Adunaphel Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I think that probably many people who would want to see adultery as a criminal offense have some personal experience with it and are looking for revenge. You are probably very true. Plain, human desire for revenge. I admit that I'd like that the BS could get some kind of "revenge" with the blessing of the law. Somemate, excellent points. Also, a definition of adultery would be in order. Sex with a different person than your partner and yourself would be adultery. What about oral sex? masturbation? kissing? emotional affairs? spending too much time with a member of the opposite sex? What about Swingers? And those couples that for whatever reasons are okay with their partners having "affairs"? You can't just "pin" what is adultery and what is not.
Curmudgeon Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 As one who works in politics, I can say with some conviction, you can't legislate morality.
westernxer Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 you can't legislate morality. Definitely. Besides, if we did, it would hurt women more than men.
Outcast Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 You know what worked better? When society frowned on adultery. When if you confessed adultery to your friends or to an online message board, you'd not be met with sympathy and encouragement, but rather with disapproval. When the star of the movie maybe felt like having an affair or began one but then suffered from conscience and ended it. Why is the end of Casablanca loved so much? Is it not because the wife does the noble thing after all - with the blessing and encouragement of her lover? And why should adultery be considered wrong? Not out of some lamebutt desire to have a 'rules is rules' attitude but because adultery HURTS people. Society has gotten too damn blithe about people doing physical and emotional damage to each other - it's big box-office We've made inhumanity into entertainment. How many people loved Seinfeld - one of the meanest shows ever? The authors tried, at the end, to make the point that you weren't supposed to love those people and what they did but it was too late - now South Park is considered a laugh riot. You probably can't put the genie back in the bottle but it would be awful nice, IMHO, if people started to care again about being decent humans and avoiding doing damage of all sorts to their fellow-humans. The 'my desires first' mentality started in the 70s and, unlike other trends, didn't suffer a backlash. It's now the philosophy of choice - you see it here all the time. The Big Cat's right; you can't legislate morality. But attitudes can be changed. It just takes an effort of will.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 As one who works in politics, I can say with some conviction, you can't legislate morality. True. But you can uphold a binding contract. And I sincerely believe that the 'Marriage Contract' should be as viable in a court of civil law as the terms of a 'Prenuptual Agreement' or a 'Divorce Decree'. In the olden days, all the details and expectations were ironed out ahead of the actual marriage. It was more of a legal domestic partnership. We don't do that today....but if you ask me, we really ought to. ________________________________________ As far as giving people HIV and not being held criminally accountable for it.... We're not talking about accidental exposure, like giving someone SARS because you happened to be breathing. Cheating on your partner is a premeditated action. For a person who believes that they are practicing safe sex with a monogamous partner, cheating removes the right to decide what level of exposure they're willing to risk. It ought to be punishable by law. If it were up to me, I'd say that in order to establish monogamy within the practice of safe sex....there should be a contractual committment with both parties able to submit proof of health at the time of contract. Then...heck yeah...prosecute cheaters to the fullest degree of the law. It doesn't make sense that you can bounce a check for less than $10. and possibly do 11/29 in the county jail dependant on whatever your criminal status is. But if you give someone herpes for the rest of their natural life, you're not liable for any prosecution. When the justice system fails....the only other option for the wounded is to resort to the methods of a vigilante. So, if someone gives you AIDS and the court system fails to address it, are you letting them walk away scot-free to keep spreading it around?
westernxer Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Not sure how you come to that conclusion. History books. Literature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#Penalties_for_adultery (see third paragraph)
burning 4 revenge Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Definitely. Besides, if we did, it would hurt women more than men. I think women engage in adultery more than men
tinktronik Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I think you're wrong. Agreed with you here C < I think its at least equal.
Pyro Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Just thinking - since adultery exposes the betrayed spouse to STDs, some of which can be fatal and all of which are damaging; and since it's in explicit breach of a written contract; and since it causes immense psychological pain and trauma. It seems a pretty harmful and clearly ill-intentioned, selfish behaviour. Also the social consequences on families, children etc need to be considered. IMO it's a lot more harmful than a lot of things which are illegal. Isn't there a pretty good argument for making it illegal again? I would love adultery to be illegal. I just don't see it happening. Everyone has there own version of what they consider cheating to be.
Pink_Tulip Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I have a real serious issue with allowing the governemnt so much control over peoples personal lives. What consenting adults do doesn't need to be controlled by the government, IMO. Aside from that, everyone has seen the marriage threads and has a pretty good idea why most people cheat. So when a wife says to her husband, 'you know, I am done with this whole sex thing. Just not into it anymore. So here is some lotion, good luck.' And the H goes years without sex, we should then criminalize him when he eventually goes out and fulfills the needs his wife won't? And if a H says to his wife, 'you know, internet porn is a lot more fulfilling to me than talking to you. So go join a womens group or whatever you want, just don't come to me with your issues anymore. But be naked 2-3 times a week for sex.' We should criminalize her when she finds an outlet for her needs? Please. Yes there are people who cheat simply b/c they can, regardless of how their spouse treats them. They are nasty people with no integrity. But it really scares me to start getting the government involved in personal matters. I'd rather not live in Afghanistan.
burning 4 revenge Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I think you're wrong. It's possible I am wrong ,but it seems women would have more opportunity. Women are more selective than men when it comes to sex. At least it appears that way to me. If that sounds paradoxical, the consequence of that is men are much more aggressive in seeking women, and so women have more opportunities thrown in their face.
alphamale Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 IMO it's a lot more harmful than a lot of things which are illegal. Isn't there a pretty good argument for making it illegal again? All is fair in Love and War, M_T . Why not make marriage illegal also, thats what causes a lot of adultery to being with.
Grinning Maniac Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Actually you can legislate morality. It's a terrible thing, but it's been done. Case in point, the War On Drugs. If that's not (warped) morality legislation at work, I don't know what is. I can drink myself into a blackout and that's perfectly acceptable, but if I dare smoke a joint, despite that being infinately less harmful to myself and those around me, I've suddenly become a criminal and a drug addict; and I will be thrown into prison where it is almost a certainty that I will be beaten, violently raped, and possibly murdered. God Bless America.
Curmudgeon Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 And it's failed so the attempted moral legislation is a bust, right? Look at the laws regarding murder, theft, assault, rape and abuse, you name it. Are they legislating morality vis-a-vis the 10 Commandments or are they legislating something else such as societal norms. This can open an entire other can of worms, can't it?
Curmudgeon Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Is it possible that you have a dim view of women? Your posts seem to suggest that.
burning 4 revenge Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Actually you can legislate morality. It's a terrible thing, but it's been done. Case in point, the War On Drugs. If that's not (warped) morality legislation at work, I don't know what is. I can drink myself into a blackout and that's perfectly acceptable, but if I dare smoke a joint, despite that being infinately less harmful to myself and those around me, I've suddenly become a criminal and a drug addict; and I will be thrown into prison where it is almost a certainty that I will be beaten, violently raped, and possibly murdered. God Bless America. So does the joint explain your grin?
Outcast Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 As one of the best people I know asked me recently, 'what does it say about humanity that you have to make laws against killing people'. It's a shame that people don't just have a natural aversion to doing harm to each other.
RecordProducer Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 OK, seriously, I wouldn't want my husband to be faithful to me BECAUSE the law says so; I'd like it to be HIS voluntarily decision to not cheat. In case of murder or rape - yes, if someone is thinking about killing or raping me and the law stops him - I'd be grateful for the existence of the legal system. But in case of infidelity, if he wants to cheat - I actually want him to cheat and hopefully I will find out and dump him. I don't need him to pay the government for cheating on ME.
RecordProducer Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 All is fair in Love and War, M_T . Why not make marriage illegal also, thats what causes a lot of adultery to being with.Hahahah! Also, what is adultery? sex? So kisses and petting wouldn't be punished? Why do you need a law to staright these things out? Isn't that humiliating? Like your spouse MUST cheat on you so let's get the law to prevent him from it!
Citizen Erased Posted April 24, 2006 Posted April 24, 2006 So there is the War on Drugs, War on Terror etc etc.... War on Penis?
Curmudgeon Posted April 24, 2006 Posted April 24, 2006 HEY! Leave my penis out of this. It's fine just the way it is! Sheeeeesh!
Author mental_traveller Posted April 30, 2006 Author Posted April 30, 2006 Ok - so if a spouse cheats, and transmits HIV to their marriage partner, that shouldn't be punished? The law gets involved in wife-beating, why not wife-infecting (or husband infecting). The mere fact that someone transmits HIV after having acquired the illness from an extra-marital partner doesn't per se rise to the level of a criminal offense in my opinion. A man travels to an area of known SARS activity such as China; he then picks up SARS and transmits it to his wife upon his return. Should we criminalize that, too? But going to China is not breaking a contractual and moral obligation, agreed between two people. Travelling to China does not, per se, constitute immoral activity. When two people marry, there is no expectation that the other partner will not travel to China. When two people marry, it's clear there's a moral obligation not to screw around (unless you agree an open marriage from the start). That's the difference - it's breaking a promise. SO yeah, if someone says to me "No I didn't go to China, you can kiss me", then it turns out they did and got infected - well they should be sued, for lying to me and therefore knowingly exposing me to danger. They lied and put me at risk - that's a crime.
Author mental_traveller Posted April 30, 2006 Author Posted April 30, 2006 I think it would be pretty depressing to spend your life wondering whether a partner was only being faithful to you because he was afraid of getting into trouble with the law if he slept with anyone else. I know it hurts a lot to be cheated on, but can anyone seriously envisage being able to demand fidelity from a loved one "or I'll call the police..." ? Lol. It would be depressing to spend your life wondering whether a partner was only refraining from murdering you because he/she was afraid of getting into trouble with the law. I know it hurts a lot to be murdered, but can anyone seriously envisage being able to demand a loved one not murder you "or I'll call the police..."? This is a silly argument IMO.
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