RealityCheck Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 Maybe ya all can shed some insight into a thought that keeps coming to my mind. For me, I fell hard and fast for my MM. I have never fallen this hard and fast on a single on single situation. When a single on single situation happens, we are still faced with same type of mystery, the chase, the passion and all of that, but it seems to go at a slower pace. Why is it that being the OW or OM we fall so freakin hard and fast? Heck, I would like to shut my brain off but it just won't shut the hell up!
Sami_D Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 I can't answer that because, though I am sure MM is the man for me, it has come at a time (age 43) when I have been through so many different situations and relationships that, while I KNOW he is the one for me.. I am still able (find it necessary, possible?) to hold back, and not fall, not become idiotic, not do all sorts of ridiculous things... ... Yet I know.. he is the one. Doesn't matter that I can sit here calmly (now, almost)... I know he is the one. And I'm not feeling ANY of the desperate feelings I did in some of my other relationships... not doing anything odd or freakish... I'm just... being here.. knowing he's the one... I love him... He's the one I want to spend the rest of my days with.
Author RealityCheck Posted April 30, 2006 Author Posted April 30, 2006 Gee Sami.... I am the same age as you and understand exactly what you have said in terms of experience is knowledge, but for me I really fight with myself to believe he is not exactly what I need in terms of a full blown relationship. Now, I'm starting to wonder if I am fighting denial..... See! this brain won't shut down! Glad you are here, because obviously I have some work to do!
scarletletter Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 I can understand and relate to what you are both saying. I fell so hard and fast for MM that my head was spinning. The feelings that I had and still have sometimes cloud my logical thinking but now that some time has passed I am just taking it for what it is. We are both in love with each other and are very grateful for any time that we get to spend together. We are both wanting more than we can give at this time but we try to focus on our time together and not our time apart. I know he is perfect for me and I am perfect for him. It is the strangest thing. It's like I have looked all my life for this man and when I find him...well, he is not totally available. I love him with all my heart and I have given up on fighting the feelings anymore. I try to stay focused on what is real and what is not. I need him more than I can even say, but I don't ever really let him know how much. It is something that we both know and realize and we just go with it. Given the situations that we are both in, we are so thankful for any time together and when it feels like its not enough, I get very frustrated and depressed. I just really try to keep in mind that if either of us do anything foolish, it would be the end of our relationship. My advice is to try to push any negativity out of your head and know that he wants to be with you. So many will say, "if he wanted to be with you then he will get a divorce." It's not that simple in my case, I wish that it were. Just try to enjoy what you have and not focus on what you DON'T have.
Alexandra Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 I think you may well have a point, most of the people I worked with that were an OM or OW have seemed to believe feelings spring faster than in other sorts of relationships. Maybe it is connected to the inavailability, the way the situation seems fragile and volatile as well as to the amount of thought an affair requires of both partners. Potential guilt, fear of consequences, of the unknown, no clear plans, all those while potentially painful have their romantic aura and make people feel a lot very soon, it seems. To some it's the constant fear of being caught, to others the thrill, the flattering factor and generally the interdiction of it all. All in all they are relationships with far more emotions involved at a faster pace. That being said, many affairs are rather short lived so it seems probable that rollercoaster of emotions may bring about infatuation rather than deeper falling in love feelings. Disclaimer - This is my first post in this particular forum and that's because I've avoided answering here because from what I read so far, it's one where the majority of posters can personally relate (e.g they are OW or OM or BS themselves) I can only speak through the perspective education and dealing with many people in this situation brought about, but have not lived it, hence if the established members would like me to basically butt off, just let me know.
scarletletter Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 On the contrary, an outsider looking in can sometimes have the best information...sometimes. That is unless they are critisizing you for something that they know nothing about. You have some very valid points and I do agree with most of them. The fear of getting caught, however, does not excite me or bring any more passion into the relationship. It would be dreadful and I never even want to think about it.
Author RealityCheck Posted April 30, 2006 Author Posted April 30, 2006 I'm with ScarletLetter on this..... The fear of getting caught does nothing to excite me either! Certainly does not feed the passion. Its all the love and tenderness that feeds the R.
scarletletter Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 Damn men, anyway!! Who do they think they are? They come in and steal our hearts and get everything in return. Too bad we cannot do without them, huh?
Jessie61 Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 I am not particularly romantic, I never fall in love at first sight, instead a guy has to earn his way into my heart. I was never actively seeking a man (in fact at the time I met MM I was actively avoiding men!), but I fell madly in love with him over a business lunch. I'd known him from before, but never spoken to him. I can't even remember a word we said, but the first time we looked up from our conversation the other people at the table had left, and so had the rest of the restaurant.... I smiled all the way driving home, and I k-n-e-w that he felt exactly the same. MM is far from perfect; he can be bossy, demanding and sometimes he is incredibly vain, but he is perfect for me. And I think I am perfect for him, despite all my flaws. From day one we have been able to speak about everything. We're genuine friends. We have the same interests. We accept each other's faults - and there are plenty. We laugh together and I love his acidic sharpe sense of humour. We can talk about work, as we are in the same business (but we don't work together!) Effectively all of last year we fought like cats and dogs - because I was trying to get away from him and he would not let me. In fact, I was startled to realise that there were very few seize fires last year, and that we had spent much more time in NC than "together". But despite all this c**p, we still smile at each other and melt when we have met, and everything bad is totally forgotten in an instant. Now, would I have put up with all this for anyone else? Not in a million years!!!! Does that answer you query...? Hardly!!!!
Alexandra Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 You have some very valid points and I do agree with most of them. Thank you, I'll stay for a while then unless the voting goes to the contrary... The fear of getting caught, however, does not excite me or bring any more passion into the relationship. I'm sorry, I should have clarified, that is mostly one of the many things I hear from MM in extra marital affairs, not women.
Author RealityCheck Posted April 30, 2006 Author Posted April 30, 2006 I found my MM always said "all the right things". He somehow knew what I wanted to hear. Except "I'm getting a Divorce"....*laughing* So I asked him one day, through our conversations in person, on the phone and via email, how do you know how to say all the things I want to hear? Is it because you actually mean it, or is this a stratagy to the affair? In a sense of fulfilling all of my perfect desire of a Man. His reply was he actually means all of what he says and that the connection we have is so amazing it actually comes natural! *shakes head* Well if it feels so damn natural with me, WHY? WHY? WHY? Do they not act on getting their head straight and leave the M. Why do they deprive themselves of it all?
lovernotafighter Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 Maybe ya all can shed some insight into a thought that keeps coming to my mind. For me, I fell hard and fast for my MM. I have never fallen this hard and fast on a single on single situation. When a single on single situation happens, we are still faced with same type of mystery, the chase, the passion and all of that, but it seems to go at a slower pace. Why is it that being the OW or OM we fall so freakin hard and fast? Heck, I would like to shut my brain off but it just won't shut the hell up! I wondered whats the deal with this as well...because, and I am using my MM's words which described our feelings so well, he said "it's over whelming" and that it is. never in my wildest dreams could I imagine that I'd feel this way about any one...so what is it? it's not the fear of getting caught for me..because that doesn't thrill me at all..but I do think part does have to do with his unavailability . I can't just pick up the phone when ever I please and call him..and I also am more guarded about being irrational...when I sometimes want to chew his ass.I don't. but also like it has been said..we are getting the best parts of our MM's..with out cares or responsibilities...and I am sure we (he and I) try a little harder to please one another because our time together is so few and far between...so what do we have? on the surface the ideal relationship with one huge flaw...we are both married! there is also something to be said for wanting something you can't have..we will remain just outside of each others reach...and that's maddening to people in love.
lovernotafighter Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 I think you may well have a point, most of the people I worked with that were an OM or OW have seemed to believe feelings spring faster than in other sorts of relationships. Maybe it is connected to the inavailability, the way the situation seems fragile and volatile as well as to the amount of thought an affair requires of both partners. Potential guilt, fear of consequences, of the unknown, no clear plans, all those while potentially painful have their romantic aura and make people feel a lot very soon, it seems. To some it's the constant fear of being caught, to others the thrill, the flattering factor and generally the interdiction of it all. All in all they are relationships with far more emotions involved at a faster pace. That being said, many affairs are rather short lived so it seems probable that rollercoaster of emotions may bring about infatuation rather than deeper falling in love feelings. Disclaimer - This is my first post in this particular forum and that's because I've avoided answering here because from what I read so far, it's one where the majority of posters can personally relate (e.g they are OW or OM or BS themselves) I can only speak through the perspective education and dealing with many people in this situation brought about, but have not lived it, hence if the established members would like me to basically butt off, just let me know. I'm glad you posted this...I think I should have read your post before my last post ...but hey. you hit a peg on the button..fragile and volatile are a perfect expression..I would think my relationship walks on a tight rope or a edge of a knife..at any moment it can end..at any moment it can change...and has in record time...very nice post Alexandra,thank you
Author RealityCheck Posted May 1, 2006 Author Posted May 1, 2006 Now this is something to ponder!! I think I'm going to sit on this for awhile!
Alexandra Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 You've outlined two of the most important parts that go into topic. Or rather one. The ideal. The "Casablanca syndrome" that whether we like to think of, or not, strikes a romantic chord in all of us. Fulfilled, calm, homely, every-day love is boring afterall, there's a reason the majority of memorable Hollywood movies depict tragic love affairs not accomplished ones. Love Story, Ana Karenina, Whutering Heights, Gone With the Wind heck even Titanic. They're all sad stories of ideal love. but also like it has been said..we are getting the best parts of our MM's..with out cares or responsibilities...and I am sure we (he and I) try a little harder to please one another because our time together is so few and far between...so what do we have? on the surface the ideal relationship I've found one of the exercises that helped with people I was counseling that were trying to terminate an affair was having them focus on what the person they love really is like on a day-to-day basis. How often to they help in the house? Can they cook? Do they come home late? Etc. Most didn't know these things about their partners because of the circumstances of their relationship, a few others decided to ignore the exercise and give idealistic responses from how they believed the other partner would act and everyone almost rejected that the way the respective person reacts like in his or her marriage now, is the way they could keep on reacting with them. However, in some cases I understood it helped. When one tries hard enough to be rational often times they can admit they are in love with an image not a person who will have to take out the trash and might not want to. there is also something to be said for wanting something you can't have..we will remain just outside of each others reach...and that's maddening to people in love. I read on this board many times how an affair turned into marriage or partnership won't work because of the baggage and issue the other party will bring into a normal relationship if they would leave their spouse for them. What has only rarely been said is how to the OW or OM as long as they are waiting for the "result" the "outcome", the time that they would be together forever, it's thrilling, it's a chase. And that, they in themselves, can be the reason why it may not work once it's there. Because they got "there". The fight is over, the prize is won. Everyone in love and in an affair reading this will dismiss it. "Nah, not me, when we'll be together everything will be perfect and even if not, I won't be the one messing it up." Messing it up willingly is rarely the case. There are usually many subconscient desires and needs at play and those can well sap a relationship. In short to avoid being in love with the just an ideal two questions seemed to help "Is it him/her I am in love with or the idea of them, what I get now, will I get the exact same deal later?" and "Will I still want him/her as passionately once I can have them?". Before anyone has a fit, I am far from judging anyone much less trying to tell anyone they should not have an affair. To some people having had the affair and took action consequently was the best thing that ever happened to them, they found their soulmate and lived happily ever after. But I think we can safely say we all know those are the exceptions and a tiny percentage. If you've asked yourself those two questions and they hold well under personal, rational and as-objective-as-possible scrutiny maybe you are from that percentage so they can't hurt.
movinon05 Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 Welcome Alexandra, While you say many As are short lived, I don't think (but what do I know) that we all get to see the short ones. I believe the people on here are or were in longer type As and that is why we are posting. Because its so emotionally draining and we're looking for similar perspectives to help get through. It seems to me the short termers are going and getting help to try to end it rather than share a story here. but I could be wrong
Author RealityCheck Posted May 1, 2006 Author Posted May 1, 2006 Alexandra..... I have put much thought into the "idea" of who my MM actually is... According to him, the W does all the cooking because he has never learned and simply does not have an interest to cook. This I can understand, because I certainly have no interest in giving my car an oil change or other mechanical related tasks. Having said this, my MM does everything else! All the shopping, vacuming, fridge and oven cleaning, windows, yard work etc.... Why? because his W is "lazy". She just won't do it! She's a couch patatoe and has no outside interests. At 300 lbs, I guess she has no motivation for anything. I have also addressed to my MM that perhaps she could be in some sort of depression that could have been cause by post-partum after the baby was born and she never fully recovered. He did say that after the baby was born she let herself go. The child is now 8, so I don't really know now what the problem is with his W. They both have outstanding careers, but his W now is off on leave and has been for over a year. In addition to my MM's career he also volunteers his time for other good causes. Maybe to get out of the house more and find some kind of fulfillment that he lacks in his marriage. Who knows! He keeps himself fit and does all the right things for "Self" except get out of the M for his so called "practicle reasons" Duh..... My MM has a very intellectual mind, "educated" speaking but seems to lack "life" smarts. He was not the womanizing type in his younger years and has had little experience in relationships. This has been his struggle with wanting to leave the M. There is absolutely no love in his M!! When I asked him if he felt guilty having the A his response was "NOT AT ALL"!. So, when it comes down to the "idea" of who he really is, I do believe in some sense that he is, who I think he is. But I do wrestle with the thought, is he what I want with his lack of "life experience". Everything else is there except that! Because when it comes down to a full blown relationship, compatibility is key in this area!
zarathustra Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 I've found one of the exercises that helped with people I was counseling that were trying to terminate an affair was having them focus on what the person they love really is like on a day-to-day basis. How often to they help in the house? Can they cook? Do they come home late? Etc. Most didn't know these things about their partners because of the circumstances of their relationship, a few others decided to ignore the exercise and give idealistic responses from how they believed the other partner would act and everyone almost rejected that the way the respective person reacts like in his or her marriage now, is the way they could keep on reacting with them. However, in some cases I understood it helped. When one tries hard enough to be rational often times they can admit they are in love with an image not a person who will have to take out the trash and might not want to. Hi Alexandra, I'm so glad you joined this forum. This is a great exercise. My xMM and I actually did live together for a few months (he did leave his W for me but went back shortly). Maybe that's what he felt about me. That I'm not so neat and tidy and I don't keep everything in the same place. Who knows. However, my xMM helped around the house (neat freak), took out the garbage all the time, did the vacuuming, went home around the same time I did (we work together... still do ). I did all the cooking and made him breakfast and lunch each day even though I don't eat either of those meals. In the end, I lost to history and familiarity. Live and learn I guess. You are absolutely right. I've said this before, I feel in love (and fell hard and fast) with an image of what the xMM presented to me. In the cold light of day, he's not that man. The MM I fell in love with, would not be a heartless man who would have put his family through the turmoil he did unless he was sure of a future with me. A man who could come and go the way he did with his family, hurting so many without so much as a simple thought cannot possibly be someone that I can fall in love with. I refuse to believe it. I'd rather believe that I'm gullible and stupid first before believing that I had the capacity to love someone who is so heartless to all those around him. He told me recently that what he did was dispicable and that each day he feels bad for what he's done to me and my life. What utter bulls***.
Author RealityCheck Posted May 1, 2006 Author Posted May 1, 2006 Zara..... Now if that isn't a golden truth of reality "lost to history and familiarity" I don't know what is!!! My ex MM has spoken those words a few times within his reasoning of practicality! Doesn't leave because of the history and familiar life style!! I do believe my 40 watt light bulb is changing to 100 watts everytime I read these posts!! SHEEEEEEESH!!! Glad you shared that one!!!
zarathustra Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 Zara..... Now if that isn't a golden truth of reality "lost to history and familiarity" I don't know what is!!! My ex MM has spoken those words a few times within his reasoning of practicality! Doesn't leave because of the history and familiar life style!! I do believe my 40 watt light bulb is changing to 100 watts everytime I read these posts!! SHEEEEEEESH!!! Glad you shared that one!!! RC, I'm glad to hear about the lightbulb brightening. I only wish I knew of this site before I got overly involved with my xMM. I think I'm a reasonable person. I think had I read these posts first, I would steer clear of my xMM.
movinon05 Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 RC, I'm glad to hear about the lightbulb brightening. I only wish I knew of this site before I got overly involved with my xMM. I think I'm a reasonable person. I think had I read these posts first, I would steer clear of my xMM. I was so damn naive and innocent back then, I would have been scared shytless!
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