Jessie61 Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 So.. 30th June he has to have moved out. How is it looking? It is quite "scary", but it is looking very good!!!! This cynical heart actually believes him! Yes, I am constantly on the lookout for backtracking (and I do know the signs!), but there is none so far. The practicalities are in place and he sounds so sure of what he's doing. Like I said, it is scary....
Sami_D Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 What should I do about that, do you think? I mean about going home for the deadline???? Any comments/suggestions/ideas? I said before, Jessie... you should remove any deadlines and decisions and everything else that means anything to you FAR from anything he has to do. He WILL feck you about. Of that, I have no doubt.
Sami_D Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 Reading all your recent posts Jessie... she's not taking any notice (why should she..? it's her marriage... she doesn't know about you... it's not a 'closed situation' for her, it's just another in those conversations married people have now and again in september, maybe july... means nothing...)... Jessie... I am sure this situation might go on and on and who knows where... I'm just going to reiterate what I said a few weeks ago... IF you have some life-changing thing you need to sign soon... make sure that he's met more than 'well, i said something to her' before you say "he did it" Listen to OldEurope... who else is there to listen to..? MM do nothing but FUDGE... don't miss out on some life thing because he said 2 nice words to you one Wednesday evening.
Jessie61 Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 Are you two planning on moving in together as soon as he leaves? Or are you going to live separately and date. I ask this just because he probably will still have stuff to sort through, emotionally, when he leaves. TO give your relationship a fair chance, you both might want to consider slowing things down so you don't get hurt. There have been other threads in the past from OW, that the MM leave their wives, but then end up going back home. So, please, for your own sake and your heart, take it real slow. No, we are planning to take it very easy. Mostly because of the kids because they need time to adjust to everything. We will live separately for at least a year, with me slowly being introduced to them when they are ready. I also want him to have the opportunity to sort himself out and for me to see that this is working out, and to see of course that he does not go back! Yes, thank you for your kind words. And, yes, I will be careful!
Jessie61 Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 Reading all your recent posts Jessie... she's not taking any notice (why should she..? it's her marriage... she doesn't know about you... it's not a 'closed situation' for her, it's just another in those conversations married people have now and again in september, maybe july... means nothing...)... Jessie... I am sure this situation might go on and on and who knows where... I'm just going to reiterate what I said a few weeks ago... IF you have some life-changing thing you need to sign soon... make sure that he's met more than 'well, i said something to her' before you say "he did it" Listen to OldEurope... who else is there to listen to..? MM do nothing but FUDGE... don't miss out on some life thing because he said 2 nice words to you one Wednesday evening. Sami, No, you are right. Why should she take any notice of anything he says? And yes, he could be fudging, but he has until the deadline and then it is over. What he does and how he disposes of his time, is up to him. After the deadline, that is it. I won't be in a position to make any life changing plans until then anyway. So, that is why the deadline suits me. If he hasn't done what he is supposed to do, then I will just get on with my life. That's it. I need the deadline to make sure that this does NOT go on forever.
aktieb0cka Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 I am learning that if he really loves you, you will be made first, regardless. He will do what it takes to make you #1. There is a chapter in "He's not that into you" about MM. It helped me somewhat.
Sami_D Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 After the deadline, that is it. I won't be in a position to make any life changing plans until then anyway. So, that is why the deadline suits me. If he hasn't done what he is supposed to do, then I will just get on with my life. That's it. I need the deadline to make sure that this does NOT go on forever. All sounds a bit fuzzy to me... Is that how it feels to you? Or is it me missing stuff..?
Jessie61 Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 I am learning that if he really loves you, you will be made first, regardless. He will do what it takes to make you #1. There is a chapter in "He's not that into you" about MM. It helped me somewhat. Exactly! In my case, he has until the end of June (midnight the 30th June) to make me his no. 1. He has to leave his W. If not, then it is over.b I am trying to make it as clear cut as possible!
Jessie61 Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 All sounds a bit fuzzy to me... Is that how it feels to you? Or is it me missing stuff..? Perhaps it is ME missing stuff??? :confused: I think this is as clear as it can be in these situations...? He knows what he has to do, and he knows the time limit. It is up to him to achieve the goal. If not, then that is it... Forever. Please tell me if you think I am the one missing something here???? :o
Sami_D Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 Jessie. What does he have to have done, and what is the 'proof' of that, and by what date? And is that far enough from what YOU have to do (whatever that is) to make your decision to go NC evident? So... what are.. a) his deadlines? b) to do what? c) and if not, you will do what? ... if they're not clear to us.. are they clear to him..? Better get those in line now..? Or are your deadlines not coming up..? And what are they..?
Jessie61 Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 Jessie. What does he have to have done, and what is the 'proof' of that, and by what date? And is that far enough from what YOU have to do (whatever that is) to make your decision to go NC evident? So... what are.. a) his deadlines? b) to do what? c) and if not, you will do what? ... if they're not clear to us.. are they clear to him..? Better get those in line now..? Or are your deadlines not coming up..? And what are they..? Sami, a) deadline the end of June (midnight 30th June) b) pack his bags and leave the W c) if not, then it is permanent NC - EVEN IF he ends up leaving the W two weeks later. Why? Because I am due to sign contract for the purchase of property at the start of July. If I sign and don't go through with it, I will be sued for breach of contract for a very large sum of money which I don't have. Even if I wanted to, I could not go back. I don't understand why this seems so complicated? Am I missing something important here??? In the meantime, I am keeping my eyes and ears open for signs of backtracking and I gauge his moods and attitudes constantly. He gives me daily up to dates about what he is doing to move "us" forward. He has sorted out accomodation (he's buying a house), he has told a few friends and his parents that he is leaving, he is reading about how to deal with the kids, he is talking to his W about separating and wants her to agree terms (so far progress here is slow...) Is that "proof"? No of course not, but I guess they are positive signs? The most positive sign will be IF/WHEN he leaves her. Or am I missing something here again????
aktieb0cka Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 I think it is nice to have hope. I know I did. I actually spoke to the one of the two people who saw married man and I together, today. I had a break through on Friday when I spoke to her. I actually started to cry because I knew what I was thinking was right. I told her how I felt about the whole situation and how I was treated. I told, yes I love him, but I have to move on now because I now know he doesn't love me. She told me that she could not believe it and still doesn't believe it because she saw it and partly experience what it is we had. She told me she never saw any couple like that. She said she couldn't explain it. I told her I agree and that I think he had everyone fooled, even himself. I think he deserved an Oscar for his performance. My friend wanted to let me know that she didn't want to give me hope by bringing that up and I told her I have no hope. As much as I though and other people thought that this man loved me. He might of...I really don't know anymore. But I feel he doesn't. When a man loves a women, he would do all most anything in this world to be with her. Bottom line. We see it in history and most likely experienced in our lives as well. He will make her his world and make her his number 1, in his life. MM told me he was leaving. I believed him. If he did it, I would not be here right now posting on this message board. Like I said maybe something made him change his mind. Great, good for him! But you made your choice, now live with it! I made mine and it included him, but he did not do the same. So in two months when he comes crawling back...you need to go right back where you came from because you told me with your actions that you DID NOT want me to be the one you go to for your problems...You had no problem for a year to do that...so what makes it different now. I said it before and I will say it again...do not think they are leaving until the divorce papers are signed, because they can always go back, just like in my case. He went back out of guilt and not because he was happy. That may one of the worst reasons of all!
Jessie61 Posted May 15, 2006 Posted May 15, 2006 As much as I though and other people thought that this man loved me. He might of...I really don't know anymore. But I feel he doesn't. When a man loves a women, he would do all most anything in this world to be with her. Bottom line. We see it in history and most likely experienced in our lives as well. He will make her his world and make her his number 1, in his life. MM told me he was leaving. I believed him. If he did it, I would not be here right now posting on this message board. Like I said maybe something made him change his mind. Great, good for him! But you made your choice, now live with it! I made mine and it included him, but he did not do the same. So in two months when he comes crawling back...you need to go right back where you came from because you told me with your actions that you DID NOT want me to be the one you go to for your problems...You had no problem for a year to do that...so what makes it different now. I said it before and I will say it again...do not think they are leaving until the divorce papers are signed, because they can always go back, just like in my case. He went back out of guilt and not because he was happy. That may one of the worst reasons of all! Aktie, Thank you for your post! Believe me, I am aware of all the risks and I have absolutely no illusions about this. I am not even sure if I have "hope" as such, yes things sound positive, but my mantra continues to be "seeing is believing"... I just have to bring this to a head and I am prepared for the two possible outcomes. It either progresses into an open and real R or it ends permanently. It is this limbo situation that I cannot live with anymore, and that is why I have said that I don't want to hear from MM if he doesn't meet the deadline and still leaves the W two weeks/months later. I refuse to live my life thinking that he m-i-g-h-t be back later because that would prevent me from living my life fully. I just know that I deserve better than this and I refuse to settle for this, even if that would mean that I'd have to live on my own for the rest of my life.
aktieb0cka Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 I wish you luck!!! I know we all have that romantic in us.
Sami_D Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Is that "proof"? No of course not, but I guess they are positive signs? The most positive sign will be IF/WHEN he leaves her. Or am I missing something here again???? I don't know, Jessie... all I know is that when I read some posts of yours sometimes it gets me worried. When you write it all out like that again... yes, it all seems fine!!!! Maybe I'm just going nuts. (maybe it's in the tone you write in sometimes... like you're uncertain yourself? I don't know. Sorry x)
Jessie61 Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 I don't know, Jessie... all I know is that when I read some posts of yours sometimes it gets me worried. When you write it all out like that again... yes, it all seems fine!!!! Maybe I'm just going nuts. (maybe it's in the tone you write in sometimes... like you're uncertain yourself? I don't know. Sorry x) No, Sami, at this stage it is probably ME going nuts!!!! And of course you are right in that I am uncertain! That is exactly what being a long term OW does to you!!! The constant conflict between heart and mind... I am a bright thing and I cannot say that I am a naive teeny bopper anymore, so of course I question this thing on a daily basis. Yes, part of me actually believes in this (otherwise I would not still be here) - and I am sure you understand this yourself since you have left the door open for your MM to contact you if/when....? (I mean if you KNEW that he would never do that, then you'd ask him to stay away forever, wouldn't you?) But just because part of me believes in this, that doesn't mean that I can ignore the reality of the situation and pretend that all the stats speak against this.... Yes, it is confusing, isn't it????
zarathustra Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Actually, it's been about 50/50 with W and me. Maybe it's a function of who gets into bed first. Ross, you kill me. Actually, I always slept on the couch when we have a fight. Sorry to get off topic here. EWS, I think that your MM has a routine with you because you give him the option to do so. Like I said in your other thread, he doesn't want to be just friends with you. I have many platonic male friends. We call each other when we want to play poker and drink. As typical males, they tell me that they'd like to 'bang' me... I laugh about it with them, call them pigs and then we drink some more. When they need help moving, they call me. When I need help, I call them. We don't give each other the "I miss you, so I thought I'd call"... When we call to chat, we just say, "hey... dude... where the f-ck have you been lately?" then we catch up. What you've described about your relationship with your MM is one of 'friends with benefits'. Personally, those are not relationships I can deal with. I'm an all or nothing kinda gal. If I cannot have 100% of someone, then I'd rather live without. Why the heck should I settle. I work hard, I am a nice and kind human being. I try to do the right thing as often as possible. So why settle for less than 100%? Why should someone who wants to be in my life, give me less than that? You should seriously ask yourself those questions, then ask one final question... Can I really love someone who only gives to me when his wife is not around? You know, I hate to say it, but sometimes I feel like us OW/OM are nothing but polyfil for these MMs/MWs. They call when they miss us. They call when the W or H is not around. What the f-ck is that about?!? We deserve more than that.
Walking away Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 My sentiments exactly, Zara. My sentiments exactly.
silentjuliet Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Sorry, this is abit odd to me...I'm not saying it isn't possible, but usually when couples fight, the man ends up on the couch. I've never heard of a woman saying she'll sleep on the couch...Just weird. It still all comes down to, if he really wanted to be with you, he would do everything possible to end the marriage and be with you. Seems he isn't and infact, he's trying to fix his marriage. Unfair to his wife seeing as he is still intouch with you and not really giving the marriage a fair chance to work. He isn't doing the legwork it takes to fix it because his focus is still divided. It's unfair to his wife, and unfair to you. If you love him, you have to let him go. You aren't sure you really want him as a partner, yet you can't desert him because you can't have him? Do you want to see him happy? If you really are a friend, a friend who you've known all your life, wish him the best, break up with him and back off. As much as it will hurt you, I think you know being friends with him is worse than not being friends. It leaves you filled with a hope that more than likely will never be. It's not right for you, nor his wife! Order a pizza, that should help. I don't know haha...I've taken the couch and even the floor many a time because he's too much of a stubborn ass to get out of the bed. Instead of fighting over that as well I would just grab the pillow and sheet.
silentjuliet Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 this is how it goes. Ever since I began posting, after April 25th, (the second time we got together after he told me he was going to work things out w/W) he has followed this routine... writes a few emails during the week (when his wife is gone, she is gone every night for dance class) and I write back, about twice a week. Phones me on the odd week, when he misses me, and tells me all this stuff about missing me and how badly he wants to see me. During weekends, when they have family things, I don't hear a peep. (except when she is gone) SHe's been practicing her dance regularly now, since she is off to a competition in June. (I'm sure he thinks we will be spending 3 blissful weeks together because he asked me what I was doing in June, and could he come over.) He tells me, they've been going to counseling but it's really hard because she is never home, which at the same time makes him happy because he says it's difficult being with her. I told him this is normal, since they've been "broken up" for a year even though they were living together, and she probably needs to dance to relieve stress, and tension. And that it can't be all rosy as he would like it to be, because maybe she doesn't trust him 100%. (with reason, in Februarty he wanted her out of his place and within a week he wanted to work on the M) He tells me that this week she's slept on the couch a few times because they keep fighting. I'm really confused. sometimes I'm okay, I think, well, he's probably not for me because he can actually live without me for days and days. I'm not used to this sort of behavior. My ex fiancee wanted to spend every waking second that he wasnt' at work to be with me. So I find it odd that only 9 months into this, he keep saying he misses me, yet, he's trying not to see me Does it matter what I do at this point? I can't do the NC thing because I want him to know I'm fine with being friends since I am not even sure if I want him as a partner eventually. Is it wrong to pursue a friendship even though I know it's wrong but I am doing it so he can make an informed decision about whether or not I am the right woman for him. Is it alright to test the grounds for my own curiosity of whether or not we are right for one another? For myself, I keep believing that if I remain his friend suring this time, I will maybe stumble upon some fault or characteristic that might get on my nerver, therefore, it woudl be easier to leave him. Is it just me, or is my MM just the most absolutely perfect man for me. Because the more I get to know him, the more I realize how incredible his qualities are. If I walk away, I will feel really badly because I've known him all my ife and I always feel as though the moments we spent together (in these past nine months were he was grieving his brother and I was grieving my ex-fiancee) were so special, I can't just desert him now, just because I can't have him. Help! I''m in a crisis, and I just realized there is no finger food in my pantry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I agree with the idea that if he really wanted to be with you he would be communicating everyday in some way and trying everything he could to see you and would leave her. But I do know as a MW that the idea of leaving the spouse for someone you love and want to be with isn't as easy as it seems. No matter right or wrong ...divorce is hard, emotional, and messy and even when you love someone else it's a scary venture and a gamble. Especially, when someone has children as well. I wish I could help. But the fact he doesn't communicate on a regularly would upset me and would help me drop him. I don't like waiting on anyone no matter how much I love them. Not when it's that way or no way.
aktieb0cka Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 I don't know haha...I've taken the couch and even the floor many a time because he's too much of a stubborn ass to get out of the bed. Instead of fighting over that as well I would just grab the pillow and sheet. You know now that I think of it. I spend more time on the couch than he does!!
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