Another Love but not IN Love Story

[DesperateDad]

Thanks, SoleMate. I know we're not out of the woods yet, but it does seem like we're making some progress.

 

Just this morning she mentioned to me that she'd been looking at some relationship articles on MSN, but that every one of them said it was necessary for BOTH of us to WANT to reconcile. Then she said she didn't know if she could do that.

 

It does seem that Plan A is working and that with more time it will be successful, but it still scares the hell out of me when she talks like that. Is she starting to come around?

 

BTW, my answer was just, "I understand." I added that it took a long time to get here and I don't expect it to change over night. That was all I said. That "I understand" is the best tool I have and works like a charm!

[Ladyjane14]

Just this morning she mentioned to me that she'd been looking at some relationship articles on MSN, but that every one of them said it was necessary for BOTH of us to WANT to reconcile. Then she said she didn't know if she could do that.

 

It does seem that Plan A is working and that with more time it will be successful, but it still scares the hell out of me when she talks like that. Is she starting to come around?

 

BTW, my answer was just, "I understand." I added that it took a long time to get here and I don't expect it to change over night. That was all I said. That "I understand" is the best tool I have and works like a charm!

 

Good job DesperateDad!

 

The "didn't know if she could do that" comment is fogtalk. It supports her rationalizations of why the marriage can't work. You were right not to get drawn in.

 

We already know that for 'Marriage' to be successful it takes two. But she's not in any shape to make a decision about that until she's left the affair fantasy behind. She can't SEE you clearly when she's busy looking at someone else, right?

 

Once she's out of the affair bubble and her vision is clear... you can then engage her in discussion of her POV, and maybe it'll have some validity. Who knows. But it's certainly not valid now while her interest lies elsewhere.

 

I would continue to Plan A, and not allow her to bait me. Remember....she wants conflict. It justifies her position.

[DesperateDad]

LJ, you are SO RIGHT! She did say early on when we were still arguing that she expected me to just get angry and give up. She thought I would just say 'fine' and run off with one of the 20 year old girls I go to school with. It really threw her for a loop when I convinced her of how I really feel about her (yes, she says she believes me now).

 

I did realize after my affair that that sort of relationship couldn't possibly work for me. I really AM almost 36 years old and a relatively comfortable suburban dad. The things that make me unhappy are all internal, not external.

 

My wife has been really shocked (and obviously pleased) by my behavior lately. Oddly enough, the way I've been acting has made ME happier, too. It feels strange, but liberating, like I've given up a very tedious battle. Our interactions are so much more pleasant now. I'm so stupid for not realizing this sooner.

 

I think the fights we've had in the past have been 95% my fault and I've acted like a spoiled child. I'm no longer immediately going on the defensive and that keeps fights from even starting.

 

We're talking more now every day than we have for probably more than a year. Like I've said before, the situation still terrifies me, but I'm going to hang in there and try as hard as I can not to fall into the same old habits again. Those habits (of thinking and reacting) were the things that she hated the most about me and now I know that they are also the things that I hate about me.

[Ladyjane14]

She did say early on when we were still arguing that she expected me to just get angry and give up. She thought I would just say 'fine' and run off with one of the 20 year old girls I go to school with. It really threw her for a loop when I convinced her of how I really feel about her (yes, she says she believes me now).

 

I did realize after my affair that that sort of relationship couldn't possibly work for me. I really AM almost 36 years old and a relatively comfortable suburban dad. The things that make me unhappy are all internal, not external.

 

My wife has been really shocked (and obviously pleased) by my behavior lately. Oddly enough, the way I've been acting has made ME happier, too. It feels strange, but liberating, like I've given up a very tedious battle. Our interactions are so much more pleasant now. I'm so stupid for not realizing this sooner.

 

I think the fights we've had in the past have been 95% my fault and I've acted like a spoiled child. I'm no longer immediately going on the defensive and that keeps fights from even starting.

 

We're talking more now every day than we have for probably more than a year. Like I've said before, the situation still terrifies me, but I'm going to hang in there and try as hard as I can not to fall into the same old habits again. Those habits (of thinking and reacting) were the things that she hated the most about me and now I know that they are also the things that I hate about me.

 

Awesome post, DesperateDad.

Worthwhile reading for ANY guy in your situation.

 

You're so right. The weight of the world is lifted of your shoulders once you make those kind of realizations. You're no longer a victim. Life isn't just happening to you.... you're living it again.

[bkz]

My wife has been really shocked (and obviously pleased) by my behavior lately. Oddly enough, the way I've been acting has made ME happier, too. It feels strange, but liberating, like I've given up a very tedious battle. Our interactions are so much more pleasant now. I'm so stupid for not realizing this sooner.

QUOTE]

 

Your doing great. One of the things about crisis like this is how much we CAN grow from it by taking a real good look at ourselves. For me its been a getting to know me experiance. I didnt like at all what I saw at first but now im really starting to appritiate the things about myself that others allways have and change the things I can to make myself better. Its like an awakening, feels almost like ive been living in the dark for so many years at times. Its also important not to beet yourself up or be too hard on yourself for the past. Youve both contibuted to your marriage getting to this point and your stepping up, taking responsibility and making the changes that need to be made to make things right. Now its her turn to do the same and it seems like the last few days shes showing signs of trying to do that, I sure hope so.

 

Its great your wife is seing the changes and seems happy with them. Stick with it cause its probley gonna take some time for her to believe there real and permanent. I also wouldnt be surprised if she started testing you a bit and mabye pushing some of those buttons of yours she knows about to get a reaction, make sure its not the reaction she expects. My wife did this for a while but because of her mental stuff and EXTREAM insecurity, I still dont think after 8 months shes convinced of my changes being real, acutally im sure shes not at this point but shes definatley showing SOME signs of coming around.

 

Keep up the good work!!!!!

[DesperateDad]

Thanks a bunch once again, LJ and bkz. It's been a real epiphany for me to realize that life doesn't have to be a huge war with daily skirmishes and long battle campaigns of weeks and months and yes, even years (like with my job!). It's once again all about choices.

 

I do see this as a sort of continuation or even culmination of thought processes that I'd begun years ago and then put on hold because of the desperate state of my life. That was the problem, though. My life hasn't BEEN desperate; I only CHOSE to see it that way. It's amazing how clearly we can see once we actually open our eyes.

 

I'm honestly a bit scared that I'll fall back into negative thinking. I really have to police my own thoughts pretty aggressively to keep on track. I'm assuming this will get easier with time.

 

So, am I wrong to assume that the things she's saying indicate she's starting to reconsider and possibly beginning to see me in a different light?

[bkz]

I'm honestly a bit scared that I'll fall back into negative thinking. I really have to police my own thoughts pretty aggressively to keep on track. I'm assuming this will get easier with time.

 

So, am I wrong to assume that the things she's saying indicate she's starting to reconsider and possibly beginning to see me in a different light?

 

I felt the same way about getting back into old patterns and was concerned about slipping at times. I found for the most part possitive thinking allways wins out, it becomes habit after a while and the more you respond and act in a possitive way the better and more naturaly it feels. So yes I believe it will get alot easier with time and PATIANCE, try not to put too much pressure on yourself.

 

So far as her starting to change her perception? Its hard to say because its kinda soon to tell. The things shes doing/saying the last few days though sure SEEM encouraging!!! Just keep doing what your doing and try to stay off her emotional roller coaster if you can, easyer said than done I know.

[DesperateDad]

Last night was sort of a relapse. For her, I think, but not for me. First of all, the NC isn't working between my wife and the neighbor. I called on my way home and she admitted he and another (male) neighbor were over at my place hanging out and watching their kids. They were all outside sitting around talking.

 

I sort of hesitated, but said okay and then played it off when she mentioned his name. She must have noticed something because when I got home he was back at his place and my wife and kids were over at the other neighbors (right next door).

 

Here's what gets me: she was so completely hateful to me when I got home. She was another person again. She kept baiting me, saying that it was my house, I was in charge. Every time one of the kids asked for something, she told them to ask me. Very infantile and not like her at all.

 

After supper, the neighbors were all out in the yards talking and having a few beers and we went out and everyone congregated at our place (this happens a lot in the warm weather). He came back over and sat with the men for a little bit talking and then went over to talk to my wife. There were other people there, too.

 

After they all left, guess what? He f'ing calls her to talk about his mean wife who he has a court date with today for his divorce! He is so reliant on my wife that he can't seem to let go. She is apparently still stuck in this fantasy.

 

My dilemma is that even though she's showing signs of coming around, she changes personality completely after she's been around him. She told me last night that he admitted to his wife that he had 'strong feelings' for my wife (she suspected all ready), but that they had agreed to be 'just friends.'

 

To my credit, I have to say that I didn't take the bait last night at all. I didn't show any anger and I stayed cheerful and acted happy all evening, even as she continued to taunt me all the way up to bedtime. It was thoroughly exhausting and I was seething inside much of the time.

 

I'm afraid to push the NC thing too much right now because of her reactions. I'm afraid if I do she'll run right out and retain a lawyer. The funny thing is that when she hasn't been around him, things seem to be going better between us.

 

I don't know what to expect today when she wakes up. I'm still sticking to Plan A, but feeling really depressed and tired right now.

[dgiirl]

I dont know much about Plan A or B, and maybe one of the others can offer better advice, but I think you should mention something about your wife's taunting. Dont go postal on her, because that's exactly what she's looking for, but atleast stand up for yourself and respectfully ask her to not do the things that is upsetting you. And if she continues to do so, then leave the room. Of course, she has every right to continue to do what she wants (ie talking with this other guy), but she doesnt need to come home and flaunt it to you either. I would say something along the lines of "You have every right to choose your friends and live your life the way you want, and even tho I dont like it, I cant force you to do what I want. The only thing I will expect from you is to not flaunt this relationship in my face to get me angry." She'll probably come up with some lame excuse or something. Simply do not engage. I think this will show her that you do expect respect, and if she cannot be mature enough to give it to you, then you're going to have enough respect for the two of you to not engage. Just walk away instead of arguing. I think it will make you feel better about yourself (you're standing up for yourself) and it will show her how you expect to be treated, and she'll start to respect you more. Right now, she doesnt respect you. This is why she's doing all of these things. And she's trying to antangonize you because she wants to see what you'll do. She wants that control over you. Dont give her the control, AND do stand up for yourself, but just in a mature respectful way instead of a heated arguement where noone listens to anyone.

[Ladyjane14]

I dont know much about Plan A or B.....

 

Apparently, I don't know much about it either, according to one regular poster over there who seems to believe that I think it stands for "Appeasement" and "Butt-kissing". :lmao:

 

I think dgiirl is 'right-on'.

 

You don't have to be a door-mat in order to prove your changes. You're not made of stone. Don't allow her to engage you in conflict....because she REALLY WANTS to ....but let her know how hurt you feel. It's honest, and it's not accusatory. It's just a simple statement of your perspective.

 

If you avoid statements that begin with "You", and instead opt for statements that begin with "I feel"... you'll have better luck. And do take a time-out if the discussion becomes less than constructive.

 

Good luck.

[DesperateDad]

I think you're right, dgiirl. I should be standing up for myself in some way. I'm just not sure of how to do that right now without making things worse.

 

This morning didn't actually go too badly. She did make some references to not being happy and not being able to do what she wants. She also said and has said this a LOT in the last few weeks: Everyone else thinks they know what's best for me, but no one cares what I want.

 

I'm hoping that this will sink in sometime soon. That is, if everyone thinks you're doing something wrong, is it possible that you really ARE doing something wrong?

 

I keep thinking that she'll see the reality of the situation soon. She's really not stupid and has been a damn good wife up till about a year or so ago when we stopped communicating.

 

I just can't believe that she really believes it's okay to be doing what she's doing and that things will magically be better without me. I know a lot of it is fogtalk. I wish she would talk to somebody, but she insists she doesn't want to and doesn't need to.

 

At least people are starting to ask questions about her relationship with this guy or why he isn't around as much as he used to be. She's finding that she has to lie to everyone and it's pissing her off. She blames me for that. Can you believe it?

[DesperateDad]

And thanks, LJ. After thinking about it a little bit, that makes sense. I can tell her honestly that it hurts my feelings without going on the counterattack.

 

I was pretty good about letting it roll off last night, but it really does bother me that they both think it's okay for him to run to MY wife for comfort whenever things are going badly for him or his STBXW is mean to him. Honestly, I'd like to tell him to grow a pair of balls and deal with it himself or talk to a real counselor. My compassion for him is just about completely gone now.

 

He has a court date today for his divorce so I think the real battle over custody of his kids is going to start. It's going to get ugly because he wants full custody and his attorney is telling him he has a good shot at it. I think it's BS and will end up costing him lots of money and trouble. His STBXW may be a bitch, but you need a lot more than that for the judge to take custody away from her.

 

My fear is that he'll turn to my wife more and more as it gets harder for him. How can I stop this without driving her away? Last time I talked to him about it and he agreed to keep his distance, but it's not enough. Without him around, we have a really good chance at making this work. I just don't know how to make him stay away.

[Ladyjane14]

I know it would be a b*tch to manage... but maybe you might consider moving out of that neighborhood. Maybe even to a whole new area.

 

It's a major inconvenience, but if it keeps your family intact then...what's more important ultimately than that?

 

If OM is only set to become MORE needy and desperate for your wife's attention, I can't see this situation as getting better rather than worse in the long run. Short of kicking his ass and getting yourself thrown into jail, I'm not sure what else you might do to discourage him.

 

There IS the concept of "exposure", but you'll drag your wife into that as well. It might come to that, but you'll have to be the judge of when. 'Exposure' in every instance is not an MB concept that I readily embrace. While I think it has it's uses.... my personal view is that as a tool, it needs to be handled carefully. (Ooooops! I'm not toeing the company line again! )

 

Anyway, what are the possibilities of selling the house and moving?

[DesperateDad]

Hmmm. It's not really a good time for us financially to be thinking about moving. I think I would have a real hard time convincing her to move right now anyway. I have thought about it, though, and I'll think about it some more.

 

I don't know what the chances are of him moving away and/or stopping contact. I'm honestly terrified that if I give him an ultimatum and he tells her about it, she'll leave me. I really feel like the root of her relationship with him is pity. She pities him because of his pathetic situation and he loves her for listening to him and caring.

 

She really seems to be looking for my permission to split up. She's tried to convince me a couple of times that it can't work out between us. She wants me to tell her it's okay for her to run off with him (but running off with him means ME leaving!) and I'm not about to do that.

 

This morning she also said something like "I guess we can go on like this forever." Then she called me on my cellphone while I was driving to work and asked me why I wasn't talking to her and if I had something I wanted to talk about.

 

I told her that I WAS talking to her and that I was always ready to talk to her anytime. She didn't contest that at all, because I HAVE told her I will talk to her anytime and about anything she wants to talk about. In fact, I just said it before leaving the house!

 

She sounds uncertain about everything now, but is still not talking about making things work yet. While it may be possible for us to reconcile with this guy out there, it's making it really hard for me.

 

Also, if there's any exposure, I don't want it to come from me unless they get physical. Then, it might be necessary.

 

I know this guy wants to stay in the neighborhood, but things have changed and it's never going to be the same old fun stuff we used to do. Everybody hear has been really close and our kids play together and the grown ups hang out together. He has to realize on some level that it can't ever be the same. This isn't just going to blow over. I can't trust him with my wife. Ever.

 

I'm sorry. I'm thinking out loud and rambling on. I'm really trying to brainstorm for a way to get him to go away without it being MY idea. The very best thing right now in my view would be for him to initiate NC and move away. I believe this might be possible, but what can I do to make that happen without alienating my wife further?

[dgiirl]

If you avoid statements that begin with "You", and instead opt for statements that begin with "I feel"... you'll have better luck. And do take a time-out if the discussion becomes less than constructive.

 

Oops I keep forgetting this

 

But this is one of the things I told my ex right from the beginning "Do not flaunt your relationship with this girl in front of me". And he honestly hasnt. I gave him the respect for him to make his own decisions (ie seeing this girl), but I also told him that I expected the same respect back (ie dont be mean and hurt me intentionally)

 

I wouldnt talk to her in the heat of the moment, but I would take a break, collect your thoughts, and mention how it makes you feel without blaming her. Write her a letter if you think it'll help keep things objective. Remember, you cannot control her or the situation. And the more you try, the more she'll pull away. But you can demand some self-respect, and allowing her to taunt you is not acceptable.

[DesperateDad]

I forgot to mention one more thing my wife said to me this morning. She said, "How long will this, you acting like this, last? This isn't you." I replied that it IS me and she didn't answer. She's noticing the changes and it's making her think. That's at least got to be working in my favor.

 

If I can keep a good attitude and keep working on ME, maybe I can convince her that I'm the choice with fewer headaches and less pain, while he will most definately be the choice with great sorrow and pain and loss and ongoing conflict. Much of what she really values in life will be lost or damaged if she chooses to go with him. She HAS to be thinking these thoughts...

[DesperateDad]

And thanks, dgiirl. I'm trying to move slowly on things, but worry about other factors making it worse in the meantime. I think it's a 50/50 chance that things might get worse or better in the next few weeks, I guess. Or maybe the odds are more in my favor now since I've changed my behavior...

 

She did IM me at work this afternoon to apologize for her mood last night and today. She told me again that she feels like she has no say in what happens to her and that so many things are hitting her at once. I told her I do understand and that I really want to help her.

 

So, how can I help her with this? I don't want to tell her she can do whatever she wants, but I want to be able to answer this with something that won't piss her off. I want to say we just CAN'T do whatever we want. Nobody can.

[DesperateDad]

Well, we had another discussion last night. It didn't go very well. I did manage to keep my cool and stick with "I understand" for the most part. I didn't yell, but did mention that she had been deliberately trying to hurt me with her words and that I didn't appreciate it. She responded with the anger and hatred that I've been getting used to lately, but pretty calmly.

 

She still has no feelings for me and still wants to get divorced. The subject of the neighbor came up and she assured me again that they are just friends and that all they talk about is what they talk about in front of me and other people. She said they don't ever talk about our relationship, but that he does talk about HIS divorce.

 

When I mentioned going NC with him she got really upset again about me trying to control her. I told her that I had been friendly with him regardless. She's said that she has seen a side of me that she can't live with, the side of me that wants to control her.

 

I explained that I was just trying to protect my marriage and family and that her reactions regarding him were what were making me suspicious. I asked again for her to convince me that they had no intentions of having more of a relationship. She assured me again that they are only friends.

 

She was talking about wanting to file immediately so I backed off on any requests or demands regarding the neighbor. I feel like my best chance is to keep the status quo while giving Plan A more time to have an effect.

 

She still doesn't think that this new me is going to last. I told her that I wouldn't make it to forty if I kept going that way with all the anger and stress and depression. She said, "Good. You can go back to being that way." I asked her if she really wanted that then and she said no.

 

I think LadyJane is right about her feeding on conflict because it tends to validate her feelings about me and our relationship. I have to make sure to avoid fighting, anger, demands, etc at all costs.

 

One thing that was interesting, though, was that she mentioned that she had been thinking maybe it was possible to see if we could reconnect, but that me trying to control her (last night) had ruined that. I know there are a lot of iffy words in that statement, but it was the first time since she told me she didn't love me anymore that she admitted to thinking about it.

 

This does give me some hope that Plan A can work if I'm given the time. The only thing I'm asking of her now is to stay together for the kids for a time. I also told her that I believed we should BOTH be in agreement that it's the right thing before getting a divorce and that I can't go on like this forever, either.

 

She believes that the kids will be hurt more by noticing the parents aren't having a romantic loving relationship than by a divorce. I told her I totally disagree and that the kids would be fine as long as we were polite to each other and didn't fight, but that they would be badly hurt by a divorce.

 

So, back to working on Plan A and steering clear of any conflict. I only hope she stops to think before starting any legal action. I do have hope that this can still be saved, but it will definately take time. Am I doing the right thing here?

[dgiirl]

D, I dont think it went too bad. You voiced your opinions, which is a very good thing. You told her that it is hurting you. Now, if she continues to do taunt you, you know full well she's doing it intentionally. And if she does, just leave the room. Let her realize you are not going to engage with her.

 

As for the neighbour, I think you've been very clear with your opinion on the issue. She knows you dont want her to talk to him. So when she does go and talks to him, she knows full well, it's again something that is hurting you. I think at this point, whenever the topic of the neighbour comes up, I think you should stop her and say "Listen, I've been very clear with my feelings on our neighbour. I dont want to fight with you over the same issues over and over again. You're a grown woman, you're allowed to make your own decisions, but I dont want to talk about him". And dont engage. You've been very clear with what you want, and for you to repeat yourself is only going to cause conflict, and you want to avoid conflict. But you also need to set boundaries. If a conversation is not being productive, then give the topic a rest.

 

It's as if she's bringing up these topics to show you her independance. The more you tell her she cannot talk to the neighbour, the more she's going to rebel. I think you should give her some validation that she IS allowed to do what she chooses, but those choices also have consequences. Plus you have your own boundaries.

 

I dont know the best way to word this, but I think if you do this AND Plan A her, you'll do a lot better. Atleast you will keep your own emotions in line.

[Ladyjane14]

She did make some references to not being happy and not being able to do what she wants. She also said and has said this a LOT in the last few weeks: Everyone else thinks they know what's best for me, but no one cares what I want......

 

I just can't believe that she really believes it's okay to be doing what she's doing and that things will magically be better without me. I know a lot of it is fogtalk. I wish she would talk to somebody, but she insists she doesn't want to and doesn't need to.....

 

Just what exactly is it that she wants? What does she think a divorce with you is going to look like? Does she think her lifestyle will continue on as it is...just without you in it? Does she think that you're going to be her "friend" after divorce? Does she think that you'll ever take her back if it doesn't work out the way she planned? Does she think you're going to leave your home and leave your children to be raised by another man?

 

You know, alot of women go through a life-stage in their mid-thirties which could be loosely described as a female mid-life crisis. I know I sure did.

And like your wife, I found fault with my husband. In some ways, I blamed him for the fact that here I was....as grown up as I was ever going to be....and because of him and the family life he'd saddled me with, NONE of my personal dreams were ever going to come true. I was stuck. And I was always going to be somebody's mother and somebody's wife....and NEVER just me, doing what I wanted to do.

 

I was trapped by the circumstances of my life, and I considered my husband as "controlling" all those circumstances. And I couldn't see that it was ME who was making the choices all along. It wasn't him who had let me down. It was me. I'm the one who didn't nurture my BIG dreams to fruition. I'm the one who was choosing to be unhappy.

 

The good news for guys who are dealing with women in this life-stage is that she'll eventually get over it. Just in time for YOUR midlife crisis!

 

The bad news is that this is a dangerous time for marriage survival. Alot of these women will take it to the wall, and follow through with divorce.

 

In my case, I had no illusions about what divorce would truly mean. My husband would have been the KING of all belligerent ex-husbands. He'd have done everything in his power to spite me, and there wasn't going to be any of this "let's be friends" crap. I can't fault him for it. I'd be the same way!

 

Even if I could deal with that, what it would mean in real-life terms for my kids is step-parents, and step-sisters, and half-brothers. I'd have to trust STRANGERS to be around my children. My husband would most certainly have moved on and involved himself in another relationship. And I would HATE whoever it was with....because I wouldn't want some other woman fancying herself to be ANY kind of mother to MY babies, "step" or otherwise.

 

So yeah, I felt trapped. But the "trap" is what kept me from f*cking up my home-deal long enough for my perspective to come back. There was no fantasy bubble for me to hide in.

 

She believes that the kids will be hurt more by noticing the parents aren't having a romantic loving relationship than by a divorce. I told her I totally disagree and that the kids would be fine as long as we were polite to each other and didn't fight, but that they would be badly hurt by a divorce.

 

Does she really think that YOU wouldn't move on? Does she think that you'd never remarry? Never bring in another romantic relationship to model for the children?

 

Love is a CHOICE. This woman is making a choice NOT to love you right now. Love isn't a hole in the ground that you "fall" into. She chooses not to model a loving relationship for the children. And she'd be more than glad to tell you that "she can't help how she feels", but you know what? Yeah...she can. It's called self-control and making choices. This is no different from the other NON-CHOICES she's making about her life. Life is just "happening" to her, and she doesn't have any say in it. Poor lamb.

 

I think my advice to you today DesperateDad, is to start poking some holes in the fantasy bubble. Bear in mind that she WANTS to fight, so don't let her drag you in. I think what you want is more of a hit and run maneuver, where you can calmly get a point in without 'engaging' her in conflict. You don't need her to agree with it, or regurgitate it back to you...you just need to deposit it into her brain so she can mull it over and walk away. Your tone should be conversational, as if you just thought up your comment and allowed it to roll off your tongue.

 

So, when she says to you, " the kids will be hurt more by noticing the parents aren't having a romantic loving relationship than by a divorce", you tell her, "Honey, that's a choice that YOU are making. My choice is to love my wife, and I remake that choice EVERY day."

 

And when she says to you, "Everyone else thinks they know what's best for me, but no one cares what I want." You tell her, "No one's keeping you prisoner here. If you want to leave....it's not my preference but I can't stop you. I don't have any interest in making your life miserable. You're free to make your own choices, just not free to make MINE."

 

She'll want to know what you mean by that, and she'll take an immediate snarky tone.

 

So, you tell her straight up, "Look, I'm not trying to start anything. But you've made me aware that you feel controlled, and all I'm saying is that I recognize you feel that way. I'm just doing my best to assure you it's not the case. Your choices are yours...same as mine are mine."

 

Then go mow the lawn or fold the laundry or whatever it is that you do around the house.

 

She might try to follow you and escalate. Call her on it. "I think you're trying to pick a fight with me, and I'm not sure why. But I'm not interested in arguing with you. If you want to talk, that's fine....but I'm not going to participate in any heated discussions today." Then go do your thing and let her stew on it.

 

"My choices are MINE" will be perceived as a veiled threat. But it's not. It's the truth. If your WW chooses to encourage an inappropriate relationship with the neighbor, that's her choice....but it's going to have a consequence in the fact that the next choice is YOURS. If she chooses to move out. Again, her choice....and again, the next choice is YOURS. And if she chooses to continue on without any effort given to repair the marriage, eventually that non-choice will become a choice...and the next one is YOURS.

 

You can drop this information off on her in the form of little bombs, where you 'hit and run', saying something soothing and including a hard kernal of truth hidden in the candy-coated shell.

 

I have to be frank with you. I'd give her another few weeks of Plan A and poking holes in her fantasy bubble with the 'hit and run' maneuver. Then I'd give some consideration to Plan B. You'll need to engage an attorney to legalize separation, and I'd do my best to stay in possession of the home and in primary care of the children. If she won't move out, I'd sue for divorce outright.

 

In the meantime, start MC without her. Certainly, invite her, but if she says no....let her stew at home wondering what you're saying about her. You can call your health insurance plan to find out if you have benefits, and to get a list of preferred providers.

 

At least people are starting to ask questions about her relationship with this guy or why he isn't around as much as he used to be. She's finding that she has to lie to everyone and it's pissing her off. She blames me for that. Can you believe it?

 

Yeah....I can.

 

When you get ready for Plan B....consider full-blown, scorch-the-earth exposure. She'll go off like a ballistic missile, but at that point the gloves are off, and the ENTIRE CONTENTS of your 'bucket of consequences' needs to be poured over her head.

 

So, while you're doing your Plan A, I think it's good to start preparing your Plan B in advance.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks, dgiirl. We talked again this morning. The first thing she said to me was that she was sorry for the mean things she said last night. She continues to get upset, though, when I don't agree that we should get a divorce.

 

She goes back and forth and contradicts herself pretty often on what she feels or thinks. One minute she doesn't need anybody in her life, next she needs to have romantic love. She's on far more of a rollercoaster than I am right now.

 

I do get pretty down about things, but I'm trying not to let anything bother me. I don't want to live like that anymore. It's definately a lot of effort for me and I'll have to see how long I can do this.

[DesperateDad]

Wow, LJ! You are blowing me away. I can't believe you know so much about this stuff. Everything you've said is right on the money. I have carefully considered the advice you and others have given me and I've put into play what I can of it.

 

Last night, I did mention to her that divorce was not going to be easy and that I wasn't going to make it easy on her. I told her it would be a long, drawn-out, expensive and painful process. I could almost hear a bubble popping.

 

She is well aware that our families and most friends will be very upset and most likely blame her. I'm quite willing to live up to my own affair, even though that will hurt my standings in their eyes. But, it won't look that different from what she's doing/done from everyone else's perspective.

 

I admitted to kissing another woman and falling in 'love' with her for a few weeks. We talked quite a bit, but just for a few weeks. This thing with this guy has gone on for almost a year now and I did catch them together in each others arms once. If I have to own up so that everyone knows both sides, that's fine.

 

I'm also willing to let the past go and move on. She knows that I'm always open to reconciliation. I've gotten the number of a counselor recommended by the priest who married us and I intend to give him a call. I'll go by myself if I have to.

 

I do think some of the bubble is starting to burst. We talked about money today and she initially put the entire blame on me for our financial troubles. She blames me for never making enough, but I reminded her that we got those bills together. I also told her that what we make is what we make, period, and we have to stay within that budget.

 

I also said that I have had a big problem with not having any control over the money and she agreed to give me full control over the finances. I'm not sure how to take this, but I agreed. I really do have to have control over my finances to feel secure. I was always great with money until we got married. Since then it's all been downhill financially, no matter how much I've made (and I've almost tripled the salary I was making when we were dating!).

 

I don't think I would have much chance of being about to keep the house and kids. The topic has already come up during the course of one of those "I can't be who I am" discussions. I did suggest that she just go if she had to, but she said she would never leave the kids and would fight for them. She even said she would take the kids and go if I just HAD to have the house. I told her that I'm not leaving and she said she wasn't asking me to (WTF?).

 

This is really confusing. She's talked about being overwhelmed a lot lately and I know how that is. She and I have talked for years about how life is about choices and she knows and believes it. I know she still has doubts, otherwise she would have just filed for divorce as soon as she got the money to do it. She also said she's afraid of what I'll tell the kids. That is, that she stopped loving me and wanted me to go and that they'll think she's bad for that. Hmmm. I told her I'm not going to lie to them.

 

She called me twice after I left to talk about things and to try to make me understand. She's terribly afraid of becoming like her mother who is still married to her father, but often bitter and hateful and very negative. I told my W that it wasn't because they stayed married, but because of her always choosing to see things in a negative light. Again, choices.

 

I'm exhausted today after staying up talking until after 1am and then getting up around six today after a restless night. Your advice is really helpful to me. I'll keep up with Plan A for a few more weeks and consider Plan B. I DO think it's meaningful that I've seen some cracks after just a week or so of Plan A. I'm still hoping.

 

One last question for you, LadyJane: Can I ask how long it took you to get over the whole midlife thing? I'm wanting to get some idea of how long this can take. My W is 37 and claims to have been feeling like this for more than two years already. I know that having 5 kids under six years old affects things, too. So, will she get over this in a few months, years?

[Ladyjane14]

I was just leaving you another message. Thought I'd got lost at the page-turn.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks, LJ. I just read it and replied at the same time as your last post.

[Ladyjane14]

One last question for you, LadyJane: Can I ask how long it took you to get over the whole midlife thing? I'm wanting to get some idea of how long this can take. My W is 37 and claims to have been feeling like this for more than two years already. I know that having 5 kids under six years old affects things, too. So, will she get over this in a few months, years?

 

Hmmm... let's see if I can remember.

 

We had an interstate move due to my husband's job, just around the time I was your wife's age. We moved someplace where we hardly knew a soul, so I had to set up family life in a new house which was quite a distraction from my angst.

 

Also, my kids were in school by then...so I had a bit more personal time to consider opportunities just for ME. I did some volunteering at school and started substitute teaching. These things helped me feel like I had another hat to wear that wasn't being somebody's wife or somebody's mother. I started to feel alot more rounded as an individual, and by the time I was 40 I was feeling HUMAN again.