MW Is Making Up Fake Stories

[serial muse]

I don't really wanna get too involved in this thread, but I can't think of anything more hurtful and frustrating than being lied to by someone you care about. Sure she has no proof, the woman probably has common sense and can tell when her husband is lying. If you think about it from her POV, not only is her husband sleeping with another woman, he doesn't even respect her enough to be honest about it.

 

I think lying about these types of things only makes the situation worse.

 

If she does think we are sleeping together, and they are seperated, why do you suppose she would want him back? Our relationship is so much more than sexual...it came much later.

 

So? He cheated on her and is in love with another woman and not her.

 

I'm glad that he is finally starting to tell her the truth...I also think this woman is waaaay over the top. And I don't think I'd advocate for saving this marriage, either.

 

But I agree with crazy_grl on this key point: the lying makes it worse. I think your MM really needs to absorb that lesson. As you've seen, not telling her hasn't solved anything, or "eased" her into a new reality. Better to just pull the bandaid off than sloooowly peel it back.

 

And, I think the lying is also the answer to your earlier question, about why she might want him back, or why she wouldn't immediately accept that he loved another woman and not her. He hasn't been honest with her, and nobody can just do an instant 180 like that. It's shaken up her world. She may indeed be a horrible person, but even the most generous, kind person isn't going to be able to accept this new reality with a snap of the fingers.

 

I know he's probably been unable to confront her in the past, and that is why it's difficult for him to do it now. But what I'm saying isn't just for her benefit, it's for everyone's benefit - yours and his, too: you should try to understand that the systematic lying is keeping her from being able to get a clear picture. As long as he provides her with any tendrils of hope, she will not understand how he really feels. He needs to be direct, and honest, and clear about what he wants now - and what he doesn't want. Ambiguity will not help.

 

And it's harsh to say, but I think this is a weakness of character that he should really try to work on.

[beachrosie]

I'm glad that he is finally starting to tell her the truth...I also think this woman is waaaay over the top. And I don't think I'd advocate for saving this marriage, either.

 

I asked him about this, this evening. I asked him if he could be truthful to her also. He said he did so yesterday in the doctor's office, but didn't tell me all the details from that visit yet. We were talking about other things. I had to get off the phone and did not hear of her or the doctor's reply.

 

But I agree with crazy_grl on this key point: the lying makes it worse. I think your MM really needs to absorb that lesson. As you've seen, not telling her hasn't solved anything, or "eased" her into a new reality. Better to just pull the bandaid off than sloooowly peel it back.

 

I guess he was afraid she might shoot him or something, because she has a temper enough to do it.

 

And, I think the lying is also the answer to your earlier question, about why she might want him back, or why she wouldn't immediately accept that he loved another woman and not her. He hasn't been honest with her, and nobody can just do an instant 180 like that. It's shaken up her world.

 

I just know it would be very difficult for me to want to remain with someone that cheated on me, even if my husband was the King of England.

 

She may indeed be a horrible person, but even the most generous, kind person isn't going to be able to accept this new reality with a snap of the fingers.

 

You're right

 

I know he's probably been unable to confront her in the past, and that is why it's difficult for him to do it now.

 

Yes, definitely true.

 

But what I'm saying isn't just for her benefit, it's for everyone's benefit - yours and his, too: you should try to understand that the systematic lying is keeping her from being able to get a clear picture. As long as he provides her with any tendrils of hope, she will not understand how he really feels.

 

I know he really doesn't want to see her in pain.

 

He needs to be direct, and honest, and clear about what he wants now - and what he doesn't want. Ambiguity will not help.

 

And it's harsh to say, but I think this is a weakness of character that he should really try to work on.

 

I believe he is trying to work on it now.

[scarletletter]

I know that it must drive you crazy that the W is doing what she is doing. My guess is in agreement with some of the others here. When you are hurting you do desparate and crazy things. I know because I have done some of those things in my past life. It is a feeling of wanting to hurt the people that have hurt you. I think it is a defense mechanism and probably natural from a person who has not much self esteem or maybe is a weaker person. Sorry about all of the bashing you are getting here but MM don't always tell the exact truth. We want to believe them because we love them. I think that time will make her realize that she is beating a dead horse, if that horse is actually dead.

[whichwayisup]

Sorry about all of the bashing you are getting here but MM don't always tell the exact truth. We want to believe them because we love them I think that time will make her realize that she is beating a dead horse, if that horse is actually dead.

 

This is exactly why the OW have the same problem. BECAUSE their WIVES love them too. The only person who has full control and knows what really IS what, is the MM. Each woman is still filling HIS needs.

 

Meaning, the usual lines are being fed, "I love you and when things settle down at home, I'll leave...When the kids are older, out of school, I'll leave... Then 2 years later, "Please baby, I love you, we WILL be togetherr..." Broken promises...

[beachrosie]

I know that it must drive you crazy that the W is doing what she is doing. My guess is in agreement with some of the others here. When you are hurting you do desparate and crazy things. I know because I have done some of those things in my past life. It is a feeling of wanting to hurt the people that have hurt you. I think it is a defense mechanism and probably natural from a person who has not much self esteem or maybe is a weaker person. Sorry about all of the bashing you are getting here but MM don't always tell the exact truth. We want to believe them because we love them. I think that time will make her realize that she is beating a dead horse, if that horse is actually dead.

 

Thank you for writing. It's okay now...I wrote about it and let it go. I guess that's part of a message board. I didn't take anything as bashing, except for 1, and I know that MM, MW, OW, OM and whomever don't always tell the truth, but time and time again I found that what he is telling me is the truth. He has been very upfront from the beginning.

 

The horse isn't looking so well at all, and hasn't been long before my name was ever spoken.

[beachrosie]

This is exactly why the OW have the same problem. BECAUSE their WIVES love them too. The only person who has full control and knows what really IS what, is the MM. Each woman is still filling HIS needs.

 

Meaning, the usual lines are being fed, "I love you and when things settle down at home, I'll leave...When the kids are older, out of school, I'll leave... Then 2 years later, "Please baby, I love you, we WILL be togetherr..." Broken promises...

 

Well, you just confirmed that it is not "usual lines", because he did leave. Also your filling needs comment is way off. Not all relationships are the same, because if they were - people won't be thinking about actually finding happiness when they are not.

[whichwayisup]

He left, but there are NO PAPERS signed! Men leave their wives for the OW and from what I've seen and read here on LS, it is very rare when the MM doesn't go back to his wife, once he realizes he can't live without her. Your situation is different, but until those papers are signed, do not rely on his word that he his marriage is 100% over.

 

You have blinders on and can't be objective. I think you don't want to see what I pointed out, that's fine. Either way, your MM is selfish. If he really wanted to do it right, he'd back off from you, have some alone time so he can grieve his marriage that is over, a life that didn't work with his wife, and then when the time is right he'd start dating you. I don't understand people who get out of a marriage and jump straight into another SERIOUS relationship without having time to sort through feelings, to be alone and deal with things on their own.

[Sami_D]

FWIW.

 

WWIU... I don't think you're reading much of what Beachrosie is posting here. YOU'RE the one who isn't listening.

 

I don't really see what you're driving at, but what's happening is that the thread is becoming slightly derailed by your assertions that all MM are liars and no OW can possibly have any judgment, insight or knowledge of the situation.

 

Beachrosie, I don't know what to say apart from I think that your not speaking with W is the best option. And that I hope MM manages to deal with it successfully. Being as you have more or less been 'outed', do you think it would be fairest for him to come clean? Or has he done (at the therapists?)

[whichwayisup]

WWIU... I don't think you're reading much of what Beachrosie is posting here. YOU'RE the one who isn't listening.

 

And with that being said, I'm done with this thread. I'm wasting my time and wasting BR's time too.

 

Good luck in life.

[Sami_D]

And with that being said, I'm done with this thread.

 

For the second time?

[beachrosie]

Beachrosie, I don't know what to say apart from I think that your not speaking with W is the best option. And that I hope MM manages to deal with it successfully. Being as you have more or less been 'outed', do you think it would be fairest for him to come clean? Or has he done (at the therapists?)

 

Thank you so much Sami. Thank you for always being a voice of reason.

 

He is going to tell more with the doctor. At first I told him not tell the truth for fear we might be both harmed terribly...but he promised he would. So from that point, I know that whatever happens it is all on the table.

 

I love him like I have loved no other, but time will tell the truth of our story.

 

Thank you for being here and for your rational mind.

 

BR

[beachrosie]

And with that being said, I'm done with this thread. I'm wasting my time and wasting BR's time too.

 

Good luck in life.

 

It is very obvious you have had some relation to this situation, otherwise why would you offer such insight to nothing????

 

You said that before, so I do ponder why you returned? Afterall, you said you have never been in this situation from any side. I do wish you love and much happiness in your own life. Peace to you, Sister.

[Sami_D]

BR... do you mean that you said to him that not telling her about the A would be the best thing? I am SURE that, if it could be kept hidden, that hiding the A would be for the best all round. There is no point in hurting anyone, in making you the focus for anger, or in dragging out the D because the W thinks that her M ended because of the OW rather than it ending because of incompatibility, unmet needs, or whatever.

 

Certainly MM has no intentions of disclosing our A to his W. Especially because of the children... it's hard enough to deal with D, and with a parent having another partner, without knowing that that other partner was 'somehow involved' with the breakup of your parents marriage. Not even adults can deal with that easily/rationally!.

 

But... as she suspects... do you think that now it would be better to disclose? What does your MM think of the situation? What is he saying in this, that it is now the best thing for the A to be open..? (not entirely clear from what you say)... if so... then he is probably right... if he can handle that, and you can.

 

It's so hard to put the genie back in the bottle... and if you two go on to have a R and marriage... then everyone will suspect/know anyway.

[Jessie61]

BR... do you mean that you said to him that not telling her about the A would be the best thing? I am SURE that, if it could be kept hidden, that hiding the A would be for the best all round. There is no point in hurting anyone, in making you the focus for anger, or in dragging out the D because the W thinks that her M ended because of the OW rather than it ending because of incompatibility, unmet needs, or whatever.

 

Certainly MM has no intentions of disclosing our A to his W. Especially because of the children... it's hard enough to deal with D, and with a parent having another partner, without knowing that that other partner was 'somehow involved' with the breakup of your parents marriage. Not even adults can deal with that easily/rationally!.

 

 

BR,

 

What did you call Sami D? A "voice of reason"? I agree...

[serial muse]

BR... do you mean that you said to him that not telling her about the A would be the best thing? I am SURE that, if it could be kept hidden, that hiding the A would be for the best all round. There is no point in hurting anyone, in making you the focus for anger, or in dragging out the D because the W thinks that her M ended because of the OW rather than it ending because of incompatibility, unmet needs, or whatever.

 

Certainly MM has no intentions of disclosing our A to his W. Especially because of the children... it's hard enough to deal with D, and with a parent having another partner, without knowing that that other partner was 'somehow involved' with the breakup of your parents marriage. Not even adults can deal with that easily/rationally!.

 

But... as she suspects... do you think that now it would be better to disclose? What does your MM think of the situation? What is he saying in this, that it is now the best thing for the A to be open..? (not entirely clear from what you say)... if so... then he is probably right... if he can handle that, and you can.

 

It's so hard to put the genie back in the bottle... and if you two go on to have a R and marriage... then everyone will suspect/know anyway.

 

Based on his wife's actions so far, I'd say the genie has well and truly escaped and has gone on to rampage about the neighborhood. He'll never convince her now that there wasn't something going on; all he'll demonstrate is that he doesn't want to tell her the whole truth, and she'll know it, though she may not know what the truth is exactly.

 

I still say coming clean will work best, will get you where you want to go fastest, and is, quite frankly, the most respectful thing to do for all concerned in this situation. And Sami's quite right that post-divorce, it'll be pretty obvious what's been going on. That won't be fun when it comes time to negotiate sharing kid-time. IMO, by not telling her the truth now, he's just postponing an ugly showdown until later.

 

But, I know we all live our lives in our own ways, and do things the way we think best.

 

So, with that said, I'll just add that I truly wish happiness for all concerned. I mean that - you sound like a nice person, rosie. I hope it works out for you.

[Ladyjane14]

And with that being said, I'm done with this thread. I'm wasting my time and wasting BR's time too.

 

Heck WWIU....I don't know how you lasted as long as you did!

 

Imagine....gaslighting the wife, lying to her, and treating her like she's crazy. Then people are all SURPRISED when she starts acting that way.

 

:lmao:

[Blind Illusion]

He should have gotten her help a long time ago, not just now so he can get a divorce! So he's speaking the truth now. And her world is crumbling down. Separated doesn't make a difference in her mind either.

 

Why would she want him back? Are you serious? Hello, it's her husband! The man who she loves. Ofcourse she will do all that is necessary to try to get him back.

 

He is leaving her carrying the barrell as she has to go through this ALONE.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. And we really don't know these person's circumstances. For all we know this man could have tried repeatedly to get his wife help but to no avail. It might be only because she reached an emotional rock bottom, that she will get help now.

 

Can I understand this woman acting maliciously towards BeachRosie? YES. Does she have a "right' to exhibit any kind of bad behavior because she was hurt? No, not really.

 

I think its unfortunate that she has to go through this alone but what alternative do you propose if one person no longer loves another. I don't think I would want someone to stay with me out of some sense of noble obligation. What's the point? It stops us both from finding other partners that truly appreciate us, if that's what we desire.

[Ladyjane14]

Can I understand this woman acting maliciously towards BeachRosie? YES. Does she have a "right' to exhibit any kind of bad behavior because she was hurt? No, not really.

 

I'm with you BI. I can understand the wife acting out too. Heck, I could "understand" if she held the OW down and plucked every hair out of her head with a pair of tweezers.

 

But that don't make it "right".

 

That's because it's not lawful to assault someone. So, it stands to reason that if the BW has done anything unlawful, then BeachRosie is well within her rights to call the police and report it.

 

That also means that she'd be required to testify in court though, and if she does.....I hope she'll post us a copy of the court transcripts.

She'll most likely be required to admit she's been having a sexual relationship with a MM lest she perjure herself.

 

 

 

 

Seriously, the thing that bugs me about his whole thread is the idea that the BW has done something to DESERVE to be cheated on. She's a bad wife, so it doesn't matter how she's treated. The WH and the OW can not only sit in judgement, they can execute sentence too.

 

If this woman is indeed a "bad wife", then what she "deserved" was to be divorced by her husband. NEVER gaslighted by lies and deceit until she's half crazy.

 

I can't imagine how anyone could trust a man who doesn't have enough on the ball to see that. You treat people the way you'd like to be treated. It's a simple enough rule to live by......uncomplicated.

[serial muse]

Seriously, the thing that bugs me about his whole thread is the idea that the BW has done something to DESERVE to be cheated on. She's a bad wife, so it doesn't matter how she's treated. The WH and the OW can not only sit in judgement, they can execute sentence too.

 

If this woman is indeed a "bad wife", then what she "deserved" was to be divorced by her husband. NEVER gaslighted by lies and deceit until she's half crazy.

 

I can't imagine how anyone could trust a man who doesn't have enough on the ball to see that. You treat people the way you'd like to be treated. It's a simple enough rule to live by......uncomplicated.

 

Yes - that's what I think I was trying to say too. I don't really understand why people insist that it's "kinder" not to tell the wife the truth. It is demonstrably not kinder. Ask any BS. Or even, I'm afraid, many OW/OM.

 

It drives people nuts to know something is wrong, and that the person you trusted most won't level with you. "Gaslighting" is exactly the right term for it. It's a way of driving people crazy by insisting that they're not seeing what they say they're seeing. It is really very unkind, and I don't think it is good for anyone except the MM/MW, whose driving aim is to avoid, for as long as possible, being the bad guy. It's just so sad and weak.

[Jessie61]

I think its unfortunate that she has to go through this alone but what alternative do you propose if one person no longer loves another. I don't think I would want someone to stay with me out of some sense of noble obligation. What's the point? It stops us both from finding other partners that truly appreciate us, if that's what we desire.

 

Blind Illusion,

 

I agree with you.

[Sami_D]

Yes - that's what I think I was trying to say too. I don't really understand why people insist that it's "kinder" not to tell the wife the truth. It is demonstrably not kinder. Ask any BS. Or even, I'm afraid, many OW/OM.

 

It drives people nuts to know something is wrong, and that the person you trusted most won't level with you.

 

I totally agree with you on your last point here. IF the W suspects on any level, or has any evidence of an A, then it is absolutely the right thing to do to come clean and tell the truth. Anything else is completely cruel and selfish.

 

I said it was kinder (I think it was me anyway!) not to tell a W about the A IF she has no idea. The reason for this, from the W's point of view..? If it were me, and my H wanted a D... then I'd rather not know that he'd been lying to me and sleeping with someone else during the M. I would have to re-think my whole history with him, and for what? So he could suddenly be 'honest' when it suited him (i.e. as a 'reason' for D)?

 

I think being 'honest' in that situation would only cause more hurt to the W.

[Jessie61]

I totally agree with you on your last point here. IF the W suspects on any level, or has any evidence of an A, then it is absolutely the right thing to do to come clean and tell the truth. Anything else is completely cruel and selfish.

 

I said it was kinder (I think it was me anyway!) not to tell a W about the A IF she has no idea. The reason for this, from the W's point of view..? If it were me, and my H wanted a D... then I'd rather not know that he'd been lying to me and sleeping with someone else during the M. I would have to re-think my whole history with him, and for what? So he could suddenly be 'honest' when it suited him (i.e. as a 'reason' for D)?

 

I think being 'honest' in that situation would only cause more hurt to the W.

 

 

I also think that in a situation where MM/MW leaves, then the marriage was more than likely dead (but yet to be buried) b-e-f-o-r-e OW/OM. Isn't THAT the real reason for the marital breakdown?

[serial muse]

I also think that in a situation where MM/MW leaves, then the marriage was more than likely dead (but yet to be buried) b-e-f-o-r-e OW/OM. Isn't THAT the real reason for the marital breakdown?

 

Perhaps so. But I would say that the one guarantee, if you can call it that, that a marriage should afford both partners is that they will tell each other when things are about to go belly-up, rather than first involving a third party. Some marriages may indeed be "dead" or dying in the mind of the MM/MW - but in many cases, that is because they became fed up with something but neglected to inform their partner of it, or of the seriousness of the situation. In other words, would the marriage have been able to survive if they had both been aware, and tried to work on it? That is why so many advocate counseling first. Let me clarify by saying that I do not think that marriages should stand no matter what - in many, many cases, the partners are far better off splitting. Perhaps even in most cases where there has already been infidelity - I don't know; it's a tough thing to recover from. But I simply cannot see why, if you married someone, you can't at least give them the opportunity to respond directly to your complaints, before making an executive decision that it's over in your mind and you're therefore arbitrarily free to find someone new.

 

Sorry - that's kind of off the topic of this thread. As to Sami's point - well, that's a matter of debate (that's being currently discussed over in infidelity). I disagree, as I think many BS would. I think there are many, many BS who would much rather know the person they're choosing to be with, than live a lie. Even if they didn't yet know they were living it. But I do realize that it's hard to make that choice for people when you don't know how they would actually react. I'm just saying, one way or another, you should realize that you are making it. Even if you don't tell.

 

I also realize, though, that no one is obligated to do anything. Ultimately, it's just a matter of personal choice. I'm only objecting to the idea that not telling is occurring out of kindness. It isn't; it's easier, I agree, and perhaps more expedient, and it's the path of least resistance. And for that reason, I can certainly see why it's more appealing - were I in that position, I honestly don't know what I'd do. I'm just talking from the W's perspective here.

[blind_otter]

I see this consistent childish insistence that there is rhyme or reason to an affair. When there isn't and there never is. There's never an excuse to begin a new relationship if you're still embroiled in another. It causes difficulty, drama, emotional stress, and can destroy other people's lives -- all of this is sacrificed because people cannot practice restraint.

 

And yes, I've been both the cheater and the cheatee before. Before people start waving around those lame "You don't KNOW me!" catch all phrases.

 

You say "I couldn't help it" or "We can't change the fact that we love each other."

 

Well no. You can't. But you can at the very least hold back on sexual intimacy until the previous relationship is over.

 

I've done this in relationships with men who weren't married or attached. I've said, I don't feel ready to start a relationship, or, I think we should take time to get to know each other....the one case I'm thinking of, it was a good thing I did because we were not compatible and ended things before it got physical.

 

Is that so bad? So difficult?

 

Ironically, when I was engaging in extracurricular relationships, I never allowed myself to become the OW. Because I can hurt men, sure. They've hurt me so many times before that I almost excuse the act to myself. But to hurt another woman, for no reason, even if she is crazy seems to me that your heart is selfish and cold. I would have even more compassion for someone who is mentally ill.

 

Of course I did my internship in a mental hospital. I have compassion for those who are delusional and will never be able to experience fulfilling or happy lives because of their mental illness. Every day to them is hell. HELL. Their lives are torturous and excruciating and they bear crosses that most of us would shudder to encounter.

 

When a person with severe mental illness is stablized with pharmacotherapy and talk therapy (if possible) -- one patient I worked with sat in catatonic horror for an enitre year, rocking back and forth under a blanket, horrified at what he had done while he was actively delusional.

 

Compassion is spit upon in our society. Empathizing with someone who is suffering? When you are on the cusp of the rest of your life? What's the point in THAT?

 

I am constantly disgusted with and disappointed in most people.

 

Morality is so flexible for some that's it's almost nonexistent.

 

hysterical nihilism

[beachrosie]

BR... do you mean that you said to him that not telling her about the A would be the best thing? I am SURE that, if it could be kept hidden, that hiding the A would be for the best all round. There is no point in hurting anyone, in making you the focus for anger, or in dragging out the D because the W thinks that her M ended because of the OW rather than it ending because of incompatibility, unmet needs, or whatever.

 

Certainly MM has no intentions of disclosing our A to his W. Especially because of the children... it's hard enough to deal with D, and with a parent having another partner, without knowing that that other partner was 'somehow involved' with the breakup of your parents marriage. Not even adults can deal with that easily/rationally!.

 

But... as she suspects... do you think that now it would be better to disclose? What does your MM think of the situation? What is he saying in this, that it is now the best thing for the A to be open..? (not entirely clear from what you say)... if so... then he is probably right... if he can handle that, and you can.

 

It's so hard to put the genie back in the bottle... and if you two go on to have a R and marriage... then everyone will suspect/know anyway.

 

I really didn't know what was best...to tell or not tell. I took some advice where people told me to tell him, not to tell because she would going insane and maybe try to kill one or both of us.

 

But I do think she has an idea, and she seems to believe we are not. This is something I do not understand.

 

He is saying that we both said not to tell, and now I am asking if it is better to tell. He told her I am someone he cares about very much, but didn't tell her he loves me. They both say the same thing, but maybe not to someone that might want to hold on to straws.