DO I leave?

[eyeswideshut]

I knew a guy all my life, he always had a crush on me, and he's my brother's best friend. I never got to know him because back then, he was a nerd and I was quite popular. I broke up with my fiancee about two years ago and when he found out, he had just gotten married.

He jokingly said: NOW she's available.

Fast forward. We met up at a party last summer and he wanted to know all about my breakup. We ended up going for coffee, and realized how many things we have in common. During this first conversation, he told me he was in the same situation, that they were only married two years, and were still living together, but were breaking up (separating).

We started seeing one another and got along great and he was seeing a therapist until his brother died recently. He spent a lot of time with me and went to grief therapy, and said he'd have to put the couple therapy on hold until he could handle it. A few weeks ago he told me he was getting back together with her, so i let him go, understandibly. (i care for him as a brother).

But after a month of being apart, he realizes how much he misses me and then comes back (we talk everyday). now what?

When we are together, it's as though we've been meant to be all our lives. He doesn't have a very happy marriage, never wanted to marry in the first place. He says he discovered this about a year in. Then when he met me, he never knew he could ever feel this way. We are friends before anything and we are brutally honest about everything because we were childhood friends. I think he is going back because too much has changed in his life lately with his brother's death and she is being super supportive.

After he broke it off with me, we remain close friends. I don't flirt with him but he constantly tries to conquer me. he says he is trying to work it out because he wants to do his duty as a husband and at least do the therapy until the end. after a month of being "broken up" with him, he came back and slept with me because he says he doesn't have passion for her. he is already planning to come over next week. What do I do? I mean with the friendship? Do I leave completely?

[tikigods]

I say run away. Let him either get help for his current relationship, or get rid of his wife.

[whichwayisup]

You are taking his time over his wife. If they are trying to work out their marriage, then BE a friend and tell him to go home to be with her. Don't spend time with him "as a friend" because it's not like that. His wife more than likely would be hurt if she knew he was spending special time with you and bonding. He should be confiding more in her, and his bestfriend, your brother. Not another woman...Even though you've known him for so long, that still is abit tricky as he's married.

 

He is grieving still, will be for a while, so his emotions are messed up too. He could be confusing his crush on you for something more.

[officespace]

We are friends before anything and we are brutally honest about everything because we were childhood friends..... What do I do? I mean with the friendship? Do I leave completely?

 

I hate to tell you this.....and maybe your situation is a RARE exception, but once you cross the line from friendship to lovers, you can never go back. You may be able to be friend one days, but not until you are COMPLETELY over him.

 

My MM and I had an awesome platonic friendship for 4 1/2 years before getting involved romantically. And we kept talking about keeping the friendship, keeping the honestly and communication......we are so different. If this doesn't work out, we will always be friends.

 

Well, once he moved out, his old patterns of omitting truth and not communicating started with ME! ME! I already knew his tricks. We were supposed to be so different. I already knew he had these issues, but we were so "different" because we were friends first.

 

The outcome of our relationship is NO DIFFERENT than any other girl from his past. And, the friendship is gone. No more friendship. Maybe later, but not now, and we were EXTREMELY close. Best Friends.

 

Bottom line, once sex and romantic feelings get involved, the dynamic of the relationship changes. It's inevitable. You have to accept this as truth.

[eyeswideshut guest]

But!!

I am really confused. Before his brother died, they had both agreed to separation. the families both knew. AND he loved me as a sister so that is why I trusted him when he began to woo me. (why would he woo me if it was to only have fun or string me along, right?)

When his brother died I told him it was bad timing and that we shouldnt' start a relationship.

But he insisted.

The question is. Why did he go back? I don't understand. And when I told him I supported his decision to go back, why did he keep coming back to me when I made it so easy for him to leave me?

 

Why does he keep insisting?

Does he purposely want to hurt me? I was fine when he broke it off the first time, I shrugged it off like, oh well, it was only six months.

but since he came back, it confused the hell out of me.

[eyeswideshut]

I thank you all for telling me like it is.

I am on my way to grieving this relationship which was all just an illusion anyway.

However, when we first started seeing one another (before his brother died) he had broken up with her, and the families knew.

Basically, they were still living together because he couldn't deal with talking about divorce when she was supporting his family through the whole ordeal.

But when he finally said he wanted her out of the house, she moved back in with her mother. He is really close to her mother, and her friends and to everything attached to her, except for her. I am wondering if he only went back because he felt as though losing too many people at once in his life would be too much to handle (because of his brother's death).

but if I think back on how he was before his brother's death, it was over! it was on its way to be finalized. he already went through the whole ordeal with both families, and with the friends. When he decided to go back, no one believed him. No one. They all think he just went back because he wasn't strong enough to handle it all right now. Even she didn't believe him. THey had broken up (except not legally).

He now has no more family members left. His mother died, he is extremely close to his wife's mom, and his father was never present, so his father in law became a father figure to him. I think he is afraid of losing the only family he has left. His brother was his only sibling. Aside from this, he doesn't get along with his wife, he says they always argue about the tiniest little things. even his father in law warned him about her when he was given the ultimatum to marry her. (she's a spoiled little brat)

he knows me. He remembers all the stages of my life. And he says it would be amazing if we could be together, it would be too amazing, almost like a dream come true. He said he always wanted to be in my space, but was too shy to approach me when we were growing up because I was really fiesty and he was shy. And now, it's really odd that he would leave ME.

When I realized he was married, (of course he was legally) but really married (going back) I said: OMG, I am the OW!

and he said: no, don't say that. she's the other woman.

am I stupid and over confident to believe he will realize it soon that they are not meant to be because he now found true happiness in us? they were only married two years, and don't have children.

[Jessie61]

Eyeswideshut,

 

You have all my sympathies. It is not an easy situation.

 

However, I don't think you should agonise and analyse all the "ifs, buts and whys" too much, because you could drive demented in the process. If you want to concentrate on anything at this point, concentrate on yourself!

 

I doubt that you could be "friends" with your MM. Don't feel you should have to because you know each other for years, because you care about him, because he wants to. I suspect that it would be impossible for you to stay friends; for him to work on the M or decide what he wants to do, and for you to perhaps meet someone else that is single. Staying in touch would just perpetuate him "sitting on the fence" and you remaining the OW indefinitively.

 

I think you should consider cutting him loose, asking him to stay away. He has quite a lot on his plate with the M problems and his brother's death. He probably needs time to himself to think? Perhaps he realises that life is too short and that he belong elsewhere than his M? Perhaps he decides that the M is the way forward? Either way, the situation does not remain in limbo.

 

Read a few of the threads; some of these A have been going on for years (I have clocked up over 2 years!)! Are you willing to "do the time" for something that might never happen? Also bear in mind that there is less incentive for HIM to do anything for as long as he already has you...?

 

Let us know how what happens!

[eyeswideshut]

I'm always amazed when I hear for others this had been going on for years. I always believe it won't happen to me which is why now is the "make it or break it" point. I guess it's the "hoping" that never dies, right?

When you find someone you love. What is your situation? Why two years of this?

I liked to pride myself on being "the girl who always got the guy". I was giving advice right and left to my friends to walk away if the guy didn't treat them like goddesses, and expected so much for myself. And now look! I'm one of those girls who can't see when a guy is not into her! With a childhood friend!

Does being married for only 2 years count as married? (especially since the last year they were only roommates?)

[movinon05]

I hate to be critical here, but there seems to be a recurring theme in your posts.

 

He was the nerd, I was the popular girl. He had put you on a pedestal. He says, "Now, she's available."

 

he knows me. He remembers all the stages of my life. And he says it would be amazing if we could be together, it would be too amazing, almost like a dream come true. He said he always wanted to be in my space, but was too shy to approach me when we were growing up because I was really fiesty and he was shy. And now, it's really odd that he would leave ME.

 

He put you on a pedestal in his mind many years ago.

 

You're used to getting the guy. You advise friends to be treated like a goddess.

 

Does being married for only 2 years count as married?

 

Ummm. Yes!!!!!

 

As I said, I don't mean to be critical, but what is this really about? Is it more that you are not able to handle rejection because you are not used to it, or are you really concerned for him. He's very mixed up now. And perhaps he has taken you down off that pedestal after he went through his loss, realizing there's more to people than just a pretty face. Perhaps he's appreciating his wife more. He is not in the right frame of mind to be making any big lifetime decisions.

 

You gave him his space to go back to his wife. He came back. You need to continue to stay away and perhaps allow your ego to deflate a little. He doesn't know what the heck he wants. JMHO

 

And I really am not saying this to be mean. This is just how its all coming across to me. But I could be wrong. Who knows.

[Jessie61]

I'm always amazed when I hear for others this had been going on for years. I always believe it won't happen to me which is why now is the "make it or break it" point. I guess it's the "hoping" that never dies, right?

When you find someone you love. What is your situation? Why two years of this?

I liked to pride myself on being "the girl who always got the guy". I was giving advice right and left to my friends to walk away if the guy didn't treat them like goddesses, and expected so much for myself. And now look! I'm one of those girls who can't see when a guy is not into her! With a childhood friend!

Does being married for only 2 years count as married? (especially since the last year they were only roommates?)

 

Eyeswideshut,

 

Like yourself I pride myself on insisting on standards and being treated in a certain way. In fact, I had been single for over 3 years (by choice, I might add!!! ) before I met MM. Yes, he treats me like a goddess but this situation and him dragging his feet because of the kids has been far from good for me.

 

Why stay? Yes, it is the hope. It is there anyway and it is being nurtured by the MM because it suits him. My MM wanted to buy time to decide what to do. From the start we both said that we are not interested in an A; I am no mistress material and he said his M had been dead for years and he just wanted to make sure that I am "the one" for him. Anyway, after a year I just could not take it anymore. He wanted to have 2 years under his belt to make an informed decision and he was still terrified about the consequences for his children. Fair enough, I said, but he would have to let me go. This is when this "the drama of the 4 million break ups" started. At all times, he came back after me offering me hope. I can honestly say with my hand on my heart (and I am not a romantic person!) that I know that we love each other. Add that to the hope and you have 2 years waiting.....

 

Anyway, I moved away to another country eventually because I could easily see it turning into 3 years, 4 years etc etc. Now he's back again. He says he is leaving in June and he's making all the arrangements etc. We'll see what happens....

 

Would I wish this on anyone? No, absolutely not. I have never been so miserable, stressed and unhappy as I have been for the last 14 months.

 

If you feel that you have any choice in the matter, CHOOSE not to go down this road. Your MM will come after you, if and when he becomes available.

 

Please stay in touch and let us know what is happening!

[eyeswideshut]

Movinon, you are hiilarious! No I don't take it as critical, I'm just being A HELL OF A LOT less modest because I'm posting on the internet, but in real life I am sooo modest you wouldn't believe it. (hahahhaa)

No, I'm not the pretty girl. I'm the girl who has an aura of confidence, (who does it all, the athlete, the artist, the funny girl-next-door, the supermodel)(see how modest?)

Anyway. no, it isn't about being rejected. I was actually impressed in HIM for rejecting ME! It kind of made him more desirable, hahaha. ( i hate when people just fall at my feet without knowing the real me)

It's about the fact that there was this whole history behind it. You know, the story of the ugly duckling, well, he knew me when I was a tomboy, running around playing basketball with the boys, burping and spitting, and then turning out to be pretty and feminine.

I admit I am outwardly pretty, but I HATE that. the wrong men are always falling at my feet for the wrong reasons, because I know who I am and I don't care so much for these things. And the ones I like (the bookworms, the artists, they're either gay or married, or too old.)

Well, I fell for him right away because he knew me back then. He didn't just fall at my feet. On our first date I said: I'm not a cheap date, I eat like a pig. He said: I know, just don't burp though. And I was like: OMG, he really remembers how stupid I used to be when i was a kid.

He doesn't care for the titles, the letters after my name, what I look like, he knows the little girl inside of me that I guard soo strongly.

 

All in all, I fell for him because not only did we realize how many things we had in common, we had a history, and in a big city, where people sometimes don't even say hi, it was soo comforting.

 

Oh god. I think this site is saving my sanity though.

You guys made me see that a friendship now is impossible, and makes me the OW, which he doesnt' need right now, and which makes me sooo obsessed.

 

Thank you sooo much.

 

We have to keep writing.

He wrote an email. Our last few emails were of the "joking like mad" variety, he's a writer, I'm a writer, we love to banter, so now, I am wondering how I am going to end this all.

Do I send an email to say I have to end it?

Eeesh, that seems so cold. He won't accept that we are "not friends" because of his vulnerable situation, maybe I will just disappear and he will get the hint? He is, after all a master of the mind.

haha.

I'll be fine, but I still wonder how to walk away gracefully.

 

suggestions?

 

movinon, what's your situation?

jessie, keep me posted too!!

[movinon05]

Movinon, you are hiilarious! No I don't take it as critical, I'm just being A HELL OF A LOT less modest because I'm posting on the internet, but in real life I am sooo modest you wouldn't believe it. (hahahhaa)

No, I'm not the pretty girl. I'm the girl who has an aura of confidence, (who does it all, the athlete, the artist, the funny girl-next-door, the supermodel)(see how modest?)

Anyway. no, it isn't about being rejected. I was actually impressed in HIM for rejecting ME! It kind of made him more desirable, hahaha. ( i hate when people just fall at my feet without knowing the real me)

It's about the fact that there was this whole history behind it. You know, the story of the ugly duckling, well, he knew me when I was a tomboy, running around playing basketball with the boys, burping and spitting, and then turning out to be pretty and feminine.

I admit I am outwardly pretty, but I HATE that. the wrong men are always falling at my feet for the wrong reasons, because I know who I am and I don't care so much for these things. And the ones I like (the bookworms, the artists, they're either gay or married, or too old.)

Well, I fell for him right away because he knew me back then. He didn't just fall at my feet. On our first date I said: I'm not a cheap date, I eat like a pig. He said: I know, just don't burp though. And I was like: OMG, he really remembers how stupid I used to be when i was a kid.

He doesn't care for the titles, the letters after my name, what I look like, he knows the little girl inside of me that I guard soo strongly.

 

All in all, I fell for him because not only did we realize how many things we had in common, we had a history, and in a big city, where people sometimes don't even say hi, it was soo comforting.

 

Oh god. I think this site is saving my sanity though.

You guys made me see that a friendship now is impossible, and makes me the OW, which he doesnt' need right now, and which makes me sooo obsessed.

 

Thank you sooo much.

 

We have to keep writing.

He wrote an email. Our last few emails were of the "joking like mad" variety, he's a writer, I'm a writer, we love to banter, so now, I am wondering how I am going to end this all.

Do I send an email to say I have to end it?

Eeesh, that seems so cold. He won't accept that we are "not friends" because of his vulnerable situation, maybe I will just disappear and he will get the hint? He is, after all a master of the mind.

haha.

I'll be fine, but I still wonder how to walk away gracefully.

 

suggestions?

 

movinon, what's your situation?

jessie, keep me posted too!!

 

Well now, glad you asked. Look towards the bottom of the page to "My Story" and there it is in black and white. Nothing to be proud of but it is 7 years of pain. Try to put THAT in perspective when you consider what could happen with you.

 

I know what you mean about having guys fall for you for your looks. I too am very modest. I've had that happen but they also fell for me with my personality and guys I dated in the last year were planning our lives within a few dates. Sent me running the other way.

 

But anyway, I don't know what to suggest to you. A clean break will protect you. E-mailing him "might" help him through this. But then it gets messy in a thousand different ways. Perhaps you need to explain to him about his not being able to make decisions now. Let him lean on his best friend - your brother. If he is sensitive to your needs, perhaps he will understand that it is not fair to do this to you either. He has quite a long healing process to go through as well as working it out or not with his W. You can tell him to look you up when he gets his life in order, but that you must live your live too. You have a lot of history together. Perhaps if he cares enough, he will allow you to do that.

 

And btw, thanks for not being too sensitive to perceptions.

[eyeswideshut]

I'm still here. I should be doing a million one other things on a friday night.

I just wanted to reply about your situation.

About how he treats you like a goddess and how his marriage is dead.

How does that make you feel?

I am terrified, because my MM couldn't even stay interested (although they've been together for 5 years before) for more than 2 married years.

I am always wondering, what if he gets bored of me? Do MM actually have nothing left to lose once they've divorced?

I can just picture myself, all happy and confident with him and then five to seven years down the road, he's "uh... a tad bored."

In five to seven years, I'd rather be done with the dating scene, you know, growing old with someone, even though the "sparks" are gone.

do you wonder about those things? Are MM who cheat on their wives the distracted type? or did they just not find the right one?

I believe you when you say you two love each other.

have you ever read Against Love by Laura Kipnis? It's a polemic about this very subject. That love will be kept alive by obstacles, but remove the obstacles and...

sometimes I wonder how some women keep their men by the balls just by being bitchy. I'm so easy going, it's almost as though it was easier for him to go back to her (because she was crying so much) than dumping me, because I'm so understanding and don't try to trick him or manipulate him into staying.

Anyway. I'm sure if I would have pulled a fit, a passionate fit he probably would have stayed. hahaha

 

To anyone out there...

what does the MM do to make you feel like a goddess. Maybe we can come up with a list to see what they have in common. We women have to stick together!!!

 

here are my top three (don't laugh)

 

1) he looks at me like he's beside himself in his passionate feelings for me

2) he tells me everything that goes through his mind, like we're partners in crime or something

3) aside from the lust, it's as though we have everything in common.

[zarathustra]

To anyone out there...

what does the MM do to make you feel like a goddess. Maybe we can come up with a list to see what they have in common. We women have to stick together!!!

 

here are my top three (don't laugh)

 

1) he looks at me like he's beside himself in his passionate feelings for me

2) he tells me everything that goes through his mind, like we're partners in crime or something

3) aside from the lust, it's as though we have everything in common.

 

1) He used to call me 'pretty one'

2) He used to put his hand on the small of my back and whisper in my ear to tell me that I look hot

3) He used to tell me that he wanted to take care and provide for me and make my life easier

4) We thought so similarly that it was as though we didn't have to speak and he would know what's in my head.

5) He would tell me everything about what's going on in his life (when we first started). He was my best friend for a little while.

6) He knew how to touch me and kiss me exactly the way I wanted to be touched and kissed

[Jessie61]

Eyeswideshut,

 

Yes, I am still here too.... Different continent, but still here!

 

How does MM make me feel like a goodess? Well from the first moment we spoke we just clicked, it was as though we had known each other for years. Yes it is a cliché but that's what it felt like. I had known who he is because we're in the same line of business in a relatively small city. We ended up having lunch with a group of people and we started talking and talking and talking and when we looked up, the rest of our company had gone and the restaurant was empty! Anyway, we spoke about very personal things such as dreams and regrets which is not something I would discuss with just anyone. From then on, he seems to always know what I am thinking, what I am worried about, he accepts me for who I am even when I am far from perfect. We can read each other like open books. We're great friends, we support each other and we laugh a lot. After a fight - and God knows there have been a few! - the anger just evaporates when we see each other, leaving us both with a feeling that there is nothing that we cannot get over together. Yes, it sounds really soppy, I know, but that is what it is like! (Have I turned into a romantic fool in my old age???? )

 

MM also spends a lot of time with me. Before I left the country we would see each other every single day (when not in NC mode) for lunch or coffee in town, or we'd cook dinner at my house, go for walks or whatever. Some weekends we'd go sailing together, and we have been on trips away many times.

 

I do think that his M was dead long before I showed up on the scene. Why? He's never there. He leaves the house at 7am and doesn't return until 10pm. At weekends, he is also in constant contact; he would hardly text my throughout a Sat night if he was holding hands with the W? He has no trouble going off on trips; we even went off for a whole week together without even a question from the W. No, they do not fight, it is just dead and they lead separate lives and keep up appearances in front of the kids, friends and family. I have heard them talking on the phone many times. It is dead.

 

I think that they got married for the wrong reason. The W got pregnant after 6 months of dating, they were too young and they decided to stay together because "they had to". If she had not got pregnant, they would not be together now, according to MM and - apparently - the W.

 

I get the impression that your MM also got married perhaps for the wrong reason, but I could be mistaken? Is that why he is not interested now in his M? I don't think you should worry about him getting bored with you after 2 years. You are not her. Do I worry about my MM cheating on me if we ever got it together? No, for him to be with me he would have to give up a lot of the time he gets to spend with the kids, half of what he's built up over the years and the rest of it. Of course, he COULD cheat on me, but couldn't anyone do exactly that?

 

Sorry, you ask how does all of this make me feel? Crushed, to be honest. It is the uncertainty of it all mixed with a huge portion of hope. I try to be hard and tell myself that this is a "no hoper", but I also realise that he has come a long way in the last few months towards a D in terms of realising that a D would not automatically turn the kids into homicidal maniacs or drugaddicts etc, which is the reason why he has dragged his feet. Now there are only a few weeks left before he is meant to leave, and he is taking steps to make sure that he will do it. THAT is very hard; it gives me tremendous hope, but until it is done I don't actually know that it will be done!

 

Would I recommend this for you? No, absolutely not. I have asked myself would I go through this again - even if I do end up with "the Big Prize"? Sometimes I say yes, but most of the time I say NO. It is just to painful. It is the first time (and ONLY time) that I am an OW. If I had known what it is like, then I'd like to think that I would have refused that first invitation for coffee after the business lunch....

 

What should you do? I think that my initial advice to you stands. I guess I am a perfect example of "what NOT to do"????

 

How do you feel now? Give us an up to date!

 

Stay in touch!

[Sami_D]

... A few weeks ago he told me he was getting back together with her, so i let him go.

 

... But after a month of being apart, he realizes how much he misses me and then comes back...

 

... I don't flirt with him but he constantly tries to conquer me. he says he is trying to work it out because he wants to do his duty as a husband and at least do the therapy until the end. after a month of being "broken up" with him, he came back and slept with me because he says he doesn't have passion for her.

 

Is he or isn't he working on his M?

 

They're only 2 years married, no children yet to complicate things. But somehow he's making a hash of everything. He needs to sort his head out about whether or not he wants to be married to this woman.

 

"He constantly tries to conquer me"

 

WHILE he's supposedly working on his marriage? Um... he's not working on his M, he's having it all ways. "Doing his duty as a H"...

 

And...

 

"he came back and slept with me"

 

And... where were you while that was happening..?

 

To me, it sounds like he's on a mission to get an Ego Boost. Tell him to take a hike till he can decide which of you he wants!

[eyeswideshut]

after reading all your enligntening responses, i've resolved to just walk out of this entire situation.

had a wonderful day with a friend, and haven't responded to his before-last email.

but then i get back tonight and there's a message. short and sweet, but basically meaning he hates all this and misses me.

My plan was to not ever answer back and let him take the hint.

but do I write back to explain i am leaving, or do i just leave?

i'm afraid he'll keep trying to win me back. like once he knows he has me real good, he goes on with his everyday routine with his wife. Whenever there is any semblance of me getting my life back on track, he suddenly needs me.

don't want this to become a cycle.

so now what?

i am afraid that if i cave in now, i will be going through this forever.

[whichwayisup]

Stay strong and give it afew days until you decide IF you want to reply. You may want to write a 'draft' email (don't send it) to get your thoughts out. Then maybe if you want, send him ONE final email. A goodbye and not to contact you ever again. Be very clear and direct so he understands that you will never be replying to any of his emails. The one that he will be reading will the last one. (I say this so you can have your closure from him and hopefully by taking control will allow you to get over him and the situation better.)

 

Good luck and don't cave! You are alot stronger than you think you are!!

[eyeswideshut]

One thing about my MM is that he has had such a hard year this year.

I always told him we can be friends and was there for him mostly as a friend because we've been together 8 months and the last two were after his brother's death, so my Role sort of changed from possible g-friend to just supportive person. (well not it his mind, but you know, I wasn't playing all hard to get or being cocky like i normally am)

he loved that i was "so nice" to him and "so generous" and didn't play games.

Walking away, I feel as though i am saying: "oh well, you made a mistake in going back to your wife, now you're going to pay."

I wasn't even sure yet if i wanted a relationship, (I'm a bit of a commitment phobe and he knew this, I walked out on my fiancee after 8 years). When he told me he was going back, I was like: "oh, okay" and kind of was fine with it, as long as we kept the friendship.

I so love the friendship, and though i fantasize of it becoming more, maybe it wouldn't exactly kill me if it wasn't.

I've had time to think about what I want out of life, and I am not quite sure it would be a future with him, not just because he didn't have enough backbone to NOT get married when he got the ultimatum, but for other things, like i'm not sure he wants children, i'm not sure he'd want to marry me, (our relationship began as a discussion against marriage - i was trying to avoid one).

However, I love our friendship. I would like it to come out in the open, but maybe eventually, it will.

i do feel like the OW though, because he is married and because no one in our circle of friends know that we hooked up these past few months. (especially not my brother)

I feel as though, if i walk out and write the "last email" it will come off as too dramatic.

if i just act friendly and embrace this connection (which the both of us have yet to understand), maybe it will be one of those friendships that bloom?

OR AM I JUST DELUDED AND I AM REALLY IN LOVE?

(otherwise I wouldn't be analyzing it so much)

I think I need to say in my head that it is over, and get on with my life, (I do consider myself single, and he knows that and can't prevent me from dating others.)

but maybe continue helping him out through this tough time?

(not the marriage part, we never talk about his wife, except if he brings it up, but I act as though it's none of my business, it's his business)

but his tough time in terms of his loss, the incapacity to go back to work, his business goals, his finding himself....

 

argh!

should he do this on his own?

and how do i gently tell him: i can't be your friend anymore?

I mean, if I do that, he'll think it's because i wanted him as a boyfriend,, and i wasn't even sure yet, i was just testing it...hahah

[Sami_D]

I agree with WWIU... you need to take a bit of time to think, and then write him a NC email explaining what you've decided.

 

... if i just act friendly and embrace this connection (which the both of us have yet to understand), maybe it will be one of those friendships that bloom?

OR AM I JUST DELUDED AND I AM REALLY IN LOVE?

(otherwise I wouldn't be analyzing it so much)

I think I need to say in my head that it is over, and get on with my life, (I do consider myself single, and he knows that and can't prevent me from dating others.)

but maybe continue helping him out through this tough time?

 

I can completely understand how you feel about this because I have had a lot of the same emotions with my MM... walk away!?!? How CAN I?

 

eyeswideshut, I think that if you're not already in love... you're going down that route. And meantime, he'll probably have those children with his W and continue with his marriage...

 

Continuing to 'help him'... is just going to break your heart. You'll be on the outside, looking in

[eyeswideshut]

MM just walked out my door. Yes. He slept over. Yes. We slept together.

argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was all proud last night, closing the computer, NOT responding yet, lighting a cigarette, getting ready for bed.

THEN... the phone rang. I didn't have to answer, but a Saturday night phone call from MM? This rarely ever happened. since he said he was going back to her. I picked up, thinking he'd say anything other than:

I'm in front of your building. Can I come up?

So he comes up, and it had been quite awhile since we'd seen one another, so it was legit that we didn't kiss.

We talked for awhile, then went to bed. I told him I wasn't sleeping with him, and he said, it wasn't his intention of coming over.

Then I asked him why are you here. sleeping in my bed? (I can't even answer myself why I let him. I try really hard to WALK AWAY, but i have a really hard time to turn someone away from my doorstep. Next time i have to be ready for a plan)

Anyway. He tells me EVERY WORD A WOMAN WANTS TO HEAR.

 

i don't quite know how to explain it, but ... he started off by telling me how difficult it was for him not to be here. About the decision he took in going back to his wife, how it isn't working, they are okay, but he knows he can be happier with me, and is wondering if he can live like that (married for long, knowing this), he is passionate about me in a way he's never been before, told me he described (my profile) ten years ago to his best friend and never thought he could find one like me, (was very picky),

then... since we are all mushy, I talk to him about babies (he always said he didn't want any before we even hooked up, so this was my reason I wasnt' sure about him yet in the beginning.)

I told him my fantasy about having a baby in every continent, and he doesn't even flinch once. He said he fantasized about having babies with me already. then I say: (because we both have issues about "mariage")

do you want to get married? Now? and he says: yes, let's, now.

then he says: you don't want to though.

and I said: yes deep down inside I do, but not a traditional one.

and he says: okay, on the beach.

Like he wants to show me that all the things he wasn't ever "in the mood for" with her, or anyone i guess, he can do without hesitation with me.

He's a pretty straightforward guy. Last summer I asked him jokingly if he wanted children, and he said: No. Not with her. This was before we hooked up.

Yes. He said everything I wanted to hear. And how he doesn't want to hurt me so that is why he never told me all those things before. But the way he was holding me and looking at me like it was the most dramatic moment in the world that he was with me, I know he is in love.

NOW. why does he stay with her?

Because he said he was a people pleaser. That she would never understand. They don't really fight. He still kisses her, hugs her, he says she really likes it but he's not really into it.

He said he could destroy so many lives by leaving her. I told him the best thing he could do was be honest, no? And he said, even if she found out I cheated, she would still want to work this out. She's hard headed like that. She's the type of proud girl who always said she would never divorce. He said he doesn't have the strength to be destructive. I told him he was hurting other people by what he is doing now. and he said he knows. I said: i will make it easier for you, I will leave you your space. now i have to do it....

how am I going to do this?

[whichwayisup]

He misses you and missed that intensity between you. No doubt about it. The problem is, he more or less told you that things are OK at home between him and his wife...

 

He is moving in circles. He backs off, then comes looking for you again, backs off, then comes for you again. I'm sure in his mind this isn't a well thought plan or a game, he just wants what he wants. It's selfish. He is well aware of the pain he will be inflicting on his wife and others, yet he is still pursuing you.

 

Put yourself first right now and stay strong. DO that email to him, even if you don't send it, it's theraputic and will help you get stuff out of your mind.

[Jessie61]

i am afraid that if i cave in now, i will be going through this forever.

 

Eyeswideshut,

 

This quote is from one of your earlier posts. I have just read your last one. Oh dear!!!

 

I was part of that scene myself; phone call on Sat night, "Can I call up to see you?" That was really the start of something which is still going on more than 2 years and millions of tears later...

 

I wished that someone had shaken me up then to get me to THINK! Perhaps I would have made different choices etc. Then I might have avoided the most stressful and hurtful time of my life. The uncertainty, the agonising, the ups and the downs..... Oh dear!!!!

 

I feel that you have probably gone past "the point of no return" in some ways after last night? Please please please, stop and THINK.

 

No, I am not saying that no MM can be trusted and that they are ALL cake eaters, and therefore by necessity your MM is a pig etc (I don't think it is true and that you can tar everyone with the same brush). You can only decide that for yourself. But still stop to THINK. Do you want to embark on this roller coaster which WILL cause you to cry more than once before you get to the end of it?

[Sami_D]

 

He tells me EVERY WORD A WOMAN WANTS TO HEAR.

 

... they are okay, but he knows he can be happier with me.

 

... And how he doesn't want to hurt me so that is why he never told me all those things before. But the way he was holding me and looking at me like it was the most dramatic moment in the world that he was with me, I know he is in love

 

... he said he was a people pleaser. That she would never understand. They don't really fight. He still kisses her, hugs her, he says she really likes it but he's not really into it.

He said he could destroy so many lives by leaving her.

 

... I said: i will make it easier for you, I will leave you your space. now i have to do it....

how am I going to do this?

 

Well... he's really laying it on thick... all that talk about weddings and babies, and looking into your eyes. It's all talk. And even if it wasn't... He has NO RIGHT talking about those things with you and weaving a little fantasy for you... he can see you're (half, almost?) buying into it!!!!! What a cruel, horrible thing to do.

 

The rest of your post says it all. He's not going to leave her. It doesn't matter HOW 'unhappy' and 'not into' it he is... he's telling you all the reasons he can't (WON'T) leave. And none of them are genuine... it's not about hurting anyone. It's all about him. The worst one is this: 'They're OK'. That means he's fine where he is, however 'not into' it.

 

Anyway... I'm sure you realise this!

 

HOW are you going to walk away..?

 

Hey, if you find out... write a book and you could make Millions. I'll buy one for starters

[movinon05]

I so love the friendship, and though i fantasize of it becoming more, maybe it wouldn't exactly kill me if it wasn't.

I've had time to think about what I want out of life, and I am not quite sure it would be a future with him,

 

I mean, if I do that, he'll think it's because i wanted him as a boyfriend,, and i wasn't even sure yet, i was just testing it...hahah

 

So I'm still confused. What do YOU really feel about him. Because it sounds to me like he "loves you so much" that he is "planning" the rest of his life with you. You don't seem to have as much invested in this relationship other than the friendship. And if you are not head over heels in love with him, its best to walk now.

 

All the wonderful things you're hearing from him now isn't going to amount to a hill of beans if he really does end his M. Because then his expectations are that you wanted that to. And if you're not already feeling that way, you are going to feel pressure to feel that way. As I said earlier, I have had at least 3 men, who after meeting me immediately starting planning our lives. It was very flattering on one hand, but I knew in my heart I wasn't ready for that and knew it took time to get to know someone. It was very difficult ending it with these men because I did not feel the same way. It will be twice as hard for you if not more if he ends his marriage to be with you and you're not at that point yet, so I am asking you.

 

How do you REALLY feel about him - before you let it go any further?