Guilt vs. Remorsefulness - very different?

[jonesgirly]

Oh yeah, lightbulb moment here for me

 

 

From what I've read, there is a big difference between a WS expressing 'guilt' versus 'remorsefulness'. This may be that nagging voice in the back of my mind all this time.

 

The clearest words I've read regarding the differences:

 

"Remorse comes from an undistorted awareness that you willfully acted in a hurtful manner towards someone."

 

"Guilt is an emotion experienced when you think 'I have done something that I should not have done', which creates unhappiness and depression. Guilt is targeting toward yourself, and can paralyze you from positive action."

 

"Guilt fuels self-destructive attitudes. Remorse fuels constructive action."

 

 

Because my husband is stuck in Guilt-land, things have not progressed as they should have.

 

I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this, or if there are any ideas out there on how to make the person see the difference? I KNOW 'now' that this is what I've felt all along, I just couldn't put it into words.

[Ladyjane14]

I haven't really given much thought to 'guilt vs remorse' before. It's an interesting question.

 

What I've noticed though... is that when my husband is feeling guilty about something, he's usually more combative. "The best defense is a good offense", and all that. Generally, my husband feels guilty about goofy stuff that wouldn't bother most of us. You know, things like taking a nap instead of mowing the lawn. In actuality, I spend alot of time making sure that he knows I'm okay with him just the way he is. I suppose some folks are just like that. They're hard on themselves with their own expectations.

 

All in all, I think you're probably right-on with the quotes you've provided. Although, having looked at your recent post on another thread....I have to wonder if 'blame-shifting' is a bit of an indicator that we're dealing with guilt rather than remorse. It seems to me that a truly remorseful person wouldn't be looking around trying to pin his behavior on somebody else. He'd be taking responsibility for it.

[Mz. Pixie]

I can relate to this. When I first divorced my first husband I felt guilty for what I did. It made me physically sick to think that I had done that.

 

Now that time has passed it's more like remorse for what I did. I feel bad that I did it, but no amount of wishing will turn back the clock to have made that not happen.

 

Perhaps it's a mindset that you get into when you're recovered and willing to accept responsibility for their actions.

 

With your H, he's still not truly owning up to what he's done. Until he does this- he can't even feel guilty- because he's in WS land. He perhaps wants to ACT like he feels guilty but if he hasn't done anything why would he feel guilty??

[jonesgirly]

It seems as though 'guilt' and 'remorse' are widely used terms in all kinds of social settings. Religion, law, psychology, and interpersonal relationships address the issue with varying degrees of importance.

 

For me (BS), it is ALL important that my H actually experience/express remorse, so that we CAN change and move forward. Because he has only had "guilt" regarding his actions, his behavior has differed greatly from some other WS's.

 

His 'guilt' has allowed him to shout at me "GET OVER IT" and "IT WAS NOTHING" and the ever-popular "WE ARE ONLY FRIENDS!". A truly remorseful spouse would've laid down his 'guns' (so to speak), and probably would've approached the situation in a much more caring and loving manner. I'm sure it wouldn't have been an all-balls confession the first time it (EA) was questioned, but it WOULD have been there at some point. He may have been able to understand my grief at the realization that his 'relationship' with his 24 yr old 'friend' was SO important to him he would actually give the impression that they were a 'couple' at our own home with 100 guests present at a gathering.

 

His 'guilt' allowed him to become angry at me from Day 1 up to and through this very date, for my alleged "inability" to move forward. His 'guilt' allowed him to say to me OVER AND OVER again "I don't remember" when asked ANY sort of details. Almost as if he is three years old, and I'm going to believe him!

 

His 'guilt' allowed him to want to just "forget about it," take his punishment (I guess I should've grounded him ), and "get on" with things.

 

And the real 'clincher' for me? When he posted on a think-tank website just SIX WEEKS ago, that 'his marriage was ending' because his wife 'perceived' he had an affair. And when asked if his wife had only "perceived" him having an affair (and had it actually happened), his answer? NO! So.......that pretty much erases even the 'guilt' he expressed.

 

And all this time..........I couldn't quite put a name on it, but I KNEW there was no real understanding. There was no remorsefulness. I'd read things from other BS's who had a remorseful WS - they were bending over backwards to make it up to them, they were answering their questions, HELL - they were even ALLOWED TO ASK questions! They became the 'open book' that is spoke of so often, and seriously tried NOT to appear sneaky or suspicious. I would feel so sad after thinking of the differences between mine and theirs.

 

And I'd feel like crap because I could NEVER say that my husband did anything even close to that. He has his masters degree in 'blame-shifting', a bachelors' in 'conflict avoidance' (with a minor in bulls***ting).

 

I believe he's taken night classes in narcissism also.

 

Although he seems more concerned now (10 months - sorta - after DDay), that feeling of genuine remorse on his part is just not there. And it may never be. I don't know - how can you show someone a feeling that they may never understand?

 

He may never really 'get' that undistorted awareness that he willfully acted in a hurtful manner towards someone (me). I guess the only choice I will have at that point will be to just live with it, or not. And I dislike the 'not' part, because it allows him to live in his own little world of blame ("you can't get past this"). A person unable to empathize or feel remorsefulness is not a real good long-term prospect, I supppose.

[Mz. Pixie]

No, they are not. Because if they don't get to the root of the issue they will never resolve what made them do that to begin with.

 

He just doesn't get it. He won't admit what he did was wrong, which seems very odd to me. Perhaps in his wierd way of thinking, it wasn't wrong?

 

He seems a bit abusive to me as well with his yelling at YOU for his actions.

 

You are right, JG- you've got to decide whether or not you want to put up with this or not. Unless he's going to show some real remorse. Did you guys ever go to marriage counseling? That would be a MUST for me to continue in the marriage at the very least, perhaps even IC for him.

[jonesgirly]

Mz.P.

 

He has stated that he knows what he did was wrong. He's also said he's sorry. But that is usually right before he proceeds to get angry or frustrated with things. For example, last evening, he says to me: "so, we're not going to reconcile right?". I explained to him that its never been up to just me, that he was supposed to be working at rebuilding my trust in him! And then I start to think; 'he must think I'm a complete moron!'. I asked him how in the hell did he think things were going to get better when he was sending emails to three female 'prospects' in February, indicating that he "wanted to get to know them"?

 

YOU ARE GOING TO FAINT WHEN YOU HEAR HIS REPLY TO THAT QUESTION -

 

He says to me that he did it because "YOU backed me into a corner". I don't know what he meant (other than I guess he had NO choice but to do that!), but what I said was "so, what you're saying is that its MY fault?". To which I don't think he had an answer.

 

And this is what I'm referring to as a lack of genuine remorse. He'll SAY he's sorry, he'll SAY he knows it was wrong.......but he doesn't 'act' like it. And then he'll proceed to do say/do/act in a way that totally throws the baby out with the bathwater.

 

I've also told him that he is verbally abusive. I think he's made a conscience effort to curtail it, but its just that - it requires a conscious effort to control.

 

I've explained my need for genuine remorsefulness, mostly because I don't "believe" him when he speaks.

 

There is a point at which most BS's take that 'leap of faith' and begin to trust their WS's again. However, I'm sure its after a period of verified truths (along with remorseful behavior). I can't see myself EVER taking that leap, especially after his actions not even being close to what he's told me all this time. I guess I should already know the answer. I am, thus far, unable to explain to him the difference between guilt and remorse.

[cranium]

jonesgirly,

 

He might also need to take a look at "sincerity" vs. "authenticity". It doesn't sound to me that he is "authentic" in his conversations with you. He might be being "sincere" when he says he's sorry or says he knows he was wrong, but "sincerity" is only pretending to be "authentic".

 

If/when he becomes "authentic" in his interactions with you, it won't require conscious effort on his part and you might "believe" him when he speaks. "Authenticity" has a quality about it.

[Mz. Pixie]

The fact that he put some feelers out indicates to me that he would do it again if he felt like it. He doesn't get it, and sadly, probably never will.

[dmanette]

My theory: Remorsefulness is pre-ejaculation, guilt is post-ejaculation.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Danine-

[jonesgirly]

dmanette; I love your analogy!

 

Mz.P........me too. I have always had this feeling that, because he doesn't really 'get' it, he WILL strike again.

And isn't it sad that right in the midst of 'our' chaos, he chooses to entice three lovely (I'm sure) ladies into an intriguing electronic relationship. His ability to detach from his marriage (i.e., 'me'), continues to amaze me. Oh yeah, but he 'loves' me sooo much.

 

I found this comparison on another 'how to survive infidelity' site earlier (and I'll probably burn in hell for copying it):

 

 

'Guilt' vs 'Remorse'

They aren't the same thing.

They even 'look' different.

 

Guilt looks shady and underhanded. Guilt can't meet your eyes.

 

Guilt has a "you're talkin' to me but I'm thinking of something else", absentminded quality to it.

 

Remorse looks sad.

Remorse cries WITHOUT asking, "So, can we just move past this because talking about it makes me feel bad".

 

Remorse usually involves more action than guilt.

Remorse leaves notes around the house, while guilt sits and clicks around different channels on the idiot box.

Remorse GIVES.

 

Guilt sucks giving out of others.

Remorse is done selflessly.

 

Guilt is STILL screaming to be the misunderstood "victim."

 

I must appear as though I'm obsessing over my recent enlightenment. I guess I am, because I've spent the last ten months trying to figure out what was wrong with ME.

 

Everything makes sense now. It wasn't me, I wasn't 'dragging this out', I wasn't 'unwilling or unable to move on', etc. I was just never given any respect as the recipient of his poor decisions, and he wasn't taking responsibility for them. And, I might add, IT SUCKS, because we will never heal because of it. If I was more naive (than I already am), I would probably be like: "OH, okay, I believe you're sorry and all that...love you! life is great! yay!".

 

But I'm not. I want the respect, NO, I deserve the respect of a 'partner' in a marriage. I CAN work it out with someone who is AUTHENTICALLY (thanks cranium) GENUINE, and SINCERELY REMORSEFUL. I think feeding me a bunch of bulls*** just further disrespects the 'me' that I have. And I'm not overly 'righteous', I just know that I am digging my way out of a hole that my husband dug for me, and deserve more than a shovel full of dirt tossed at me.

 

Really, you guys, I'm not a femi-nazi, I just feel so damned BIG now that I finally have confirmation that what I've 'thought' all along is true! Thanks!

[enoughisenough]

Ok, this guy is not the slightest remorseful. And he deludes himself into thinking he's done no wrong to remain guiltfree as well. How do you know for sure he's cheated?

If you do for sure, then it's time to leave the relationship. You can't force someone to feel remorse towards you. He doesn't care enough about you obviously. Cares more about himself.

[jonesgirly]

EisE...he admitted he hid his relationship with this 'friend' for over a year, and the cellphone call record confirmed his "close friendship" (I looked after becoming suspicious). He admitted to an emotional attachment to her and a desire for the relationship to become 'physical' for a while (yeah, I know......probably the whole time!). And the real funny thing? We'd only been married for a little more than year when it began! We didn't even get the chance to get bored and take each other for granted

 

I agree that he is basically a selfish person. Prior to discovering his betrayal, I had always excused his behavior (his crotchetiness) towards others, and encouraged his children and others to respect him (even though he rarely gave it to others).

 

It really pisses me off sometimes to think of all the effort I put forth in 'allowing' his quirks and loving him anyway. I thought we were 'special' (doesn't everyone) and had a real, honest connection (doesn't everyone).

 

But we're not kids, not even close, and it doesn't feel right that he still gets to act like one. I know that I cannot instill that remorseful feeling in him, and that is frustrating. I don't know if anyone has ever been able to show another person how to feel remorse. I'm thinking maybe selfishness trumps all other emotions?

 

I know that 'logically' his inability to feel remorse equals lack of real caring for me. And it sucks. But I do live in reality, and need to act accordingly.

 

I know he cares more about himself than all others.....that has become increasingly apparent. I guess I should learn something from his example and run as fast as I can? After all, what would my 'husband' do, if the roles were reversed?