blue16 Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 So i went out with this girl I met online today, it went pretty well and she seems really cool. We had a fun time, and she wants to meet up again early next week. I was definitely down for another meeting. Let me preface my problem by saying that she does have very lofty goals - she wants to go to one of the top universities in the province, and she hopes to become a doctor in the future. Hey sounds great right? But then the topic came up about what we're doing for summer etc. I said I am taking 1 summer course because I need to improve my GPA, as my grade in calculus is very low (i'm only barely passing unfortunately). She also said she's taking summer school, like 3-4 courses. She mentioned she has to re-do chem and math, she failed chem last term, and apparently she's doing very poorly in math, last semester she did bad in physics because she skipped a bunch of classes etc. Seems like she isn't getting very good grades at all. The two stories just don't seem to match. She says she wants to become a doctor, yet she is failing atleast two courses this semester? And you know what, if she was embarrassed and trying her best to do well I wouldn't be as upset. But instead her attitude almost seems to be like "Oh well, I'm not going to pass, I'll guess I'll have to re-do it in the summer..." It's really bothering me that she is doing so poorly in school. I've always done well in school, and altho I don't expect someone to get straight A's in school (i never did either) or anything lol, but I think it's reasonable to expect someone to atleast pass their courses. I could understand if it was one course she was doing poorly in and she needed to re-do (similar to myself), but it seems to be more than just an isolated incident. I asked her why she wasn't doing well, and she said her friends always like to go out and have fun (which is true from what I know of her already) and I also think she has trouble concentrating while studying. However, her parents are pretty strict as they aren't terribly excited with the idea of her having a boyfriend, i think they want her to focus on school. So I can't really say she comes from a 'broken home' or anything. I have offered to help her study and everything, I really want her to do well but I know theres only so much I can do. I'm upset at her non chalant attitude in addition to her doing so poorly in school. How do I approach this subject? She is fun to hang out with and i like spending time with her, but I don't know if I can move past that a casual dating phaze. In order for someone to be my gf, I have to have that respect and admiration for them, and I just don't feel that way about someone who is failing their classes. Is it rude to kind of pry into why she is doing poorly and tell her I'm concerned, without seeming like her dad or something? lol. She gets msged on the site constantly, and she made little jokes about how she was blowing all them off because she likes what we have so far. And I hinted that I stopped msging the girls I was talking to as well, because I thought things were going good between us. But after finding this new information out I'm not sure what to do anymore...
catgirl1927 Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Instead of trying to change her, why don't you just find someone you think is good enough for you?
glittergurl Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Are you for real? You sound like a robot with no heart. From the way you talk about it, it sounds like you went shopping for a girlfriend online, and now you're disappointed because she doesn't match the shopping criteria you had set to begin with. Where's the love in that?
blind_otter Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I think you should ask her, but IMO someone who presents themselves as something that they really aren't is more of a turnoff than anything else.
Walk Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 She may honestly aspire to go to a top university and be a doctor, but I think at this time in her life she is too immature to realize the amount of hard work and dedication that takes. She isn't willing to give up having a good time in order to achieve these "goals" she's stated. And doesn't seem willing to take the steps to improve the problem now, versus in the future. Which would make me question how she views other problems in her life. Does she feel problems will solve themselves? Or does she take a pro-active approach? I don't think you wrong in thinking this might not be a suitable match for you. But I think you're searching harder for an answer then you should be. Which is bordering on changing someone to be who you want them to be. I think it'd be far kinder to both of you to stop this relationship where it's at, and maybe remain friends. I don't think she has the same maturity level as you do, nor is she serious about attaining her goals. This might change in the future, but to me it didn't sound as if you were looking to wait for someone to catch up.
littlepiggy1 Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Eh, there's nothing wrong with having standards. But you have to realize that this is something you can't change. She'll eventually realize that to acheive her goals, she'll need to buckle down and work at it. Maybe spending the summer re-doing a bunch of courses will be the wakeup call she needs. Or she won't realize that and she'll eventually drop out or go onto something else... You have to decide whether you want to wait and see if she lights a fire under herself or cut your losses at this point and move on to someone more suitable.
littlepiggy1 Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Are you for real? You sound like a robot with no heart. From the way you talk about it, it sounds like you went shopping for a girlfriend online, and now you're disappointed because she doesn't match the shopping criteria you had set to begin with. Where's the love in that? I don't think having standards makes him a robot. We all have standards about what we expect in an SO (or I hope we do, anyway). He just needs to find someone that fits what he is looking for. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
RecordProducer Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 How do I approach this subject? She is fun to hang out with and i like spending time with her, but I don't know if I can move past that a casual dating phaze. In order for someone to be my gf, I have to have that respect and admiration for them, and I just don't feel that way about someone who is failing their classes. I have admiration for you for not liking girls who care about going out more than their grades! My husband has always been a great student. Being good is not good enough for him, he always has to be very good. I admire him for this. He's so modest about it that I had to find these things out from his mother. Yesterday he told me for the first time after more than a year that he passed all his flight ratings with 100. He's a hard worker, smart, and dedicated to everything he does. I believe it tells a lot about him, just like your GF's grades tell a lot about her. I don't think you can change her, but it's ok to try if you really like her. You need to respect the person she is. However i am afraid that she will end up mocking you for not having enough fun.
Toni_no12002 Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 When your young you want to have fun.Maybe she has realised that the courses she is doing dont really intereset her that much.I found that when i did hair and beauty at college.I passed level 2 but went on to do level 3 but quit after a few months because i didnt like it and realised i wasnt that inerested.Doesnt make me a failure though.People make mistakes. Fair enough if you dont like the fact thats shes not getting good grades but even if she does fail them it doesnt change who she is.Id be quite annoyed if someone got rid of me because i failed some exams.It sounds like there after your brains or something same as if someone got with me then i got a bit older they dumped me id be annoyed to. Talk to her about it.
ehead Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I can't tell you how many of my friends claimed to want to be doctors, or something equally ambitious, only to fall flat on their faces. I used to tell people my only ambition was to wait tables at a more prestigious restaurant. I ended up getting a MS in chemistry. Of course, my first job out of graduate school was waiting tables, hehe. Many young people are horrible at realistically accessing their abilities. Add to that all the pressure from family, advisors, and peers. I'm sort of like you though, I greatly admire people who are realistic.
Toni_no12002 Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Also these doctor courses are very difficult.I dont understand half of what doctors tell me!So dont be too hard on her!
SuperMonk Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I think this girl is better off without a perfectionist like yourself.
ms_jnj Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I think the question you have to ask her/yourself is: "Does this doing poorly in school in favor of partying indicate that she puts basic life responsibilities second in line to having fun?" Maybe you also need to ask her if there is a particular reason she is doing poorly this semester/quarter, or if she always gets bad grades. Some people love that -- they want to be with someone who's all about the fun. But others (perhaps you?) don't care for that for obvious reasons. I understand your point, because I feel that life is full of responsibilities, hard stuff, and things that aren't so fun...but in many cases these things have to be done. I think it shows good character when someone can balance their fun with their work. She might want to just experience being young and having a good time -- all of us probably WANT to do that. But it's a question of putting aside your wants in order to do what has to be done for a future reward. People who can do that show that they have staying power and can handle not getting what they want sometimes. And THAT is sexy.
Author blue16 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Posted April 21, 2006 I think this girl is better off without a perfectionist like yourself. Well if caring about a girls grades and her future in life makes me a pefectionist, then that's fine with me. I told her I was concerned, and she said she will promise to study harder so she won't have to take any summer courses. She sounded sincere - of course I'm not sure if she truly means it or not, but I'll have to take her word for it for now. I've also offered to help her study/tutor her as I'm a few years older than her and have already done most the courses she is taking now.
johan Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 Her future plans seem inconsistent with her present performance. I think you should be cautious about her judgment. I don't think you're being perfectionistic. But I do think you can't really start hitting her with expectations right now. I would probably ask questions to see if she is seeing things realistically. I would probably try to find out how she cares for herself in other ways. It isn't THAT hard to get passing grades. Even in hard classes.
glittergurl Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I just think it's really exagerated. How many people actually become what they said they'd be in high school? Well, welcome to reality: not a whole lot. Does that make 90% of the people losers? No. Mind you, I think it's nice that you're trying to push her in the right direction, but at the same time, I really can't see the love in your messages, which kind of makes me go
bab Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 Mind you, I think it's nice that you're trying to push her in the right direction, but at the same time, I really can't see the love in your messages, which kind of makes me go I don't think he ever said he's in love. From my understanding, this is a very new relationship and he's trying to decide if he should persue it or not. blue-- You should let her know that for someone on a pre-med track, they take LOTS of chemistry and biology. She has to take these sciences seriously if she wants to become a doctor. It's not okay to blow them off. What I see is a girl that is a bit to immature to really be looking into the future. She is enjoying the here and now, which is natural to some extent. Maybe she will mature soon, maybe she won't. It isn't your obligation to wait on her.
catgirl1927 Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I think this relationship is too new for him to be trying to change her. If it's not right this early on, I would think the problems will escalate from here. It just sounds like her priorities are in a different place than his.
SmoochieFace Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I think this relationship is too new for him to be trying to change her. He shouldn't *try to change her* at all regardless of the stage of the relationship.
littlepiggy1 Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I just think it's really exagerated. How many people actually become what they said they'd be in high school? Well, welcome to reality: not a whole lot. Does that make 90% of the people losers? No. I don't think it's a matter of her not becoming a doctor so much as her apparent lack of ambition. It sounds like he is thinking and planning his future, while she is too busy goofing off in the present. Not that there's anything wrong with either view, but they are obviously in different places right now.
RecordProducer Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I think this relationship is too new for him to be trying to change her. If it's not right this early on, I would think the problems will escalate from here. It just sounds like her priorities are in a different place than his.This is a very interesting viewpoint so I'd like to develop it in two directions. You're right that trying to change someone might appear controlling as if you're doing it for your own sake ONLY and it's definitely a turn-off for the one who "needs" to change. On the other hand, it's healthy and caring to encourage someone to stop drinking or doing pot or lose weight or start studying harder. I think the whole point is that she simply doesn't care or is not that good at school, which is a matter of affinity and ability more than priority. After all, how you steer your priorities has a lot to do with the very core of your personality. I would ignore her desire to be a doctor; I know a teenager who wants to be a doctor and she can barely pass her high-school tests (and that's with a tutor). I know people who want to be professional singers and their hearing is not good at all. Some people under-estimate themselves; some people over-estimate themselves. Some people under-estimate others and some just over-estimate others. Blue, if I were you, I would try to point out at her low grades and advise her to study much harder if she wants to have a fancy occupation. If she is lazy, she can choose courses that require you to study 3 days prior to the exams. But if she's just not that smart, she needs to work very hard. Please keep in mind that she might get very offended by your comments so keep it softly with a smile that shows concern rather than despise. "You're a smart girl, you can have good grades if you only study more; think about your future, don't just live for today" would probably sound better than "Aren't you interested in school at all? Look at your grades!" When my uncle didn't want to study at college, his father forced him to. Now he has a master's degree in architecture and is a successful businessman in his own occupation. Some people need extra incentive in order to realize where they are and where they want to be. When my 7-year old sons postpone doing their homework for hours, I tell them: "OK, I see that you're not interested in school. Well it's your choice; you can collect the trash or clean toilets or you can be successful engineers or doctors and make good money." They always say: "No, we ARE interested in school!" However if you hit a wall there, don't go any further. Some people are too stubborn, some are lazy, and some are just not that bright. After all, somebody has to pick our trash and serve us drinks in the bars.
catgirl1927 Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 While it is good to try to help someone, there's a difference between encouraging a sibling or child to do better and trying to change someone you barely know. Such a huge difference that it's a little silly I have to point it out. From what the OP said, it doesn't sound like she doesn't care at all. It sounds more like she is less driven and ambitious than he is. If someone I had been on one date with starting lecturing me about trying to be more like them because I was a big loser, I would probably invite them to mind their own business and certainly never call them again. People don't like to be lectured by self-righteous people. I don't think the OP is like that, I think he likes this girl but her priorities are not the same as his. She's hardly in the gutter. They are just different. Now, if she is in fact in some kind of trouble, then sure, he might try to help her. But if there's just a difference in their priorities that makes them very different then there's no need to insult her.
catgirl1927 Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 Upon rereading his original post, I see that she's failing a couple of courses. She's not doing well in school. However, unless the OP is a very close friend of hers, I still say it's really not his business to lecture her. He could certainly tell her that her grades are the reason he's breaking up with her, but beyond that is just preachy and self aggrandizing. He doesn't know her well enough.
Walk Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I'm still on the fence on whether he's pushing to change her, or just encouraging her. A lot depends on how he approaches the topic, his wording, and his non-verbal language. Personally, I would have loved to have someone "encourage" me to not lax off in school when I was in my early 20's. The people I hung around didn't take classes, partied all the time, no ambition, no goals... so to have someone give that nudge to get your head back on straight might have made an incredible difference in my life. I think, if he's pushing so she'll be more like him, then it's pointless. But if there's a sincere intent to see her do well in life, his underlying concern will show through, and she may find that knowing him was one of the great things to occur in her life. But it depends on his underlying intent. Important: Don't accept a promise from her to do better in school. YOU are just a friend/potential bf, and you shouldn't accept control when offered to you in this way. Stop her from "promising" anything to you that relates to her personal goals and ambitions. Shift her focus back onto herself. If she wants to promise herself she'll do better, that's good. A promise made for your benefit, or to please you, probably won't be kept. She has to make a promise like that for her benefit only. And it might be wise of you to point that out to her. Let her know the only person she'll let down is herself. External forces to motivate people don't work very well, but internal motivation will. Shift her focus back on to her goals and dreams, and why she wanted it in the first place. Not for you. I don't think it was wise of you to accept the promise, and I don't feel you have any right to hold her to it.
a4a Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 However if you hit a wall there, don't go any further. Some people are too stubborn, some are lazy, and some are just not that bright. After all, somebody has to pick our trash and serve us drinks in the bars. and some are smart and marry men that can provide the cash to buy us those drinks in those bars.
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