mental_traveller Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Just thinking - since adultery exposes the betrayed spouse to STDs, some of which can be fatal and all of which are damaging; and since it's in explicit breach of a written contract; and since it causes immense psychological pain and trauma. It seems a pretty harmful and clearly ill-intentioned, selfish behaviour. Also the social consequences on families, children etc need to be considered. IMO it's a lot more harmful than a lot of things which are illegal. Isn't there a pretty good argument for making it illegal again?
Craig Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 If adultery were made illegal what would the punishment be? I assume you are talking about making it a criminal offense.
RecordProducer Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Isn't there a pretty good argument for making it illegal again? You mean like in the Arabic countries, but use it for men also? What about if you're not married to the lover? The result will be - no one will get married or people will simply break the law as they always have! We have enough illegal things waiting to be solved, such as white slavery, drugs, and sexual/physical abuse.
tinktronik Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 If adultery were made illegal what would the punishment be? I assume you are talking about making it a criminal offense. I'm curious about this also Craig.
RecordProducer Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 If adultery were made illegal what would the punishment be? I assume you are talking about making it a criminal offense. Death sentence, of course!
amerikajin Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Actually, adultery is illegal under civil law in most jurisdictions. You can be sued for adultery or a lesser known offense referred to as 'alienation of affection, if you are the third party in an adulterous relationship. The question you're asking is, should we criminalize adultery, and the answer is no. A tempting idea, but it's a bit extreme. In priniciple, I generally don't like the idea of being involved in a private affair such as marriage.
RecordProducer Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Also, how can you prove that someone has cheated? Will you have cops following people around every time a jealous spouse reports them? Geez, I can already imagine the government's budget growing fast from people paying for their sweet crimes! (Shhhh... don't give 'em any nasty ideas! )
Author mental_traveller Posted April 23, 2006 Author Posted April 23, 2006 You mean like in the Arabic countries, but use it for men also? What about if you're not married to the lover? The result will be - no one will get married or people will simply break the law as they always have! We have enough illegal things waiting to be solved, such as white slavery, drugs, and sexual/physical abuse. I wouldn't use most arabic countries as models for a penal code. But yeah it would be men and women affected equally. You can't commit adultery if you're not married. People will still get married to have kids & raise families. People will break the law yes; but people break the law on murder, assault, theft etc too - does that mean they should be legalised? Slavery, drugs, and sexual physical abuse are all crimes already. The law exists to deal with them. There is no law to deal with the harm caused by adultery.
Author mental_traveller Posted April 23, 2006 Author Posted April 23, 2006 If adultery were made illegal what would the punishment be? I assume you are talking about making it a criminal offense. Depends, it could just be a civil offence. I'd say the "punishment fits the crime" model should be used. So if you transmit a serious STD to your wife/husband then it would seem a more serious punishment is justified. Otherwise just confiscating some or all of your share of assets in divorce proceedings and/or a fine I guess would be appropriate.
Author mental_traveller Posted April 23, 2006 Author Posted April 23, 2006 Also, how can you prove that someone has cheated? Will you have cops following people around every time a jealous spouse reports them? Geez, I can already imagine the government's budget growing fast from people paying for their sweet crimes! (Shhhh... don't give 'em any nasty ideas! ) Same as you would prove anything other crime - by evidence and a trial. If hubby comes home with syphillis one day, chances are he didn't catch it jogging in the park. If wifey gets knocked up by another guy, chances are it's not the 2nd immaculate conception.
Author mental_traveller Posted April 23, 2006 Author Posted April 23, 2006 Actually, adultery is illegal under civil law in most jurisdictions. You can be sued for adultery or a lesser known offense referred to as 'alienation of affection, if you are the third party in an adulterous relationship. The question you're asking is, should we criminalize adultery, and the answer is no. A tempting idea, but it's a bit extreme. In priniciple, I generally don't like the idea of being involved in a private affair such as marriage. Ok - so if a spouse cheats, and transmits HIV to their marriage partner, that shouldn't be punished? The law gets involved in wife-beating, why not wife-infecting (or husband infecting).
amerikajin Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Ok - so if a spouse cheats, and transmits HIV to their marriage partner, that shouldn't be punished? The law gets involved in wife-beating, why not wife-infecting (or husband infecting). The mere fact that someone transmits HIV after having acquired the illness from an extra-marital partner doesn't per se rise to the level of a criminal offense in my opinion. A man travels to an area of known SARS activity such as China; he then picks up SARS and transmits it to his wife upon his return. Should we criminalize that, too? I don't think you can criminalize disease transmission simply because it emanates from an illicit relationship. You may not like how someone picked up the disease but that shouldn't necessarily make unintentional transmission a criminal offense. Now, in cases where someone has reason to suspect strongly that they've been exposed to HIV, such as in cases where someone has had unprotected sex with a commercial sex worker? Yes, I think that's gross negligence, and already, some jurisdictions are beginning to take action, I believe - as they should.
lindya Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Actually, adultery is illegal under civil law in most jurisdictions. You can be sued for adultery or a lesser known offense referred to as 'alienation of affection, if you are the third party in an adulterous relationship. Also, civil law already recognises adultery as being a breach of the marital contract....hence the number of people using it as a reason to divorce someone they're only too glad to get rid of. As an aside, in my jurisdiction at least, there is an archaic defence to an action of divorce for adultery. It's called lenocinium, and essentially relies on the party seeking the divorce having actively encouraged the adultery. In the old case generally used to demonstrate lenocinium in action (can't remember what it's called, and can't be bothered looking it up) a man wrote to his wife begging her to give him a reason for a divorce. She had it away with another man, then used the letter from her husband in her defence to his subsequent divorce action.
Adunaphel Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I would love adultery to be considered a criminal offense.
lindya Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I would love adultery to be considered a criminal offense. I think it would be pretty depressing to spend your life wondering whether a partner was only being faithful to you because he was afraid of getting into trouble with the law if he slept with anyone else. I know it hurts a lot to be cheated on, but can anyone seriously envisage being able to demand fidelity from a loved one "or I'll call the police..." ?
ddnnee Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 i think people will just stop marrying and just cohabit to avoid breaching the marriage contract - which by the way has eroded to nothing in america. Just because you say "i do" does not guarantee faithfulness. making adultry illegal will make more than half of the citizens a criminal... so why do that?
Outcast Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Well let's see. We could invent a 'groinometer' that would be implanted into each married couple as part of the ceremony. The couple's 'groinometers' would be tuned so that if they are having sex together, nothing happens, however if they have sex without the matching groinometer, an alert would go off at CIA headquarters who could then dispatch a morality squad to the location (of course the groinometers include GPS) and haul the offenders out for a public stoning in the square. Sound good to you? (Dear lord please don't let the Religious Right include some sort of lunatic tech wizard who'll put this scheme into place)
Adunaphel Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I think it would be pretty depressing to spend your life wondering whether a partner was only being faithful to you because he was afraid of getting into trouble with the law if he slept with anyone else. I know it hurts a lot to be cheated on, but can anyone seriously envisage being able to demand fidelity from a loved one "or I'll call the police..." ? No, but I think it would make it easier for betrayed partners to know what is going on behind their back. People who know about an affair and feel sorry for the betrayed partner might find it easier to report it to the police than to tell the person who has been cheated on. Also, this might sound very stupid, but I think it could help prevent those rare situations when someone cheats on their H/W once and then regrets it. Your friends might try harder to talk you into not cheating if it was illegal. Or not sleeping with someone who is married. ...but you are so right. It would be horrible to be left wondering if your SO has not cheated on you just because of the law. I wonder what is worse, being cheated on or knowing that the *only* reason why your partner would not sleep with someone else is that he'd be breaking the law.
lindya Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I wonder what is worse, being cheated on or knowing that the *only* reason why your partner would not sleep with someone else is that he'd be breaking the law. I'd say the latter. Part of that makes love and fidelity special is that people are free to choose whether they will love/be loyal to you. If you take away that choice, then you turn love (if love is defined by fidelity) into a duty rather than a source of happiness and fulfilment.
brashgal Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 People already break the law in small ways (speeding on the freeway, not reporting income on their taxes, etc) - seems to me that committing adultery would just be added to the list. They'll take the risk, hedging their bet that they won't get caught. I think punishment would have to be quite severe to deter most adulterers. In instances where a child is the result of the adultery - what happens to that child? Does the fact that the birth resulted from a crime brand them somehow? I would think the same stigma might apply as applies to children who are the result of rape or incest.
blind_otter Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Ok - so if a spouse cheats, and transmits HIV to their marriage partner, that shouldn't be punished? The law gets involved in wife-beating, why not wife-infecting (or husband infecting). The mere fact that someone transmits HIV after having acquired the illness from an extra-marital partner doesn't per se rise to the level of a criminal offense in my opinion. What? It's a punishable criminal offense to knowingly transmit HIV to anyone, whether you're married or not. To call the transmission of HIV a "mere fact" is pretty asinine, amerikajin. It's HIV. It kills you and destroys your quality of life. IMO that is not a "mere fact" -- that is criminal negligence at the very least. If an individual cheats they should at the very least have the courtesy to use a rubber if they plan on f***ing two women concurrently. On a side note it's interesting to see how many people bitch about making more people criminals who are committing nonviolent offenses, but we like spend billions of dollars to do that all the time, every year. I think it's a function of what kind of people are engaging in the behavior. If it was more common for poor folk who have no lobbyists to do it, hell let's make it illegal. If the privileged upper class engages in this -- ooo heavens to betsy, let's not rock the boat. I've had to live with people who I had to threaten with police intervention for physical abuse.
Craig Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 It would be interesting to see a civil action for "contract interference" against the OW/OM. Unlikely, but interesting.
catgirl1927 Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 There's a fine line, it's so hard to determine what the law has a business in and what it doesn't. I think that probably many people who would want to see adultery as a criminal offense have some personal experience with it and are looking for revenge. My concern would be the mingling of church and state. Not all religions view adultery the same way. We are supposed to allow everyone the freedom to practice whatever religion they choose. We do not define that as only major religions. All these folks getting together, forming cults and creating their own moral code are free to do so until they break the law. When they commit murder, we step in and stop them. But how many Mormans are marrying 14 year olds and saying it's their religion? I want them buried under the jail and only allowed out so they can be assraped in front of their whole cell block for abusing those little girls. But that's my PERSONAL feelings about it. I really don't know, I don't have an answer. I don't think it should be illegal, but I don't think I can come up with a convincing argument to support my opinion. I just have a random opinion. Adultery is grounds for divorce. I think that's enough. I would just feel that getting the government involved in that part of our personal lives is just too far. I also think that at some point adults must be responsible to whatever God they answer to for their behavior. We can't FORCE everyone to be good people, because who is going to define what's good? I don't know of a single human being with the moral capacity to set forth a moral code for the world, and I include myself in that. It's been tried several times throughout history, this govt enforcing of a moral code set forth by a person or group of people, and it's always led to war. I just think it's a slippery slope.
SoleMate Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 The idea is interesting, and it certainly has some strong arguments in favor. However, I see stronger arguments against such a law: * Marital duties are of many types, including the requirement to love, cherish and honor. If failure to meet one marital duty (sexual fidelity) is criminalized, then I suggest all should be. I see difficulties, not to mention a ballooning case load, of men and women trying to prove or disprove love or cherishing. * It is inherently inequitable to the genders, because a woman has a higher chance of being caught out, due to pregnancy. * I don't see it necessarily reducing adultery, increasing family cohesion, or providing a more secure home life for children. It could actually make many home situations worse, since now the club of false (or true) accusations of adultery can be held over the partner's head. * Same argument as one of the main reasons for "no fault" divorce laws...not that there may not have been fault, but rather that the efforts to prove it, detail it, and apportion it were further aggravating a bad situation. * The penalties would have to be severe to provide a real deterrent effect. We all have seen the potential strong pull of an outside relationship. So, I have to vote NO.
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