confusedlady Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 I am trying to understand how can a BS forgive their H after knowing that he has had an affair. If not forgive how can you believe that he will never cheat again. How could you ever trust him again? I have been the OW and I see the lies that the H has told her and she falls for it. She stills calls me wanting to know the details of our A but I refuse to give them to her. If she only knew everything she would probably never give him another chance again. She believes him that we are NC yet we work together and still see each other you would be suprised what you can do in an 8 hr workday. They have even started to go to church for support. I just don't comprehend how she can still fall for his lies. What are cheating H's telling their W's that make them feel that they are the world to them and that we the OW and the A was a big mistake. Yeah right think about it if it was a mistake why didn't he realize it before why did he have to get caught before he realized it. I want to hear from the BS side the ones that still have hope in their marriage and are trying to R their relationship. Do you really believe him when he tells you that their is NC especially if they are co-workers??? That he will never cheat again?
Blind Illusion Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Perhaps she doesn't completely believe him and that's why she does continue to call you looking for details. Trying to work something out doesn't automatically mean that you blindly believe someone. She obviously has her own reasons for continuing be it love, finances, family, religious beliefs, etc. It's very possible that none of these have to do with falling for lies. Even if she is doing that, who among us, hasn't believed someone who later turns out to be lying to us. I never did think that was just the domain of betrayed spouses, other woman, etc. You believe in this man. People sometimes will automatically assume that he is lying to you also. I am not one of those people because I do think we have different levels of honesty with different people. Still, we cannot say with complete certainty that he has never fibbed to you. The only falsehood we know for certain is that NC isn't a reality. Could be others..we don't know. Sometimes we believe because we want to. I am in agreement with your point about mistakes being realized simply because one was caught....that part would automatically disturb me. I would be left wondering if disclosure didn't happen, would you have had this revelation on your own.? I'll end this by apologizing for not being the BS you addressed in your post. I am actually an OW myself, who hasn't yet caught the MM in a lie to me. Perhaps, one day I will. That's why it's always good to look at things from all perspectives and with an open mind.
Curmudgeon Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 What does it matter? OWs are usually fed a pack of lies as well -- I'll leave the BS when: the children are all out of college; the dog has had her puppies; the grass is mowed; my 401(k) matures; I have tenure on my job, the moon turns blue; the mortgage is paid; pigs can fly; you name it. Meanwhile, they go on vacation together, there's another child, the dog runs away, the gardner misses a week, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum. How is that different?
OzGirl Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 How is that different? The difference is, generally, the OW knows the MM has a W. I'm not opening up the discussion of if that's right or not. But, essentially, the OW is aware he is with someone else. The W generally is not aware. So, it's assumed the W takes him back based on NC with the OW. And, as an ex-OW and avid follower of the stories posted in the OW/OM forum, I agree, the vast majority of MM don't do NC with the OW, but they tell their W they do. The question being, I guess then, based on the assumption the W expects him to be telling the truth after revelation time, why does she believe someone who's been exposed for being a massive liar? I agree with the original post and it's one of "those things" I don't think there is an expalanation for, maybe. The only thing the OW and the W have in common, maybe, is "wanting" to believe him, and "hoping" he's telling the truth. Is there anymore either of them can do? Well, as an OW, I realised he was lying to me after his W found out, because his kids told me he was and I believed them. How can a W do the same? She'd have to talk to the OW - who is probably the last person she wants to either talk to, or would believe anyway. But, knowing what I do now, I would speak the OW BEFORE I even bothered to give my husband the time to give his side of events at revelation time. Most OW have no reason to lie to the W, and most have evidence to support their claims. And, I must admit, also knowing what I know as an ex-OW, if a man cheated on me, he would not get a second chance. Simple as that. His words at revelation time versus his actions to that point - his actions have spoken loud and clear what he wanted and what he was prepared to risk to have it, and "being caught" as a reason to stop proves he's just one big fat idiot. Time's too precious to waste on someone "like" that.
reena Posted April 24, 2006 Posted April 24, 2006 Here are some of the lines/actions my husband used on me when I found out: -how can you do this to our kids(when I was going to leave him) -it was a mistake -I finally realise I am nothing with you and the kids -I'll never do it again -look at all we have,you only focus on the bad and I remember all the good times;we can have that again -bought flowers and tried to romance me and showered attention on me and all the time he is doing this, I am upset, confused and second guessing myself..and he feeds off it-I am made to feel to blame for his mistakes..poor him. But that is all in the past..lately, I could care less about him and don't believe a damn thing that comes out of his mouth-just biding my time till I'm outa here.
catgirl1927 Posted April 24, 2006 Posted April 24, 2006 I cannot believe that a cheater would actually say, "How can you do this to our kids?" Like the one they've been cheating on is at fault for wanting to have some self-respect. THEY are the ones who did "this" to the kids. How can they look their children in the face?
Author confusedlady Posted April 24, 2006 Author Posted April 24, 2006 Here are some of the lines/actions my husband used on me when I found out: -how can you do this to our kids(when I was going to leave him) -it was a mistake -I finally realise I am nothing with you and the kids -I'll never do it again -look at all we have,you only focus on the bad and I remember all the good times;we can have that again -bought flowers and tried to romance me and showered attention on me and all the time he is doing this, I am upset, confused and second guessing myself..and he feeds off it-I am made to feel to blame for his mistakes..poor him. But that is all in the past..lately, I could care less about him and don't believe a damn thing that comes out of his mouth-just biding my time till I'm outa here. Reena Out of curiosity why are u still with your H? What keeps a BS still with their H after they been cheated on? Don't you think that he might still be with the OW?
reena Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I know he is still with her, he is still coming up with all the same old lame excuses and his behavior has reverted right back-after trying to win me back with charm, that is. I don't plan on staying with him much longer,like I said, just biding my time. We have children, and when the school yr. is up, we are gone. what kept me with him all these yrs. was the hope that he might have really been remorseful and would show me that he did want us-and of course, family, telling me to go to marriage counseling, exhaust all those other avenues before giving up. I'm at the end of my rope though..it's time to just let go.
Author confusedlady Posted April 25, 2006 Author Posted April 25, 2006 Good luck to you Reena. It looks like you've exhausted all measures to try & fix your marriage but he's not changing. I don't think that they ever change maybe only temporarily only until the heat cools down. Me having been the OW I don't think that I could ever give my BS a second chance if he ever cheated on me especially with a co-worker or in a long term A. Either way they continue to lie and for the sake of the kids it's best to walk out one day yours will understand your reasons for leaving. Take care
serial muse Posted April 26, 2006 Posted April 26, 2006 Hey CL. I'm really not trying to pick on you, but I guess this sort of post just really confuses me. It's so compartmentalizing. I've read your other posts and I know that, though you've said you know it might not work out because of his past, basically you still want it to. And you want to believe what he's told you he's said about you, or what he tells you he feels about you. Even though you know he's got a history of cheating and lying and has been married multiple times. I just think it's so weird that you would question why the BS believes him and hangs around hoping when you're doing the exact same thing. Why is it so hard to put yourself in her shoes, instead of thinking she's some weirdo for not leaving him? I mean, you're not leaving him either, and you have proof that he's a liar. I just don't get it. Because look, I think it's perfectly understandable that everyone's human and in love and wants to believe what they want to believe, and on those grounds I can just pity everyone involved - BUT if you as the OW are going to point fingers and wonder incredulously why somebody isn't challenging him on his lies already, I seriously don't understand why would you expect it to be her rather than you? CL. You are the one with proof that he's a liar. :confused: Honestly, when I read these kinds of posts, and they do occur periodically, I can't help but wonder if it's really just wishful thinking that the W would get fed up and leave already, and therefore make the MM's decision for him. Because he isn't making it. Which is basically transferring the OW's frustration with him onto her - where, please understand, it doesn't belong. It's not her responsibility to make things easier for him. She wants things to work out with him just as much as you do, and she doesn't have the benefit of your insight into the situation. You could make the MM's decision for him too, if you wanted to. So why haven't you? And, er...why do you even want this guy, again?
target-d Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 I want to hear from the BS side the ones that still have hope in their marriage and are trying to R their relationship. Do you really believe him when he tells you that their is NC especially if they are co-workers??? That he will never cheat again? I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like you are truly interested in hearing anything from the BS in an affair. It sounds more like you are interested in wrecking havoc and creating pain for the already hurting betrayed wife, and not just the BS in your situation, but all of the BS who come to LS. It sounds from your post like the MM you had an A with chose to stay with his wife when the A was discovered. It is a fact of life that many people in committed relationships stray either emotionally or physically. It is another fact of life that many of those who stray not only do not leave but deeply regret their actions and the pain they have visited on their partner. (many also don't, but that's a different post for a different time.) CL, you sound like you are in a lot of pain, but what difference truly does it make to you whether or not a MM's wife chooses to forgive him? It's not really any of your business, is it? Even the marriage of the man you had an A with is none of your business. You may think it's your business because you formed a relationship with him, but the relationship you and he had was severed, at his choice. He could as easily have chosen to leave his wife and remained with you, but you probably wouldn't have posted what you did if that had been the case. The relationship between the H and W is their relationship, and you have no part in it. You are probably a very nice person, charming and pleasant, but in a lot of pain. Please, realize that the betrayed spouse is also in a lot of pain. She's working very hard to fix a situation that is excruciatingly painful as well. And, frankly, she's got a lot more invested in her relationship with the man than you do. Having been an OW myself, I know how painful that can be to hear, but it is the truth. Take this experience and learn from it. Grow strong from it, gain patience from it and pick up your life and go on. You can get a ton of support on LS, but please go to the OW/OM forum to get it.
Seen_It_All Posted April 30, 2006 Posted April 30, 2006 I'm often quite amazed at how an OW can swallow the lies a MM spoonfeeds her. You know, the ones such as, "I don't sleep with my wife" and then a year later she's pregnant with twins. Or, "my wife's a nasty, rotten, passionless NAG," and then a month or two later he's leaving on vacation headed to a tropical island with her. Oh but of course, he DOESN'T want to go and can't stand ONE minute of it. Feh. What most OW simply don't want to acknowledge is that she's got herself a bonafide liar whose looking out for his OWN best interests. Period. When D-Day comes, like yours just did, it was ALL ABOUT saving his own skin and no one elses. Lied to the wife, told her he was through with you (great for the morale to be reduced to that, isn't it?) and conned her into thinking they're on their way to reconciling. Great guy. Does he have a brother? Hook me up, please. I think you answered your OWN question, Confused, when you said this: "If she only knew everything she would probably never give him another chance again." Proof that yet AGAIN, the liar didn't give his wife the TRUTH so she could make her OWN choice based on FACT - and not the bullcrap fiction that he continues to spoonfeed her - with your help. So, the answer to your question as to WHY his wife 'falls' for his bullsh*it? Because she can't GET the simple truth, that's why. What a world it would be if these cheating liars would actually step up to the plate and be HONEST. Then maybe these so-called gullible, naive betrayed spouses could actually make an INFORMED choice. But I guess, until that magical day arrives, BSs will have to continue HOPING that the man she SHOULD be able to trust is being honest.
OzGirl Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 I have been the OW and I see the lies that the H has told her and she falls for it. She stills calls me wanting to know the details of our A but I refuse to give them to her. If she only knew everything she would probably never give him another chance again. She believes him that we are NC yet we work together and still see each other you would be suprised what you can do in an 8 hr workday. I want to add that it took me almost 3 years to question the validity of the stories my ex-MM told me when I was the OW. I suspected I might have been, but wanted to be "loved" so much I let it pass. It's only now, that I've experienced this situation from that angle, I say what I say in that I wouldn't tolerate it again or give him a second chance. The cuts are just too deep. But, for a BS, if it's not happened before, I would imagine it's the same sort of thing - after finding out, it THEN would take some time before you're convinced it's not as it seems - and it SEEMS like he his remorseful and wanting to fix the problems the A may have been merely a symptom of. I have to ask, in alliance, I think, with some other posters here - you say "...She believes him that we are NC yet we work together...". I think she would probably have to know that much - that you work together. I don't think there's many BS's out there who don't know where or how they met. "...you would be suprised what you can do in an 8 hr workday..." : No offence, but this statement sounds almost like a threat - that your are merely supporting the very behaviour you are expecting the BS to condemn. He CAN go NC if the OW is NC, too. If you are suggesting he is messing around with someone else, then I doubt your concern would be for the BS... it would either be not at all if you are indifferent, or with the MM for having someone new so quickly after confessing undying love for you? I know where you are coming from, and I know how the BS can seem like the only reason you and the MM aren't together forever. But, be realistic and accept that if he wanted you, he would move mountains for you, and blaming the BS for sticking around is possibly just helping you to avoid the painful truth that those mountains are staying put. To help you - and not patronise you - my only offering to your original post is, if you are not seeing the MM anymore, then don't let this worry you - what the BS does. It's not your concern. Whether you agree with them taking a MM back or not, doesn't really matter. It's their life, and they will make their choices based on the information and evidence before them, and their own needs being fulfilled in the marriage. You are assuming the BS wants what you want, and ought to leave it for not getting it. I can't stop war, famine, crime or natural disasters. I can't stop my neighbour's cat from pissing all over my backyard, and though I've tried, I can't seem to pretend I don't have a piece of my heart permanently spent for having been involved in a MM. I CAN, however, deal with what I can control. You have to let go of him if you want to be free of this kind of worry you have. Post in the OW forum for support if you need it. Best of luck - and understand the feelings you have for BS and what they choose to do.... it's probably multiplied by 100 when they think about the OW and what she was trying to achieve.
target-d Posted May 1, 2006 Posted May 1, 2006 after finding out, it THEN would take some time before you're convinced it's not as it seems - and it SEEMS like he his remorseful and wanting to fix the problems the A may have been merely a symptom of. But you are still assuming that they (the BS) aren't being treated right, and that the MM is still lying. Which in fact may not be the case at all. I was a MW. When I was caught (and yes, I was caught, I didn't confess on my own). I never again even CONSIDERED veering from complete and utter commitment to my husband, and that behavior is actually not as uncommon as one would think. Most cheaters are NOT serial cheaters. Most cheaters are "caught up" in a way of thinking and course of action. That's no excuse, mind you, but it might help in understanding what's going on. I know where you are coming from, and I know how the BS can seem like the only reason you and the MM aren't together forever. But, be realistic and accept that if he wanted you, he would move mountains for you, and blaming the BS for sticking around is possibly just helping you to avoid the painful truth that those mountains are staying put. Very well said, Ozgirl. Exactly what I was trying to say Whether you agree with them taking a MM back or not, doesn't really matter. It's their life, and they will make their choices based on the information and evidence before them, and their own needs being fulfilled in the marriage. You are assuming the BS wants what you want, and ought to leave it for not getting it. You are assuming that the MM is not contrite and that they really AREN'T working on the marriage. This seems to be the crux of the belief of most of the OW who post on this forum, which is unfortunate for a number of reasons. Often it seems the OW is still hoping that the BS is going to throw out the MM and then one of two things can occur (in the OW's mind): 1. he will come back to the OW and they will happily live the life she was hoping for. 2. he will come back to the OW and she can kick him in the b*lls for all the pain she went through. Actually, neither of those scenarios is the most common. The marriage obviously had problems or there never would have been an OW, but often the catalyst for fixing things is the fear that you really will lose what you think you will never lose. And this applies both to the BS and the MM. The MM feels that he is secure and in control. When he finally realizes that he isn't in near the control that he thought, a lot of times it DOES spur him to straighten up and fly right. Fear of loss doesn't only affect women, even though we often think it does.
fisher-man Posted May 2, 2006 Posted May 2, 2006 But you are still assuming that they (the BS) aren't being treated right, and that the MM is still lying. Most cheaters are "caught up" in a way of thinking and course of action. That's no excuse, mind you, but it might help in understanding what's going on. You are assuming that the MM is not contrite and that they really AREN'T working on the marriage. this is true. I was a married man. I wasn't caught, I stopped on my own and terminated the relationship. I had never had an intention to go out and find somebody. I had always been faithful. I'm still not exactly sure what happened. But I can tell you that it will never happen again. The marriage obviously had problems or there never would have been an OW, but often the catalyst for fixing things is the fear that you really will lose what you think you will never lose. And this applies both to the BS and the MM. I thought my wife didn't love me anymore. I thought her career was more important to her and I watched as she became more and more consumed. I formed a friendship or what I thought was a friendship with another woman. It turned into something weird. I turned the woman into somebody who was similar to my wife and she wasn't, not even remotely. I don't know what she turned me into. It doesn't matter. She didn't know me. I didn't know her. The MM feels that he is secure and in control. When he finally realizes that he isn't in near the control that he thought, a lot of times it DOES spur him to straighten up and fly right. Fear of loss doesn't only affect women, even though we often think it does. it started because I thought I'd lost my wife. It ended because I was sick to death of the situation. I was terrified I would lose my wife. Nothing like that happened before ever in my life. Nothing like that will ever happen again in my life.
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