreciate brutal honesty, and I'll take my medicine. Selfish prig, I'll admit to that in this situation. Who am I to get in between my wife and her sister ?

 

Jealousy ? Maybe. It goes both ways though. Nice idea about treating this as a challenge. Eating my food ? It's not the amount, it's the principle. Family or not. To me it is rude to go to someones house feed myself, my husband, my kid and leave a mess every weekend. It's rude to claim poverty, have my relatives help pay my bills, then go out and get liposuction. It's rude to bring my infant child to my relatives house every weekend and tell my relatives they have to be quiet because my kid is sleeping.

 

Challenge accepted. But I will still need to vent from time to time.

 

And I really do appreciate the helpful ideas and putting me in my place.

[mental_traveller]

Put your foot down - if you don't like her behaviour in the house, tell her to stop. If she refuses, explain that either she changes her behaviour, or she never comes back again. Explain to your wife why it's unacceptable. If your wife won't support your decision, go find a divorce lawyer, and once everything is in place, invite your wife to come along and ask her to choose whether she wants to support you or get a divorce.

 

You'll quickly find out whether your wife respects you or not. Once you lay down the law, she has to make that choice and then live with the consequences.

[SoleMate]

Put your foot down - if you don't like her behaviour in the house, tell her to stop.. it's unacceptable. If your wife won't support your decision, go find a divorce lawyer...

That's too extreme. Frustrated_dude is venting and we should not push him to divorce over an issue like this. The strongarm tactics mentioned above are for extreme situations only.

 

However, nothing like a small crisis to give your marital relationship a tuneup. Dude, why not read His Needs, Her Needs and start using some of their ideas? Also The Feeling Good Handbook. One of the ideas you will get is to never ever criticize Dee. In fact, stretch your mental faculties to the utmost and find something to say about her that's nice. Even if it's just, "You did a great job on your 4 year old's eyeliner!"

 

The point is, when you attack Dee, your wife is inevitably forced into defending her. When you defend Dee and stick up for her...maybe even push for her to have more privileges at your house and dump more chores on your wife...you will see a dramatic change in the dynamics of your marriage.

 

I don't see you as a selfish prig. Shell Girl has a germ of an idea, but like the other poster she blew it way out of proportion. I see you as a fairly reasonable man who would like to see more concrete evidence of being FIRST on his wife's list and in her heart, and really FEEL like a well-loved husband. Hence, the books.

 

But read the books first. And please keep posting/venting.

[frustrated_dude]

Put your foot down - if you don't like her behaviour in the house, tell her to stop. If she refuses, explain that either she changes her behaviour, or she never comes back again. Explain to your wife why it's unacceptable. If your wife won't support your decision, go find a divorce lawyer, and once everything is in place, invite your wife to come along and ask her to choose whether she wants to support you or get a divorce.

 

You'll quickly find out whether your wife respects you or not. Once you lay down the law, she has to make that choice and then live with the consequences.

 

Man you are harsh. I don't want a divorce.

 

I got my wife to agree to have Dee only come over once or twice a month. I mentioned what used to happen because some of the posters seem to be taking Dee's side.

 

I guess we all have a different opinion on what is rude and for the record, I don't want my wife to change her relationship with her sister.

 

I just weird and frustrating to me to see unconditional support. You can love someone yet still tell them when they do something wrong or rude.

[VegasFan]

Hey frustrated_dude, I totally understand what you're going through, and I sympathize, believe me. My sister-in-law has been testing my patience for years. She does the same thing as Dee; coming into our house and treating it like her own. When she comes over she doesn't even knock; she just tries to open the door. If it's open, she comes right in; if it's locked, she bangs until someone opens it. When she's inside she goes looking for something to eat or monopolizes the television. If the phone rings, she answers it like it's her own (that stopped finally, thank God). Even my wife and her parents hate the way she acts, but boy if anyone besides the immediate family says anything negative about her they all get defensive and come to her aid. It's sad, because they are enabling her behavior.

She has a victim complex too, so when I say anything to her about her bahavior she becomes very defensive and things get really dramatic. The only thing I've found that works is to make a brief comment to my wife anytime she does anything rude. The comment has to be brief and to the point though (rants get ignored). I have found that my wife will immediately do like your wife and get defensive and angry, but after a while she seems to see my point and corrects her sister (though she never admits this to me). My advice to you is to try the same thing: make calm (or just slightly annoyed) comments that are brief and to the point, then drop it. If your wife gets defensive, just let her. Then wait and see what happens. If she corrects her sister, then good. If she doesn't, then frankly I'd worry because she is not helping her sister at all (even though she thinks she is), and she is not respecting your marriage or you as a husband. Enabling rude and irresponsible behavior is not right, period.

[Guest]

Hey Vegas:

 

It's nice to see someone who knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

 

I'll try your ideas.

 

Thanks.

[frustrated_dude]

Fast foward update.

 

In December my wife announed she wanted a separation. Strangely, in the several months previous to this, we didn't argue much at all. Probably because I was keeping my criticism and comments about her sister in check.

 

Wife refused to go to marriage counseling, but we both are in single therapy (same therapist). Wife and therapist have concluded that her role as the "caretaker" of her sister and family has not only put a strain on our marriage, but also on her. She no longer feels like an independent person, but her identity is the family "caretaker".

 

My wife acknowledges that I am a good person and husband, but feels that she needs to separate from me and be on her own to straighten all this out. We still live together and I've given her the "space" she has requested, but she still maintains she will move out soon.

 

Therapists says it will take a long time for her to realize and change her role in her family, especially with them still pulling/tugging/relying/guilting on her to be the caretaker.

 

Sorry for the long message, but I needed to release some of this tension. I've been playing the supportive friend role and it is helping her, but it's not easy.

 

What is that Bob Marley song ? "I don't want to wait in vain for your love."

[frustrated_dude]

I need to vent.

 

Wife cooked dinner for the 1st time in 2 months. I thought, wow, this is great. I served myself a small bowl. It was delicious. I went to get more and was told sorry the rest is for my sister.

 

Sister came by, went to the bathroom, picked up the food and left. In the door and out in 5 minutes. I'm currently cooking myself frozen pizza.

 

Lord, give me strength.

[sumdude]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I happen to be on the other side of a very similar one. In my case it was my sister and mom treating my soon to be ex wife poorly. I allowed it to happen over and over instead of really listening to my wife's feelings about it. Standing up, saying enough is enough and protecting my wife. Three months ago my wife moved out and now wants a divorce. There comes a point where your spouse must come first. I realise i made the mistake of not really doing that and now regret it. Obviously your wife has chosen her sister over you. Also the fact that your SIL has been divorced she's likely advising your wife the same way. Don't fight it and give your wife what she wants. Let her know she can lose you!

 

That sucks but do it. Seems like you should start worrying about yourself. You may end up a lot happier without all this BS in your life. Think about the advantages to being away from it. Be positive about it. Find the gold nuggets buried in the bullsh**.

 

Oh yeah, don't see the same therapist! Bad idea in general IMHO. Can cloud things.

[littlekitty]

I need to vent.

 

Wife cooked dinner for the 1st time in 2 months. I thought, wow, this is great. I served myself a small bowl. It was delicious. I went to get more and was told sorry the rest is for my sister.

 

Sister came by, went to the bathroom, picked up the food and left. In the door and out in 5 minutes. I'm currently cooking myself frozen pizza.

 

Lord, give me strength.

 

Doesn't sound to me (from that incident) that your wife is making the necessary changes to move away from her undesired role in the family. She clearly still sees herself as the 'caretaker' and is finding it hard to move away from that.

 

Unfortuantely I think all you can do is give her the space and time to try to find what it is she wants.

 

The individual therapy will help you both deal with this.

 

Sucky situation to be in though...

[frustrated_dude]

My wife has made some progress in breaking away from being a caretaker, but her family is good at laying on the guilt and they are pulling on her harder now that they sense the change.

 

I don't think my SIL is intentially creating problems. I think it's just that she is so needy, jealous and has low self esteem.

 

I stopped seeing the therapist. The 1st few sessions helped me see what was going on with my wife, but the last several sessions were repetitive and she wasn't really offering any advice.

 

About a month ago I found a book and website called divorce busting that has really helped. I was shocked when I read what they called "a walkaway wife". It was so close to my situation that I decided to try their concepts. Be her friend, no relationship talk unless she brings it up, concentrate on the goal of reuniting and not on who is right or wrong. No guarantees, but things are better than they were. I just have to try to be patient and not let her family annoy me. Sometimes that is easier said than done.

[4whatItsWorth]

And now from the little sister's POW...

 

MY own brother does what you wish your wife would do to her own flesh and blood - shut her out. His girlfriend pretends I do not exist and avoids me whenever I am around. He takes her side and I despise him for it. My own fiance has a little sister, my age, and I want them to be CLOSE, I am willing to do anything to help her and be friends with her if I can - because I LOVE HIM and I can see he is a good person. She is a good person too. She has several boyfriends, issues and all sorts of problems - but HE loves her. She'll always be his little sister. And if any sibling care enough about their sibling to be there for them always then that is a thing to RESPECT and HONOUR.

 

I think it is disgraceful you put your own prejudice against her little sister. It's obvious she is insecure and her sister is all she has. You W is a saint for taking such good care of her sister - she might even be the only person who truly loves and wants what is best for her - and you are trying to sabotage that by saying "Your sister can only come around twice a month."

 

You should be ashamed of yourself. Instead of despising the sister, why not try to get to know her enough to see what your W sees in her? And if you can't do that - then just try to accept the sister will ALWAYS be the special little number one. Especially if you treat your Ws sister like she is an outcast and not wanted. I do think a spouse should be ranked high on the list - but you'll never ever make her stop loving her little sister. You will only make her stop loving you.

 

Perhaps you need therapy with your issues.

[4whatItsWorth]

I need to vent.

 

Wife cooked dinner for the 1st time in 2 months. I thought, wow, this is great. I served myself a small bowl. It was delicious. I went to get more and was told sorry the rest is for my sister.

 

Sister came by, went to the bathroom, picked up the food and left. In the door and out in 5 minutes. I'm currently cooking myself frozen pizza.

 

Lord, give me strength.

 

Alright, reading further in posts I can see your POW a bit. But still. I never saw in the wedding wovs it said "And you shall always cook your husband dinner." Cook your own food. It's not your Ws fault or SIL that you had frozen pizza. Why not cook for your W and say "perhaps some other time you could cook like this for me? That'd be nice - we could even do it together! Perhaps next saturday?"

 

Soz, still on the little sister side...but like I said, I see some POWs.

[frustrated_dude]

It's always good to hear another point of view.

 

I am by no means trying to cut my wife off from her sister. They spend every Sunday together religiously, we go on a week long vacation together every year.

 

I don't necessarily need to be #1 in my wife's eyes, a close #2 would be nice. What is disturbing is I told my wife I feel like I am #4 on her list, behind, Dee, her neice (Dee's daughter) and her mother. My wife concurred that was accurate and felt there was nothing wrong with that. Now that hurt.

 

I cook my own dinner everyday for the past 3 years, except on the once a month occassion my wife decides to cook. I do my own laundry every Sunday. When I've asked her to help out with the cooking and laundry she tells me she doesn't feel like doing it. I could live with this. What is bothersome is when Dee drops off her laundry for my wife to do, or when my wife cooks for her sister and I am only allowed to have a small bowl.

 

I'll take your criticisms, but forgeting about me for a minute, Dee's dependency on my wife is negatively affecting her too. My wife is in therapy to help her with her situation with her family. She feels exhausted dealing with her family drama and caretaking.

 

In the past, when she would complain about them, I would jump on the bandwagon because I interpreted that as permission to join in. I've learned, it's best just to support how she feels and not add fuel to the fire as this has resulted in my wife feeling I've attacked her family.