Author BKRPM Posted April 26, 2006 Author Posted April 26, 2006 I guess what I am gaining from the R is the hope that she WILL make the right decision and leave H. Stepping back and looking at the situation, I know it's a pretty big 'if'. As an update, MW had a bit of an 'implosion' last night (I call it this other than 'explosion' because all the bad things are NOT thrown at me, but she just beats herself up with things). She sent an e-mail to me saying that "no one on this earth understands me...not even you...I wish I could be alone from my current R with H, and soon I will be...." The whole e-mail was VERY despondent. I did stop by her office this morning to see if she was ok, because I was a bit worried, and she wasn't mean or anything, but she had a coat of steel armor on, and was this emotionless person that wouldn't look at me for more than five seconds. She mumbled something about her H always disappointing her. I told her that her e-mail was insulting to me and I was very disappointed in her, gave her a tight hug, and walked out to my car. No mean talk, fights, yelling (we never have gotten that way!). I think she needs therapy! Again, thanks for all of the good advice.
Jessie61 Posted April 27, 2006 Posted April 27, 2006 I guess what I am gaining from the R is the hope that she WILL make the right decision and leave H. Stepping back and looking at the situation, I know it's a pretty big 'if'. As an update, MW had a bit of an 'implosion' last night (I call it this other than 'explosion' because all the bad things are NOT thrown at me, but she just beats herself up with things). She sent an e-mail to me saying that "no one on this earth understands me...not even you...I wish I could be alone from my current R with H, and soon I will be...." The whole e-mail was VERY despondent. I did stop by her office this morning to see if she was ok, because I was a bit worried, and she wasn't mean or anything, but she had a coat of steel armor on, and was this emotionless person that wouldn't look at me for more than five seconds. She mumbled something about her H always disappointing her. I told her that her e-mail was insulting to me and I was very disappointed in her, gave her a tight hug, and walked out to my car. No mean talk, fights, yelling (we never have gotten that way!). I think she needs therapy! Again, thanks for all of the good advice. BKRPM, Now that is a pretty big sacrifice for the sake of a big IF...? Isn't it? I find her email insulting (as you say) and also a bit manupulative. The reference to soon being alone from her H and her H disappointing her etc. That is just designed to give you hope (without being TOO specific!) so that you continue to hang in there.... Believe me, I have seen a lot of it myself so I know all the angles because for a long time I was falling for them myself!!!! What is happening now and have you made any decisions?
Author BKRPM Posted April 28, 2006 Author Posted April 28, 2006 Well, I made the decision yesterday morning to go NC. We'll see what happens. After talking to her probably every day for the last 2+ years, and if not, e-mailing back and forth, it is quite the shock to NOT do this. I was very sad yesterday. Still sad today, but, and I don't know if I am still in shock mode, but I feel better than yesterday. You just wonder what is going through her mind. Every so often I think, "I'll just leave a phone message," or "I'll just e-mail her". But as of this point, I am refraining, and staying strong....
Author BKRPM Posted April 28, 2006 Author Posted April 28, 2006 Oh, and thanks, eyeswideshut. I liked the feedback. Sometimes, when I can see that she's very conflicted, it actually isn't that far off that she might resent ME for all HER bad decisions....it's plausible. Screwed up, but plausible.
lovernotafighter Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 stay tough BKRPM! NC is insanely difficult..me and my MM are getting to the point I've seen on this forum where we go NC a couple days..then bam just a little note or visit..at least it seems to be spawning in that direction. I know it isn't easy but I can tell from what I've gathered the more I pull away from my MM with out warning the harder he tries..NC is what needs to be done with your MW...you have to let her miss you.
Jessie61 Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 I know it isn't easy but I can tell from what I've gathered the more I pull away from my MM with out warning the harder he tries..NC is what needs to be done with your MW...you have to let her miss you. My experience is the same. There is nothing like NC or the threat of NC to focus the mind of my MM... We'd be exactly where we were 2 years ago, but for NC. BKRPM, this is going to be hard and I have endured a number of periods of NC of up to 6 weeks, thinking each time that THIS TIME it will be forever. It has been serious grieving on my part, actually getting worse every time of NC. But I have never given in! I literally have had days when I have had to concentrate on each hour as they come; I haven't been able to even see 1 day ahead, never mind 1 week or 1 month ahead. The pain has been unbearable. I have compared it to being under siege; you just have to take cover and sit it out... It does get easier. You ARE doing the right thing. Keep reminding yourself. 2 years of limbo is enough. You need to find out how far she is really willing to go. Keep posting!
Author BKRPM Posted April 29, 2006 Author Posted April 29, 2006 I tried NC for two days, and MW left me a voice message this morning. MW wanted to see me for lunch, which I did. At lunch, she said that she was sorry for anything that would have appeared hurtful in her e-mails discussed earlier, and said that she checked her voice-mails about ten times each the last few days to see if I left any (which I didn't). She said that she was sad that I was in NC mode, and missed me terribly.
whichwayisup Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 She said that she was sad that I was in NC mode, and missed me terribly. That is HER issue and her problem, not yours. The whole point of NC is for you to feel better...For you to heal and get over your feelings for her. She is aware of this too, but is acting selfish by wanting to see you...That isn't fair to you. She reacted because you DID NOT contact her. The outcome is still the same...Right?
Jessie61 Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 I tried NC for two days, and MW left me a voice message this morning. MW wanted to see me for lunch, which I did. At lunch, she said that she was sorry for anything that would have appeared hurtful in her e-mails discussed earlier, and said that she checked her voice-mails about ten times each the last few days to see if I left any (which I didn't). She said that she was sad that I was in NC mode, and missed me terribly. I agree with WWIU. It is totally selfish of your MW to contact you. (Believe me, I have been there...) Of course she misses you! Why wouldn't she? I know that YOU know that you should not have agreed to meet her, but perhaps you'll try harder the next time? You do realise - and I hope your MW realises - that your NC has nothing to do with the email she sent you? You are not "sulking" over that, instead you are looking at the bigger picture, right? You have to try to stay focused on what you are trying to achieve even if it is hard. That is the only way that you will ever find out how she r-e-a-l-l-y feels about you and what her true intentions are. AND if it transpires that she is not serious about you, then NC is the ONLY way that you will ever heal again. So, start counting those days again, eh? Let us know how you get on, OK?
Sami_D Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 I tried NC for two days, and MW left me a voice message this morning. MW wanted to see me for lunch, which I did. At lunch, she said that she was sorry for anything that would have appeared hurtful in her e-mails discussed earlier, and said that she checked her voice-mails about ten times each the last few days to see if I left any (which I didn't). She said that she was sad that I was in NC mode, and missed me terribly. Of course she's sad you're in NC and she misses you. You're one of the few things that make her life bearable. That, as others have said, is her problem. Harsh though that sounds... you are not on this planet to make her life better. She has to know (doesn't she?) that you are doing this NC because you will no longer accept being the OM. THAT is why NC... not to find out if she misses you. It doesn't matter if she misses you. You want more from this than she can give you while she is married. She can contact you when she's left him (that's the hard, bottom line which you need to accept, and tell her about if NC is going to be worth anything). All you did by going for coffee was to demonstrate that you will drop your needs in favour of hers. And what she did by calling you was totally selfish. She is behaving selfishly, and you are letting her do it. Please post more about your feelings and reasons for doing NC. Because I feel you have to be in the right frame of mind before doing it... otherwise, you will end up sabotaging yourself and looking to her like you have no will-power. (((((BKRPM)))))
Jessie61 Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 Please post more about your feelings and reasons for doing NC. Because I feel you have to be in the right frame of mind before doing it... otherwise, you will end up sabotaging yourself and looking to her like you have no will-power. BKRPM, Yes, I agree with Sami. I am not entirely sure that your heart is in it. You have to MEAN it when you say NC.... Come back with your thoughts on this...
Author BKRPM Posted April 29, 2006 Author Posted April 29, 2006 Sami/Jessie- Thanks for letting me talk through this. It helps me sort out my feelings. To answer your questions, maybe NC is not the best thing at this point. I learned this yesterday. I found out yesterday WHY MW hasn't left H. I can't go into a lot of detail here, but it is MWs pervasive feeling that MW truly wants to D (and I believe her), but MW feels like being with H is her lot in life, and she doesn't deserve me because of (what she perceives as, and I don't necessarily agree that they are --) bad things she has done in her life. MW is getting to the point where she wants to see a therapist to discuss these ("I don't deserve happiness") feelings that she has. All this does not make me feel like ("I'll wait a lot longer for her" - NO), BUT, we're close enough that I know that this is not just some line from her....
movinon05 Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 I'm going to read back on this whole thread, but my first gut feelings is that she does need to see a therapist. Her self esteem and self worth is in the toilet. Mine was as well.
Jessie61 Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 Thanks for letting me talk through this. It helps me sort out my feelings. To answer your questions, maybe NC is not the best thing at this point. I learned this yesterday. I found out yesterday WHY MW hasn't left H. I can't go into a lot of detail here, but it is MWs pervasive feeling that MW truly wants to D (and I believe her), but MW feels like being with H is her lot in life, and she doesn't deserve me because of (what she perceives as, and I don't necessarily agree that they are --) bad things she has done in her life. MW is getting to the point where she wants to see a therapist to discuss these ("I don't deserve happiness") feelings that she has. All this does not make me feel like ("I'll wait a lot longer for her" - NO), BUT, we're close enough that I know that this is not just some line from her.... BKRPM, I believe your MW too when she says that she loves you, misses you and that she wants to D her H. BUT that still doesn't mean that she would do it? Believe me, I have been given the run around too, and I know that action speaks louder than words. If she does have her own problems that she need to address, then she really has my sympathy. Nobody should have to feel like he/she doesn't deserve happiness etc. BUT you do realise that YOU can't help her - even if you were a psychologist/therapist/whatever because you'd be too close to her. This is something which SHE needs to do for her own sake. (And no, I don't think this is just a "line" to manipulate you either!) Now, this leave the dilemma as to whether you should stick around for that? My understanding of therapy (but then again I am no expert!) is that it takes time.... How much time are you willing to put down? Especially when these emotional problems are not like having a broken leg when you know that the leg is going to heal and you know roughly how long it will take... Yes, I totally understand that your initial reaction is probably to jump in and help her out as much as you humanly can - I would do the same! - but before you do.... stop to think.... I don't think you should be willing to sacrifice your own emotional/mental/physical health in the process. There is a point where you are certainly entitled to be "selfish" (if you can call it that?) and think of your own well being first! Any thoughts on this...?
Sami_D Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 Hmm. Well you have to trust your gut instincts. I knew when I went NC with MM last October that he wasn't ready to leave, that there were things he needed to deal with, and that I felt in my heart I wanted to give him 'more time'. I think it's good that she's considering therapy. I think it would be great for her if she did. BUT... I still think that she is being unfair to you. Unfair and selfish. Perhaps it would be different if she DID see a therapist... but will she? At the moment I think you're doing what they call 'enabling'. Only you can decide what you need to do, and when you need to do it. If talking about it helps, we're all here for you. I had a thread called 'MM says he's leaving his wife' last October (you can do a search for threads started by individuals by clicking on their name). A lot of people back then advised me to go NC and I did a lot of arguing. What was said there, and what ultimately happened, might be of interest to you if you have time to read it.
Sami_D Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 Yes, I'd add to Jessie's point about therapy taking a long time! I was in therapy for 18 months after my last relationship. You might say well hey, was it worth the money when look where you are now..??? Anyway, the point is that yes... it takes a long time, sometimes years. Especially if she's saying she feels she only deserves what she has now... I wasn't even THAT bad! Sorry to sound flippant... gallows humour for me at the moment. In the meantime... what about YOU? Being in an affair is a terrible, straining thing. And at the end of it, what do you get..? A big fat nothing most of the time.
Sami_D Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 Here's my old thread for you. It took a lot of courage for me to open that, and I managed not to read a single word of it... oh wow the HURT I've been through in this. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t72170/
Jessie61 Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 Well you have to trust your gut instincts. Only you can decide what you need to do, and when you need to do it. If talking about it helps, we're all here for you. I agree. You have to trust your own gut instincts. We can offer advice, different perspectives, but at the end of the day we don't know you OR your MW and we only know a fraction of all your circumstances. Most situations are very similar, but there is always an ingredient (small or big!) that makes one situation slightly different than all the others and we might not even know what it is. So it is up to you to make up your own mind with the benefit (I hope!!!) of our contributions! Keep talking!
Jessie61 Posted April 29, 2006 Posted April 29, 2006 You might say well hey, was it worth the money when look where you are now..??? Anyway, the point is that yes... it takes a long time, sometimes years. Especially if she's saying she feels she only deserves what she has now... I wasn't even THAT bad! Sorry to sound flippant... gallows humour for me at the moment. Yes, a sense of humour is a MUST in these situations! And gallows humour probably works even better!!!! Anything to get through the day....
Author BKRPM Posted May 22, 2006 Author Posted May 22, 2006 An update to what has been happening the last few weeks....MW decided that she was being unfair to H and OM (me), and started going to a therapist to sort this out. I think this has helped her clear her mind a bit. I have seen MW about 2x/week since then. Situation with H has gotten a lot worse. Told me that D has been mentioned from H to MW, and MW to H. MW still tells me that she really needs me in her life. Understandably, after each H/MW argument, MW very despondent. I tell her that I am around if she needs to vent (and assure her that H-MW dealings are her business, and I would not get involved), but MW keeps feelings bottled up inside. I'm kind of worried as her despondent episodes are very severe.
whichwayisup Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 If she is really seeing a therapist, then he/she will be working on getting MW to open up and talk her feelings out. That isn't your problem, nor should you make it your problem. I know you care, but what is going on inside of her and all the choices she has to make IF the divorce does happen, she needs to be on her own and learn how to DO this ON her own. Hope that makes sense to you. Wouldn't you want her to be alone, figure it out, and if she is getting a divorce it would be happening reguardless if you were there or not? Do you want to be the main reason why she ends her marriage? To be with you? It may be really hard, but she needs to focus on herself and figure out things at home...Remove yourself from it all, and don't see her at all. Communicate if you have to through emails. She is still pursuing a relationship with you and her whole life is a mess. That's not a healthy place for either of you to be in. MW should be saying "she wants to have you in her life..." By saying she "Needs" you in her life is a desparate way of thinking...I hope you see the difference.
Sami_D Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 I agree with WWIU. I'm glad she's seeing a therapist. But this will be the start of a long road. I think it would be much better for you AND her if you could put some distance between the two of you for now. No need to go completely NC if you can't do it, but allowing her some space (even if she doesn't feel that's what she wants or needs!), and yourself some breathing and thinking time, would be really good now. You don't want to be her crutch... you want to be her equal partner sometime down the line, if that's what's meant to be..? So don't be it now... she needs to stand on her own feet (and therapy will help her do that), and you need to know you're not just a booty call/ emotional crutch.
Author BKRPM Posted May 27, 2006 Author Posted May 27, 2006 OW continues to see therapist. Mentioned this week that she knows that her current R with H is adversely affecting her children, and has started positioning herself for a possible D. I've backed off a bit, but now the push-pull cycle is in full swing. OW cancelled a lunch appt with me, citing that she felt guilty to H. These types of (push) things alternate with times (pull) where OW says that OW would love to spend every day with me if she could and says that every time that OW tries to back off from me, her heart aches so much because she never would want me to NOT be around.
Author BKRPM Posted May 29, 2006 Author Posted May 29, 2006 I must have been tired when I typed the last reply. Obviously, I meant MW in each case, not OW. The 'push-pull' continues. When MW gets stressed, she seems to close off her emotions, and goes just with rational thought. At lunch the other day, we had a great time, and I got her to open up again.
Author BKRPM Posted May 30, 2006 Author Posted May 30, 2006 Ladies, please tell me....why is my MW messing with my mind? I guess I have been thinking too much lately. She still is in 'push-pull' mode with me, and she is also seeing a therapist. I try to give MW space so that she can sort her issues out (whether she wants to stay married - and I stay out of that completely), but then she asks me why I didn't ask her to sleep with me again when we were together one day last week. As I see on this board, the physical for a woman only intensifies the emotional bond. If this is true, then why the 'push-pull?' I really need a woman's POV....THANKS
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