Iwanttohope Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 This is day 17 for me and I'm really not doing well. I have run the gamut from "he never really loved me and it was all lies" to "he truly did love me and I know it like I know I'm human". I continue to assume that his NC is a breeze while I'm near death. I want to ask him if he has had to make what we had all bad in order to banish me and work on going home...fruitless question I know but I feel so rejected! More background...we've known each other 2.5 years, involved for 7 months. We worked together for a while until I quit to put distance between us in January. If we had gotten caught we would've both been fired on the spot as we were both management. I know from mutual friends at work that he still has not gone home, is still in counseling and is trying to do everything he can to save his family for his three children--5, 2 and 6 months. He asked me on many different occasions if I would leave my daughter to be with him--in other words would I be able to do what I was asking him to do if the tables were turned. Honestly, unless I was in an abusive marriage I don't think I could do it and I was honest with him about that. They have been separated three times but he feels he will be a failure if he abandons his kids as his father abandoned him at six years old. He wears guilt like a year round heavy coat. No, he doesn't play the victim role, just carries around a lot of guilt for not loving his wife and he feels that his infidelity has destroyed any trust there could ever be no matter how much counseling they get. Her parents absolutely hate him. Please don't jump me when I say this but he absolutely adores his boys and they adore him. I know some will say that if he truly loved them he wouldn't cheat--save it--we didn't plan for this to happen. We were together through the first month of this separation and it just got to where he couldn’t stand the thought of not having them with him all the time. She was also threatening to move with them. Every time he has gone back he has said he wished he hadn't because he only loves her "as the mother of their children" and he tells her that. I know this because she told me herself. I, thankfully, was not involved in the last separations Finally, my question...Do you think he can go back and have it work out and why do I assume he is doing great without me? Everything I read states that people sometimes panic when they get separated and think "what the hell am I doing deserting my children" and then they forget how they felt living day to day in the marriage. He said he doesn't know if he's doing the right thing to go back but that if the problems are his alone then he wants to work through it in counseling and try again. He knows that if the issues aren't dealt with he will very likely be unfaithful again. She admits this as well but would rather have him stay so they continue their dance of martyr and villain. Its the only dance they know and they've got the steps down to an art. I'm sorry this was so long:(
scarletletter Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 I can certainly understand him not wanting to be away from his children. It is a very hard thing for anyone to do, even if they have partial custody. I could never do that if I were the man. Men that don't want to hurt their kids...they are not using it as an excuse, I'm sure that they really mean it. Many people change after they have been married for a while. I think it all comes down to people just are not true. The person that you married turns into a totally different person. It's very common. People lose interest. It happens. My question is, why do they keep having children with someone that they do not love or respect?
Author Iwanttohope Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 His last child was a complete surprise. Not that he loves him one single bit less but he knew bringing more children into an already bad situation was not good. He has recently had a vasectomy.
RealityCheck Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 IWTH.... I am sorry, but for me, I cannot, will not ever agree to stay for the sake of the children! Come on! The children ALWAYS pick up on an unloving relationship between their Mother and Father! Heck! The parents don't even need to argue, they sense it! I have children of my own and I will tell you that the day I left there were questions, but my children also were less tense and more alive! Why? Because their Mother was! One of my Son's has even said "Mom I felt there was something wrong...always!" Living in a loveless relationship only teaches a child to settle for a "Less Love Standard". As a parent, all I would want is my child's happiness and if my child was staying for reasons other than love, I would be the first one helping to pack their bags! Now I have to ask you, do you Love your H? Can you picture yourself in retirement with him? Truth is, if you can't now it will never change, kids or no kids! As far as the MM. Is it "Lust" or "Love".
Sami_D Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 This is day 17 for me and I'm really not doing well. I have run the gamut from "he never really loved me and it was all lies" to "he truly did love me and I know it like I know I'm human". I continue to assume that his NC is a breeze while I'm near death. I want to ask him if he has had to make what we had all bad in order to banish me and work on going home...fruitless question I know but I feel so rejected! Finally, my question...Do you think he can go back and have it work out and why do I assume he is doing great without me? Hello there. Where you are is (from what I've read, and experienced) the MOST difficult period of NC. I was there last week... it was HELL. I have felt exactly the same feelings and worries as you are experiencing. Those thoughts don't mean anything, they don't relate to anything he's thinking or feeling... it is NOT a breeze for him ~ how can it be? I refer to them as 'the voices' ... the voices trying to trick you into contacting him again, so you can feel less of this pain. It's a trick of the mind... don't let it get to you. Don't give in... you have everything to gain from continuing the NC, and everything to lose my making that call/text. Do anything you can to get through this next week... it will be hard. You may spend half an hour on end just crying... but it will pass. It WILL pass... and when it has, believe me... you will feel stronger for having weathered it. And the next time you get those thoughts and feelings... you'll be better equipped to deal with it, knowing that you can survive. Please... don't give in. HE is relying on you being strong. So ... be strong.
Author Iwanttohope Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 Now I have to ask you, do you Love your H? Can you picture yourself in retirement with him? Truth is, if you can't now it will never change, kids or no kids! As far as the MM. Is it "Lust" or "Love"... RC, I have never been married. I have a preteen daughter. The reference to whether or not I would leave a marriage and have partial custody was my xMM asking me to imagine how I would feel looking at making that decision. Honestly, I'm clueless about marriage and the work that goes into it. When I became pregnant at 30 I knew that it would be a mistake to add marriage to the mix. We disagreed on so many crucial things and I am not among the subscribers that believes if you are pregnant you must marry. I love my xMM very much--including his flaws. He's the first man I can truly stand back and say there isn't something I want to change. He brought me immense joy. The physical aspect, while incredible, had very little to do with our relationship. It was much bigger than that--is that why it hurts so bad?
movinon05 Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 I'm very sorry for your pain. You say he is still separated. How long has been out of the house? Isn't he getting an idea of how it will be to have his children part of the time? I'm sure his children are getting an idea or falling into a routine at this point?
Author Iwanttohope Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 He has been out of the house now for about five weeks. It was right before NC for us that his W threatened to harm my daughter "with harm she would have to live with for the rest of her life"--those were her words. It absolutely scared the hell out of him to think she would do something to my child out of revenge for what we had done. There is some routine but the threats are looming large and she has made it clear she would make seeing his kids very hard becayse she "couldn't stand the thought of her kids being around a whore"--I guess the whore would be me...she has managed to put him in the victim corner. Seems she would rather her kids be with someone who threatens to harm other children--herself. How can a marriage last when so much venom has been running through it?
Sami_D Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 Are you still thinking of contacting him? To say what? What is the purpose of your NC..?
Author Iwanttohope Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 Well, SD, I guess I'm in denial. The purpose of our NC is so that he can see through counseling if his marriage is salvageable for his three young children. His counselor said that he needed to work on himself and have no contact with either one of us--me or his wife. Obviously he has to have contact with her since he sees the children. I want to know things he can't tell me if he's working on his marriage. The voices I start to hear are the ones that say "he's had six weeks of counseling and that has convinced him he didn't really love you". To me, in order to choose someone over another, you have to make them so taboo that the love turns to apathy. The thought that I'm so easily discarded is what consumes me. From where I sit, he hasn't had a hiccup. Also, people keep saying, it takes 21 days to break a habit....is that what it has to be reduced to? A habit???
Sami_D Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 OK, well, like I tried to say earlier... these fears that you're having are part of your mind throwing up reasons that you simply have to call him. I'm having them myself today. I'm worrying that my MM has decided that after all, it's too much bother to even contact me again... that it's easier to stay M, and he's OK with that. But, rationally, I know that's BS. It is. But it doesn't stop me getting all panicky in the middle of a store full of families... my eyes filling with tears and I have to get out before I break down. But... there's nothing in there of any substance. It's fear. It's part of the process (as my MM would say)... No, an A isn't broken down into 'an addiction' that means nothing. But it's still subject to the same mental processes as anything like this. Letting go... giving up... feels SO BAD... because we're no longer in control... so our minds scrabble for that. And all sorts of irrational, baseless fears will come up to torture us. You just have to Turn Away from them. Your mind will use anything it can get hold of in order to break you down and make you break NC. In your case, it's using this fear of his therapist somehow getting him to feel apathy towards you. It's not real. He doesn't feel apathy. And the thing is... the longer you can give him... the more his true feelings will rise to the top, and the true, lasting result of all this WILL result. You have not been easily discarded. While it seems like years to you (and to me) it is barely a blink of an eye (in his process) since you started NC... he has A LOT of phases to go through yet before he lets go of that M. The time it takes him to do that doesn't mean anything in terms of his feelings for you. I have no doubt they have not changed. They haven't had time to change! Hold on to that, and forget the fears.
RealityCheck Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 IWTH... Oh! I'm sorry for the misinterpretation on my part! I just get to reading these threads at times and with all the advice and support kinda loose track! Anyway, I do agree with what you said about, just because a person gets pregnant should NOT mean they are to get married. I am definately all for that! Going NC is EXTREMELY tough! Hurts like Hell! I went NC for 5 1/2 months and my thoughts also drifted to wanting to know whether he was going through the same type of emotions as I. My NC lead my MM to my door and he was a complete Mess! He said he cried the entire time, never slept and he lost quite a bit of weight that he never needed to loose. Honestly, looking at him in that state, I definately felt he had his share of emotional pain. In my case, I felt his sencerity with everything he brought to the table that day. He even told me that he would leave his W for me. He always maintained he did not love her and was there for "practicle reasons". He said he never thought an A would prompt him to change his mind until he was with me. The end result is I don't want a "live in committed relationship" and I told him that if he is thinking of leaving it should be because of his unhappiness in his marriage and NOT because of me. I said that my perfect world would be for him to have his own place and me have mine. Now whether he is going to act on that at this point I really don't know. I do have strong feelings for him and I am seeing him again but remain open to other opportunities that may come my way and I told him this as well. For today, I am content in this space. I will add, that going NC was the BEST decision I made because it really allowed me to step back in all of the pain and know being on my own is truly where I want to be. Though my feelings are strong for him I also know that the sex being incredibly intense and passionate, is the biggest factor and I am not prepared to settle in a "committment" based on this truth. Everyone on this Thread has shared different experiences within their own A and the Ladies here are awesome and helped me through a very tough road. My story is only one out of so many. NC is difficult, but in my case it really, really helped me to fully understand where I was at with him. Good Luck!
Author Iwanttohope Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 I know how hard it is to catch up on everybody's threads so please don't apologize. Just reading encouragement to continue NC has helped me immensely. I would have blown it several times by now had it not been for this site. There are so few people I can talk to about this and so this site has become my port in the storm. It is now day 18 and some odd hours... hour at a time, hour at a time. Or as my daughter loves to say... "Just keep swimming"... (that's Dori from Finding Nemo)
Sami_D Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 "Just Keep Swimming" THAT is a fantastic way of looking at it..! Yes... that is what you do... just keep swimming.
Author Iwanttohope Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 You know what--you're right! Out of the mouth's of babes! That is going to be my new mantra!
RealityCheck Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 Sami.... *laughing* I was going to post your exact words, but you beat me to the punch! "Keep Swimming".....Love that!
Walking away Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 Hang in there. I, too, am in complete NC. We are doing the right thing. I am positive of this. Hugs to you girls!
Walking away Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Oh yes. My resolve is strong. As is yours, Sami. I am proud of ALL of us for doing this! We are going to be just fine.
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