Did I do the right thing???

[amber26]

Hi, My name is amber and I am new to this site. I am in a situation and I put myself there. I am wanting to know if I did the right thing and where to go from here. This is my story...

I am married and my husband works out of town alot. After one of these weeks he was gone I found something he had wrote about going to a club and almost having sex with one of the dancers. Saying he chickened out. He has been back to the club several times since then. I confronted him and told him I knew about the club and wanted to talk about it... Deny... Deny... Deny.... Is what he did then he refused to talk about it and was mad at me instead for finding the evidance. Well now it is over a year later and since we have the internet he has always gone to porn sites and things like that. I thought nothing of it because he always has enjoyed the mags and movies. Anyways I noticed whenever I would walk into the room he would click out of sites really quick or minimize them. After looking on our computers history I relized he had also been going to websites like adultfriendfinder and other online dating sites. I downloaded a trail version of a keylogger and soon had all his passwords to those sites including an email address he had set up. I logged into his email account and then into the dating websites. He is listed as being in a relationship so seeing what would happen. I set up my own email address and registered under another name with the dating sites. I sent him emails with no reply. I found that women can ususally join the sites for free but men have to pay. Knowing he would never do this because I would see the charges on our bank statement I emailed him directly and made it look like it was coming from one of the adult sites. For over 2 months now I have been having an ongoing online affair with my own husband. He has wrote dirty stories to me and told me of things he would like to do to me(as the cyber girl) and also told me of a couple of times he has cheated and what happened. In order to get him to tell me these things I had to write a couple of made up experiances of my own. After a few weeks he said he wanted to meet. I (as the cyber girl) told him I was not ready for that and we were having fun so why fix what is not broken. The cyber girl is set to live in another city that he works in often so me going to catch him meeting up with noone in this other town is not would not be easy. He has still been emailing me and I have been asking alot of questions but I don't know how to ask him things without him catching on. During one of the IM sessions he was having with cyber girl I asked him what he would do if he ever got caught and he said DENY DENY DENY. He said nothing had happened for real yet so there was no way anyone could get upset about it. I asked him if his girl did this to him would he be upset and he said yes. Why is it ok for him?? Was I wrong to start emailing him?? Was I wrong to track his internet activities?? What do I do now with the little bit of info I have??? I really need some help with this one.

[catgirl1927]

What's wrong in a situation like this is really hard to say. You now have definite proof that he's cheating on you. He lied to you, you did what you had to do to find out.

 

What's really important is what you do with the information. I think it would be cool to set up a meeting with him, thinking you're the cyber girl, and catch him like that. But that would be very emotional for you. Probably just print out everything you have, give it to him and tell him to leave. He obviously has no respect or love for you. You're not losing anything because your marriage is a lie. You have plenty of time, you're young and deserve SO much better than this. SO much better.

 

I'm so sorry this happened. This site is really good for support. There are a lot of betrayed spouses on here.

[tikigods]

I like Catgirls advice, print out all the info that you have, any conversation you might have kept, and then one day hand it to him in a bundle and tell him that you were the girl and its time for him to make other living arrgments and go see a lawyer about divorce.

 

This man has no respect or love for you, and if you keep it up its only going to get worse.

 

goodluck to you :/

[Trimmer]

You know, usually I would be against adding any more deception to a situation that is already somewhat twisted, but you might want to consider that at this point, he has put himself in a position that is somewhat "deniable" in the sense that he could claim that everything he has said online is an anonymous fantasy and he has never stepped out from behind the computer. Even the fact that he "admitted" to things behind his anonymous identity. I'm not saying I believe this for a minute, and I think he's a sleaze, but if you really want to have him, hands down, then setting up the meeting would clinch it. Once he steps out from behind the computer, takes action to have a face-to-face meeting, and walks in and looks you in the eye, he has no more deniability.

 

Regardless, I think that given his behavior to date, you are justified in calling him on it now and leaving him in the dust. I just wanted to remind you that a cheater will take any opportunity to deny; if there is the slimmest possibility of crafting a story that explains things in his mind - no matter how implausible - if it's his only option, then he will jump on that like the last lifeline available to a drowning man...

 

Back to one of your original questions, though:

What do I do now with the little bit of info I have???

 

This depends on what you want to happen in the bigger picture of your marriage. You're thinking from the inside-out, "I have this information, what do I do with it?" I think you should first figure it out from the outside in - "what do I want to do with this marriage" and that may help guide your next steps, including what to do with the information.

 

Is this a deal-breaker for you? Do you just want out? If so, then collect as much information as you can, and get to a lawyer first - before revealing anything to your husband - to find out how to best protect your interests as you leave.

 

Would you want to heal the relationship if you could? Do you believe that is even a possibility? That may be trickier, so in this case you may not want to be so slash-and-burn. Collect information up to a point where he can't deny it any more - maybe set up that meeting, and then invite him to sit down, and lay down the law: If he wants to stay married to you, here's what he has to do, including marriage counseling, etc... Prepare yourself going in, and be firm, calm and confident - maybe even see a lawyer before this meeting, so you can explain to your husband how a divorce would work if it ends up that way.

 

Don't plead or beg or anything - I'm not usually one for power plays within a relationship, but he needs a whack in the head here (figuratively, please!) and I think you should go in feeling strong and don't ask for what you want - carefully tell him what he needs to do to start making this right. Don't let him turn the situation around on you.

[amber26]

Thank you all for your great advice. You are right. I do not know if I want out or want to work on it. We have children involved in this but I do not believe in staying in a marriage just for the kids. It will only make them suffer. For now I am just going to keep the online relationship going and maybe set a meeting up for our hometown so that I do not have to travel to get to it. Thanks again. I have alot of thinking to do.

[zarathustra]

Thank you all for your great advice. You are right. I do not know if I want out or want to work on it. We have children involved in this but I do not believe in staying in a marriage just for the kids. It will only make them suffer. For now I am just going to keep the online relationship going and maybe set a meeting up for our hometown so that I do not have to travel to get to it. Thanks again. I have alot of thinking to do.

 

Wow, you are one smart lady!!! I'm really impressed! I wouldn't be ashamed if I were you (though I'm sure I wouldn't want to be in his shoes!!). If he's given you cause for suspicion, then likely he's doing all this stuff. Now you have all the proof you need.

 

When I read your initial post, its seems that he was quite smug about denying anything to you about an affair if one was to take place and he seemed quite nonchalant about the other affairs that he's had in the past.

 

You deserve more than he's giving you. I hope that you will find happiness and peace when this whole thing blows over.

[amber26]

Yes it is all easier said then done right. I still have to get up the courage to actually do it. He even wants the cyber girl to call him at his hotel. (as she is working!!) and have phone sex with him. If only I could find something to change my voice I would call him up and see what happens.

[Trimmer]

I just looked back over and remember that you said that he told cyber girl that he had cheated a couple of times. Do you believe this to be true, and have you been able to get any independent evidence of any of those incidents? Something that would prevent him from being able to say "I just made it all up, it was a fantasy, nothing happened for real..." Has he revealed any other factual information that reduce his anonymity - his name, a telephone nubmer, where he works, where he stays when he's in her town, etc?

 

How far is cyber girl's town (and his out-of-town work place) from your home?

 

Have you considered seeing a lawyer, just to educate yourself about your options? The more you know, the more control you will have and the more confident you will feel, and frankly, at some point, being able to reveal that you have already seen a lawyer is potentially a bargaining chip, although perhaps one to be used very carefully...

[jonesgirly]

Amber

 

I want to say "bravo" to you for having the intelligence and emotional calmness to manage the rather hurtful (for you) investigation of your husband. Rarely do people caught in the midst of such hurtful revelations understand that confronting too early results in continued denials.

 

The ARROGANCE of a person........to look you in the eye and "deny" what they KNOW they've been doing..........how disrespectful. And then to NOT STOP IT.........how utterly disrespectful.

 

I think you're wise to find out and "know" exactly who you're dealing with. I admire your clever detective work, and applaud your ability to carry it out without a hitch. I can't wait to hear what you discover next!

 

The advice you've been given is solid. Consult with an attorney (usually free), gather important financial information (taxes, property records, anything!), and walk with your head held up high - you deserve a better person than one who would deliberately seek out "extracurricular" activities online.

 

Bravo.

[amber26]

So far everything he has told me online has been true. I have not exactly asked him what company he works for but he told the truth as to what he does for a living. He has even givin me the hotel he is staying at now and the room number so cyber girl can call him. Of course I said that she was at work and can not make sexy phone calls. He asked her to use her cell and once again she said she was to nervous to call. I have checked into getting a voice changer so that I can call him and he will not know but I don't know where to get one in my town. I have called the local joke shops as well as the adult stores and the theatrical shops. I even called on electronic shop. I have not tried the larger electronic stores like best buy or circut city yet. As to how far away the town is it is about 2 to 3 hours away. Any more advice will be welcome.

[catgirl1927]

What if you set up the call and call him as yourself? It's almost as good as catching him in person. Or, set up the call then at the last minute change your plans and tell him you're coming to the hotel. Is that practical at all? Show up at his room and tell him you want a divorce and to just STAY at the hotel. I hope you're going to contact an attorney tomorrow. My heart really goes out to you. You're very strong and brave. I just hope this is over as soon as possible so you can get on with your life, and find someone who deserves you.

[amber26]

it would not be easy for me to say i am calling and i don't want to confront him over the phone so he can hide from me. I live almost 3 hours away from the town he is working in.

[jonesgirly]

No Amber, you do not want to call him as yourself - besides, I would end up screaming "you slimy SOB" into the phone. Again, you are wise to make whatever excuses necessary to avoid a phone call.

 

If you really want to make an 'impression' and/or see how far your husband will go for this 'cyber-girllfriend', leave a message for him at the front desk. Call the Hotel, and tell them you'd like to leave a message for room XXX, or for Mr.XXX, saying "Amber says Hello, sorry she wasn't able to be braver" (or whatever)..

 

Again, I must give you ten million Kudos for going through this alone...except for the admiration of us here at LS. How hurtful it is for "us" to be living this as you are.

 

You OBVIOUSLY deserve better than this scumbag.

[jonesgirly]

Amber - I have been sitting here ADMIRING you all evening, and plotting my own strategy as if it were yours.

 

You know what my "cyber-affair" would address? I would state something like "I'm not really interested in starting a relationship with a man who is married" or "I'm not really interested in being the OW forever" - just to see what he says. If nothing more, he may state "in print" what his intentions are. God, again, I can't imagine having the strength you have - just to be able to pull this off - I'd be so emotionally exhausted, I'd wanna kill him!

 

But you are MUCH wiser............savor that knowledge and use it to your benefit - you deserve it!

[Trimmer]

Amber -

 

I recommend caution and patience - and I encourage you to continue to work out just what your goal is here. It's easy for us to sit around here and think up scenarios that would really stick it to him and give him his due, because we are identifying with your outrage, but we don't have a stake in the outcome. You do. It sounds like you are being methodical, and patient, and I encourage you to continue that while you work out your plans for the future. Make sure your plans and your vision for the future extend beyond just a big blowout on D-Day.

 

I don't mean to criticize anyone for coming up with clever ways to stick it to him - I can't help creating some interesting revenge scenarios myself - but it's like a video game for us. Once we get past that initial rush of outrage, we have to remember that whichever way you decide - stay or go - you will still have to work through the end-game with this person, and you may want to consider how the short term satisfaction of a big blow out will affect your long-term goals.

 

The reason I'm stressing this is because of the kids. I assume they are yours together, so one way or another, the two of you will be linked - as parents, even if not as husband and wife - for the next decade or two, and you owe it to them to try to create the best possible environment for them going forward.

 

As much as it might be tempting to humiliate and embarass him (I have personal experience with these feelings towards my wayward spouse in our divorce), you may also want to consider the course of just continuing to quietly gather your information until it is undeniably airtight, and then once you have decided what you want to do going forward, do it with grace and elegance. Be the bigger person.

 

Since you haven't decided yet, I don't want to push the "what if you leave" scenario, but I'll just say that whatever you decide, it will be to your advantage and your kids' if your husband is as contrite and cooperative as possible, and if you drive him to far into humiliation, it may just set a tone of anger and revenge that will carry forward. When it happens, you want him to know that you are serious, powerful, and in control of yourself; if you can do this firmly, but with grace, then you at least leave him the possibility of being some kind of "good" person on his end. If you start a fight, you'll get a fight, and no one will come out ahead.

 

I have been through my own experience of struggling to stay graceful in the face of a cheating spouse with kids involved - I'd be glad to talk. It's hard to swallow, especially at the beginning when you are justifiably pissed off, but in the long run, I'm glad with the way things have turned out in my situation.

 

I'm not saying for a minute that he deserves this. But your kids do.

[HanginLow]

Amber

I feel your pain, as difficult as this is to deal with, stay focused. All of the posts you have read above, are very useful and add some reason to your situation. What I see here is that your H has a porn addiction. A good measure of your self worth to him would be to address "out of the blue" PORN! Talk about it in private/public with him, ask him how he feels about it, let him know how many families are destroyed by it. Bring the topic up at breakfast, lunch, dinner, anywhere, ALONE with him of course and make him uncomfortable as often as possible. Once you have hammered the issue of PORN home, he may open his eyes and realize inside that he is ONE OF THEM - a porn addict. Silent psycological aspects of this addiction to the addict, when confronted by a spouse may, and often time does, have great effect. Be gentle, yet firm, don't back down - ask him to show you his emails, to open up to you about it, don't bitch at him, reason with him - he will scream and call you names, etc...; be cautious!! Try this, google porn addiction and leave it on the desk top, ask to buy a new system, clean of "any of his disgusting sites" - once you have hammered this home he may come to grips about his addiction. I had a similar situation myself, it blows, but I came full circle and have been working hard at other venues to remove myself from PORN - and I have. It can work, but you have to be a good and decent spouse about it, be a trooper and encourage him, let him know how important he is to the kids and that you are/and want to keep the family unit in tack. Good luck and God's speed. Later, HL

[amber26]

Thank you all for your support since I can't go to my friends and family with this you all have been alot of help. This is a tricky situation I have myself into. He is really wanting me to call him. I think that the idea of leaving a message was a good one. I tried it and the hotel just kept putting me into the voicemail of the room number he gave me. They prefer not to take messages for the guest directly so that they will not be misplaced. What kind of stupid hotel is it anyways!!! He wrote an email saying he is skeptic and does not know if cyber girl is who she says she is. I even sent him pics I found on the web. He still will not beleive it. I wrote him and told him that he does not want me (cyber girl) to get into trouble just because he wants to say hi and that the time will come when we will be able to talk on the phone. And once that is not enough anymore we may evintually meet someday. But to give me (cyber girl) the time I need to get over my nervousness. And that I hope he is not upset and that he will understand. I don't think he is catching on but I want to keep him in the dark on this until I am ready. I have considered contacting an attorney and I have talked to a counsler about marriage counsling but at this stage I am still very confused on what I want to do. Beleive it or not even though I know all the things I know. I still love him and want to help him but then again I am so mad at him I could hit him over the head with a frying pan.... (I won't promise). I have been acting like everything is just fine at home but when I am alone (not very often) I cry alot and I will tell you this... Having a cheating husband puts u on one hell of a diet.. Well I will keep everyone updated on what is going on. So please respond with any more suggestions on what I should do. Or just to say u understand. It really helps knowing I am not the only one going thru a cyber affair.

[whichwayisup]

I commend your strength right now.

 

Do what you have to do, but man, to be honest, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when he gets busted and realizes what's going on.

 

But, on that note, as much as you'd love to 'get him' by following through on this plan (brillant, btw!) I just wonder what affect it will have on your kids later in the future if this blows up and gets really bad.

 

Definately talk to a lawyer and your counsellor. Hang in there and keep posting too.

[Trimmer]

Amber -

 

I normally weigh in around 165, but in 2 separate experiences (unfortunately, with the same wife...) I've found that for me, the "infidelity diet" knocks off 10-15 lbs... Make sure you take care of yourself physically - eat smart, even if you are eating less, and get good sleep, fresh air, exercise. The theme here is stay whole, and stay strong. If you feel physically "down" then it will be that much harder to do.

 

The other thing you might be able to do to slow him down and cool him off a little bit is to send an email saying something along the lines of: "Hey up to now, we could pretend this was just a little anonymous online fantasy, but once we meet or even talk on the phone, it becomes real, and I need to be ready for that, so please give me a little more time." Or put it in the way cyber-girl would say it, anyway... This may cool him off and make him think, or it may make him come right out and say "I want it to be real, let's go" - either way it may give you some more insight into his intentions...

 

Go see the lawyer - this doesn't commit you to any course of action, but educating yourself about the specifics of your state can only help you and give you more confidence. You may be able to find one who will give a free or cheap first consultation. Also, about the counselor, if you start to feel the pressure, consider finding one to see individually at first. Not particularly cheap, but I'm considering mine as an investment in my future...

[EndoftheRope]

Be careful what you consider hard, undeniable proof. I think any reasonable person would consider what you have pretty conclusive, but I am learning that liars are incredibly quick and clever with explanations. I can guarantee my H would just turn this situation around and tell me he knew from the start that it was me and he was really seeing how far *I* was going with men online.

 

As to why he's on dating sites to begin with-- I caught mine very briefly on dating sites, and a year later, I'm still getting this stupid story that he did it 'for kicks,' the contradictory story that he didn't actually know what the link was he was clicking on, and, finally, at least with one site, a flat out denial that he was on it at all, even though I saw it there on my history and on the keylogger, which he now knows I had on at the time. Doesn't matter. He'll just shake his head in feigned innocence and say, "I don't know, but it wasn't me!" Right-- like my then-15 year old son really wants a 'thirtysplussingles' woman!

 

Others have already raised the point of not even bothering with evidence good enough to force him to confess. You know what you know. I guess the real question at this point is: if you give him the chance to come clean and save this marriage, will he? If not, what is your decision?

[amber26]

Update,

After the most recent online session (just a few minutes ago) he wrote a long letter saying he was confused and that he didn't know what he wanted from cyber girl. he stated that he was feeling guilty for thinking about her all the time and with that came the guilt of the things he has done in the past. He wrote that the only reason his profile was up on the dating site was because he was trying to look at sexy women online. (he was listed under 4 different dating sites... sexy women my xxx) Cyber girl said she was not sure what she wanted out of it either and using advice from above told him that she " didn't want to meet or call because then it would all be real and there was no turning back from that" She also stated that she was in a relationship and so was he and that she didn't know how his relationship was going but she wasn't sure she was ready to mess hers up. Cyber girl also asked him if he was willing to risk his girl just for a couple of nights with her (cyber girl). I will keep everyone updated on what is going on with this. Keep the advice coming ( Sorry u guys can't be a fly on the wall!!!)

[Trimmer]

Well, I think you've done the honorable thing by not goading him into it, not having cyber-girl try to encourage and entrap him. I think this will give you a more honest reading on his outlook and intentions, and again, whichever way things turn out, it will be harder for him to turn the blame around on you (he will try anyway), and ultimately easier for him to find some kind of grace in the end-game.

[amber26]

Ok after the decussion this afternoon he wrote back and he has decided that he will go as far as cyber girl will let him. If she just wants to be friends and hang out that is fine with him but if she wants more (sex) he is up for that too. He said he is not willing to leave his current relationship and anything that happens between him and cyber girl will be purely " no strings attached" That he is leaving it up to her to decide. he said he will not be getting online tonight and that she knows where he is (he gave cyber girl the hotel and rm he is staying at) if she wants to call. I can't call because he will recognize my voice and of course I can't meet him because I am 3 hours away. I wrote back and said that cyber girl had to think about it and once she makes the phone call it will not just be an online thing anymore and that it will be real so she had to think about that. I also wrote that if he was feeling guilty before that cyber girl did not want to be the cause of the guilt because she had never been with a man in a relationship before. After that I said that once we cross the line and meet and things get sexually that just hanging out will not be enough anymore and that I wanted to make sure he was ok with that and that he understood that. There is not much else I can do with this little online relationship I started with 'cyber girl' and him so now I am really confused. I guess I did not expect things to go this fast. I can only put him off for so long because I really can not come up with a good excuse not to call. What do u guys think???

[No Stress Lady]

Amber -

 

I recommend caution and patience - and I encourage you to continue to work out just what your goal is here. It's easy for us to sit around here and think up scenarios that would really stick it to him and give him his due, because we are identifying with your outrage, but we don't have a stake in the outcome. You do. It sounds like you are being methodical, and patient, and I encourage you to continue that while you work out your plans for the future. Make sure your plans and your vision for the future extend beyond just a big blowout on D-Day.

 

I don't mean to criticize anyone for coming up with clever ways to stick it to him - I can't help creating some interesting revenge scenarios myself - but it's like a video game for us. Once we get past that initial rush of outrage, we have to remember that whichever way you decide - stay or go - you will still have to work through the end-game with this person, and you may want to consider how the short term satisfaction of a big blow out will affect your long-term goals.

 

The reason I'm stressing this is because of the kids. I assume they are yours together, so one way or another, the two of you will be linked - as parents, even if not as husband and wife - for the next decade or two, and you owe it to them to try to create the best possible environment for them going forward.

 

As much as it might be tempting to humiliate and embarass him (I have personal experience with these feelings towards my wayward spouse in our divorce), you may also want to consider the course of just continuing to quietly gather your information until it is undeniably airtight, and then once you have decided what you want to do going forward, do it with grace and elegance. Be the bigger person.

 

Since you haven't decided yet, I don't want to push the "what if you leave" scenario, but I'll just say that whatever you decide, it will be to your advantage and your kids' if your husband is as contrite and cooperative as possible, and if you drive him to far into humiliation, it may just set a tone of anger and revenge that will carry forward. When it happens, you want him to know that you are serious, powerful, and in control of yourself; if you can do this firmly, but with grace, then you at least leave him the possibility of being some kind of "good" person on his end. If you start a fight, you'll get a fight, and no one will come out ahead.

 

I have been through my own experience of struggling to stay graceful in the face of a cheating spouse with kids involved - I'd be glad to talk. It's hard to swallow, especially at the beginning when you are justifiably pissed off, but in the long run, I'm glad with the way things have turned out in my situation.

 

I'm not saying for a minute that he deserves this. But your kids do.

 

 

Great post!

 

Amber, good luck whatever you do - I would keep collating the evidence (in case you decide to divorce) but be very careful if you set up a face to face meeting - he might flip out when he realises he's been busted - if you do decide to do this maybe have a friend with you and make sure you are in a public place.

[amber26]

I have talked him out of cyber girl phoning him for now he is letting her call the shots and says when she is ready to call or meet just to let him know. I have decided that I am going to keep emailing him over the next couple of weeks and then set up a meeting in my hometown so that he can finally meet his cyber girl. I will keep u all posted on what happens.