punkins_mama Posted May 4, 2006 Posted May 4, 2006 Hello, I am new to this whole thing, but I am looking for some advice, objective conversation, insight, whatever you want to call it. Here is my story... My husband and I have been married for 5 years and we have been together for 9. We have a two year-old little boy and I am seven months pregnant with a little girl that we tried really hard for after a rough miscarriage. All in all, we have had a very happy marriage. We rarely ever fight, we communicate very well, we spend a lot of time together and our intimacy couldn't be better. That is possibly why this is all still so shocking to me. My husband and I work for the same software company; I in marketing and he in technical support. About 2 months ago, he was assigned a specific client who is in another state about 11 hours away to assist with a great deal of technical issues they were having. He has never met this client or seen her face to face. When they were originally introduced over the phone, she started some chatty, friendly conversation with him that did not concern work. They talked about things like movies, music, etc. He told me all about this and told me about her. I have NEVER been a jealous person and have always had complete faith and trust in my husband. I had no reason to be concerned or doubt anything. I thought nothing of their friendly conversations. Then eventually, he stopped telling me about her and the subject sort-of died. Then one night about 2 weeks ago, we were watching a baseball game on tv and I noticed that he was chatting on the internet on his laptop which he rarely ever does. I, in a very joking tone of which I have used many times before, asked him, "Are you talking to your giiiiiiiiirlfriend?" He immediately snapped back at me, "She is NOT my girlfriend, do not call her that." I was stunned. He had never spoken to me like that or snapped at me about anything. His demeanor about the whole situation lodged an overwhelming doubt in my mind that I had never experienced before. The next day, I did something that I still regret. I have domain admin rights at work and I broke into his email account. My fears were confirmed. He had been talking to her night and day and the conversations were more than friendly. Not sexual, but very much "loving". They said things like, "I miss you", "I'm thinking about you", "You're special to me." etc. I was completely devastated. I feel like even though this was not a sexual "affair" if that is what you want to call it, it hurts worse because it involves emotion, love and feelings. I approached him about it that night and he was relieved that I knew but said he was ashamed and embarrassed about it all. He said he was extremely confused because he had no idea how and why he let it get this far when he had always been so in control. He was conflicted with thoughts of her vs. thoughts of me. It was/is killing him, but he didn't know how to stop it. He said he wanted to get counseling and we both have been going. It has helped so far. Although he needed a few days to come to this point, he did tell me that he was 100% committed to our marriage, me and our children. He tells me he loves me and our children and that this whole thing is killing him emotionally. The problem is, he can't stop talking to her. They have to talk regarding work and I understand that, but she continues to throw in talk of her "feelings" for him to which he does not reciprocate. He has told her that he wants to work on his family but that he doesn't want to hurt her either. She says she understands and she could not live with being the "other woman" or the responsibility of possibly breaking up a family. Yet, she wont stop telling him how much she cares about him and that she misses him, etc. I don't know what to do. I HATE being jealous. I have never been a jealous person and I absolutely hate what it is doing to me. I want to trust my husband, but at the same time, I can't sit back and honestly say that he's not thinking about her or talking to her. The temptation to read his email is constantly hounding me and I don't want it. I want to trust that he does love me, that he is committed to me and that things will work out, but I can't stop thinking about her and what has happened. Am I being too hard on myself? Am I being too hard on him? Am I doing something wrong/right? Any advice or support would be greatly appreciated.
Buttaflyy Posted May 4, 2006 Posted May 4, 2006 Wow. Wish I had something really great to say, mostly I would like to send you my support. I think that your reaction to everything is natural. Sounds to me like you two are really in love and are taking the necessary actions to fight for your marriage. Does he tell you now about her responses to him? Is he being totally honest and not initiating anything with her?
Author punkins_mama Posted May 4, 2006 Author Posted May 4, 2006 Thank you for your support. Yes, he tells me all about any conversations they have and he answers any questions I have. Sometimes the answers hurt, but I asked for it. As much as I don't want to, I have seen some of their conversations and I know he is not initiating anything with her and she is "trying" not to initiate with him, but she is dangling on the edge. I guess that's what I am struggling with, I DO trust him. I trust that he is being honest with me now....so why can't I stop being jealous and just have faith that everything will work out in the end? That's my struggle. Again, thank you.
Art_Critic Posted May 4, 2006 Posted May 4, 2006 He is having an emotional affair on you.. I feel those are just as bad as sexual ones as they also take away from the marriage in the fact that he is sharing things and talking about things in his life that he should be sharing with you. You need to confront him and get it out in the open .. get you both to a counselor so you can discuss why it happened. He also needs to talk with his uperiors and get replaced on that account.. And please be careful about letting him know that you broke into his company email as what you did was illegal unless you own the company and you could be fired for doing it.
Buttaflyy Posted May 4, 2006 Posted May 4, 2006 I agree with the last post. I think that you both have what it takes to get through this, but he needs to take steps to ensure your security with him. I agree that he should disconnect contact with her by all means. His obligations are to you and your needs. Her feelings are not a concern. There should be no reason that he would want to continue any type of relationship with this woman at the expense of his marriage.
miho Posted May 4, 2006 Posted May 4, 2006 i have read your story. i think the degree of hurt you feel is dependent on your atitude and your views about human nature. i know my relationship with my husband is a little out of the norm, but let me share with you. we are also very happy together, and click very well. i just told him i have an urge to have an emotional affair with another guy, he said he understands perfectly. he wasn't hurt, he wasn't angry or jealous. because this is not the first time i told him this. i also got to know he likes one of his female colleague, she is very pretty and sexy to him. same thing, i am not hurt, not jealous. we both look at it as human nature, it has almost nothing to do with our love for each other. yes, theoretically love is one to one, you should love only one person all your life, be faithful etc. we know all this, but we understand what is theory and human nature and reality. we believe human beings by nature is polygammous, that is why there is so much marital problems, everybody is trying to fight against this nature, that's why. obviously your husband loves you very very much. if both of you acknowledge this is human nature, i mean really really accept this fact, then he would feel less guilt, he could forgive himself easier and you could also forgive him easier and you both will get over it. and what's more, you can have a better relationship. i am also have my own share of problem if you have read my thread, but we are both working on it.
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted May 4, 2006 Posted May 4, 2006 Have you checked out http://www.marriagebuilders.com? It is a great site for people who engage in infidelity. Many people on forum have benifited from it. Also, read OWL's thread... he experienced a similar kind of infidelity. Good luck.
Jessie61 Posted May 5, 2006 Posted May 5, 2006 Although he needed a few days to come to this point, he did tell me that he was 100% committed to our marriage, me and our children. He tells me he loves me and our children and that this whole thing is killing him emotionally. The problem is, he can't stop talking to her. They have to talk regarding work and I understand that, but she continues to throw in talk of her "feelings" for him to which he does not reciprocate. He has told her that he wants to work on his family but that he doesn't want to hurt her either. She says she understands and she could not live with being the "other woman" or the responsibility of possibly breaking up a family. Yet, she wont stop telling him how much she cares about him and that she misses him, etc. I don't know what to do. I HATE being jealous. I have never been a jealous person and I absolutely hate what it is doing to me. I want to trust my husband, but at the same time, I can't sit back and honestly say that he's not thinking about her or talking to her. The temptation to read his email is constantly hounding me and I don't want it. I want to trust that he does love me, that he is committed to me and that things will work out, but I can't stop thinking about her and what has happened. Am I being too hard on myself? Am I being too hard on him? Am I doing something wrong/right? Any advice or support would be greatly appreciated. Punkins, No you're not being too hard on yourself. You are perfectly entitled to feel jealous, hurt and untrusting. I actually think that you are doing quite well already with the counselling etc. It is also very encouraging to see that your H is so open about his communication with the client. I know that you are curious about his email account etc and that you don't want to "snoop" again, but could you ask him to see the mails? I think that he seems to understand why you are jealous (for good reason, I might add!) and he should have absolutely no problem doing that especially since you already know that the client is still trying to drag him into emotional conversations? This way he could "prove" that he is not doing anything wrong and it would rebuild the trust between you? As for the client, I think that your H really needs to talk straight with her, if he has not already done so. If he has, he has to repeat the same message (ie. that he doesn't want to talk about anything but business because he loves you and he is concentrating on his marriage etc), and he might do that with you present so further rebuild the trust? If none of this works, then he will have to ask to pass on the client to someone else? It is important, I think, that you both work on rebuilding the trust and that you both realise that it will take some time. He needs to understand why you are jealous and that you are justified in feeling insecure, but I seem to think that he probably understands that already and is willing to help you? Keep up the counselling too! Yes, read Owl's threads. He was involved in something similar and you can learn loads from him. Keep posting!
OzGirl Posted May 5, 2006 Posted May 5, 2006 I used to be an other woman. Not any more, though. And, I have witnessed, experienced and vastly researched HOW I got myself into the mess - for almost 3 years. I can say that the OW you're referring to - she is waxing lyrical if she says she wouldn't want to be involved with your husband. If that's the case, then she should act like it. They have a professional relationship, and that's where the conversation should start and stop. However, to be fair - she can only do what he lets her. I know you feel a bit guilty for checking his email, etc, and it is illegal and no doubt against company policy for you to have done so, but you won't know for sure what your husband provokes (maybe not even with the effort to do so). I agree that he should go to some effort to maybe see if someone else can take care of her professional issues. My guess, is she makes him feel good. He feels new and interesting to her, and it's a feeling you don't get unless you're a serial dater, I suppose. I think that's normal in that a lot of men enjoy that (and women, too). There is a book I read called "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. She is, from all accounts and reviews I've read, and in my own opinion, too, the 'guru' on infidelity - how it happens, why it happens, the aftermath, etc. I know this sounds like I'm assuming he's having an affair and you need to read up on it. I'm not. I'm saying, though, this IS the classic signs of an affair starting. If you didn't catch him out, the emails would have continued and may have escalated in their personal content, and resulted in more mutual intrigue between them. Then what... where does it go from there..... My advice is YOU need to get wised up on what's happening to your husband, and posting here was an excellent way to do it. I can only give you one side, and it's obviously not the only side. You need to be grateful you found out while it's still so new and 'shallow' in it's level of connection they have. But, the danger here is not this other woman. If she is single, then she's ripe for the picking to have male attention and consideration. Electronic relationships can spark a "fantasy" situation between them, and IF there's chemistry in reality, too, then it's a recipe for more pain than either you, your H or the OW will be able to fathom when it comes full circle to where it is now, but on a grander scale. That point being that YOU found out. IMHO, I would ask your husband what she does for him - how does she make him feel? Why does he feel she holds the key to bringing that out in him? How much of this is really about him - not her (she could possibly be anyone, given the opportunity). I wouldn't get upset or scold him for the truths he may reveal - it will disencourage him to work with you on this. You can be hurt - but you also know, as a mother, that nurture often heals the wounds within someone else. I wish you the best of luck. Your husband sounds like a nice man for you to be able to have already discussed what you have, and for (not that you might want to see it this way) another person (who happens to be female and flirtatious, unfortunately, by the sounds of things) to feel at ease to actually talk about how they 'feel' with him. If he wants some spark in his life, then ask him to help you find it with each other. That in itself is something worth trying. Life can be like organised chaos when you have little kids, etc. There are a million benefits for him to stick by you and work through this that will feel better and be more long lasting than anything he could ever possibly do with this woman.
UnknowingOW Posted May 29, 2006 Posted May 29, 2006 Dear Punkin's Mama, I am so sorry to have read your post. I was once married for 8-years only to find out my H was not who he claimed to be. The marriage was a lie as far as I was concerned. And it took me 2.5 years to get out of it, and I have been divorced for 8-years and have a great life. However, here I am, many years later, and now I have a major problem which puts me on the other side of the line as far as I am concerned. My story begins 5-years (2001) ago when I met this great gentlemen while living in Memphis. We hit it off immediately. Started dating a few weeks after meeting, and had the perfect date where I revealed my divorce and the bad decisions where men were concerned. He told me he too was divorced and had been for many years. The only real problem to this relationship was I was moving to CT in 3-weeks, so there was no real LTR here. The relationship was both emotional and physical, but we both held back from going all the way. Especially me since I wanted a relationship and not just sex. He was the first person in 3-years that I could actually care about. We stayed in contact while I was in CT, but the emails and phone calls were diminishing over time, and then the email came stating how much he loved me; how much he wanted to spend every day with me; how much he wanted to wake by my side everyday of his life; and the big BUT. The but was age. He had originally told me he was 49 and was actually 52, and since I was 36 he felt I was too young and would want more out of life. I was devasted. The next day a long call took place and we talked over everything, our relationship, our geo-distance, and the future. We opted for friendship. Which, I might add i was okay with since we could never be in the same place at the same time. Over time we stayed in contact via email and some calls. When he finally came to CT he called and I asked to meet for dinner. We did. And we picked-up both emotionally and physically where we left off; yet never going all the way by his choice this time. However, when it came to go home he cried and told me how much he loved me, and again age would never let us be together. Again, I cried. However, I was determined to break the age barrier issue with him. I called his cell as soon as I got home, and he hung up. I thought ok, maybe he is just trying to make me realize this is too difficult for him. The next day I rec'd and email stating not to come that he would change hotels. I said ok. But, this didn't stop our emails or infrequent calls. By 2003 we were chatting online daily, and the phone calls still infrequent continued. Over time we began cybering and phone sex as a way to show each how we felt. And, during this time he proclaimed his love for me and how I could never know how much had truly loved me. In fact, he said, everytime he heard the song Cherish he thought of me, becaused he knew we could never be what he wanted from us. By 2005 he was in my hometown in TN. We met for drinks and he wanted to see my new home. We came over and immediately we became physical. But this time I held back because of I knew he would never change his mind regarding my age. We saw each other twice. He and I share a similar work background where we are on the road 50-75% of the time, so back to work we went. During the next year the on-line chats became daily, the phone calls periodic and the need to be together physically more apparent. We have discussed the aspect of his divorce and the finanical drains which can occur. We have discuss everything in life. He has been a great friend, mentor, and lover. However, this year we finally agree to meet and go to the next level. I, of course, am thinking...wow, maybe he's changed his mind regarding us. But, to be honest I never believed there would ever be a future with us. We met this 1st week of May 2006 and had the most wonderful experience of my life, and his too as he stated. He flatly admitted to wanting more and asked me to meet in while he was in Mid TN in Oct; I of course agreed because I too want more from him, but not quite sure knowing what. To be honest, I never thought to check out his background. I always assumed he told me the truth. But, taking this relationship further has bought me to enlightenment. I ran a background check 2-days ago only to find out he's lied to me for years. He's not the man I thought he was. He lied about having a home in Memphis, which I might add she's on the title, which I found on the tax records. He's lied to me about his marriage. He has lied to her. The worst part about all this is I was unknowlingly brought into an adulteress affair with this man. I was sick. Since I have been the wife, and hated knowing what I found out. I have wronged another person unintentionally. This goes to the core of my soul. I have also prided myself on my honor to ever harm another person and especially a wife or a LTG. It's not who I am. And, any one who knows me know this. This applies to any one I love, family, friends, and lovers (granted all in my past have been single like myself). I am so angered by the lies, the deceit, the betrayal. I have beaten myself to death internally with all this knowledge. My family and friends are in shock becuase of the length the of the deceit. I have opted not to tell her. Becuase she is in her mid 50's and I remember what happend to my grandmother when she learned of my grandfather's deceit. I will not do that to another person...destroy their world. As for me just learing I am the other woman I am unclear as to how to proceed with him. The affair is over. I will not be his consort nor victim. I will not harm his wife. I cannot decided whether to use total non-contact, email him with the truth, or wait and face him in Oct with the truth. The only problem with the last is me wanting closure and answers. I think he owes me that much because we have been friends far longer then lovers. But if I carry the later option out; I would have to be part of the lies and deceit by giving him the thought I was still available to him. I don't know what to do. The Unknowing Adulteress
Curmudgeon Posted May 29, 2006 Posted May 29, 2006 He is having an emotional affair on you.. I feel those are just as bad as sexual ones as they also take away from the marriage in the fact that he is sharing things and talking about things in his life that he should be sharing with you. You need to confront him and get it out in the open .. get you both to a counselor so you can discuss why it happened. He also needs to talk with his uperiors and get replaced on that account.. And please be careful about letting him know that you broke into his company email as what you did was illegal unless you own the company and you could be fired for doing it. I almost totally agree with all the above. He needs to have another employee assigned to the account. His willingness to do that will say a lot about how sincere he is to preserve your marriage. My one slight disagreement is that I think emotional affairs are WORSE than merely sexual ones because the ties and emotions run far deeper.
Chump64 Posted May 29, 2006 Posted May 29, 2006 I am glad to see you are going to counseling. The problem is not that he can’t stop talking to her. The problem is that he WON’T stop talking to her, and he WON’T tell her to stop with the lovey dovey talk. If you make it clear that this is threatening your marriage, and that the behavior is 100 percent unacceptable to you, he will find a way to make it stop. Personally, if it were me, I would give some ultimatums, one of them being that he give up this account to.mor.row. Surely there is someone else who can help this client. I would also demand that he be an open book with email passwords, cell phone passwords, etc. If he has nothing to hide, he will hide nothing. Good luck to you. Oh, and don’t feel bad about being jealous. I have never in my life been jealous. Always the confident, strong woman who thought only insecure women worried about their husbands. Well mine started spending a lot of time with this group of people that included this one woman (who he worked with, peripherally, and who was a friend of ours along with her husband). He had a lot of female friends. No big deal. Turns out he would walk this woman back to her car after happy hour and screw her before she left the ramp. Then they started screwing over the noonhours. This went on for a decade. So the thing about protective wives being insecure? Joke's on me. Not to hijack this thread, but I disagree that emotional affairs are worse, b/c most of the time when affair partners have sex, they have already done the “emotional” dance. Plus, let’s face it – having sex IS very emotional, especially for women.
Author punkins_mama Posted May 30, 2006 Author Posted May 30, 2006 Thank you to all who have replied to my post. Things are going better now. We have been in counseling and I feel that while slow, it is working to some degree. Ultimatums definitley are NOT the way to go with this one. You would have to know my husband to understand. If I gave him an ultimatum, I am essentially ending my marriage. Besides, I do not feel that it is my place. He has problems that he admits to openly, how can I make it worse by FORCING him to choose when he already knows thats what he needs to do? Anyway, he told me this morning that he was done. He said he sent a lengthy email to the OW and told her that it had to end. He admitted that he had very strong feelings for her and that it hurt him to do it, but his family and his wife were more important. I felt so relieved. We both acknowledge that we still have a lot of work to do between the two of us. But it looks as though something has cleared his mind enough to make sense of this and realize that continuing to talk to her was continuing the problem. I am truly grateful for this and know that now more than ever we can both concentrate on rebuilding and strengthening our marriage. I'm lucky, I know many others end in divorce and while I'm not saying that it wont ever happen to me, it definitley wont happen now and I know he is committed to me and our family.
Chump64 Posted May 30, 2006 Posted May 30, 2006 I do not feel that it is my place. He has problems that he admits to openly, how can I make it worse by FORCING him to choose when he already knows thats what he needs to do? Hooah, you are far nicer than me. When I busted my husband, I gave him two choices: End it today or walk with me to the courthouse, where my attorney was willing to meet us and have us sign the divorce papers. I'm glad he has already made a decision. You sound like you are flooded with relief and you are happy. And rightly so. Just please, don't be naive. This man has already crossed some serious boundaries. Keep your eyes open and your ears to the ground, though. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Good luck.
theshells Posted June 1, 2006 Posted June 1, 2006 Hello, I am new to this whole thing, but I am looking for some advice, objective conversation, insight, whatever you want to call it. Here is my story... My husband and I have been married for 5 years and we have been together for 9. We have a two year-old little boy and I am seven months pregnant with a little girl that we tried really hard for after a rough miscarriage. All in all, we have had a very happy marriage. We rarely ever fight, we communicate very well, we spend a lot of time together and our intimacy couldn't be better. That is possibly why this is all still so shocking to me. My husband and I work for the same software company; I in marketing and he in technical support. About 2 months ago, he was assigned a specific client who is in another state about 11 hours away to assist with a great deal of technical issues they were having. He has never met this client or seen her face to face. When they were originally introduced over the phone, she started some chatty, friendly conversation with him that did not concern work. They talked about things like movies, music, etc. He told me all about this and told me about her. I have NEVER been a jealous person and have always had complete faith and trust in my husband. I had no reason to be concerned or doubt anything. I thought nothing of their friendly conversations. Then eventually, he stopped telling me about her and the subject sort-of died. Then one night about 2 weeks ago, we were watching a baseball game on tv and I noticed that he was chatting on the internet on his laptop which he rarely ever does. I, in a very joking tone of which I have used many times before, asked him, "Are you talking to your giiiiiiiiirlfriend?" He immediately snapped back at me, "She is NOT my girlfriend, do not call her that." I was stunned. He had never spoken to me like that or snapped at me about anything. His demeanor about the whole situation lodged an overwhelming doubt in my mind that I had never experienced before. The next day, I did something that I still regret. I have domain admin rights at work and I broke into his email account. My fears were confirmed. He had been talking to her night and day and the conversations were more than friendly. Not sexual, but very much "loving". They said things like, "I miss you", "I'm thinking about you", "You're special to me." etc. I was completely devastated. I feel like even though this was not a sexual "affair" if that is what you want to call it, it hurts worse because it involves emotion, love and feelings. I approached him about it that night and he was relieved that I knew but said he was ashamed and embarrassed about it all. He said he was extremely confused because he had no idea how and why he let it get this far when he had always been so in control. He was conflicted with thoughts of her vs. thoughts of me. It was/is killing him, but he didn't know how to stop it. He said he wanted to get counseling and we both have been going. It has helped so far. Although he needed a few days to come to this point, he did tell me that he was 100% committed to our marriage, me and our children. He tells me he loves me and our children and that this whole thing is killing him emotionally. The problem is, he can't stop talking to her. They have to talk regarding work and I understand that, but she continues to throw in talk of her "feelings" for him to which he does not reciprocate. He has told her that he wants to work on his family but that he doesn't want to hurt her either. She says she understands and she could not live with being the "other woman" or the responsibility of possibly breaking up a family. Yet, she wont stop telling him how much she cares about him and that she misses him, etc. I don't know what to do. I HATE being jealous. I have never been a jealous person and I absolutely hate what it is doing to me. I want to trust my husband, but at the same time, I can't sit back and honestly say that he's not thinking about her or talking to her. The temptation to read his email is constantly hounding me and I don't want it. I want to trust that he does love me, that he is committed to me and that things will work out, but I can't stop thinking about her and what has happened. Am I being too hard on myself? Am I being too hard on him? Am I doing something wrong/right? Any advice or support would be greatly appreciated. I have been through the same exact thing. They are addicted to each other. The only way to break the addiction is for ALL contact to be broken!!!
Love Hurts Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 A serpent has slithered into the happy nest to test it's strength and faithullness. The weak and vulnerable fall. You are one of the lucky ones you caught him on the edge of no return................. he is trying to pull back and remain true to his wife and life that he knows. Awkward and ugly as it is........... so now your in this new place. Your marriage will be forever changed because of it. You will take years to rebuild trust in him. At this moment in time - since he still chats with her *work related so he says* You can not even begin to rebuild what he has broken while he is still sorting and shifting the pieces. This will take some time to get over once he is finally finished with her. Only then can you both begin to rebuild. You have every red alert not to trust him. How dare he demand it of you. He was taking himself further out of the marriage and into what ever land. If you told him you trust him as you once did, you cheat yourself and him as well. He does not trust himself right now. He knows he is capable of what he has done and alot more given half the chance. I would stay on your guard. Let him be reminded how he hurt you violated your trust. He must regain your confidence in him.... It's on him to show you how much he values your relationship and what a fool he was... If every time you fight you throw that in his face... he knows you have not gotten over it and he better watch his step. Family is a beautiful thing. If you love each other and can work through this...... one day you may find yourselves closer and stronger than ever. Sometimes it takes something like this to wake up a bumble head... and make him realize just what he is about to cast away.... and for an unknown................... land of what ham and may ham. Trust takes time to build upon................ it's on him....... let him know.. as it is now... you can not , will not trust him........... he must win that back....... One day at a time.... I wish you well.... God Bless the family
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