Wicked Wanda Posted May 12, 2006 Posted May 12, 2006 I logged on today and started reading through the new threads... and some of the old ones. I found myself wondering if anyone has truly forgiven the MM (or MW) and what the result was of that foregiveness. I ask because I've forgiven Blair so many times and thought that may be why he keeps coming back...
Curmudgeon Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Who's Blair? What's his relationship to you> It's not clear from your post. Is he your husband or your MM? As far a forgiveness goes, the ex had affairs and I forgave her, several years after I divorced her. She doesn't know it and doesn't have to. I did it for me!
aktieb0cka Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 I have not forgiven MM yet. Although, it has only been two months. I am just trying to make sense of what happened, why did it happen, how can I learn from this and how to prevent it from happening again. Pretty much I am working on myself before I move on to him and the issues that I have with him and this situation.
Guitar Wizard Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Who's Blair? What's his relationship to you> It's not clear from your post. Is he your husband or your MM? As far a forgiveness goes, the ex had affairs and I forgave her, several years after I divorced her. She doesn't know it and doesn't have to. I did it for me! I hate to burst your bubble there dude, but that isn't how forgiveness works. Sure, people say that you can forgive someone without them knowing or being involved as long as you honestly belive that it's true. Well, people say that so they can feel better about themselves, but it's really a bunch of crap. If you were to forgive her, you would have said "Hey, I forgive you!", and not only that, I don't think humanity is actually capable of forgiving that kind of thing, because no matter how much you tell yourself it's over, or it doesn't matter anymore, or it wasn't your fault it still burns in the back of your mind. I bet you still think about it every now and then. I bet it still keeps you up and night and whatnot, I bet your mind wanders there every time you hear about a cheating situation that was close to yours, and you go through the same emotions that you had, espically if you read posts here at loveshack! So, you didn't forgive her, your just telling yourself you did to make your world a better place. I believe it's also known as "Living in fantasy land." Im not trying to be mean or anything, im just tired of all these new things people try to make up so that they don't have to deal with the preasure of reality. People should be able to accept the world as-is, they shouldn't need to live in their head more then they do on planet Earth.
StrivingtoSucceed Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Guitar-Wizard - Isn't forgiveness a form of just letting it go? I think that is what Curmudgeon was getting at. I have forgiven my ex for being a dead-beat dad ... it wasn't worth it to me to hang on to all that emotional trauma, or worry about it anymore. Half my family and my current H can't believe I have "forgiven" him ... which isn't what I intentionally did. I just didn't care enough to let it bother me, or affect my life anymore.
movinon05 Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 I always said I would never forgive exMM. But I have to tell you, in the past week I have been coming to a realization after reading what OldEurope says, and what Sami says, and Walking Away, although they are not talking about forgiveness per se. But since my exMM left me a message recently through a friend, I'm starting to see this in a different light. He is making choices, and some of them I can understand. I used to be so angry at him. But I'm starting to look at the bigger picture. Maybe because I have moved on and picked up the pieces of my life and saw that I can do it and still find joy without my world crumbling. He's choosing to stay for a number of reasons. And I don't know why, but I'm starting to accept it. He's been putting me through an emotional ringer lately, but I'm starting to see that there really is no point in getting all upset like this. Its not accomplishing anything at all. And he started rekindling a hope in me for some time in the future. But I am now looking at OE and Sami and WA, and realizing I just have to go on living and try not to let him affect me. I have to try to find peace within myself so that I am mentally prepared for the next thing he does. Its got to be more about me now and letting go in my mind. And so the anger is fading because even if he does want me now or someday, he's making choices against that and little bits of gifts and words are not going to just magically get us back together. I don't know if I'm making any sense. But total NC and living for today and my own personal future of what is to be, planning on it being without the MM, is what I am really going to strive for. And in order to do that, I am realizing I need to forgive him for my own sake. Carrying the anger around is self destructive to my own personal growth. I just hope I can stay this way for when/if he does something again. I'm hoping I can. We'll see.
Walking away Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 I am going to respond to movinon's post... It is not really a matter of forgiveness, really. Although, to a degree, that occurs. Once you finally really let go, you take back the control in your life. Everyone can understand that even if they haven't experienced that moment in their relationship. But, it is more than letting go. It is the mindset that "Yes, I am going to be okay." And, the pain melts away. Maybe it is the renewed self respect, revived self esteem, or the aura of dignity that this action produces...or maybe all of these things and more. But, one gets to a point where they WANT to live a happy life, free of the painful clutter of the hurricane type relationship with the MM. It is hard to explain. But, I can only explain it this way....and I think Sami and Old Europe would agree....there is PEACE, blessed peace when one chooses to step out of the painful habits and cycles of the affair and dare to venture out alone without the MM. Not because we don't care about THEM, but because we care about ourselves MORE. And, it is liberating. Scary? At times. But the overwhelming peace that occurs through it all outweighs the fear. For, those of us who choose to walk away from a loving, yet unavailable partner, it was the loving thing to do for both them and for ourselves. We removed the uncertainty and devastation for BOTH of us. Choices were made, lives must go on, and I respect his choices. So, for this season, we instituted NC without the harsh, bitter words that often accompany these moments.... And, I feel no bitterness. I have wonderful memories with him. He fell in love with someone he shouldn't have, and so did I. We were human. But, life must go on. And, I am ready to explore it. It wasn't easy to get to this point. I had much trepidation instituting the NC. After all, this man was one that I adored. And, although he chose to stay and work on his marriage, he, too adored me. But, we were not helping each other out by being in touch. We were hindering each others' lives. Do the feelings still remain? Of course. But, I have an acceptance now. What happened happened. I cannot change the course of my life. Nor can he. But, for me, was time to let go. And, the peace followed. Will I ever see him again? If he remains married....an unresounding NO. If not...he says he will seek me out and find me when he is available. For he agrees, that if we were to ever be together again, it would be the RIGHT way. Do I hold out hope? No. And, that is healthy for me. Hope is what kept me holding on for too long. I am movinon (I get tired of saying walking away, so I am stealing your name this time!) and have a hope for a bright future for me. Alone. And, that is an okay space for me to be in.
movinon05 Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 I am going to respond to movinon's post... It is not really a matter of forgiveness, really. Although, to a degree, that occurs. Once you finally really let go, you take back the control in your life. Everyone can understand that even if they haven't experienced that moment in their relationship. But, it is more than letting go. It is the mindset that "Yes, I am going to be okay." And, the pain melts away. Maybe it is the renewed self respect, revived self esteem, or the aura of dignity that this action produces...or maybe all of these things and more. But, one gets to a point where they WANT to live a happy life, free of the painful clutter of the hurricane type relationship with the MM. It is hard to explain. But, I can only explain it this way....and I think Sami and Old Europe would agree....there is PEACE, blessed peace when one chooses to step out of the painful habits and cycles of the affair and dare to venture out alone without the MM. Not because we don't care about THEM, but because we care about ourselves MORE. And, it is liberating. Scary? At times. But the overwhelming peace that occurs through it all outweighs the fear. For, those of us who choose to walk away from a loving, yet unavailable partner, it was the loving thing to do for both them and for ourselves. We removed the uncertainty and devastation for BOTH of us. Choices were made, lives must go on, and I respect his choices. So, for this season, we insituted NC without the harsh, bitter words that often accompany breakups.... And, I feel no bitterness. I have wonderful memories with him. He fell in love with someone he shouldn't have, and so did I. We were human. But, life must go on. And, I am ready to explore it. It wasn't easy to get to this point. I had much trepidation instituting the NC. After all, this man was one that I adored. And, although he chose to stay and work on his marriage, he, too adored me. But, we were not helping each other out by being in touch. We were hindering each others' lives. Do the feelings still remain? Of course. But, I have an acceptance now. What happened happened. I cannot change the course of my life. Nor can he. But, for me, was time to let go. And, the peace followed. Will I ever see him again? If he remains married....an unresounding NO. If not...he says he will seek me out and find me when he is available. For he agrees, that if we were to ever be together again, it would be the RIGHT way. Do I hold out hope? No. And, that is healthy for me. Hope is what kept me holding on for too long. I am movinon (I get tired of saying walking away, so I am stealing your name this time!) and have a hope for a bright future for me. Alone. And, that is an okay space for me to be in. First of all, I totally agree with you about the PEACE. When I wasn't involved with him, it felt soooooooo good not to have my stomach in knots, worrying about secret phone calls and secret meetings, having to lie. The relief of not having that was intense. And this past year is what taught me that I can do this without getting back into an A because I know that will NEVER happen again. And there is a song by Rascal Flatts called - guess what - "Movin On"!!! Hence my name!! It talks about forgiving yourself for the past and being at peace with your past and moving on. That song struck me so personally, and that is why it became my mantra. But I think peace can also include forgiveness. I'm not so worried about the forgiveness part, but I am starting to forgive him. And I think that might help me in my personal journey. I don't know, it just feels right! And I am going to try to go back to the "no hope" stage as well. By living my life as I said and living the "forgiveness" if that is what is going to help me do so. I do want to keep my dignity intact. It worked for me all this time, so there has to be something to it!
Walking away Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Movinon, You are doing great. Your dignity has always remained with you and it will continue. Welcome to my world. It isn't so bad, is it?
movinon05 Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Movinon, You are doing great. Your dignity has always remained with you and it will continue. Welcome to my world. It isn't so bad, is it? What I respect about you even more is that you came to the place you are at much faster than I! It took me too long!
Walking away Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Everyone comes to this place at the right time for them. Although I am an admitted hopeless romantic, I am also quite wise in seeing the writing on the wall.... Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. My life had become insane. Very quickly. We were involved only 8 months. 8 months of a whirlwood, fairytale-like romance. But, the insanity had to end. Quickly. My life depended on it. As did my kids lives. And, I am healthy again. I see it. I feel it. As do my children and my friends. I am back to the old me. The old me that existed before the insanity of the affair. I knew that she was always in there, inside of me....I just needed to find her again. And I am so glad I did. I have myself back.
movinon05 Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You got that right!! I'll tell you what though. After all this, I have not got my old self back. I have a new self. Before all this happened and while it was happening, I look back and I do not like who I was at all for not living to my full potential and demanding more for myself and my family. It took all this for that to happen! I am the same person in many respects, but in many respects I am very different!! Funny thing is, if he were to come back, he would see a whole different person!! I'm not the wimp I used to be! I guess I've adopted more of a "bitchy" attitude but a nice bitch! lol! Then again, that could be bad! I don't want him loving me more because I am now more of a bitch!! This could backfire on me!!! lol!
Walking away Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Have you been reading that book I recommended?! Sounds like it! Good for you.
Walking away Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Have you been reading that book I recommended?! Sounds like it! Good for you.
movinon05 Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Have you been reading that book I recommended?! Sounds like it! Good for you. You know what? I found it at the bookstore the other day. But decided not to buy it just yet. At the time I didn't really care what men were interested in! And I thought if I can just be myself, then that is what I want someone to love me for. I get the gist of the title, and perhaps I will read it some day soon. I just didn't care what they want! How's that for cathartic!!
Walking away Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Very good point! However, the book is quite empowering in the fact that it reiterates many times that WE are number one. Always. And to never give up our power. And that book is dead on right about that.
Sami_D Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 I logged on today and started reading through the new threads... and some of the old ones. I found myself wondering if anyone has truly forgiven the MM (or MW) and what the result was of that foregiveness. I ask because I've forgiven Blair so many times and thought that may be why he keeps coming back... Doesn't he keep coming back because you keep letting him? I think you can forgive people, and still tell them you don't want them in your life any longer. Forgiveness has nothing to do with letting them back in, or letting them do anything. "You're forgiven, now clear off" is fine, I think.
OzGirl Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 No, I haven't forgiven him. That's his W's job, and from what I know, it's all worked out well for them both. My job is to forgive myself. And, yes, I've done that.
Guest Posted May 14, 2006 Posted May 14, 2006 I think you can forgive people, and still tell them you don't want them in your life any longer. Forgiveness has nothing to do with letting them back in, or letting them do anything. "You're forgiven, now clear off" is fine, I think. And what do you do if they won't take no for an answer, when they stalk you, show up at your door when you don't answer the phone, show up at work, at the gym or even your friends' homes. I don't want to go into hiding just because he won't take no for an answer - I don't think that you're fair in saying it's because she let's him come back!
movinon05 Posted May 15, 2006 Posted May 15, 2006 And what do you do if they won't take no for an answer, when they stalk you, show up at your door when you don't answer the phone, show up at work, at the gym or even your friends' homes. I don't want to go into hiding just because he won't take no for an answer - I don't think that you're fair in saying it's because she let's him come back! Wanda, I'm assuming this is you. I live in a small town and my exMM can show up just about anywhere if he wants to to confront me, but so far he's been backdooring it. I would certainly not want to have to put up with him showing up everywhere. But if you HAD made up your mind, and he did show up at your door, can't you just not open the door, not speak to him when he shows up at your friends' or have them not allow him in, have someone escort him from work, etc. If you've really made up your mind, don't you think sooner or later he'll get the hint as long as you don't back down? Of course, there's always the restraining order bit. You are giving him the power and he is taking the power away from you. Do you REALLY want it to end? After 20 years, if its taken this long, I get the feeling you just don't want it to end. I hate to see you wasting your life like this. Do you date other men? Maybe you should. Maybe that would do it for you and for him. I just don't see how you can let someone take such control over your life.
Sami_D Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 And what do you do if they won't take no for an answer, when they stalk you, show up at your door when you don't answer the phone, show up at work, at the gym or even your friends' homes. I don't want to go into hiding just because he won't take no for an answer - I don't think that you're fair in saying it's because she let's him come back! If they're behaving like that, you call the police. You get a restraining order. No one has to live with that.
Blind Illusion Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 I logged on today and started reading through the new threads... and some of the old ones. I found myself wondering if anyone has truly forgiven the MM (or MW) and what the result was of that foregiveness. I ask because I've forgiven Blair so many times and thought that may be why he keeps coming back... I don't know about forgiveness (I'm not sure why I am forgiving him as it's a situation I was part of also) but I probably have made more allowances for the MM than any other man ever.
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